legendary contests with winning a girl - is bad

[windia]

In PoA#1 there was initially the intermediate goal to collect a 10th+ place in a daily contest. 

I found it bad back then because obtaining a girl relied upon malperformance of other players.

Now it is back on test server with so called "legendary contests" - first 4 places get 100 shards for a girl, 5-10 will get 50 shards:  - I have 85 shards of her in the moment of contest.

If you have her already, you get Mythic Pachino orbs instead: 

Beside the fact that there is a new scheme "place 5-10" instead of "5-11", it is again a way o let player fight over getting a girl.

And those who encounter this contest first time while having the girl already will not even know the others there might run for a girl while you only see the orbs.

And new players....

It is you game, do whatever you like. I'm just expressing my player's opinion - and I don't like these attempts.

 

For me the game was "wanna attract a girl? Do something - and don't care what others do, because they cannot stop you."

Contests have been about indirect chances to get a girl.

yes - you can claim that giving orbs as league reward was the first step. Just orbs.... are quite indirect and rely on RNG. 

(k, not the 10x for winning D3)

[John 1039]

If this version gets accepted, I think this would make it the strongest move towards a pay-to-win feature yet.

However, I suppose it wouldn't be too bad, if in parallel there are other normal methods of obtaining the drop too and the contests are just an additional way.

[Bomba]

What the hell?! If what you're saying is correct, then that's the worst idea they ever had. The whole point of this game is that you don't need to compete with other players to get a girl.

But if that was just a test of the system and idea, then it could have some uses. Like if you have 10 shards for 1-4 places and 5 shards for 5-10 places, then it would make sense. You could use those shards to finish the girls you didn't get in the past. So basically, a competitive alternative to the Mystic Pachinko. But that doesn't sound quite like what they are going for here.

[_shal_]

Why would you want it to offer 10 shards to win instead of 100 if it's an old girl? Also, nothing has been said one way or the other if this new game mode is intended to introduce new girls.

[Bomba]

2 minutes ago, _shal_ said:

Why would you want it to offer 10 shards to win instead of 100 if it's an old girl? Also, nothing has been said one way or the other if this new game mode is intended to introduce new girls.

Because only 8% of the participants will get those 100 shards. It's a direct competition between players. The reward should be smaller and not that impactful in my opinion. I would like to have 100 shards, but not at the price of all other players loosing it.

There's not a lot of information about this contest, so maybe I'm not aware of some important details. Like, maybe the winners will be excluded from the this pool and on the next occasion of such event only those who didn't win those 100 shards will participate in the same pool.

[_shal_]

You're making your contest opponents "lose" something either way, it's completely irrelevant whether it amounts to 1.0 or 0.1 girls. If you don't want to deal with the heavy burden of other players possibly being mad at you, I'm afraid you'll have to skip these contests altogether, because some losing people will be mad no matter what the prize is.

(Leaving aside that it's not just people who will have missed out the girl on offer, but also others who already had her and wanted the alternative MyP orbs prize to go after other girls.)

Edited June 14, 2020 by _shal_

[Bomba]

14 minutes ago, _shal_ said:

You're making your contest opponents "lose" something either way, it's completely irrelevant whether it amounts to 1.0 or 0.1 girls. If you don't want to deal with the heavy burden of other players possibly being mad at you, I'm afraid you'll have to skip these contests altogether, because some losing people will be mad no matter what the prize is.

(Leaving aside that it's not just people who will have missed out the girl on offer, but also others who already had her and wanted the alternative MyP orbs prize to go after other girls.)

The other way around. It's hard to win in contests. So when I will not win in such contest I will be mad, but not at the players who won. I will be mad at developers, who thought that such contest would be a good idea. As I said, this game appeals to me with the fact that I can win every girl without directly competing with other players for that girl. That's why I proposed a smaller reward.

[_shal_]

Being perfectly honest, I'm not sure how much being "mad at developers" really counts for when it comes from people who have that as their default attitude.

Nothing will be taken away from anybody if only previously available girls will be on offer, that's simply a fact.

I find it interesting that you don't seem to have any such moral qualms about the leagues, where placing well means that large amounts of kobans are not getting won by other players. Those kobans are nothing more than future girls, either. But that seems to be the thrust of your argument, really - as long as it's not too obvious that other players are affected by your play, it's somehow okay. 

Edited June 14, 2020 by _shal_

[Bomba]

45 minutes ago, _shal_ said:

Being perfectly honest, I'm not sure how much being "mad at developers" really counts for when it comes from people who have that as their default attitude.

Ok, sure. You and few others demonstrated that you formed a particular opinion about me and it's not a good one. Fair enough. I was pretty vocal about some topics, which I deemed worth bringing attention to and thought it was a bad addition to the game. So I can see why that opinion was formed, but I'm not "mad at developers" per se. You introduced that word "mad" and I tried to show you what my point is with it. Unsuccessfully. But I will try again, if you don't mind. I like this game, I wouldn't spend that much time in it if I didn't. And developers implemented a lot of cool stuff that I liked - shards, champions, orbs, a lot of cool themes and a lot of beautiful girls. But recently, the execution of their ideas was subpar in my opinion. All I'm trying to do is make this game better. And if I'm doing that in the wrong way. Well then, please point me in the right direction.

1 hour ago, _shal_ said:

Nothing will be taken away from anybody if only previously available girls will be on offer, that's simply a fact.

Sorry that you had to repeat it for me. I didn't address it directly, so I will rephrase my statement. "There's not a lot of information about this contest, so maybe I'm not aware of some important details." And information about girls is one of those important details. If this will be done only for the previously available girl, then yes, it changes the situation dramatically and what I said is pretty much irrelevant. But I didn't see any indication that that was the intent from this thread so far. As far as I know they always use old girls for tests and then implement the new feature with new or even unique girls as the reward. If that's not the case here, then I concede my point.

1 hour ago, _shal_ said:

I find it interesting that you don't seem to have any such moral qualms about the leagues, where placing well means that large amounts of kobans are not getting won by other players. Those kobans are nothing more than future girls, either. But that seems to be the thrust of your argument, really - as long as it's not too obvious that other players are affected by your play, it's somehow okay. 

1) League is permanent. So if you didn't win the top position you can try again next week.
2) The winners in lower League are removed from that League and placed in higher League. Which removes the strongest and gives chance to weaker players to get those rewards.
3) Kobans are not the unique girls. Kobans is a resource available to everyone which could be used for a variety different things, like pachinko, boosters, combativity, etc. Now, imagine that 8 first places get a unique girl in each League. And if player already has that girl then he receives a proper amount of Mystic Pachinko orbs. Suddenly the League looks completely different and some of the players will probably never get even one of those girls.
4) I did not make any moral qualms about this contest. I'm pointing out the same thing that was a problem for the Path of Attraction when it was introduced and what didn't make it past testing. That the reward-girl could not be possibly obtained by the majority of players by definition of this contest.

Okay, I'm pretty sure we're speaking about different things, so to clarify. Are you a strong player who wants to have unique girls, which are unobtainable to others? As it seems to me right now. Or are you talking about this with a confidence that the reward-girl will definitely be the one, that was previously obtainable? Which is not obvious to others and never been mentioned as the idea behind this contest. _shal_ , you are pretty knowledgeable about this game, so if you know something about this what we don't, then could you please share it? If this is another version of Mystic Pachinko and only previous girls will be there, then that's a completely different topic.

[Xemnas]

This was actually my greatest fear, win a girl with contests. I mean to me is ok to compete and use my kobans to do it but as a free player there always will be a limit to what i can useand do, my point is: i go, plan and ok i can do it; i use my kobans then at the last second there will be a bored billionaire player that has some real cash to use and i get lost becouse he has no limits, in the end i lose kobans and don't get a girl. Honestly this is too much pay to win to me, i was ok with the path of actraction becouse with some planning anyone can do it but with this is not anymore the ability of a player that matter but is the depth of the wallet the key to succed. I get that the studio has to pay his bills but this is simply not right to the ones that cannot afford it (and yes if i could i would cover em in gold). So to me is simply not fair and this is actually the first time that i don't like a new thing (playing since 2017). But maybe i got it wrong i don't have a test server so: is this gonna be like a 4-5 days event? if so my thought is up here . If instead this is a permanent replace for every daily contest with win a girl every day (thing that i really doubt) than might be ok but still i'm not fully convinced and still i think is not really fair to players.

[Karyia]

IMO, it's too early to say.

We don't know how/if/when this is going to get implemented (yet).

On the test server, this is a "bonus" (and special, since it possibly grants a girl) contest, running along the regular one.

So at first glance, it's actually giving people a(n additional) chance to directly get a girl.

But we don't know if it's a one day thing, if it's everyday during a certain event or how it is, so it's hard to comment much without further info.

I would assume that this contest would be running during legendary days (because of the designation), so if it really is an additional way to get a girl with some effort, well... it's a good starting point, at the very least.

I would hope that they share more about it before implementing anything though... that would avoid possible complaints and so on, while also allowing feedback on possible ways of tweaking it into something even better.

[jelom]

7 hours ago, Bomba said:

I would like to have 100 shards, but not at the price of all other players loosing it.

A different mental approach: No player will lose any shard or girl he had at the start, so the reward you win is not deducted from another player.

[windia]

@John 1039 

@Bomba

@Karyia

@Xemnas

@_shal_

@jelom

It is gone live:

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by windia

[Xemnas]

Thank you @windia for tagging me. I've read the rules and yes i think is too much pay to win and too limited, i personally hope that is not gonna be on regular servers. I mean if someone really want an exclusive girl (i checked) become a patreon and he\she can have one every month (the kobans that u are gonna use are at that level probably). What i'm saying is with this contest free player are screwed: i can't even decide to try for it becouse i could lose litterally all my investment and not get a girl becouse some random pay player can go over me at the last second and what would i have in the end ? huge amount of kobans wasted, no girl, and many girls losses in the following month due to the wasted kobans. The only point in favor is that they putted the girl for the first 4 position but still is a way to say: "ok go ahead devour yourselfes in a koban battle we win anyway". This might actually be the very first time that i'm really against to an idea of the studio (player since 2017).

[windia]

1 minute ago, Xemnas said:

Thank you @windia for tagging me. I've read the rules and yes i think is too much pay to win and too limited, i personally hope that is not gonna be on regular servers. I mean if someone really want an exclusive girl (i checked) become a patreon and he\she can have one every month (the kobans that u are gonna use are at that level probably). What i'm saying is with this contest free player are screwed: i can't even decide to try for it becouse i could lose litterally all my investment and not get a girl becouse some random pay player can go over me at the last second and what would i have in the end ? huge amount of kobans wasted, no girl, and many girls losses in the following month due to the wasted kobans. The only point in favor is that they putted the girl for the first 4 position but still is a way to say: "ok go ahead devour yourselfes in a koban battle we win anyway". This might actually be the very first time that i'm really against to an idea of the studio (player since 2017).

your are welcome. 
I can only encourage you to copy your opinion into the "official" discussion thread on main forum.

I totally agree with you  - a contest is open end regarding the investment.

[Observer_X]

Frankly, seeing as the introduction of events like this one can have the only effect of making free players flee the game, these are the moments when the question come back to my mind: "Why the hell the devs don't finally stop insulting the intelligence of players and resolve to officially declare HH a pay to play game?". Until they will change their behaviour (and I believe all of us here know all too well that they won't) the final result will be the same, but with an added long streak of bad advertising around the net. How they can't understand how powerfully they are shooting themselves in the foot, is beyond me.

[natstar]

If every contest offered a unique girl for that contest and it was not limited time then the spenders would get theirs first just like they do with the current events but then they would stop trying to win those events if they already had it so fewer people trying to win them.

It would be better to offer shards for the girl under rank 10 and to repeat the contest so you can slowly get the shards up every time the contest repeats contests are boring right now a nice change that was not limited time only would work.
 

Edited June 16, 2020 by natstar