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Do we want the level cap to be raised ever again?


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Do we want the level cap to be raised ever again?  

172 members have voted

  1. 1. What is your take on the idea that Kinkoid will raise the level cap again in the future?

    • Sure, raise it when the first people get to Level 500, the show must go on!
      22
    • It's alright, but please wait a bit so people can catch up and accumulate at Level 500 first.
      35
    • I don't know or I don't care
      10
    • No, please don't raise the level for a long time. If we have hundreds of people at 500, it's maybe worth considering.
      54
    • No, never, just stick to 500 or below. Raising it beyond 400 already was a mistake.
      51


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I voted first and then went on reading the comments below. Well I still don't change my mind about my vote, which was to raise the cap but wait till a certain amount of players reached the current maximum level. Raising level cap is nothing new for games like this and it helps keep the competition afloat. But I also agree with @Slynia that endless and aimless increment of the player cap only going to decrease a player's interest in a game. Maybe @ kinkoid increase the level cap systematically whenever 50% of the players reach the current maximum level. About that endgame content, IMO it should be club based. Whatever endgame content is currently in works, should be focused on team play over individual play. That way more people would take donating for clubs more seriously, which in turn can increase the amount of money developers make from this game. Why I think the focus of endgame content should be team play/club activities? Because so far the whole gameplay gives a player individual gaming experience even though there's a feature like clubs implemented in the game for sometime now.

PS I'm one of those players who left the game after maxing the level cap almost 3 years ago. I came back like last year around June and enjoying the content the devs added since I left. Also I don't know if I should ping kinkoid or not so I'm just playing it safe because I think this is an interesting topic and they'll want to see all the feedbacks 😄

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On 4/2/2020 at 2:41 PM, Slynia said:

Absolutely the wrong way to look at it. If they implement end-game content that you can farm instead, for rewards other than XP (as I mentioned in my previous post), it will still be the same in the sense that you gain more power just by playing, except that it will feel fresh because it's new and different. Farming XP for another ~2 years can't possibly sound more appealing? 🤔

are you sure that you have the "right way" of looking at things, perhaps if you have been playing checkers all your life and then all of a sudden it was decreed that from now on everyone

must play chess...........you would consider the adage "adapt or die" ...........well some people/players may choose a (honorable) death instead of changing

to put in context to Hentai Heroes scenario suppose you only engaged in regular coitus and then after a certain point you only could engage in anal sex ........maybe you might consider

becoming celibate:D.............or your a meat eater and then were told that you must become a vegan because it is better for you............well maybe not so much.............why do people 

follow and believe in religious traditions today when clearly believing in science is more rational.............well apply that thinking to Harem Heroes

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@casey So... your way of looking at it was instead of providing feedback you just straight up said that you would quit if they didn't raise the level cap, acting like a child who would cry if he didn't get his way where his mom wouldn't buy him that specific toy or candy while being in the supermarket. It was just a really immature reply that didn't contribute anything to the topic discussion.

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15 hours ago, Slynia said:

@casey So... your way of looking at it was instead of providing feedback you just straight up said that you would quit if they didn't raise the level cap, acting like a child who would cry if he didn't get his way where his mom wouldn't buy him that specific toy or candy while being in the supermarket. It was just a really immature reply that didn't contribute anything to the topic discussion.

OUCH!  i thought i did provide feedback in my previous post...........i'm closing in on 3 years of playing this game and about the only thing of interest to me now is League play

I have tried to set up my team to do well in pvp and league play and like the scorpion and frog crossing the river it is a lot to ask of me to change my nature.

i have 282 harmettes and find the recent depiction of the affection scenes and harem girls to collect aren't very good in my opinion

i have suggested on several occasions the game runners should make some  of the affection scenes into gifs that would be much more interesting to me

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Level-cap really does not matter to me, since after playing a few years I tend to move on and find something new to do anyway,  regardless of the game or what I have achieved. I periodically revisit a rare few just to see what might have changed or how the game has evolved.

Either way, every time (if) raised, in my opinion the work and effort to get to the new "top" should be made exponentially/extremely harder.

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  • 1 year later...

With Gogeta being at 500 now, let's revive this discussion. Would you like to see KK raising the level cap again? Under which circumstances would it be okay for you? Does it even matter?

So far the feedback was mostly against raising, because:
- The game was not initially prepared for this and it feels very arbitrary
- There is no proper endgame yet to justify a new level cap
- It has become boring because level is the most defining factor for whether you win in leagues or not
- It would balance the game in the very long term if we could forever fix the cap at 500 (taken from this thread)
- KK might even make more money from not raising the level cap (when us whales can't easily pay for everything with D3 rewards anymore)

Let's hear it, folks. Back in November Noacc assumed there are no plans on increasing the level cap further (over here), but plans can change and I hope we can help KK make an informed decision. B|

Edited by Z-Wave
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17 minutes ago, Z-Wave said:

With Gogeta being at 500 now, let's revive this discussion.

Agreed. Necroing is almost always incorrect, but in this case I support it. The discussion was in hiatus but this landmark makes it relevant again, and it's a very well-maintained thread, so there would be no point making a duplicate just so it's more recent.

I voted for the last option in the list: never. It was already a mistake long-term to raise the max level all the way to 500.

They should however think of relevant rewards to look for as you keep gaining XP after reaching the max level. No power advantage! Something not imbalanced, but still good. I'm not sure what, yet. We discussed this a little bit with Slynia and others in Chit Chat not long ago.

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they can raise the level cap indefinite, if they make other aspect of the game not depending on it, like PvP or other rewards - for winning against higher t3 villains it seems even to be a necessity. Either way, there have to be some serious changes into the fighting aspect of the game (nerf PvE or balance PvP). And it depends on how they decide to go forward, what other aspect of the game they have to rebalance (reward distribution, xp distribution, finding other motivations for player to play, etc. pp.)

So the question is more, how to balance the game in a good way rahter rhan if they should raise the cap or not (then the answer to this depends 100% on how they balance the game).

There are already some good suggestion in the forum if they plan not to raise the cap, but I can think about some good options too, if they decide to raise it, but since I am doubting somebody is really looking into them and I dont think this thread will influence any plans they may have, I am stopping right here and just hoping for the best. 😃

Edited by blaa
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I always had a target of level 400 (before they raised the cap) and said I'd finish playing when I got there. It was then raised to 500 and I'm still here at level 465. 🤷‍♂️.

I imagine it would get tedious if I could easily win D3 every week without trying  as I still enjoy beating people higher than me in D3 every  most weeks as it means I have to think about a strategy to compete. I'm also still working out a way of playing to beat blaa 😂

So while it may be in my interest to raise the level when I've caught up a bit, if I could vote (not sure why i can't), it would be to just raise it indefinitely. I'll keep plugging away and the game will keep churning on. 

In order to suggest something for the game, what about a "Champion of Champions" league, where all the D3 winners go toe to toe in a separate league for a week that will give us mere mortals a chance to get #1 spot in D3?  (I'm not sure if there are enough D3 leagues to do this though).

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Since the time I started playing, a personal objective was always to reach the max level of experience. For sure a new cap raise would be bad news, and as we have seen, probably not only for myself.

Anyway, the main problem that should be addressed is not simply if the cap should be increased or not, but how the game should be rebalanced. In the past I said more than once that I understand the need of Kinkoid to gain their dues, and also that IMHO the main difference between free and paying players should be the time they need to reach the same goals (with the precisation that obviously the definition of "reasonable amount of time" is more subjective than objective, and thus subject to discussion). IMHO, especially given that was Kinkoid initial decision to put out a so-called freemium game, maintaining the game decently playable by both free and paying players (although for certain not an easy thing to accomplish) is simply a duty derived from the respect that every player deserves.

So, for example, if the final decision is to raise again the level cap, also the experience table should be modified, as a continual increase in the experience needed for a new level in the long run (above all with the possibility of new level cap increases) gets overly frustrating, especially in a game where the overall power level of a player is so dependent from his character level and many of the rewards obtained are randomly generated (moreover, with a RNG of quite discutible quality). Given the problem of item/gifts lacking that quite a number of players up to now complained about (which is also a part of the general rebalancing problem), an alteration of the experience table for the player would obviously call directly for an analog alteration of the girls experience tables.

Conversely, if the level cap is bound to stay the same, this would call for other changes: for example, if the player continue to accumulate experience after level 500, then some sort of alternative reward should be awarded to the player at regular intervals (as I discussed in a recent post elsewhere, although that was a run at full speed). Similarly, if the experience gathering stops once level 500 is reached, then the experience sources in the game (daily missions, league battles, story) should be modified to give something else instead of the experience points.

As I said, the "level cap problem" is only one aspect of the much larger problem of the game rebalancing, although it is one of its key aspects, given the heavy dependence existing in the game between player level and relative player power. The above is just my two cents about the possible changes regarding the "experience side", but given the aforementioned dependence, other aspects of the game will call for similar rebalancing operations, first of all the leagues: here come easily to mind the thread that our mod @DvDivXXX dedicated quite a bit of time ago to that matter, as in the light of a decision to make about the level cap by the devs, that problem should also return back in the spotlight.

OK, 3:40 for me, so it's long past bedtime... hope to not have put some blunder above. See ya.

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12 hours ago, nope1 said:

no, higher levels have too much advantage in this game already. Let other people catch up

Agreed 100%.  Nope, no level cap increases!

As long as new content continues to be released... and it's been accelerating month after month... there should always be something for EVERYBODY to play for, regardless of level, P2P or F2P alike.  Also, if it takes being level 480-500 or whatever with maxed Mythic girls to beat T3 world bosses, then there's some content worth sticking around for, too.  (Just thinking- get your first shard, use dating tokens if the boss is too tough to beat regularly & move on.)

If there's no hope for new(er) players to catch up to those that have been around for years longer, there's really no reason for new players to join & stay (or certainly not for them to spend actual money on a regular basis).

I don't mind spending what money I choose to in order to make up for lost time... time = money, right?  And it's my choice whether to be a P2P or F2P player (I don't care what anyone says- you really can't "P2W" this game, which is a good thing- else it's simply another paid porn site), but there should be no reason that I should always have to pay to get the same amount of content at the same rate that others get for free simply by virtue of them being in-game longer with no other skill necessarily being involved.  Right now because I'm playing catch-up?  Sure, if I so choose.  Forever?  Nah, that ain't right.

At some point, it'd be nice to be on more of a level playing field rather than forevermore trying to race people that had a head start.  This is a game, let me compete!  As it is, I've played every day for 16 months & at the current rate it'll be another 2 years or so before I'm level 500.  Don't move the finish line... unless it's somehow easier to completely overhaul the koban economy & entire reward system, in which case nevermind.

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I'm not bothered by that veteran players have an advantage over new players as long as newer players can catch up eventually. If the game caps their advancement, what is the incentive for the veterans to stick with the game?! The amount of experience required to level up increases with each level so there is a mechanism for newer players to catch up. If the problem is that veterans move up as fast as or close to new players, then the Kinkoid should make the experience gaps much larger over level 500.

There are a few uber players in the game. They didn't become so by being the oldest players or at the highest levels. They get there by playing well consistently and diligently. Sure, the game needs some rebalancing but it shouldn't penalize some players. Beside, the highest level doesn't guarantee top spot on league. So, I see no reason to cap the level.

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2 hours ago, Methos2 said:

There are a few uber players in the game. They didn't become so SOLELY by being the oldest players or at the highest levels. They get there by ALSO playing well consistently and diligently.

Fixed that for you. This should make the crux of the issue that you seem to be unaware of more apparent, and that's what we're discussing here, so it's worth noting. If the game was anywhere near balanced in its PvP aspects, I would have made top 4 or perhaps even won a D3 by now. Conversely, quite a lot of mediocre and/or lazy players wouldn't regularly cash in top 4 or even the occasional #1 spot as they currently do almost exclusively thanks to having a much older (active) account than their competitors.

You can start a brand-new account in HearthStone today, and if you're a really good and dedicated player of that (type of) game, you absolutely can reach legend rank this very month without spending money. Beating tons and tons of bad players and/or casuals who spent thousands of dollars and/or up to 7 years of their lives into that game. There are tons of problems with HS' business model, honestly, and also balance issues; it even tends to be P2W to an extent. But you don't get an automatic and systematic power level boost over everyone else just based on your account's playing time. A pro with a basic deck can absolutely crush noobs with top-tier expensive decks.

That's absolutely not the case in HH, and it's the main reason why raising the level cap would be a terrible idea (and already was the last time they did it).

And no, nobody can ever catch up. The total number of gaps in level decreases over time, but we all get XP at the same rate. The total gap in XP even tends to increase between those already at the top of the food chain and more recent players, because they win 99% of their league games, so they get more total XP.

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1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Fixed that for you.

It didn't change what I said. Okay, whatever. You also seem to miss my points in the post. So let me try saying it in another way.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you about the game needing re-balance but more leveling doesn't make it more unbalance. As I had said, the higher levels should need more XP to advance so people can eventually catch up. If it is not doing enough now, they should absolutely fix that. Capping level isn't the answer.

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

You can start a brand-new account in HearthStone today, and if you're a really good and dedicated player of that (type of) game, you absolutely can reach legend rank this very month without spending money.

So HH is not a cut throat type of game which is perfectly fine. I wouldn't be playing if it is. Don't need that stress. I'm not playing for the bragging right of winning D3. I'm collecting girls to see pictures. I don't need to land top 4 to do that. Your beef is that you been playing a year and half can't beat someone been playing 4 years in D3. I see nothing wrong for a game that gives some seniority. I wonder. Will you change your tune when someone joined a month ago beats you in D3?

Edited by Methos2
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21 minutes ago, Methos2 said:

So HH is not a cut throat type of game which is perfectly fine. I wouldn't be playing if it is. Don't need that stress. I'm not playing for the bragging right of winning D3. I'm collecting girls to see pictures. I don't need to land top 4 to do that. Your beef is that you been playing a year and half can't beat someone been playing 4 years in D3. I see nothing wrong for a game that gives some seniority. I wonder. Will you change your tune when someone joined a month ago beats you in D3?

It's my tune and I'm near the top of the food chain. I don't remember when was the last time I didn't get a top 4, even in leagues I haven't played at full strength due to time constraints. I don't want seniority, I want my wins to be based on my skill and my loses to be based on my opponents skill.

All games need some seniority so that you need to build some assets, but one thing is 3 or 6 months and another is infinity.

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I'd forgotten what I wrote in this thread, but after reading through all comments again I'll just go ahead and take credit for the introduction of club champions.
You're welcome.

Anyway, on topic of seniority, we already discussed this some days ago in the Chit Chat thread that us veterans and everyone who follows into the level 500 threshold, all desperately need new content in some form. Be what it will be, but I personally won't have fun farming XP for another 2 years if they do in the end raise the level cap (like I stated previously in this thread over a year ago), and I also won't have fun if I can't farm anything new after reaching level 500. We need something to keep us coming back is what I'm getting at.

I think the main concern people seem to have is the imbalance in the PvP aspect of the game.
I'd say, do we veterans deserve some kind of privilege or advantage? Yes, we have been loyal for the longest (just like you advance in companies for being in it longer).
But, does the advantage need to come in the form of PvP? Absolutely not.

Something to do if veterans will always end up having PvP advantage from endless power upgrades of any form (like levels), is to smudge out the rewards in the leagues, I still to this day don't understand why 1st place is worth almost 3 times that of 2nd. I do agree with Methos2 in his statement that lower leveled players slowly do catch up as the XP per level increases, and if the cap is raised, this will be more obvious in a year from now (I hope that won't happen tho). However, the main issue will never be truly solved like this.

However, if the leveling stops at level 500, then think about taking a look at my ideas on the first page (which I briefly talked about in the Chit Chat thread), if we get any of those ideas implemented the power creep will keep going, BUT, we could introduce divisions in the league (like Noacc mentioned on the first page) where 500 leveled players are sorted into brackets in a specific division depending on their previous league performances (again like Noacc said, something like League of Legends ranking system). A ranking system is impossible to balance with levels, but with upgrades it's possible as long as the upgrades are limited to a cap. Veterans or whales can reach those caps faster, giving them an advantage at the start of each patch, where new or more upgrades will come in chunks instead of everything at once with the form of patches or expansions (think like World of Warcraft, new gear is released every now and then). This gives players a reason to still spend money if they so wish, which is in the interest of a company. 

I am just letting my imagination going wild here as you might realize at this point, so I'll just stop before I say anything too stupid.
Like usual tho, some ideas might work on paper but not in practice, which I'm more than aware of, so I would hope for a long term testing on the test server of any new mechanics that needs any form of balancing.

Whichever route kinkoid decides to go, will have consequences for better or worse anyway. Not everyone will be happy no matter what they'll do.
After all, I know of one particular level 500 player who wants the level to keep on going like usual, which is the unpopular opinion of the two.

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4 hours ago, Methos2 said:

It didn't change what I said. Okay, whatever. You also seem to miss my points in the post. So let me try saying it in another way.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with you about the game needing re-balance but more leveling doesn't make it more unbalance. As I had said, the higher levels should need more XP to advance so people can eventually catch up. If it is not doing enough now, they should absolutely fix that. Capping level isn't the answer.

So HH is not a cut throat type of game which is perfectly fine. I wouldn't be playing if it is. Don't need that stress. I'm not playing for the bragging right of winning D3. I'm collecting girls to see pictures. I don't need to land top 4 to do that. Your beef is that you been playing a year and half can't beat someone been playing 4 years in D3. I see nothing wrong for a game that gives some seniority. I wonder. Will you change your tune when someone joined a month ago beats you in D3?

I can guarantee that someone who joined a month ago is not going to beat a top player in D3.  Why? Because you can't buy experience and you get your power in this game by level which only comes by time.  Not only leveling up but, also with the equipment you can use.  You can get a slight advantage by having a large harem that are all maxed but, as a person who started a month ago I can guarantee the top level players will have as many girls as you do.  "even if you buy them"

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5 hours ago, Methos2 said:

It didn't change what I said. Okay, whatever. You also seem to miss my points in the post. So let me try saying it in another way.

Okay, I'll do the same, but honestly we seem to struggle understanding each other. At least we're both trying.

5 hours ago, Methos2 said:

the higher levels should need more XP to advance so people can eventually catch up. If it is not doing enough now, they should absolutely fix that. Capping level isn't the answer.

That's already in place, and it doesn't allow any real catch up. It takes a matter of days to get from level 1 to level 200 or so. Then a solid year for the next 150 levels or so. And then easily two more years to go from 350-ish to get somewhat near level 500. There is no way to accelerate your XP gains (not anymore, there used to be super duper expensive, tedious hacks allowing that with the old leaderboard and arena systems, which is a big part of why Gogeta is level 500 already whereas most active players who started at the same time as him are still at least 6 months away from reaching it). The XP gaps increasing exponentially with each level past a certain point doesn't help anyone catch up, it only makes the mid-game frustrating as hell for motivated players, and the end-game a slow drag for everyone except those with veteran advantage. In PvP, at least.

Capping the max level is not the only possible answer, but it's the only one that kind of works with the XP and PvP systems as they currently exist in this game (albeit in the long, long run). So I'd much rather keep that, unless Kinkoid makes a complete rework of PvP balance, design, and reward distribution. Including an actual ability to catch up (and by this I mean an actual mechanic to level up faster than less active or efficient players, not crossing our fingers that veterans eventually quit and we might replace them years from now).

9 hours ago, Methos2 said:

If the game caps their advancement, what is the incentive for the veterans to stick with the game?!

Well.... To me you answered this yourself here:

5 hours ago, Methos2 said:

I'm not playing for the bragging right of winning D3. I'm collecting girls to see pictures.

 

I'd also like to clarify that "cut-throat" isn't a synonym for "competitive with the same power level for everyone by default". That's your very own, weird take (I get that you're more on the casual or solo side of things, and that's absolutely okay). What I actually described is merely a properly balanced PvP system, nothing more, nothing less. HH wasn't originally meant to have PvP, and Kinkoid has yet to figure out what PvP needs to be a fair, enjoyable and rewarding experience for most players. It's absolutely not their strong suit as game designers. The main problem is that PvP not only exists in this originally solo collection game (and multiplayer coop as well now, with the CC feature), PvP is by far the biggest and most consistent source of resources in the game. So top PvP results are actually the best, cheapest, and most consistent way to complete and improve your solo collection experience. Which is already pretty weird and even ironic in and of itself. Factor in the fact that PvP is utterly imbalanced and that the older active accounts automatically dominate by default, and it's extremely frustrating except for the lucky few who happen to have been around for the koban-printing machine distribution 3 years ago. And even then, as shown by @Kenrae's reaction to your comment earlier on, some of them would actually prefer to compete instead of cashing in their unfair advantage.

5 hours ago, Methos2 said:

Your beef is that you been playing a year and half can't beat someone been playing 4 years in D3. I see nothing wrong for a game that gives some seniority. I wonder. Will you change your tune when someone joined a month ago beats you in D3?

This couldn't be further from the truth. I actually started pointing out the PvP imbalance and trying to make it change ages before I was anywhere near even competing in D3 at all. And I'm just as opposed to my ability to easily beat players who started a year after I did, regardless of how well they play, as I am opposed to my inability to beat players who started 2-3 years before I did regardless of how well I play.

Last but not least (this kind of summarize everything above actually):

9 hours ago, Methos2 said:

Sure, the game needs some rebalancing but it shouldn't penalize some players.

Well, balancing the game properly would only "penalize" a very small minority of players, and only insofar as we can call taking away (or at least drastically reducing) a massive unfair advantage as "penalizing". In sharp contrast, the current system penalizes everyone else, every single week. For more details, I'd like to suggest reading my massive commentary and call to action from almost a year ago on this very topic.

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I will try a different approach to the level cap, trying to see from Kinkoid point of view:

If there is a level cap at 500, will players a) stop spending money, or b) leave the game when they reach that level because they feel they have finally reached endgame?

If the answer Kinkoid find for a) is yes, then the level cap will be raised. 

If the answer for b) is yes, and that include part of the whales, thus also implying a) then the level cap will be raised.

There are other incentives to try to retain players and made them spend money? I think that there are two main reasons to stay in the game: the always growing new worlds with new adventures, and getting all the girls. This second incentive is the only one that can make the players keep spending real money even after reaching the level cap, so perhaps that is the reason for the flooding of new girls in the last year.

 

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2 hours ago, jelom said:

If there is a level cap at 500, will players a) stop spending money, or b) leave the game when they reach that level because they feel they have finally reached endgame?

Thanks for that angle. I tried to convince KK with the money argument as well, because I think the opposite is true.

a) Us whales rather stopped paying money when the leagues were able to pay for everything. It's definitely true for me, but I can also imagine paying again when I'm not able to score #1 most of the time... Also if players know that 500 is a definite cap and if KK decides to implement exp gains for Kobans again, many people surely will spend more money to get to 500 to be competitive (and then some to keep getting all the girls).

b) I would likely leave the game if the cap is raised again without a good endgame system in place. Just chasing larger numbers and winning 9 out of 10 D3s isn't really fulfilling. I guess many others will lose hope and stop if KK makes a lazy cap raise again. Having a hard competition at 500 however will keep me entertained for some time (hopefully until KK adds a good endgame or features like club wars etc.).

Surely nobody but KK knows the most likely outcome, but I wonder if raising the cap to 500 helped them. I would doubt it though, since many whales left back then...

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13 hours ago, Kenrae said:

My incentive to stick with the game isn't leveling up another 100 levels, that's boring as hell.

I am not saying that raising the cap just for people to chase higher level. I wouldn't be satisfied chasing some arbitrary number either. I agree with you and @Slynia that there should be new contents to keep veterans interested but that has nothing to do with capping the level. KK can raise the cap and introduce new contents.

6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Capping the max level is not the only possible answer, but it's the only one that kind of works with the XP and PvP systems as they currently exist in this game (albeit in the long, long run). So I'd much rather keep that, unless Kinkoid makes a complete rework of PvP balance, design, and reward distribution.

We are saying the same thing about PvP. It terribly needs some balancing. But I see fixing PvP and fixing leveling as two different things. Veterans with high levels isn't the problem with League, the design mechanic is. And having a high level doesn't just help PvP. It helps with other aspects of the game too, like Champions. That's why I'm ok with raising the cap. To me, capping at 500 is like breaking a part of the game to put a bandage on another broken part. Let fix the issue at the source.

6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

HH wasn't originally meant to have PvP

I have a hunch here. No one was thinking of League when they joined the game. 😜

6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

PvP is by far the biggest and most consistent source of resources in the game.

Correct but we don't need the resources from the top spots to enjoy the game. The 1296 kobans/week I earned from D3 allows me to take part in every aspect of the game. Winning 14.4k week after week actually doesn't sound enticing to me. With that much income, it wouldn't take long to get all of the girls. It's not like they release a MG every week. What do you do with the game then? I get the sense that is how @Slynia and @Z-Wave feel. Sure, some like the competitiveness but that's gonna get old eventually.

To sum up, I'm for raising level cap because veterans deserves the advantage. Players near 500 didn't get there just by being the longest players. They have been grinding a lot longer to get there. League needs to be re-balanced or a new form of PvP is needed.

The biggest imbalance I see isn't level. It is the end time. By being available to play during end time gives the players the biggest advantage. But that's a whole different discussion thread.

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5 hours ago, Methos2 said:

The biggest imbalance I see isn't level. It is the end time. By being available to play during end time gives the players the biggest advantage. But that's a whole different discussion thread.

If you're still referring to the leagues, I couldn't disagree more, especially now that there are partial stat refreshes during the usual 6-hour snapshots. You perform well in league by being available as often as possible throughout the week, to take every opportunity for extra points. League rankings are almost never determined on the last day, let alone the final snapshot. That's how contests are won, though, but it's something else entirely (and it's largely balanced except when you reach level 401, then you are permanently screwed, as I currently am).
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Apart from that, we seem to agree on most important points. The huge difference is where we draw the line. You seem to feel that raising the max level should take priority over fixing the broken PvP system, possibly because you still have faith on Kinkoid actually reworking the leagues in the near future. I'm a lot less optimistic on that. The leagues have been imbalanced from day one and it's been a growing issue for years (with a significant part of the community complaining about it for years). They have yet to make ANY change to fix the imbalance. In sharp contrast, they have raised the max level cap several times in the past, and they very well might give in to Gogeta & a few other whales' pressure now that they're at the new max level and raise it again, without any PvP balance to make up for it. So the way I see it, if we don't succeed in pressuring them into actually fixing PvP imbalance NOW, before they raise the cap again, then we likely never will.

I foresaw that a year ago, btw (in the long thread I linked to earlier):  

On 6/20/2020 at 11:32 AM, DvDivXXX said:

If you take this path, then at some point, a bunch of frustrated Level 500 players will begin to nag you about how much they miss the good old days where they could just crush noobs however they pleased, and "compete" with other high-level players for even bigger rewards when they felt like a little bit of challenge for a change. They will ask you to give them a Level 600 cap to shoot for, so that they can buy their way into it ASAP and start crushing (Level 500) "noobs" again. You will absolutely NEED to give them a very firm and definitive NO for an answer. Otherwise, the whole system will collapse, and by the time it stabilizes again, the same bunch of then Level 600 players will whine and push for a Level 700 cap. This never ends, and this kind of very slow-burn, self-regulating balance doesn't work well against regular meteor showers like that. So you need to really, REALLY consider this before taking that path.

And here we are. That post has garnered a lot of attention and a lot of brainstorming followed, but a year later nothing has changed balance wise. And yet we're at risk of the level cap getting raised again, despite it being the ONLY thing that can give anyone who didn't start in 2018 or earlier any hope to actually catch up eventually. So even if I don't disagree with your ideas overall, I don't share your assumption that raising the level cap again won't be a big deal, and that they might get around to fixing the broken PvP system now when they've never given any signs that they would.

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