Booster efficiency comparison between Know-How and Charm class

[mcf]

I made this post just to recreate a scenario where we can compare the two strongest classes, KH and CH. For this post, i'm going to make some assumptions regarding stats. We are going to take two exactly matching heroes, the only difference being the class. Let us assume that both Heroes are level 390, Hereby i will provide three scenarios:
1) Both heroes are unboosted
2) Both heroes are on the same boosters, all being ginseng roots.
3) KH hero has 4 chlorella, CH hero has 4 cordyceps.

Firstly, let's discuss stats. To have 2 matching heroes, i thought it'd be good to choose one hero. I'll explain: 

We'll take this absolute beast as our test subject. Now we will compare him with himself, if he were to switch to KH class and also have three KH mythic girls. So:
1) As subject 1, the CH hero, we will take this person's stats on the screen to make calculations. Stats: HC: 27821 CH: 38526 KH: 26738 Harmony: 29904
2) As subject 2, the KH hero, we take this person's stats but switch them around. We will give the KH stat the current CH stat, and for the benefit of doubt we will give his current HC stat to the CH stat (benefit for KH user). This means our KH hero's stats look like this: HC: 26738 CH: 27821 KH: 38526 Harmony: 29904 

The reason for this switch, is that mythic girls, regardless of class, share the same main stat (hero class). The only difference being the other class stats. We have to make an assumption for this to work, so we've retained the offensive stat (38526) and switched the other class stats around. As for the ego of both heroes, this will be the exact same. The calculations for this entire post can be found: https://harem-battle.club/wiki/Harem-Heroes/HH:Battle -> The ego for both heroes will be : 348990
Also, the harmony bonus KH gets over CH will be 20%. This means that the KH hero has 35885 harmony. This leads to: 27.3 % chance for Reassurance and 22.7 % chance for Narcissism. Only a 5 % advantage. 

Now let's start on the scenarios. To come up with the Attack power, defense and special attacks we need to do some calculations. We will be looking at the girls in the test subject's team for the girl stats. Yes, it is entirely true that stats differ among mythic girls in the secondary and thirtiary stats. However to make this simulation work, we must assume that the "Mythic KH girls"  have the same secondary stats as the girls above. Attack power is easy to calculate as it depends on only main stat. As for defense however, we take the second highest stat of each girl for the KH hero just for argument sake (this helps KH hero more). If you want to skip calculations and go to results, skip to the next paragraph.

1) If subject 1 and 2 have a fight without boosters, the following will happen:
subject 1 (CH hero): Attack power (alpha) : 56217 (+beta): 63883 (+omega): 69780 -> Attack power: 56217 -> 63883 -> 69780 
                                  Defense (Alpha): 17464 (+beta) : 27784 (+omega) : 33680 -> Defense against KH: 17646 -> 27784 -> 33680
                                  Narcissism (alpha) : +56217 defense -> (+beta): +63883 defense -> (+omega): +69780 defense (50% attack power, 2 rounds)
                                  Ego: 348990

 

subject 2 (KH hero): Attack power (alpha): 56217 (beta): 63833 (omega): 69780 -> Attack power: 56217->63883->69780
                                  Defense (Alpha): 17646 (beta) 27784 (omega) 33680 ->           Defense: 17646->27784->33680 
                                  Reassurance: 10% ego = 34899
                                  Ego: 348990

As you can see, the CH hero will win significantly harder than the KH hero will in an orgy if both get the same amount of critical strikes. If Narcissism happens the same amount as Reassurance, CH wins the battle by far. Judging by the Ego and the Damage both heroes will be dishing out, we can expect the battle to go on for at least 8-10 rounds. This means that on average, taking the harmony and odds of getting a critical strike in, the CH hero will get off 2 Narcissisms on average. The Kh hero also gets off 2 Reassurances.
Now for the interesting part: Imagine the scenario where the CH hero only gets one narcissism and the KH gets 2 reassurances. On average, the CH hero blocks around 63000 damage. The KH hero gets back around 69798 health. This makes CH look very awesome, since if CH would get off TWO narcissisms, it would block way more damage than TWO Reassurances could ever heal. Blocking 126000 damage over healing 69798 health is a big win for CH in this case. Notice how in this scenario both classes will dish out the exact same damage onto eachother (in reality, it will differ a bit more but this shows how much better narcissism is even after giving KH some benefits earlier).

2) Scenario two involves both heroes taking 4 ginseng roots (most popular/efficient booster). This will boost their stats equally by 24%. Now both heroes would dish out EQUALLY more damage, meaning the battle would become faster. We could expect 6-8 rounds this time, since attack power is boosted way more than defense is by these boosters. And assuming that both heroes have the stats mentioned above, this means that the ego is boosted by around 18000. And as we mentioned before, the fight becomes more of a factor of reassurances and narcissisms. If we look at which one benefits more from the boosters, it becomes quite clear already. The ego is boosted by only 18000, which gives reassurance an additional 1800 on healing. Attack power goes up by 9246, meaning Narcissism gets a boost of 9246 (50% of attack power, 2 rounds), which triumps heavily over the boost reassurance gets. Even if, by some miracle, ego was boosted by 400% (additional 7200 healing) more than i mentioned, it would STILL get outperformed by narcissism. Crazy!

3) Now we could argue that, if we were to use boosters that benefit the KH class' reassurance we could see more interesting results. Sadly, i disagree heavily. If we give both heroes the booster that benefits their critical strikes the most (reassurance and narcissism), we would give CH hero 4 cordyceps (Attack power) and the KH hero 4 Chlorella (Ego). Now, assuming stats remain the same, the attack power now goes up by 40% for CH. This means -> 78704->89436->97692. This gives Narcissism an insane boost of around 20-25k. Also remember that the attacks are now on average 20-25k more on each hit as well. Assuming earlier that the fight lasts 8 rounds, thats an extra 200k damage max. KH gets to 488586 ego. This increases reassurance by 13.9k. Even with the huge ego boost, narcissism still comes on top, not even considering the extra 200k damage CH would do. 

We've concluded that in most cases, given the same stats, the ultimate girls team, CH triumps over KH in most scenarios. In an average orgy, both heroes get off around 7-10 hits. This is on average enough for one critical strike, sometimes two. Narcissism destroys Reassurance. This effect seems to be even greater when using boosters of any kind. We have even been lenient to compare both heroes of the same stats. If we were to ever see a maxed out battle team for both KH and CH, this post is an indicication of how things would go. 

[Kenrae]

CH is the best class nowadays, but in order to score the most points in the league, which is what really matters in the top game, the difference is not that big. It's never about who wins in a direct battle of equally boosted players because you get your points across the board, against all kind of opponents, and you try to catch people unboosted anyway (while you're boosted of course). Also, you check what's the optimum equipment against your current opponent, you don't have to fight using the same kind of equipment (or boosters).

KH is better against low level players because it gets the full crit no matter what. As crazy as narcissism is nowadays you can't block in a round more than the other player attack minus your natural defense, because you can't get negative damage, while you can heal more than that with reassurance. A single crit can amount for 3-5 rounds of attacks in this case.

Of course, that doesn't fully offset the fact that CH is better against mid and, specially, high level players, but it brings KH just a notch below CH.

If you'd make this comparison with HC I'm sure it would seem like the better class compared to KH, and we all know that's not really the case.

[mcf]

On 7/5/2021 at 10:11 AM, Kenrae said:

CH is the best class nowadays, but in order to score the most points in the league, which is what really matters in the top game, the difference is not that big. It's never about who wins in a direct battle of equally boosted players because you get your points across the board, against all kind of opponents, and you try to catch people unboosted anyway (while you're boosted of course). Also, you check what's the optimum equipment against your current opponent, you don't have to fight using the same kind of equipment (or boosters).

KH is better against low level players because it gets the full crit no matter what. As crazy as narcissism is nowadays you can't block in a round more than the other player attack minus your natural defense, because you can't get negative damage, while you can heal more than that with reassurance. A single crit can amount for 3-5 rounds of attacks in this case.

Of course, that doesn't fully offset the fact that CH is better against mid and, specially, high level players, but it brings KH just a notch below CH.

If you'd make this comparison with HC I'm sure it would seem like the better class compared to KH, and we all know that's not really the case.

I agree with you that it is a case of being a good class in general, versus many players. However, i didn't quite understand what you said about low level players getting the full crit no matter what? I'm assuming you mean Narcissism's defense boost may "overdo it"  and block more than the opponent's entire Attack power? Even if this is the case, the amount of "effective blocking" is still higher than a reassurance would ever heal in any scenario vs most opponents. This is why CH is still the best class by far since, as you said, in the later levels it becomes an even better pay off where the gap between damage negated by narcissism vs reassurance increases. This is mostly because Attack Power scales better into the later levels than defenses do, making the damage players do to eachother bigger. 

[Kenrae]

3 hours ago, mcf said:

I agree with you that it is a case of being a good class in general, versus many players. However, i didn't quite understand what you said about low level players getting the full crit no matter what? I'm assuming you mean Narcissism's defense boost may "overdo it"  and block more than the opponent's entire Attack power? Even if this is the case, the amount of "effective blocking" is still higher than a reassurance would ever heal in any scenario vs most opponents. This is why CH is still the best class by far since, as you said, in the later levels it becomes an even better pay off where the gap between damage negated by narcissism vs reassurance increases. This is mostly because Attack Power scales better into the later levels than defenses do, making the damage players do to eachother bigger. 

Yes, that's what I mean. And you're repeating basically what I've said  . On my level (477), reassurance is better than narcissism against the lower level players in the league... let's say, the bottom 20%. They're equivalent against the next 10% and then narcissism is better against the rest, 70%. The numbers are pulled out of my ass, of course, but I'm sure I'm not that off. Overall, narcissism is better, but the difference is not as big as one might think if you just compare one against the other in a direct battle. Some people results prove that you can be a very competitive player being KH, but most competitive players have switched to CH because it gives an edge.
By the way, I'm talking about D3, of course.

[mcf]

10 hours ago, Kenrae said:

Yes, that's what I mean. And you're repeating basically what I've said  . On my level (477), reassurance is better than narcissism against the lower level players in the league... let's say, the bottom 20%. They're equivalent against the next 10% and then narcissism is better against the rest, 70%. The numbers are pulled out of my ass, of course, but I'm sure I'm not that off. Overall, narcissism is better, but the difference is not as big as one might think if you just compare one against the other in a direct battle. Some people results prove that you can be a very competitive player being KH, but most competitive players have switched to CH because it gives an edge.
By the way, I'm talking about D3, of course.

Ah yeah i get that. But if the point system of leagues is based on %Ego you have left, then Narcissism will give you almost (if not exactly) the same points you'd get from being KH vs bottom players. And as you said, for the remaining 70% of the people the payoff CH gives you outweighs the miniscule payoff you'd get from bottom players as KH. I guess our only difference of opinion is mostly on how big this gap is between CH and KH. Given that you're experienced and have seen the performance of KH players personally it is interesting to know you notice only a small gap between CH and KH. Maybe i'll notice this later on when i level up as well, but as i see it right now if i'd switch from KH to CH i'd personally notice a huge difference. I'm preparing for a switch to CH soon (have a mythic girl almost fully upgraded, Hazel on the standby and awaiting another 5* CH girl) and will test my theory about the big gap between classes.