Patch Notes 02/10/19 - Discussion

[DvDivXXX]

Hi all,

So, new patch notes have been posted a few moments ago:

This mostly sounds like improvements (we'll no longer need to go blind with the first ticket of each stage and take a screenshot, yay!), but I'm skeptical about two points:

• Players of Level 200+ will "no longer" see common gifts in the Market, but... that's already the case for players with 21+ girls in their harem. Will this criterion change? I'm currently Level 121, and since I have more than 21 girls in my harem, I don't see any common gift already. Will I start seeing them again after the patch, and until I reach Level 200?

 

• The Final Stage vs a Sex Champion " all 12 poses are now used "... What does this mean exactly? Each of the 4 possible poses for a given class, repeated 3 times? Something else?

Please feel free to discuss, and if anyone has the answer to my above questions, that would be great.

[GeorgeMTO]

11 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

The Final Stage vs a Sex Champion " all 12 poses are now used "... What does this mean exactly? Each of the 4 possible poses for a given class, repeated 3 times? Something else?

Currently each champion only selects from the 4 poses that are available to haremettes of the class that the respective champion is. It's saying that now stage 5 can select ANY pose, instead of just from that group of 4.

[DvDivXXX]

4 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Currently each champion only selects from the 4 poses that are available to haremettes of the class that the respective champion is. It's saying that now stage 5 can select ANY pose, instead of just from that group of 4.

Interesting, thank you. So this means you might get a mix of poses from all three classes, regardless of the champ's or his girl's specialty... This could be better or worse, depending on the champion (probably better for the two who are in sync with their girl, and sometimes worse for the others, as this potentially means their girl could get a matching pose on occasion). In any case, this should reduce the number of duplicate poses overall.

How about the criterion for common gifts in the market? Any further info on that?

[Lemus]

If you look at the screenshot, you can see that it is 4 phases of the champion (that is not the last one), and used poses that do not match the class of the champion. I'm a little confused.)

[ZackMacKenzie]

Assuming that the odds of any particular pose appearing is equal and not class-weighted (not explicitly stated), the new (and old) probability for pose matching in final stage battles is/was: 

Matches.......New..................Old
0....................64.723%...........23.730%
1....................29.419%...........39.551%
2......................5.349%...........26.367%
3......................0.486%.............8.789%
4......................0.022%.............1.465%
5 matches:    0.0004%..............0.098%

For the sake of comparison and clarity, Champions that didn't match class with their girl had a 100% chance of having ZERO matches.

The overall effect of this change should be to make class-matched Champs easier to beat in their final stage, class-opposed Champs harder, and Alban virtually invincible for many players (unless his base stats are changed to compensate for this change).

YMMV

[GeorgeMTO]

13 minutes ago, Lemus said:

If you look at the screenshot, you can see that it is 4 phases of the champion (that is not the last one), and used poses that do not match the class of the champion. I'm a little confused.)

Kinkoid have a habit of using screenshots that aren't actually achievable in game. Don't treat them as fact.

Example:

5 star Lola and Kimie

 

[ZackMacKenzie]

15 minutes ago, Lemus said:

If you look at the screenshot, you can see that it is 4 phases of the champion (that is not the last one), and used poses that do not match the class of the champion. I'm a little confused.)

Yeah, that is confusing. The image was probably generated during testing, before they decided to limit the change to the final stages of each cycle.

At least it IS clear that you see the sequence before you've clicked a "Perform" button, so we can draft right away, rather than endure a (pose-)blind fight at the beginning of each stage.  (Let's hope that wasn't also changed since the screenshot was taken!)

[_shal_]

4 minutes ago, ZackMacKenzie said:

At least it IS clear that you see the sequence before you've clicked a "Perform" button

Not if the image is only a mock-up. The "don't treat this is fact" exhortation goes for that, too.

(When was the last time we had a battle combativity discount?)

[sanjkame]

1 hour ago, _shal_ said:

Not if the image is only a mock-up. The "don't treat this is fact" exhortation goes for that, too.

(When was the last time we had a battle combativity discount?)

"Don't treat them as fact" obviously don't apply to the topic that were just announced at the patch notes that you just read. Everthing that don't appear at the patch notes's TEXT you CAN treat as fake

[Observer_X]

Once again, a patch notes where the devs talk about improvement, but the only thing that has improved is the game difficulty. The "improvement" of books is practically worthless, and even damaging if @DvDivXXX first question is true. Despite the possible advantage of seeing the poses before battle (right exhortation, @_shal_), the use of all twelve poses in the last phase of a champion means also that the players that before were able to obtain 6-8 matching poses in their battle team, now will have much less matches. I am not a math expert, but I am prone to think that despite the pose match probability reduction of the champion calculated by @ZackMacKenzie, beating the last phase of all champions (and thus obtaining the girls) will become a much harder affair compared to now.

[_shal_]

7 minutes ago, sanjkame said:

"Don't treat them as fact" obviously don't apply to the topic that were just announced at the patch notes that you just read. Everthing that don't appear at the patch notes's TEXT you CAN treat as fake

I was talking specifically about being able to see the selected poses before the very first attempt at a champion stage, which is what people are expecting to see out of this patch but which isn't outright confirmed by the patch note. (And which may not be technically possible, depending on when the poses are actually generated.)

[_shal_]

7 minutes ago, Observer_X said:

the use of all twelve poses in the last phase of a champion means also that the players that before were able to obtain 6-8 matching poses in their battle team, now will have much less matches.

Could you explain how you've reached that conclusion, please?

[Antimon]

3 ore fa, ZackMacKenzie ha scritto:

Matches.......New..................Old
0....................64.723%...........23.730%
1....................29.419%...........39.551%
2......................5.349%...........26.367%
3......................0.486%.............8.789%
4......................0.022%.............1.465%
5 matches:    0.0004%..............0.098%

Based on my personal experience against Matsuda, I'd say that the both the 3 and the 4 matching poses chance of happening (specially the 4 matching poses, that I've been blessed with 5 times) are higher than these you reported. But, well, I guess that the 40 stages I struggled through are quite a little sample, statistically speaking.

1 ora fa, Observer_X ha scritto:

the use of all twelve poses in the last phase of a champion means also that the players that before were able to obtain 6-8 matching poses in their battle team, now will have much less matches. 

I don't think so. Drafts and redrafts are random, as far as I know there's no higher chance of getting girls of the champion's class.

Now we are saving 5 girls with matching positions and with the redraft we hope to get 1-3 girls more with matching positions, and all these girls belong to one class. With the new method, in the last stage of the phase we'll still have to keep 5 girls and hope to find other 1-3 girls with matching positions, but they could be of any class

[Real Vincent]

1 hour ago, _shal_ said:

Could you explain how you've reached that conclusion, please?

i also think it's wrong. actually i am quite sure getting a lot of matches will actually get easier. before the boss could easily have one pose 8 times, and for this match up is difficult even with 200 girls. them using more different poses will decrease the probability of poses repeating a lot so it should be easier to fill with the girls appearance being random

edit: yes, what antimon said. we posted at the same time..

Edited September 30, 2019 by Real Vincent

[DvDivXXX]

2 hours ago, Observer_X said:

The "improvement" of books is practically worthless, and even damaging if @DvDivXXX first question is true.

I was actually referring to gifts specifically, as they're the only item type in the market for which the criteria for rarity are currently based on the number of girls in your harem rather than your player level. Most players can typically reach the current criterion to remove common gifts from the market (21+ girls) way before even approaching level 200. So, if this criterion is simply added, then it won't change anything. But if it replaces the current one, then it will actually simply be a direct nerf for players under level 200 (and not an improvement for anyone).

For books, I don't know what the current criterion is. What I know is that I'm Level 121 and I still have common books in my market very often, but I haven't seen a single common gift in there for weeks. Common books being removed from the market is almost certainly already based on reaching a certain level, but I don't know which one. If it's above 200, then this change will be an improvement. Otherwise, it will either change nothing, or also be a nerf (for players below level 200).

[Observer_X]

8 hours ago, _shal_ said:

Could you explain how you've reached that conclusion, please?

It's not a conclusion, it's what I think will happen after the patch introduction. For sure (as I already said elsewhere) I don't have the pretense for it to be pure gold. @_shal_, you, @Antimon, @Real Vincent and any other player is in his full right to consider it wrong. As for my concern, time will say who is right.

[GeorgeMTO]

13 minutes ago, Observer_X said:

It's not a conclusion, it's what I think will happen after the patch introduction.

Could you explain why you think that will happen then? Perhaps there's a logic that they haven't considered.

[Zteev]

 

13 hours ago, Observer_X said:

... Despite the possible advantage of seeing the poses before battle ...

A.  I have no idea how you see this as only a possible advantage. It means you get to know a bit going in so you don't have to do the first fight without knowing what poses you need. You can arrange the girls you get freely to match up.

 

13 hours ago, Observer_X said:

... the use of all twelve poses in the last phase of a champion means also that the players that before were able to obtain 6-8 matching poses in their battle team, now will have much less matches. I am not a math expert, but I am prone to think that despite the pose match probability reduction of the champion calculated by @ZackMacKenzie, ...

B. The part about all 12 poses being harder for getting matches is wrong.

If you know exactly what the 5 poses you are trying to match are, the probability you are going to be able to match any of those poses depends mostly on:

1. How many girls you have that match each pose in your harem, you need 2 for each of the 5 poses.
 - This criteria doesn't change much, it's dependent on what girls you happen to have already. How it can help or hinder is if you are focusing on girls of your class to the exclusion of others, and if that class has poses come up. It's somewhat bad for players who only go after girls in one class on Champions that match their class, but great on Champions that don't match their class.

2. How many of the 5 poses repeat, which increases the number of girls with a particular pose you need.
- This is frankly, a big improvement. Assuming you can get 5 girls to match with your free repeats, getting a 6th to match is only difficult if there are 4 or 5 identical poses, which reduces your supply of girls to get on rerolls.  The probability of having 4 or 5 poses that are all the same will drop dramatically as was noted above.

 

 

 

[GeorgeMTO]

29 minutes ago, Zteev said:

A. I have no idea how you see this as only a possible advantage. It means you get to know a bit going in so you don't have to do the first fight without knowing what poses you need. You can arrange the girls you get freely to match up.

It's only 'possible' because they don't explicitly say it'll be visible from the beginning (which may mean it simply removes the need for screenshotting) so we don't know for sure it's a benefit.

[Zteev]

58 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

It's only 'possible' because they don't explicitly say it'll be visible from the beginning (which may mean it simply removes the need for screenshotting) so we don't know for sure it's a benefit.

Not having to write the poses down, memorize them, or screenshot is still an advantage, but not really one that helps you do more damage. What you mention is something I hadn't thought of, but it seems like an odd thing to do - but it could happen.

[GeorgeMTO]

Just now, Zteev said:

Not having to write the poses down, memorize them, or screenshot is still an advantage, but not really one that helps you do more damage. What you mention is something I hadn't thought of, but it seems like an odd thing to do - but it could happen.

I consider it more of a sidegrade than an upgrade. It's not bad, but it doesn't make the feature easier.

[blaa]

at this point a lot of people dont need this really anymore (even if it is an upgrade instead a sidegrade), but for new and low players it's really nice

[Observer_X]

14 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Could you explain why you think that will happen then? Perhaps there's a logic that they haven't considered.

It's not a so great logic, and as I said, I could be wrong. Simply, as I said in the past, I am not a math expert, but I think that it is harder to match 6-8 poses when the "search pool" is 1-5/12 (x5), in comparison to when the pool is 1-4/4 (x5). With the five holds in the drafting one may be able to match five poses (if the drawing luck is not against him), but for the other five girls, with an enlarged pose pool, IMHO the probabilities get lower, and there will be many players victim of indecision when, with a sixth matching pose and a bunch of drafts left, they can't decide if it would be better to retry or accept and try the challenge. Take into account also that not all players have the resources neither to keep their full harem fully leveled up, nor to always level up the chosen girls to an effective combat level for the challenge. Moreover, I am prone to think that (apart maybe the obvious whales with full harems, I never counted the girls per pose) many players probably have a different number of girls in their harems for each possible pose, and this (although maybe small) is another factor that influences the probabilities to get the desired pose when drafting.

Apart the above, there is also another reason for my thinking, but I can't state it here or I would probably risk to get banned.

[Antimon]

2 ore fa, Observer_X ha scritto:

It's not a so great logic, and as I said, I could be wrong. Simply, as I said in the past, I am not a math expert, but I think that it is harder to match 6-8 poses when the "search pool" is 1-5/12 (x5), in comparison to when the pool is 1-4/4 (x5). With the five holds in the drafting one may be able to match five poses (if the drawing luck is not against him), but for the other five girls, with an enlarged pose pool, IMHO the probabilities get lower, and there will be many players victim of indecision when, with a sixth matching pose and a bunch of drafts left, they can't decide if it would be better to retry or accept and try the challenge. Take into account also that not all players have the resources neither to keep their full harem fully leveled up, nor to always level up the chosen girls to an effective combat level for the challenge. Moreover, I am prone to think that (apart maybe the obvious whales with full harems, I never counted the girls per pose) many players probably have a different number of girls in their harems for each possible pose, and this (although maybe small) is another factor that influences the probabilities to get the desired pose when drafting.

Apart the above, there is also another reason for my thinking, but I can't state it here or I would probably risk to get banned.

Well, but now fighting against Matsuda, who request charm positions, it doesn't mean that hardcore and know how girls don't show up. In the patch note they don't say anything about changes in redraft mechanism, so I think that if you are able, as it is now, to produce a team with 6-8 girls with matching poses against every champion (that means you have a harem with good "position coverage"), change from "all positions from one class" to "all the positions" it shouldn't be a real problem. Also, as @Real Vincent and @ZackMacKenzie said, the chance of getting the same position over and over again (which is the real obstacle to the 6-8 matching positions team, both for players with huge harems and for new player) should decrease.

About the books and harem level, yes, I may agree with you: if you don't have a harem with all the girls properly levelled, using the strategy  "one champion at a time" allowed you to concentrate your resources on only the girls of the class requested by the champion you're fighting against, and with the last stage requesting random poses this isn't possible anymore.

[SissyMaker]

now on last stage we dont have any defence, so champins strike full damage, cool.....