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​📜​Patch Notes Hentai Heroes 2023 ​📜​


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10 hours ago, Kenrae said:

Next week best team on HH has 3 eccentric girls, so you want to use that on offense (usually) but should switch Sai for Misvaginus on defense.
 

image.thumb.png.95ee8c609744ca6889056f6ab1a6c42a.png

 

Am I being dim and missing something? Would you not be better switching out Stacy for Misvaginus given that Sai has slightly better stats?

 

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1 minute ago, JustVisiting said:

image.thumb.png.95ee8c609744ca6889056f6ab1a6c42a.png

Am I being dim and missing something? Would you not be better switching out Stacy for Misvaginus given that Sai has slightly better stats?

No, you're right. Don't post messages before going to bed, boys xD

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Hypothetical here, as I can't make any of this combination of team, but what would the best teams be this week on Nutaku?:

image.thumb.png.2a584a8a223d78515b6626646e99ea4a.png

 

My guess would be Rina, (Princess Noemy, Alexa, Radka), (Kalissa, Golden Lupa, High Mage Arcana) for offense and Rina, Princess Noemy, Kalissa, Zoe, Matcha, and any two other Mythics.

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It does also seem worth noting that while the reward 5-star Legendaries are technically in the pool now, no-one currently has them. So for instance, this week on HH:

image.thumb.png.b8ecccb3d7108166a9d92b02507780bb.png

Until a decent number of players are past level 500 on the Pantheon, the best possible offensive team above isn't technically achievable as no-one actually has Taurus.

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1 hour ago, Kenrae said:

No, you're right. Don't post messages before going to bed, boys xD

I figured that it was too early in the morning and my head wasn't working right!

Edited by DvDivXXX
Mod edit: double post content added
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1 hour ago, JustVisiting said:

what would the best teams

The best Rainbow team is the one with the 7 girls shown at the top in the usual tab. Rainbow vs Rainbow is basically playing as in the previous patch, so that's the default reference point. It's also by far the best team "for defense" (as in "to make things harder for your opponents") because it has the highest stats and it's the only mix preventing your opponents from quickly going "oh, you went all blue, huh? let me switch to my yellow team for you" or "yellow team? nice! get a taste of my orange team, fool!" and so on.

The rest is more or less a game of R-P-S but with 8 items subdivided into one pool of 3 and another pool of 5, and where you can choose to play Rock-Scissors as a combo, or Paper-Blue, or Yellow-Green, or "No RPS for me, thanks". Oh, and you get to see that your opponent went Paper-Blue before making your move, so if Scissors-Yellow is a viable option against them, you can safely go for it for that one match.

There are no "best teams". There's Rainbow, and then there's "oh that guy went for Elements X & Y, let's punish him with Elements A & B". Edit: And it highly depends on how powerful your account is compared to each opponent, which now includes how many girls (up to 100) of each Element you have in your harem. AND obviously, even if someone went all Blue and going all Yellow would be the "hard counter" on.. paper, if the best three Blessed Girls you have on hand for Yellow are 3-star commons, then you're better off sticking to Rainbow even if that doesn't "counter" them.

At least to the best of my current knowledge, understanding, and very limited exposure to and experience with this new patch.

PS: Please check my private message on your forum profile about multiple posts in a row.

Edited by DvDivXXX
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Dear KK, thanks a lot for BDSMN update and the Leagues RNG fest. If your idea to prevent "player boredom" is by making everything expensive and random af, then you are doing great job, keep it up! Getting 10/24/16 points from opponent in Leagues is definitely more exciting than plain old boring 21/20/22.

Also, I probably forgot to thank you for nerfing Epic Orbs to extinction and removing DTs, so thanks for that as well. Thrill of the chase over 9000.

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12 hours ago, La Kajira said:

Unless I'm missing something important, chances are very soon almost everyone will be sitting on a balanced team and so there will be very few opportunities (or reasons) to toy with elements for anyone. Give it a couple weeks. That will be one hell of a middle finger to the new system as a whole.

My first thoughts went into the same direction and I've already feared I'm just a little bit dim. Okay, that's still possible. But good to know that I'm not the only one who can't picture himself using anything else than a balanced team most of the time. As much as I like the elements idea**.

Btw - the battle results are completely bananas. Losing one fight with less than 10 points and winning another one with over 20 against the same opponent happens quite regularly now. It has a strange appeal and I like those knee-slappers somewhat. But I'm not sure if this all works as planned. ;)

The one positive thing about the battles after the update: the RNG isn't favoring the defender anymore... I think. Hard to say with this bonkers crit-festival. I mean, I still get my 0:3/0:4 critical hits per fight against opponents with <20k harmony. But I also had my fair share of improbable victories against stronger opponents. Or even 25 point victories against someone who wasn't much weaker than me.

I guess there will be some tweaks coming in the near future. Until then I'll try to have my fun with... whatever this is.

 

**(that said... can someone explain to me why Red Battler is an ''exhibitionist'' and not ''physical''? she's Red Battler for heaven's sake, not Red Flasher! Val Red Battler? okay, that's a matter of argument... but her basic form? wtf? o.O)

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4 minutes ago, Moonlynx said:

**(that said... can someone explain to me why Red Battler is an ''exhibitionist'' and not ''physical''? she's Red Battler for heaven's sake

Did you expect a very well thought out reasoning behind every girl's Element? It's more likely they mostly went for a close to equal distribution overall without paying (much) attention to whether Element X's name/concept fits Girl 812C or not.. It's not like all HC girls are actually hardcore in their personality, or every CH girl charming, or every KH girl smart to begin with, and that's just 3 categories, not 8... ^^

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1 - With the elements i'm afraid that i have to say bye bye to the "almost competitive" life. From my perspective (at least if i got it correctly (please tell me that i'm wrong)) the best thing is to have the blessed/mixed girls in defence (as said above), and here no problem.

The issue for me is in the attacking part: the very best i can do is to see the girls in defence of my opponent, than see what elements they are, and then counter every girl he has with one that has the "right" element (in case of balanced teams). 

So for each person i challenge i have to, not only switch team but also switch the position of each girl to "match" the element of the ones of my opponent (again for balanced opponents). 

if this is the current situation the league would cost me waaaaaaay to much time to do my fights. Usually i only was watching if a guy was boosted and the levels of my opponents, do my fights, then log out and be happy (and sometimes win my league XD).

For this i would like to summon one of our smart forum person, and i hope that he is going to say me: "no you are silly again, and you've understood nothing. That's how it is....." :) 

2 - The Pantheon looks very good, i like a lot this new feature. Is for the long term, it gives many prizes and is really straight forward to understand. And mostly: Yes more saints!!! No...no... w8... My zodiac sign!!!!!!!!! TAURUS YEEEEES!!!!! 

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The problem is that now crits do a lot more damage. That has two consecuences, one obvious, the other one not so much:

  • You get more variance on possible results. A crit matters more. That produces these extreme possibilities people have talked about.
  • Optimizing is much more difficult. Previously, a crit on your part would mean exactly one less turn on a win. You could know what would exactly happen if your opponent had 2 more crits than you, or 2 less crits, or any other combination and take decisions based on that, comparing different equipment sets. Now I just tend to go with full rainbow. I guess we'll eventually have some help from the script but previously I could do it by hand, now it would take too much time.

 

40 minutes ago, Xemnas said:

For this i would like to summon one of our smart forum person, and i hope that he is going to say me: "no you are silly again, and you've understood nothing. That's how it is....." :) 

I've been summoned!
Individual girls order doesn't matter. What you're saying doesn't make any sense :P

If your opponent has a balanced team, just use your best stats team without worrying about anything else. If your opponent has a team that's of a given element, try to have a team of the dominant element, but that's it, the team as a whole, not every individual girl

Edited by Kenrae
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19 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Did you expect a very well thought out reasoning behind every girl's Element?

Of course not. I don't expect a very well thought out anything with KK anymore. ;)

But despite the expected equal distribution of the elements, and I don't mind turning a blind eye to some decisions regarding this, they could at least have gotten the most iconic girls of the game right. Including the three starter girls. Even with all the nutty things we had to put up with recently, I genuinely thought that they would get something simple as this right.

Ah, well. No real harm done, I guess (and to be fair - most of the element attributions I've noticed so far seem to make sense). But I'm a little bit baffled nevertheless.

Edited by Moonlynx
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The new combat system is very confusing. Right now I'm just losing and I don't think the change is great.

When I read that I have to set up the fighting force every time ... 🤔

The game should be an entertaining pleasure for me, without great strategy and time-consuming balancing of the combat force for each fight. (I already have that in RealLife 😅)

The new BDSM is good, even if one has shot up to 500. 😄

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There was technically just 1 warning not 3 (the other comments got hidden after @DvDivXXX merged your post).
(and it´s not like there was a ultering motive behind it, DvDivxx probably just wanted to tell you that in private/ without extending that here in the patch notes :))

Though you´re right that a "warning" can give a wrong impression ^^.. I´m pretty sure that he does appreciate you participating in such discussion´s as the rest of us :) @JustVisiting

 

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3 hours ago, Moonlynx said:

My first thoughts went into the same direction and I've already feared I'm just a little bit dim. Okay, that's still possible. But good to know that I'm not the only one who can't picture himself using anything else than a balanced team most of the time. As much as I like the elements idea**.

Btw - the battle results are completely bananas. Losing one fight with less than 10 points and winning another one with over 20 against the same opponent happens quite regularly now. It has a strange appeal and I like those knee-slappers somewhat. But I'm not sure if this all works as planned. ;)

The one positive thing about the battles after the update: the RNG isn't favoring the defender anymore... I think. Hard to say with this bonkers crit-festival. I mean, I still get my 0:3/0:4 critical hits per fight against opponents with <20k harmony. But I also had my fair share of improbable victories against stronger opponents. Or even 25 point victories against someone who wasn't much weaker than me.

I guess there will be some tweaks coming in the near future. Until then I'll try to have my fun with... whatever this is.

 

**(that said... can someone explain to me why Red Battler is an ''exhibitionist'' and not ''physical''? she's Red Battler for heaven's sake, not Red Flasher! Val Red Battler? okay, that's a matter of argument... but her basic form? wtf? o.O)

Damn, really? I'm getting the exact opposite. When it comes to crits, the most common "result" by far for me is me landing no crits and opponent getting two. But way too early to tell how much of any of what's happening to either of us is RNG.

As for the elements, there are some opportunities for fiddling with things here and there within the constraints of a "balanced" setup, but that's really just tiny little details here and there. 

And, as Kenrae already mentioned, it's no longer viable to calculate what combination of single stat and rainbow items would be best against each individual opponent. Mostly because the crits throw everything way off and make the results a lot more unpredictable. The heal per hit makes it trickier as well.
Not to mention with how powerful crits have become, there is a decent chance that using single stat items may no longer be viable in general.
So, perhaps ironically, this system may actually take less time to manage the league fights. It just takes a bit longer to set up the teams on blessing change, but then you just reuse them with no further need for fiddling with anything.

 

Edited by La Kajira
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I have yet to get a good grasp of the new system.  I am leaning towards the right system is keep balanced 80-90% of the time and only change for "special" cases who have maxed out a certain element.  I may be way off.  Right now I am balanced with my power as high as I can get it.  Getting way more 24-25 fights than I had before.  That could be a small sample size still, trying to figure it out.

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2 hours ago, holymolly said:

There was technically just 1 warning not 3 (the other comments got hidden after @DvDivXXX merged your post).
(and it´s not like there was a ultering motive behind it, DvDivxx probably just wanted to tell you that in private/ without extending that here in the patch notes :))

Tough you´re right that a "warning" can give a wrong impression ^^.. I´m pretty sure that he does appreciate you participating in such discussion´s as the rest of us :) @JustVisiting

 

You should really have a way to send a private message to members without that being a "warning". If that's not possible, a good idea would be to start the messages with a "this isn't really a warning, it's just that this is the only way we have to send a private message". It would decrease misunderstandings.

  

2 hours ago, La Kajira said:

And, as Kenrae already mentioned, it's no longer viable to calculate what combination of single stat and rainbow items would be best against each individual opponent. Mostly because the crits throw everything way off and make the results a lot more unpredictable. The heal per hit makes it trickier as well.
Not to mention with how powerful crits have become, there is a decent chance that using single stat items may no longer be viable in general.
So, perhaps ironically, this system may actually take less time to manage the league fights. It just takes a bit longer to set up the teams on blessing change, but then you just reuse them with no further need for fiddling with anything.

That's my current understanding as well. On one hand, it takes less time and that's always good. On the other hand, it takes away some strategic options that gave some advantage to people who understood the battle mechanics, and that's bad :P.

EDIT: Mods, I thought I was multiquoting, not doing a second message here, could you please fix this? Sorry 😅

Edited by DvDivXXX
Mod edit: Yes We Can ^^
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20 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

@JustVisiting I've hidden your off-topic post, but please, PLEASE go to your profile page and read the private message I've just sent you there (again, it is private even though you see it on your profile). It's important. Thanks in advance.

Thank you @DvDivXXX - appreciated. I would respond in kind but the lack of PM system prevents that and it would be off topic here.

 

On 10/22/2021 at 9:54 AM, DvDivXXX said:

There are no "best teams". There's Rainbow, and then there's "oh that guy went for Elements X & Y, let's punish him with Elements A & B". Edit: And it highly depends on how powerful your account is compared to each opponent, which now includes how many girls (up to 100) of each Element you have in your harem. AND obviously, even if someone went all Blue and going all Yellow would be the "hard counter" on.. paper, if the best three Blessed Girls you have on hand for Yellow are 3-star commons, then you're better off sticking to Rainbow even if that doesn't "counter" them.

Understood and I agree with you for the most part. But my point with this question was that there are actually far more than 7 girls in the top 7 in this instance (I'm assuming that as all the Mythics are unblessed, they are interchangable and the order is arbitrary). This allows for choices to be made.

Obviously on defense you want to go Rainbow. The seven in the first seven rows provide that neatly so provide your best team (though won't in every similar case and you can still have the 'best' team by switching in other Mythics).

For offense it's possible to make two potential Element combinations of 3 girls each. Princess Noemy, Alexa, Radka for Eccentric and Kalissa, Golden Lupa and High Mage Arcana for Exhibitionist. Now, obviously you would not want to have these Element groupings if your opponent was showing a Dominant grouping. So if the opponent showed an Element grouping of Eccentric, you'd want to actively avoid the Exhibitionist grouping and if they showed a grouping of Sensual you'd want to avoid Eccentric. And vice versa - if your opponent shows either Exhibitionist of Physical these two combinations become even more important. But my question in the original post - which admittedly wasn't conveyed particularly clearly - was really about what is the best team for offense if your opponent is showing Rainbow? Should you stick with Rainbow, or create one or both of the Element groupings? My understanding is you're still better off with the groupings but that may be a poor grasp of the system.

Edited by JustVisiting
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4 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

what is the best team for offense if your opponent is showing Rainbow?

It's always Rainbow. The active bonuses you get as rewards for having 3+ girls of one Element in your Team are counter bonuses only, that is, they only come into effect when you're facing a team of the Element your team counters. When your opponent shows Rainbow, you cannot have an active counter bonus against them, which effectively takes that out of the equation, so the only good move is to revert back to the default Rainbow best team in terms of stats. That's what I was getting at: building a non-Rainbow team is only relevant and a potentially valid option when you're attacking a non-Rainbow team. Otherwise, no active bonuses, so it doesn't matter and the best Elemental tag for your team is Rainbow.

For the most part.

Then there are the passive bonuses. Which are in effect no matter what, and the lion's share of the boost you can get passively from each Element comes from your harem, not your team (unless you completely ignore blessings and go aaaaall in). Having said that, each girl in your team also gives a significant additional boost to her Element's passive, so if/when stars align in a way that picking every other girl lower in the overall (Rainbow) list doesn't take a lot of stats away and allows you to form a team that's still Rainbow while boosting more relevant passive bonuses than the pure Rainbow Top 7 of the week... It could be worth it.

It depends a lot on your harem as well, now, of course. If a player has only 50-ish girls of a certain Element in their harem, they're getting half the passive bonus compared to the max. From there plenty of different choices can be made to either make up for that with girls in the team, or forget about that passive and try and boost an already maxed out one instead.

And so on. That's the gist of what I understood and experienced so far, at least. There's certainly still a lot more to explore.

HH Elements in a Nutshell A.png

There's little doubt in my mind that Rainbow (be it carefully tailored and optimized, or simply a direct copy-paste from zoopokemon's Top 7 and/or your 7 strongest as shown by the game itself) will be the dominant strategy at least most weeks. And even if it wasn't, the simple fact that it's way easier to maintain and you can't be punished for it defensively would make most players stick to it. So, I'd say we're now in a Rainbow meta, by default, but with a ton of potential for subtle variations (and obv the occasional extreme variation when Blessings favor certain Elements).

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24 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

It's always Rainbow. 

i disagree; all rainbows i fought today had worse expected result with my rainbow team than with my fire/stone team. It might be still important what girls you have because of their bonus besides the counter bonus you might get on top, like you said later. You are right though, it depends on the week and the blessings and your opponent etc. But for me, it seems like I am going to stick to fire/stone or fire/darkness for offense, but, ofc, for defense i take top7 rainbow.

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1 hour ago, blaa said:

fire/stone team

Okay, for future reference and sanity maintenance, I actually went and made this visual aid to check when people casually refer to the Elements with those arcane names.

HH Elements in a Nutshell C.png

So, the team Numbers & co have been hyping up and you, bla, are confirming as being apparently stronger for you than your best Rainbow option is "Fire & Stone", which means "Red & Orange" for those like me who prefer to remember the colors (and eventually maybe icons) than the lore names (or the WIP days name that stayed as is in the code, for now). So "Eccentric & Physical" in in-game terms...

Red & Orange... All in on "fingers crossed we get lots of crits", then?

Well, for me it looks something like this:

HH Elements in a Nutshell D.png

And again, the +20% to Damage and Ego are counter bonuses, so unless they don't work as intended and you actually get that boost regardless of your opponent, these shouldn't apply when you attack a Rainbow team (or anything that has neither the Green nor the Yellow tags).

This is strictly worse in every aspect. If the aforementioned counter bonuses from the "Domination Scheme" part actually apply, and if they're not reflected in the numbers when you're looking at your team, then perhaps I'm missing out and you guys are on to something. Otherwise, I fail to see how this would be advantageous to anyone versus a Rainbow team (over just your own best Rainbow team), even if it didn't require going down in raw stat value as much as I had to in the screenshot above.

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11 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Okay, for future reference and sanity maintenance, I actually went and made this visual aid to check when people casually refer to the Elements with those arcane names.

HH Elements in a Nutshell C.png

So, the team Numbers & co have been hyping up and you, bla, are confirming as being apparently stronger for you than your best Rainbow option is "Fire & Stone", which means "Red & Orange" for those like me who prefer to remember the colors (and eventually maybe icons) than the lore names (or the WIP days name that stayed as is in the code, for now). So "Eccentric & Physical" in in-game terms...

Red & Orange... All in on "fingers crossed we get lots of crits", then?

Well, for me it looks something like this:

HH Elements in a Nutshell D.png

And again, the +20% to Damage and Ego are counter bonuses, so unless they don't work as intended and you actually get that boost regardless of your opponent, these shouldn't apply when you attack a Rainbow team (or anything that has neither the Green or Yellow tags).

This is strictly worse in every aspect. If the aforementioned counter bonuses from the "Domination Scheme" part actually apply, and if they're not reflected in the numbers when you're looking at your team, then perhaps I'm missing out and you guys are on to something. Otherwise, I fail to see how this would be advantageous to anyone versus a Rainbow team (over just your own best Rainbow team), even if it didn't require going down in raw stat value as much as I had to in the screenshot above.

yeah, i am also totally confused by the names, but that's a typical KK thing - i will gladly take your visual help, just not sure, where i can put it :D

to be fair, the advantage was being only 0,1 point, so that's probably almost the same, and if you forget about putting your rainbow team back, you might lose more points cause people will gain on you. What i also liked that the percentages for more points were higher, but also for less points, the middle was spread out, so to say. It seems it's a little bit more like the higher risk but higher reward approach. So, yeah, it's the "all in on 'fingers crossed we get lots of crits'" approach, as far as i can tell

also, i have only done a few fights yet (but compared the setups with every opponent of my league) - for the numbers and how they apply i cant tell you more (it looks the same for me, worse stats everywhere), that's a task for somebody else

so, i guess, you are totally fine doing just rainbow - kinda boring tbh

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45 minutes ago, blaa said:

so, i guess, you are totally fine doing just rainbow - kinda boring tbh

Not necessarily, at least not every week. It will highly depend on the current Blessings, but not just when there's an explicit Elemental Blessing. For instance, this week on HH the regular Top 7 is technically NOT Rainbow, but Orange (at least in theory, as a grand total of one player has Taurus as of this writing, and they're level 271, so there's that ^^).

If you simply (lazily?) copy-paste the Top 7 from @zoopokemon's spreadsheets, it's quite likely to include 3 girls of the same Element now and then (Edit: or your best approximation of it might), so you won't always be Rainbow that way. I would probably go out of my way to make the best Rainbow team even if it's not the best in raw stats. But many more casual opponents might be, say, Red or Black instead of Rainbow some weeks. And this would make a big difference as they'd be a lot weaker in defense (when attacked by competitive players).

There's the potential for a lot more subtle... elements (haha) to consider over time. But of course, Rainbow will be "Balanced" most weeks, and it fulfills the promise to allow casuals not to pay attention to Elements without getting obliterated significantly more than before (including in PVE).

All in all, so far, I'd say it's a lot more complex than it has to, especially for this game, these devs, and this player base. But I don't see it completely shaking the PvP world, let alone balancing it, apart from challenging the community tools like never before (especially the battle simulator in @Tom208's script; I don't know if Numbers'/ @45026831's script is holding up any better, but it's one of those times where a temporary alliance might be worth it).

Edited by DvDivXXX
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Yes, the probabilistic sim in my version has been updated (if you're interested in the nitty-gritty, it's now a stochastic sim) to handle all elemental bonuses. The only inaccuracy left in it is that without the game providing the opponent's synergies, the script has to take a pessimistic estimate assuming the opponent has every girl available in game; which translates to the synergy cap on HH, and (at the time of writing) 21.625 girls per element on CxH.

It's all open-source, so anyone is free to take this sim if they like.

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