Club Champion raider problem

[Draggin Harold]

Is any other club experiencing an issue where a high level player joins your club, takes down the champion before anyone else has a chance to participate, then leaves the club?

We have had this happen a few times now, and it is very upsetting to our members who are all struggling to get stronger as it is.

We need a log of who all fought that persists even after the champion is defeated so that we can report the offending player accordingly.

[windia]

1 hour ago, Draggin Harold said:

Is any other club experiencing an issue where a high level player joins your club, takes down the champion before anyone else has a chance to participate, then leaves the club?

We have had this happen a few times now, and it is very upsetting to our members who are all struggling to get stronger as it is.

We need a log of who all fought that persists even after the champion is defeated so that we can report the offending player accordingly.

maybe your club leader can set the requirement up to lvl500 - this has noone and it prevents unseen "capturing". Of course it also prevents new users that come without invitation.... - or is there the option that the club leader must approve the join? I do not know these settings, I never set up a club on my own.

(=we do not have this problem as our club is full and I feel sorry for your club that it happens. The club mechanisms would need to prevent fighting club champion before 24h have passed in this club - yet the implementation does not count any of needed information for that, a simple "leader must approve any join" would also help - dunno if exists)

Edited March 2, 2021 by windia

[AmandaMoon]

At the very least we've all been wondering why there is no log feature.

Is this the same as setting the club to "closed"?  You will know everyone's name before they join, and when someone requests to join your club you can choose the time to let them in.

I assume the reason this scammer does not start their own club is because they would need to pay the cooldown cost.  Before you let a new player join make sure you have a club champion performance in progress with lots of your members already participating.  That way if the new player finishes it, you will all get some shards.

Edited March 3, 2021 by AmandaMoon
tried to make it clearer

[DvDivXXX]

@Draggin Harold I moved your thread to the QA section. This is way too specific of a point to be in General Discussions, and I don't want everybody and their cousin to make their own CC thread again (even though it's not as big a deal now as it was back when this feature wasn't old news). You might be interested in following or maybe joining the discussion in one of those existing threads about this cooperative feature and the realizations and issues it showcased in many clubs:

 

 

 

As for what happens to your club specifically, it seems really odd and SO not worth it for the "raider"... I'm baffled anyone would even want to bother doing this, even if they're disrespectful enough to not realize this is not okay. Your club leader has the responsibility to handle who's in and who's out, ultimately. If your club is an open bar and it attracts party crashers, it might be a good idea to get a bouncer (eg make entry to the club invite-only) or to consider closing the bar and finding a more suitable one (in case you're in open bar mode because you don't have enough active members to really hold up as a club).

 

[Kenrae]

You can set your club as Restricted, that way people can ask to join but they must be approved by the leader.

[windia]

2 minutes ago, AmandaMoon said:

[...]

Is this the same as setting the club to "closed"?  That is an excellent suggestion.  You will know everyone's name before they join, and when someone requests to join your club you can choose the time to let them in.

I assume the reason this scammer does not start their own club is because they would need to pay the cooldown cost.  Make sure you have a club champion performance in progress with lots of your members already participating.  That way even if some new player finishes it, you will all get some shards.

So you say/ you know that a club leader can set the club joining to "need confirmation by club leader" already? 

Because that is my second suggestion. There is no way a club can alway maintain a running club champion with many participants - because waiting to start at a good time for most ordinary club members is what makes it possible to beat the cc together... - your suggestion is to simply "do it all the time with all members" - which does not fit for smaller clubs. and even then someone can join 5 min later and overtake the command.

[AmandaMoon]

3 hours ago, Kenrae said:

You can set your club as Restricted, that way people can ask to join but they must be approved by the leader.

Thanks, Kenrae.  That's what I meant, Restricted not Closed.

Edited March 3, 2021 by AmandaMoon
boredom

[Bomba]

7 hours ago, Draggin Harold said:

Is any other club experiencing an issue where a high level player joins your club, takes down the champion before anyone else has a chance to participate, then leaves the club?

We have had this happen a few times now, and it is very upsetting to our members who are all struggling to get stronger as it is.

We need a log of who all fought that persists even after the champion is defeated so that we can report the offending player accordingly.

Yep, this is an issue that some clubs are experiencing right now. This club-hopping is too beneficial for high level players to ignore. And it messes with low-level clubs a lot. Not only champion goes on cooldown without anything given to the players of that club, but also it raises the champion level. Which makes it either harder or impossible to beat for those low level players.

What you can do to prevent this? First, leader can restrict the access to the club - either by raising required level to 500 or by setting your club to restricted status. Although, if you want to stay open to potential newcomers, there's another way - you should make at least one attack against Champion the moment the cooldown goes off. That will prevent the club-hoppers from gaining shards or gifts and maybe they will not attack at all if they know what they're doing(and if not, you will at least get some shards). However that still gives points to contests, so that will not help if there's a daily contest for participating in battles against Champions. And for that day it will be better to close off the club.

[DvDivXXX]

56 minutes ago, Bomba said:

This club-hopping is too beneficial for high level players to ignore.

I don't really see how. Is it that the lower-level club's CC is so much weaker that one high-level player can beat it on his own with a fairly small amount of tickets? Otherwise it would cost them a lot more kobans to do it on their own than doing one their own size with a club of other high-level players who can share the cost. And even if they can one-shot a CC (as in, being the only participant), it's not like it guarantees them the complete girl (it's still just RNG within a drop range, maybe with a ridiculously high ceiling in this scenario, but the floor is still always 1). I can't really imagine who would want to go through all that club-hopping hassle for slightly better odds at getting an old-school 5.3 legendary that they're almost guaranteed to get anyway if they just stay in a club matching their own level. Not to mention, it isn't anywhere near worth taking the risk to end up without a club or with an incomplete or less active one (assuming they were in a good club for their level prior to this feature's introduction, of course, which is probably not the case). I mean, even if they're selfish enough that they don't care about ruining a lot of other players' fun in the process, what's in it for them?

I can only imagine those doing this are the same type of high level players who don't play in the leagues at all, have a super small harem for how long they've been playing the game, use a tri-class battle team, etc. In short, long-time noobs who still don't know what they're doing, but happen to be relatively strong stats wise anyway just because of the game's imbalanced "the older, the stronger" power system. And for some reason, some players matching that profile assume that this shady practice is worth doing, just because they can (and they don't care or maybe even understand the damage they're doing to other players, presumably).

The more I think this through, the more I want to report the issue to Kinkoid, actually. If this is really a trend right now, then that's pretty toxic and should be addressed. Off the top of my head, I'd consider something fairly standard for games with something similar to a club in HH (so basically most MMOs with guilds, clans, etc.) with group features attached to them: prevent a player from participating in the first group fight that takes place after they've joined the club (or something along those lines).

[GeorgeMTO]

10 hours ago, Draggin Harold said:

We need a log of who all fought that persists even after the champion is defeated so that we can report the offending player accordingly.

There's no game rules that would expect them to get punished for this. You'd either need your club leader to take care of this for you, or to just accept that it'll happen. I'd be genuinely shocked if Kinkoid took any action over this completely legal instance of gameplay.

[Bomba]

20 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

I don't really see how. Is it that the lower-level club's CC is so much weaker that one high-level player can beat it on his own with a fairly small amount of tickets?

The whole issue is about players, who come into clubs and finish it with 1 ticket. It is possible. Though the level should be really high. Like 450+ from what I understand. And the benefits are girl's shards at first and then gifts. It's not something everyone will bother with, but it's still beneficial. The main issue for me is that every one of those battles counts towards daily contests.

I don't know how bad it is for lower level clubs who are active, but now when I think about it one player who can do that will basically be enough to trouble a lot of clubs daily. And honestly, I think I'm guilty on this front, cause I posted about this possibility on the forum. Also, I did two runs in about 14 clubs to test out what is possible and what is not. Guilty as charged. Although it was hard to find those clubs and most of them were dead and even for the Club Champion of my own specialty I couldn't go past level 90 without problems, so it is pretty troublesome to actually do those runs with finishing the club champion from one ticket. I can't do it for example, but I'm only level 413 currently.

But the club-hopping is still good for any player even if you don't finish the Champion from one attack or even if you not eligible for the shards or gift reward. For the simple reason that we have tons of tickets and nowhere to use them basically, especially after they removed epic orbs from normal Champions.

Another issue is that on paper club-hopping is good. And I mean good for those clubs where those players hop into. And I don't mean those club-hoppers who finish it with 1 attack, I mean those who just add participation. Cause afaik that participation adds shard range anyway, so if you don't add much it helps. Also, some clubs are struggling with Club Champions, so any help would matter.

[Methos2]

3 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

There's no game rules that would expect them to get punished for this. You'd either need your club leader to take care of this for you, or to just accept that it'll happen. I'd be genuinely shocked if Kinkoid took any action over this completely legal instance of gameplay.

Just because it is legal now doesn't mean it should remain so. Racketeering wasn't illegal until the 1970's. Club hopping can really hurt the lower level clubs. KK should be aware of the undesirable effect on their new feature. Hopefully, they have the sense to adjust accordingly.

[Methos2]

3 hours ago, Bomba said:

Another issue is that on paper club-hopping is good. And I mean good for those clubs where those players hop into. And I don't mean those club-hoppers who finish it with 1 attack, I mean those who just add participation. Cause afaik that participation adds shard range anyway, so if you don't add much it helps. Also, some clubs are struggling with Club Champions, so any help would matter.

I doubt the hoppers would stick around to fight champion if they see high participation. Why would they share shards when there are easier targets?!

[GeorgeMTO]

1 minute ago, Methos2 said:

Just because it is legal now doesn't mean it should remain so. Racketeering wasn't illegal until the 1970's. Club hopping can really hurt the lower level clubs. KK should be aware of the undesirable effect on their new feature. Hopefully, they have the sense to adjust accordingly.

The method to combat it already exists. The leaders can choose to prevent people from doing that in their clubs. If they don't, they're saying they're okay with that happening in their club.

[Methos2]

3 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

The method to combat it already exists. The leaders can choose to prevent people from doing that in their clubs. If they don't, they're saying they're okay with that happening in their club.

Sure, request-only would stop that but it shouldn't be only measure. When you have a low level club, you want to be as inviting as possible. New clubs need members when they have little or nothing to offer. Request can be turn off for someone looking to join.

[Ol Sheriff Joe]

Well... That is your choice. Either you set-up an open-bar, and pray the Lord for no vultures to come in and crash the party, or you do some minimal at the entrance ID check... Yes, it will slow your club's growth, but it will also help it growing in the right direction, the one your leader will choose for it

I simply don't see anything in what you mentioned that would need Kinkoid's intervention... they can't change player's sense of ethics. 

What could be done, though, (that would help you stay open and still not be afraid of raiding), is asking Kinkoid to set up not only a minimal level of entry in a club (as is already the case), but also a maximal one... 

[Kenrae]

1 hour ago, Ol Sheriff Joe said:

What could be done, though, (that would help you stay open and still not be afraid of raiding), is asking Kinkoid to set up not only a minimal level of entry in a club (as is already the case), but also a maximal one... 

Actually, that's a good idea, and not only because of this particular issue.

[DvDivXXX]

Agreed. A maximum level limit for joining a club would be a very useful protection for small clubs in general. That's a simple but very effective tool to implement.

For the CC specifically, though, I really think something like a simple cooldown period for players who just joined a club would be healthy to add. I played many games that have guilds with cooperative features, and they ALL had something like this. Exactly to prevent the type of shenanigans this thread describes, and also everything that @Bomba was wondering about and tested.

Whether it's explicitly against the rules or not, a high level player jumping from small club to small club specifically to rob them of their local cooperative feature is about as toxic as it gets. This reminds me of older MMOs without new player protection or safe zones, when you had veteran players who openly "farmed" new players as soon as they spawned. That wasn't fun either.

It also reminds me of high level players in this very game who spend their time in S3 or D1 on purpose, of course. But that part of the game is already known (even by Kinkoid) to be in dire need of a rework for balance. It would be nice to avoid somewhat similar problems with CC before that just becomes the norm.

[jelom]

6 hours ago, Methos2 said:

I doubt the hoppers would stick around to fight champion if they see high participation. Why would they share shards when there are easier targets?!

If I understand well you mean there is a fixed amount of shards shared between the participants in the fight against the club champion, and with more participants the number of shards each player receive is lower.

In fact, the opposite is true, the more participants in the fight the more the high bound of the shard range grows for everybody (well, except for the people with only one fight that will always be 1-3 shards).