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Cooldown after Leaving a Club will have bad consequences


Fiel
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Not being part of a club ensures:

  • You lose any chances of winning high-end prizes in the Tower of Fame League => potential loss of ten thousand Kobans in some cases
  • Or you lose a lot of the regenerated Challenge Tokens while you force yourself to do nothing in the League for 24 hours

This will have a lot of bad consequences:

  • @Ol Sheriff Joe recently invited me to his club. But to do this, I would take huge risks and might not even win Top 4 prizes.
  • Club leaders will have have huge power over the players, they can pretty much punish you by making you lose points in the Leagues if they don't like you for whatever reason.
  • Sometimes it's not always your fault for leaving a club. If someone in the club betrays you and gives 75 points to your rivals, and you just want to cut ties to that person and people who support him, you shouldn't be punished by losing additional League performance for that.

Alternative solutions Kinkoid can implement (while still solving the original problem of Champion-join abuse):

  • Don't make the Timer begin right after you leave. Instead make the timer begin After you join a club, so you get the warning that you can't join another club until after 24 hours.
  • It doesn't need to be restricted to 24 hours. We can use 48 hours as cooldown, or even 72 hours, or more, even a week long cooldown can be used.

What do you guys think about this topic?

Please add more constructive suggestions if you have some.

Edited by Fiel
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1 minute ago, GeorgeMTO said:

the loss of 24 hours is nothing.

It could potentially mean you only win 2880 Koban instead of 5670 Koban.

Or in worst case, it could mean you only win 2880 Koban instead of 14400 Koban. That's not "nothing".

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37 minutes ago, Fiel said:
  • Don't make the Timer begin right after you leave. Instead make the timer begin After you join a club, so you get the warning that you can't join another club until after 24 hours.

This is how I'd have done it myself. In fact, that's what came to my mind when I read the patch notes, never crossed my mind that they would do the timer when leaving a club and not when joining one, it's very weird.

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Well, @Fiel is not as if we were changing clubs every week, so it is a once in a year problem.

The club leaders will have the same power as before, and they don't usually kick off active people in most clubs. And the betrayal event you suffered is also extremely rare.

If you don't really want to lose any points in the improbable event of being kicked or if you decide to change club, you just have to stop your league fights during that time, better spending 200-300 kobans recharging challenges than losing a top place.

 

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21 minutes ago, jelom said:

you just have to stop your league fights during that time,

That can cause you to lose a 1st place, or it can cause you to lose a 4th place too. There axtually exist League opponents who only power down once or twice a week,

You might think this is an issue that will never affect you, but it will affect others. And It's going to be bad for you as well if you ever find yourself in a situation where you want to try a new club.

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1 hour ago, Fiel said:

That can cause you to lose a 1st place, or it can cause you to lose a 4th place too. There axtually exist League opponents who only power down once or twice a week,

Then you have to take a decision: fighting when you don't have the club boost and risk losing 0-2 points per battle, or waiting until you are in a club again, and risk fighting them later when they are fully boosted, losing 4-5 points per battle.

You know most people unboost more than once, so you can weight the risk involved.

But as I said before, the event of changing clubs for top players is very rare, so it is better preventing the club champion raiding and accept this inconvenience.

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Just now, jelom said:

But as I said before, the event of changing clubs for top players is very rare, so it is better preventing the club champion raiding and accept this inconvenience.

But you can prevent the club champion raiding without this inconvenience, just put the cooldown when you join a new club instead of when you leave a club. I agree it will be rare but why have this problem when there's such an easy solution?

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6 minutes ago, Kenrae said:

but why have this problem when there's such an easy solution?

That's what I am confused about as well. I cannot understand why Jelom and GeorgeMTO are opposing this alternative easy solution.

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Because it doesn't solve the problem. You join a club, kill their champion. Stay for 24 hours, kill it again, jump to another club and kill that instantly too.

I don't understand why you're whining about a nonproblem in changing your club. So you lose a single league, big deal.

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6 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Because it doesn't solve the problem. You join a club, kill their champion. Stay for 24 hours, kill it again, jump to another club and kill that instantly too.

Champions are a group effort, you can't just "kill them instantly". It would require a sacrifice of an absurd amount of tickets and Koban to kill a Champion fast.

Edited by Fiel
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If I look on different solution path' about the goal "avoid crushing CC", i see e.g. these

  • after leaving a club, block club entry for 24h
    • this is player centric in all parts
    • I need a timer "club left" that is 0 or higher
    • I need no other changes at all - well, the "ask to join a club" might get either deactivated until "club left <= 0" or it gets screwed. 
      • Edit: => any code regarding club members is untouched and works as before
    • if I'm a new player: my counter starts with 0 = I can join instantly
  • after entering a club, block fighting this CC for 24h
    • I need a player specific  timer "club entered" 
    • I need to make the interface "fight CC" somewhat different because 
      • until now there is "cool down is running - pay kobans or wait <=24h" and "your team cools down - pay kobans or wait <=15min"
      • so there would be need of "you are too fresh, wait <=24h and you cannot pay kobans"
    • additionally: new players need to be seperated - because they never left a club = need to be able to fight instantly
      • Edit:  => I need to touch not only the player's profile yet also the club functionality.

So "just block fighting CC after entering" is not the full picture. 

And CC spammers just want "hop off, hop in, crash CC, hop back & keep fighting own CC"

Edited by windia
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19 minutes ago, Fiel said:

Champions are a group effort, you can't just "kill them instantly". It would require a sacrifice of an absurd amount of tickets and Koban to kill a Champion fast.

I never did it. I just read the complaints in the forum. And it happened. Too often to be ignored. Because a club of 20 members lvl 100 with a KH CC allows an instant finish - with low ticket numbers. Ask Kenrae who is in a higher club - he accidently finished his CC with 1 ticket.

While this might have been penalized with 4 shards max - the new fixed numbers require to avoid spamming.

Edited by windia
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5 minutes ago, windia said:

And CC spammers just want "hop off, hop in<<<<<<<<Insert 60 hour timer>>>>>>>>>> crash CC, hop back & keep fighting own CC"

It doesn't have to be 24 hours. We can punish such exploitative behavior with 72 hours, or even 1 week cooldown.

This way it will not affect anybody in a negative way, since they can join a Club if they get kicked, or have to leave for other circustances.

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6 minutes ago, Fiel said:

It doesn't have to be 24 hours. We can punish such exploitative behavior with 72 hours, or even 1 week cooldown.

This way it will not affect anybody in a negative way, since they can join a Club if they get kicked, or have to leave for other circustances.

I'm not saying it is impossible - I listed above some technical implications that instantly came to my mind. 

And complex solutions have two tendencies: fitting better to reality and being somewhat buggy and having overseen side effects.

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2 minutes ago, windia said:

I'm not saying it is impossible - I listed above some technical implications that instantly came to my mind. 

And complex solutions have two tendencies: fitting better to reality and being somewhat buggy and having overseen side effects.

I think you had some really good ideas in your post. I'm just expanding the suggestion a little bit on the timer durations.

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I feel like this approach is the one with the least downsides. It helps clubs that had problems with those "egoistic" behaving players that farm their CC and is the most bug/problem resistent approach.. I can see that @Fiel it may appear to be somewhat less than perfect in your specific case but the "downside" is a once in a "lifetime" downside imo since I feel like you probably won´t change clubs again. Obviously there are "solutions" to this problem but I feel like KK has bigger problems to fix than that one (Mythic items f.e. :P )

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1 hour ago, holymolly said:

 I feel like you probably won´t change clubs again.

It can be a good experience to change clubs, and I think meeting new people and making new friends can be a strength of this game since there are so many players and clubs in the server.

I'm also not opposed to joining a new club and helping them upgrade their stats for a bit if it helps make them happy as well.

 

But not if I have to incur League penalties. I'd rather prefer a 1 week cooldown After joining, than a 1 day cooldown after leaving.

Edited by Fiel
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Mumble... and what happen if you'll get kicked out in the same 24 hours? Can you join another club?

I mean, there's the chance of an entire range of clubs that continually exchange players to abuse the system. Just kickin them out.

If you cannot be kicked out those 24h, you're practically immune to everything, including being moderated for some reason.

The KK solution is not perfect, but the alternative is only to rewrite how the champion event work, binding players to a max number of shards/week based on level, for example. This probably create some other math issue I cannot figure out.

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  1. Everything important has already been said, and repeated.
     
  2. Every one of the insanely "first world problem" complaints of Fiel's OP has also been said and repeated.
     
  3. @Fiel We heard you. You seem unable to hear us, though (George, Jelom, Lepid...). You're so far gone off the deep end of the incredibly tiny micro-meta of the few people so incredibly spoiled by the Leagues' gross imbalance for so long that you're actually building a whole argument (borderline crusade) against a basic restriction clearly designed to stop massive exploits and abuse that harmed hundreds if not thousands of mostly low-level players in low-level leagues, with your sole argument being your über specific personal situation in the game right now... And other completely fantasized and ridiculous unlikely and infrequent specific situations that might happen to others maybe someday, within the couple dozens (if that!) of you constant D3 "winners". This is insane and, frankly, you're equal parts embarrassing yourself and insulting the vast majority of the player base with this nonsense. The scary thing is that you clearly don't realize any of this.
     
  4. We are DONE, here.

PS: @Fiel Just to make extra sure, please visit your own profile page and do read the private warnings from mods there.

Edited by DvDivXXX
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