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The Foreplay - 14-19 January


Karyia
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4 hours ago, Chthugha said:

Events don't automatically guarantee a free girl. That is a silly idea that is stuck in the minds of some players.

This "silly idea" that everybody is able to get something from what is communicated and marketed as an "event" is pretty much the standard in all of the biggest free to play games.  

 

9 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

I can get a girl I didn't have at a discount. I see only positives there. I can even choose from multiple girls. Way better to me than a normal revival.

You did realize that every single sentence started with "I" and all the complaints about this event were about the situation of new f2p players, right? 

Edited by derundann
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Since it's pretty much agreed upon that the Shard Drop rate is 1-4 for this Event the Developers should consider dropping the Combativity rate from 1 point every 30 Minutes to 1 point for every 20 minutes. Probably won't ensure getting a girl, but I'm sure more players would at least see an Uptick in the amount of shards earned per event for the duration of the event...

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29 minutes ago, derundann said:

This "silly idea" that everybody is able to get something from what is communicated and marketed as an "event" is pretty much the standard in all of the biggest free to play games.  

 

You did realize that every single sentence started with "I" and all the complaints about this event were about the situation of new f2p players, right? 

And in not a single game you get everything for free. The companies behind the games need to make money. In fact, in most big games you won't get as much of the premium currency for free as in this one. So either you straight up buy the stuff in those games, or you have to make do with the basic useless shit everybody gets. It would be similar to getting an avatar in this game as reward for the event. In this game you can plan your premium currency usage. You get a lot and with thoughtful spending you are not going to be weaker than a paying player. It is not like you will be better off in the parts of the game where you can win kobans, when you pay, which makes f2p a rather meaningless term in this game.

Revival events are already catered to new players with high maximum shard drops so easy access to the villain girls. You have to realize that in a month with 4 events, they won't do that in every single event. And especially not with girls that are pachinko only girls during relatively recent events in the mix as well. It's high expectations based on common greediness (I want something for free in every event) that trigger what I call silly ideas on how to improve an event.

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1 minute ago, Chthugha said:

And in not a single game you get everything for free.

And for the like twentieth time you use a hyperbole or even a strawman. Nobody here argued,that one should get everything for free yet you keep repeating it no matter how often people tell you that nobody wants that. It´s about getting nothing for free which is the case for this event.If you don´t get extremely lucky you get about half a girl. You don´t even get an avatar afaik which is also a very bad comparison because an avatar is purely cosmetic.

 

5 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

You get a lot and with thoughtful spending you are not going to be weaker than a paying player. It is not like you will be better off in the parts of the game where you can win kobans, when you pay, which makes f2p a rather meaningless term in this game.

This is besides the point because people are criticising this particular event or this "style" of event (as I understood it) and not the general feelings around "being f2p" or the games premium currency economics.

 

7 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

Revival events are already catered to new players with high maximum shard drops so easy access to the villain girls. You have to realize that in a month with 4 events, they won't do that in every single event.

Well other seemingly experienced people have argued in this same thread that this is not or will not be the only event this month where people who don´t spent will get nothing. And you´ve gotta realize that there is nothing to this event when you don´t spend. There are no extra missions (no matter what they award) or stuff like that as far as I´m aware. For people who don´t spend (or do spendbecause they realize they fall for what veterans here pretty much called a noob trap) this event is nonexistent. And this is straight up bad design. Nowhere does it say that this event is only intended or marketed at veteran players but still you act like it´s totally logical that new players should not get anything because "don´t be so greedy". It would be enough if there were at least some items (or even an avatar) for new players. But not pretty much "get super lucky or all you get is... the chance to get something next time!". I can´t see why anyone would deem this "good" for anything but selfish reasons. It would not be hard to make a event catered at veterans at least yield something for new players.

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1 minute ago, derundann said:

It´s about getting nothing for free which is the case for this event.

I need to correct you here, because you seem to be falling into the same fallacy as another poster with whom I had plenty of arguments on that in other threads. Kobans can be purchased with real money, but you also get a fairly generous amount of them every day by simply playing the game. So "for free" =/= "without spending kobans". You can get a girl in this event if you choose to spend a couple of weeks' worth of your free kobans on her. You don't need to spend real money. Kobans are not money.

It's like you were playing HearthStone or whatever other F2P game and assuming that you're going to get something meaningful without spending your gold, dust, shards, gems, whatever other in-game currency there is. That's not how it works, and F2P or not, you need to manage your resources carefully if you want good results in any such game. HH is pretty damn fair in that regard overall.

5 hours ago, Karyia said:

You should give us/me (rookies) a discount, we're pretty much in the dark about stuff that you (veterans) know for a while.

There is truth to that, but then there are also hardcore gamers like myself who already know more about the game in a few months than some casuals who've been playing it for years. I'm still learning things regularly, and nowhere near as knowledgeable as shal, George or Chthugha, but I really feel there's a bigger gap between my current level of knowledge and most other players I interact with (including plenty who started 2+ years ago) than there is between those who know basically everything and myself.

Not every important bit of information on the game itself, let alone tips and tricks, are readily available without quite a lot of searching, reading, testing, asking, discussing, and so on and on (as I've been actively doing from the start), but if you want to learn, you definitely can. And, just like in school, there are definitely some who won't learn even if you teach them time and time again (I won't name names, but I already know quite a few), those who are fast learners, and everything in between.

I honestly don't know for sure which profile you're closer to yourself, but if you want to learn and you can remember and apply the info and advice you get, you won't remain a "rookie" for that long. First things first, you should get the very basics down, and you can do most that, including learning about the different event types and how they work (and evaluate for yourself which ones are more valuable than others in your situation), by reading the wiki, FAQ, and following a few threads. Another solution is to have a knowledgeable player give you a crash course, if you find patient and generous enough to do so. But having tried that myself with a few people saw that it went in one ear and out the other... I know it can be stressful even with the best of intentions, depending on the "student" profile. ^^

6 hours ago, Karyia said:

Both events in 2020 have been the worse I've played so far in terms of drop rate/shard rate, but that's that.

Beware of jumping to conclusions and confusing a tiny sample size with something representative. A number of players have whined about the drop rates during the Circus event, but people who don't understand how odds work will always complain when they're not getting lucky (and rarely notice when they are). The Circus event had exactly normal drop rates and drop range for its format: the 12-day new monthly event. 1 to 6 shards could drop at a time, and the average rate was around 1 drop every 10 hits or so. I finished the event a bit earlier than usual myself, with no refills. So, even if your own experience has been bad on that one, that's because you were on a bad run, which happens and is normal. The event itself was fine (apart from the terrible drawings, but that's another can of worms altogether ^^).

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I appreciate your input and advice, DvDivXXX, but I am one of those retired players who is done working.  Whether it be on a game or in a stressful corporate environment.  The last thing I want to do, at this point in my life, is return to work.  I've read/heard about those "hardcore players" that go as far as creating spreadsheets and things to find the most efficient way to play.  And THE very last thing I wish to do is work to have fun.   I'm a player that is here to kick back and relax and I suspect that many of the players you allude to when chatting about players who "do not learn" are the same as I.  Here for fun, not to work.

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4 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

There is truth to that, but then there are also hardcore gamers like myself who already know more about the game in a few months than some casuals who've been playing it for years. I'm still learning things regularly, and nowhere near as knowledgeable as shal, George or Chthugha, but I really feel there's a bigger gap between my current level of knowledge and most other players I interact with (including plenty who started 2+ years ago) than there is between those who know basically everything and myself.

Not every important bit of information on the game itself, let alone tips and tricks, are readily available without quite a lot of searching, reading, testing, asking, discussing, and so on and on (as I've been actively doing from the start), but if you want to learn, you definitely can. And, just like in school, there are definitely some who won't learn even if you teach them time and time again (I won't name names, but I already know quite a few), those who are fast learners, and everything in between.

I honestly don't know for sure which profile you're closer to yourself, but if you want to learn and you can remember and apply the info and advice you get, you won't remain a "rookie" for that long. First things first, you should get the very basics down, and you can do most that, including learning about the different event types and how they work (and evaluate for yourself which ones are more valuable than others in your situation), by reading the wiki, FAQ, and following a few threads. Another solution is to have a knowledgeable player give you a crash course, if you find patient and generous enough to do so. But having tried that myself with a few people saw that it went in one ear and out the other... I know it can be stressful even with the best of intentions, depending on the "student" profile. ^^

Beware of jumping to conclusions and confusing a tiny sample size with something representative. A number of players have whined about the drop rates during the Circus event, but people who don't understand how odds work will always complain when they're not getting lucky (and rarely notice when they are). The Circus event had exactly normal drop rates and drop range for its format: the 12-day new monthly event. 1 to 6 shards could drop at a time, and the average rate was around 1 drop every 10 hits or so. I finished the event a bit earlier than usual myself, with no refills. So, even if your own experience has been bad on that one, that's because you were on a bad run, which happens and is normal. The event itself was fine (apart from the terrible drawings, but that's another can of worms altogether ^^).

Don't get me wrong. I'm grateful that people such as the ones you mentioned (shal, George or Chthugha, and others for sure) are around and do "pitch in". It's not hard for me to see from what they say that they have a much deeper knowledge about things, not only than newcomers but also other veterans, who either don't care so much or just aren't so adept to details (or don't talk at all lol). I have no problem declaring that I've learned quite a lot from their interventions (like the current topic itself). Sometimes, they're even sort of a "field instructor", even if they aren't aware of it :)

I try (to the best of my ability) to learn about things here and there, but for all the effort you can make, some things you'll only get to know when you get through them. I'm "moderately" aware about the event types, even if I haven't played through them all. The thing about this specific one is that it was new (at least, I haven't seen it anywhere before) 😅 I sometimes have the feeling that some parts of the "search and find" you mention are risky, because they're outdated by patches and other stuff that has happened in the meantime. I can't confirm this for sure but I think I've come across things that don't add up to what I "found"/read.

In that regard (jumping to conclusions), I can't do much as I don't yet have enough "mileage" or data to work with. What I said though, was just a fact (from my own experience). The prior event wasn't so much a drop rate problem (to me) but more of a shard rate problem. I got a ton of 1x and 2x shards, which led to a longer/harder path in order to get the girls. It might've been a bad streak like you say. In my case, I had to use refills but mostly because I only arrived on Silvanus with less than half the event to go (which is no one's fault). That specific type of event is actually good for everyone, IMO. Breathing room, resource gathering, one pretty automatic girl, two more available to fight for plus the pachinko ones, to those who want/can get them. I get the idea that it might the more versatile event in terms of "for new" vs "for old" players (of course, always with the assumption that everyone has girls available to them). I guess I'll have a better idea of how things run, on average, as I go through more events 👍

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2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

It's like you were playing HearthStone or whatever other F2P game and assuming that you're going to get something meaningful without spending your gold, dust, shards, gems, whatever other in-game currency there is. That's not how it works, and F2P or not, you need to manage your resources carefully if you want good results in any such game. HH is pretty damn fair in that regard overall.

Uh did you actually play HearthStone? During some events the effort it took to get "everything" that is available through the event was minimal. Like achieveable in one rather long grind or by playing like 2 or 3 games every other day.So even the most casual players were able to get everything. Some events did nothing but gift every player free stuff and have a new game mode. Other events were "Gold (one of two currencies) gains are doubled". There never really were "events" you could spend cash on. Some cosmetics were only available through cash and you had the option to shortcut a grind (that can be done as long as you want and not during events only) to get an adventure earlier.  Hearthstone is actually the worst possible example you could give. LoL - the arguably biggest free to play game there is- would still be a bad example. You can spend real money and be able to get "all" the rewards if you grind (you can grind some event-exclusive stuff and unlimited amounts of different lootboxes and items). You can also not do that and grind a ton and still get most of the rewards. Even casual players will get loads of free stuff - just not the high end stuff.

 

2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

I need to correct you here, because you seem to be falling into the same fallacy as another poster with whom I had plenty of arguments on that in other threads. Kobans can be purchased with real money, but you also get a fairly generous amount of them every day by simply playing the game. So "for free" =/= "without spending kobans". You can get a girl in this event if you choose to spend a couple of weeks' worth of your free kobans on her. You don't need to spend real money. Kobans are not money.

Didn´t write anything about money ;) You´d still have to"spend" even if it´s your free kobans. You are spending a rather rare resource that you -as you said- accumulated over a couple of weeks. You could also spend those kobans elsewhere to get very similiar results. The event doesn´t really "add" something to the gameplay experience - it just distracts. I could 100% ignore the event and I would miss out on nothing. This is unlike basically every other event in other games. There usually is at least some free stuff. Even a damn avatar or some items would be "free stuff". It does not have to be a girl. But as it is tons of new players won´t read this thread - and they will spend their combativity for Dark Lord or Ninja Spy which nets them subpar results in money and nothing else.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Lust said:

(...) I suspect that many of the players you allude to when chatting about players who "do not learn" are the same as I.  Here for fun, not to work.

No, there are plenty of people on here who simply refuse to learn because they don't like what they're being told about how the game works, prefer to stay in their personal fantasy world of how they want it to work, and then complain ad nauseam that reality fails to match up to the fantasy. The last thing those people come across as is "fun-loving".

Edited by _shal_
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3 hours ago, Karyia said:

Don't get me wrong. I'm grateful that people such as the ones you mentioned (shal, George or Chthugha, and others for sure) are around and do "pitch in". It's not hard for me to see from what they say that they have a much deeper knowledge about things, not only than newcomers but also other veterans, who either don't care so much or just aren't so adept to details (or don't talk at all lol). I have no problem declaring that I've learned quite a lot from their interventions (like the current topic itself). Sometimes, they're even sort of a "field instructor", even if they aren't aware of it :)

I try (to the best of my ability) to learn about things here and there, but for all the effort you can make, some things you'll only get to know when you get through them. I'm "moderately" aware about the event types, even if I haven't played through them all. The thing about this specific one is that it was new (at least, I haven't seen it anywhere before) 😅 I sometimes have the feeling that some parts of the "search and find" you mention are risky, because they're outdated by patches and other stuff that has happened in the meantime. I can't confirm this for sure but I think I've come across things that don't add up to what I "found"/read.

In that regard (jumping to conclusions), I can't do much as I don't yet have enough "mileage" or data to work with. What I said though, was just a fact (from my own experience). The prior event wasn't so much a drop rate problem (to me) but more of a shard rate problem. I got a ton of 1x and 2x shards, which led to a longer/harder path in order to get the girls. It might've been a bad streak like you say. In my case, I had to use refills but mostly because I only arrived on Silvanus with less than half the event to go (which is no one's fault). That specific type of event is actually good for everyone, IMO. Breathing room, resource gathering, one pretty automatic girl, two more available to fight for plus the pachinko ones, to those who want/can get them. I get the idea that it might the more versatile event in terms of "for new" vs "for old" players (of course, always with the assumption that everyone has girls available to them). I guess I'll have a better idea of how things run, on average, as I go through more events 👍

Short summary of event types:

- Normal events; every month, starts the 1st and lasts 12 days. 6 girls in total; 1 mission girl gotten when you complete 11/12 event missions (one koban missions each day), 2 girls on villains, 3 girls in the pachinko (both epic and event pachinko). Both villain girls are als in the pachinkos, so get them first. Shard drops are between 1 and 6. Drop rate is estimated of about 10%.

- Revival events; usually the second event of the month. Lasts 5 days. 5 girls available. 2 on villains and all 5 in the pachinkos. Shard drops are between 1 and 12. Drop rate should be the same as in normal events. An event mission on every day, rewarding an equipmemt set if you complete 4/5. Legendary gifts on the other villains. Mission girls are NOT available.

- Epic days; the third event every other month. Lasts 4 days. 6 girls available on villains from the permanent epic pachinko girl pool (hence epic days). 2 of them are new. Shard drops are between 1 and 5. Drop rate should be the same as the other events.

- Legendary days; the third event every other month. Lasts 4 days. 1 legendary 5 star girl on a villain. Legendary gifts on the same villain. Shard drops are between 1 and 3. Drop rate should be the same as the other events.

- Orgy events; last event of the month. Lasts 5 days. Combination of two revivals. A LOT of girls, I think 14 in total; 6 from both revived events and 2 new ones. We have only had 2 of them so far, so not that much to go on as far as patterns as they may change it. I think there are 5 girls on villains (2 of both events and a new one), an old event pachinko girl is the new mission girl. 2 event missions every day. 8/10 missions needed for the girl. The rest is in the pachinkos. This is where my lack of attention in the last 3 months comes to haunt me. I have no idea what the shard range is 😅 I am sure shal will tell me 😂 Drop rate is the same.

- Anniversary alike events (foreplay events belong in this category); no fixed monthly or bimonthly return (so far). Various girls from different events available on villains and in pachinko and maybe even more ways. Shard drops are between 1 and 4. Drop rate is the same.

Edited by Chthugha
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56 minutes ago, derundann said:

Uh did you actually play HearthStone?

I've been playing it for many years, yeah. And obviously it doesn't translate at all the way you did, because "an event" in HS is something rare, we get maybe 4 of them a year tops, whereas HH's "events" are basically what ladder is to HS: the main game format. There's a completely different structure, and it doesn't matter.

You completely missed my point: It's definitely a lot harder and takes a lot longer to compete even a little bit in HearthStone, let alone be able to afford different decks, or even to play multiple classes, as a F2P player, not to mention actually having fun, than it is to enjoy Hentai Heroes as a F2P player.

1 hour ago, derundann said:

This is unlike basically every other event in other games (yadda yadda same strawman)

Name me a single other game in which what they call "an event" is taking place almost constantly. It's obviously ridiculous beyond belief to compare this game's "events" with other games in which an event is something exceptional. Here it's the normal state of the game. Are you outright trolling or just too focused on semantics to understand you're not making any reasonable amount of sense, here?

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13 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

This is where my lack of attention in the last 3 months comes to haunt me. I have no idea what the shard range is 😅 I am sure shal will tell me

He can repeat it, but I'll tell you first: it's 1-12, the same as a regular revivals, which plays a huge part in why Orgy Days is such a fantastic event. 😃

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12 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

 

- Orgy events; last event of the month. Lasts 5 days. Combination of two revivals. A LOT of girls, I think 14 in total; 6 from both revived events and 2 new ones. We have only had 2 of them so far, so not that much to go on as far as patterns as they may change it. I think there are 5 girls on villains (2 of both events and a new one), an old event pachinko girl is the new mission girl. 2 event missions every day. 8/10 missions needed for the girl. The rest is in the pachinkos. This is where my lack of attention in the last 3 months comes to haunt me. I have no idea what the shard range is 😅 I am sure shal will tell me 😂 Drop rate is the same.

 

Thank you so very much for the info 👍

I participated in Orgy Days 2 :) IIRC, the shard rate for that one was 1-12.

But I guess shal will be able to confirm that (or not). 😅 Edit: Or DvDivXXX 😂

Edited by Karyia
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2 hours ago, bard20 said:

1 refill = 19x10.5k and 1 shard for Lupa, shard drop rate is 1-4☹️.  

That's correct for this one.

I've adjusted Chthugha's post with that info only, below.

12 hours ago, Chthugha said:

Short summary of event types:

- Normal events: Shard drops are between 1-6.

- Revival events:  Shard drops are between 1-12. 

- Epic days: Shard drops are between 1-5.

- Legendary days: Shard drops are between 1-3. 

- Orgy events: Shard drops are between 1-12.

- Anniversary alike events (foreplay events belong in this category): Shard drops are between 1-4. 

 

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1 hour ago, fap.titans.gra said:

1 refill (217 kobans) = 3-4 shard for girl, so (5425 - 7234) kobans for girl

I'm not sure how you landed on this estimation, but it doesn't seem correct. The average drop rate is about 10%, and the drop range (which is completely random) is between 1 and 4, which averages at around 2,  so the average number of shards for 20 fights should be 4 (you're close but a little on the pessimistic side). So on average you should need 500 fights per girl. Which would be no more than 5425 kobans (on average) if you pay all your refills at the maximum possible price as you suggest, and you don't take free combativity into account (which is fair if you're estimating what it would cost to go for a second girl or more, but not for the first one).

With free combativity, assuming you benefit from the maximum and started the event with a full bar (and not counting possible extra fights from league), that's (5x48)+20=260 fights out of 500 that you don't need to spend kobans for. So the first girl should only require around 12 refills, which means 2604 kobans if we take the highest possible koban price per refill as you did. That's actually pretty good. Worse than for Epic Days (1-5) but better than for Legendary Days (1-3), expectedly (again, just for the first girl).

It can vary a good deal for each player's own tiny sample size, of course, but that's the average. No way you should arrive at 7000+ kobans in your calculations. Other factors can vary too, such as not paying 217 freaking kobans per refill (on the plus side) but also getting some sleep and not waiting until almost 5AM (if you live in the CET time zone as I do) to take your refills (on the minus side), but these shouldn't change the result as much as assuming 3.5 instead of 4 in the base formula.

Edited by DvDivXXX
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7 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

I'm not sure how you landed on this estimation, but it doesn't seem correct. The average drop rate is about 10%, and the drop range (which is completely random) is between 1 and 4, which averages at around 2,  so the average number of shards for 20 fights should be 4 (you're close but a little on the pessimistic side). So on average you should need 500 fights per girl. Which would be no more than 5425 kobans (on average) if you pay all your refills at the maximum possible price as you suggest, and you don't take free combativity into account (which is fair if you're estimating what it would cost to go for a second girl or more, but not for the first one).

With free combativity, assuming you benefit from the maximum and started the event with a full bar (and not counting possible extra fights from league), that's (5x48)+20=260 fights out of 500 that you don't need to spend kobans for. So the first girl should only require around 12 refills, which means 2604 kobans if we take the highest possible koban price per refill as you did. That's actually pretty good. Worse than for Epic Days (1-5) but better than for Legendary Days (1-3), expectedly (again, just for the first girl).

It can vary a good deal for each player's own tiny sample size, of course, but that's the average. No way you should arrive at 7000+ kobans in your calculations. Other factors can vary too, such as not paying 217 freaking kobans per refill (on the plus side) but also getting some sleep and not waiting until almost 5AM (if you live in the CET time zone as I do) to take your refills (on the minus side), but these shouldn't change the result as much as assuming 3.5 instead of 4 in the base formula.

It is in fact 2.5 on average, so 5 from a refill. (1+2+3+4)/4=2.5 or the easier method: (min+max)/2, but that still gives 2.5 😂

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1 minute ago, Chthugha said:

It is in fact 2.5 on average, so 5 from a refill. (1+2+3+4)/4=2.5 or the easier method: (min+max)/2, but that still gives 2.5 😂

Thanks. Even better! ^^

I'm good at avoiding bias and understanding odds, but not great at doing the actual maths myself. 🤭 I suspected it might be a little higher than 2, but I wasn't sure.

So with that, we arrive at only 400 fights needed per girl on average. So even for the second girl and beyond, it should still cost less than an EPx10 on average.

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7 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

It is in fact 2.5 on average, so 5 from a refill. (1+2+3+4)/4=2.5 or the easier method: (min+max)/2, but that still gives 2.5 😂

17 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

The average drop rate is about 10%, and the drop range



I don't know where you get the data from, but I tested on live server on 2 girls over 1000 trials. ( not on server test )
first girl average 3,2 shards on 1 refill
second girl average 3,8 shards on 1 refill
 

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1 minute ago, fap.titans.gra said:

I don't know where you get the data from, but I tested on live server on 2 girls over 1000 trials.

Well, the drop range (between 1 and 4) is officially confirmed for this event. And the drop rate (about 10%) has been established by countless tests from several players over a long time, and it's been proven true so far for all events, as far as I know. No offense, but your 1000 trials is a tiny sample size compared to that.

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3 minutes ago, fap.titans.gra said:



I don't know where you get the data from, but I tested on live server on 2 girls over 1000 trials. ( not on server test )
first girl average 3,2 shards on 1 refill
second girl average 3,8 shards on 1 refill
 

One person doesn't give reliable data. The range of fights needed extends to both sides around the average. You are on the higher end, which coincidentally can easily make it more expensive than 10x epic pachinko.

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32 minutes ago, fap.titans.gra said:

Where is the data from this event, from players?  I would like to see them.  I know  the drop range is between 1 and 4 it is FACT, but I don't have data about  drop rate (about 10%)??????

Have you checked the forum or wiki? Or perhaps lurked on the Discord? Also, could you be a little more aggressive in your DEMANDS for proof in response to players kindly sharing common knowledge about the game with you? 😬

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