(Club) Champions

[Computersaysno]

Shard Reward Display:
I think the Shard reward that is displayed should show what you would actually get if the Club Champion (from now on called CC) was defeated at the moment.
The current system simply doesn't make any sense and for new players it's impossible to even somewhat figure out how the system works.
To solve this simply change the formula so it compares your impression with the max amount of impression possible and not what your Club members have already done.

Difficulty
CC has gotten too hard, maybe even normal Champions. I would say they deal too much damage. I'm above the club average and I rarely get to round 10 mostly to 7 or 8 even with up to date gear and maxed stats. What are players supposed to do below the average which have even less? Easiest solution would probably be to not double their damage if the pose doesn't match(there is potentially a bug that sometimes deals double damage even if the pose matches which could make this look even worse) or at least decrease the overall damage by 10% to 25% or you could also increase the players defense but that would affect PvP as well.

Level Display
Now it's nice that the Level of the CC is just half the clubs average + 10*per10wins but this doesn't represent the strength of it at all as you need about twice the level to make any sensible progress. I can only imagine this is to encourage lower level players to participate. While it might work for the first challenge, for the following they will simply be depressed for having made no progress even though it is far below their level and aren't willing to challenge them again.
To solve it simply double the visual level but keep the stats the same.

Information
Lastly please update the CC how to information and maybe add more.
-it doesn't has to be defeated within 24 hours anymore
-give more information on how many shards you get and what it's based on (impression and participants, maybe the formula for the technical players)
-what is the level and Tier of the CC based on
-Can you even still lose against a CC?o buy tickets
-Have a shortcut to the Champion reception desk to refresh your mind how they work and to be able to buy tickets

Tier
I feel like the Tier is honestly a relic and could be removed altogether since it doesn't seem to add anything. I imagine this was mainly to let it self balance somewhat which it won't anymore since you barely can lose against a CC anymore if at all.

Shard Reward Amount
Lastly, I personally wouldn't have the shards based on participants at all and just give 1 shard for every 1 to 3 percent. But i am aware this will never happen so set the participants relative to the club members (not the possible ones) with a minimum of 10 to prevent people from creating their own private club just to get more shards

[Bomba]

There's a lot of good points.

Shard Reward Display: Yeah, this change would be nice. But it kinda falls into the "Information" category and sadly they all have mostly the same answer.

Difficulty: There was a change that affected all champions. It was more noticeable on club champions, because people pay more attention to it. With the introduction of the new battle system Kinkoid changed how girls stats for battle are calculated. And for champion battles that was basically a big drop in their battle power. We don't know if that was intended, but it's hard to expect them to change it until they finish all the changes to the battle system. So we can only wait until they finish it. After that, they promised they will start rebalancing things. And yes, champions should be on the list of those changes and we should remind them about it. But for now we wait.

Level Display: This is really more related to how the difficulty got changed and affected other things. For previous levels that difficulty made sense. And that level represented the power of the champion, not the level at which players should be comfortable attacking him. I agree that such change to the level would be more informative, but that again, falls into "Information" category.

Information: Those are all good points. But for everything information related there's basically one and only answer on this forum: Kinkoid isn't great at communicating and providing information. That's it. Could be great to have those changes, but it's not a priority compared to everything else.

Tier: The idea of the tier was more about how the champion should become stronger and stronger with each win. The same way as normal champions work. And it was balanced by the fact that there was an option to drop those tier levels if the club can't beat the champion even once. Now, with no 24 hours limit there's no really need for that.

Shard Reward Amount: There was a lot of topics in the past which proposed different ways to distribute shards. I think this part should be discussed in a more relevant topic. Either the one which already contains such ideas or just a new topic altogether just for this.

To sum it up. You did an amazing job by compiling all of those points and proposing those ideas. You gathered everything relevant here. Great job! I think that everything that falls into information category should be implemented. Providing visibility and proper information is very important and these changes should do exactly that. But yeah, probably will not happen anytime soon. Other points are either not problems in my eyes or I think that we should wait until the overhaul of the battle system is finished. As for the last point with the shard reward amount - I think that really should be in separate topic with focus specifically on that.

[Computersaysno]

Thanks for the Feedback @Bomba

Quote

Information: Those are all good points. But for everything information related there's basically one and only answer on this forum: Kinkoid isn't great at communicating and providing information. That's it. Could be great to have those changes, but it's not a priority compared to everything else.

The category was really just meant for the I in the top right corner but I understand why you would put the other stuff in the Category. The level and the shards probably fit best in a category named Overlay.

Quote

Difficulty: There was a change that affected all champions. It was more noticeable on club champions, because people pay more attention to it. With the introduction of the new battle system Kinkoid changed how girls stats for battle are calculated. And for champion battles that was basically a big drop in their battle power. We don't know if that was intended, but it's hard to expect them to change it until they finish all the changes to the battle system. So we can only wait until they finish it. After that, they promised they will start rebalancing things. And yes, champions should be on the list of those changes and we should remind them about it. But for now we wait.

When exactly did they make those changes ? I have been playing for only half a year now and only recently really gotten into the CC.
While I understand it would be easiest to rebalance everything once all the changes are done and that would be fine if it didn't ruin the balance that much, but from what I have read the changes made quite a big difference in a negative way. Some even stopped playing because of it.
We shouldn't have to wait potentially months for a proper fix instead roughly adjust now and later do a proper rebalance.

Quote

Level Display: This is really more related to how the difficulty got changed and affected other things. For previous levels that difficulty made sense. And that level represented the power of the champion, not the level at which players should be comfortable attacking him. I agree that such change to the level would be more informative, but that again, falls into "Information" category.

I find that hard to believe that it shouldn't represent the level at which players should be comfortable attacking him since the normal Champions don't even have a level value nor a Tier though you could argue that it's the number of times you have defeated him.
Every other game where enemies have a level roughly represent at which level you can fight it.

Quote

Shard Reward Amount: There was a lot of topics in the past which proposed different ways to distribute shards. I think this part should be discussed in a more relevant topic. Either the one which already contains such ideas or just a new topic altogether just for this.

You are right that topic is too controversial. Simply wanted to include it so the list is complete.

[Bomba]

30 minutes ago, Computersaysno said:

When exactly did they make those changes ? I have been playing for only half a year now and only recently really gotten into the CC.
While I understand it would be easiest to rebalance everything once all the changes are done and that would be fine if it didn't ruin the balance that much, but from what I have read the changes made quite a big difference in a negative way. Some even stopped playing because of it.
We shouldn't have to wait potentially months for a proper fix instead roughly adjust now and later do a proper rebalance.

End of July I think. It's a full overhaul of the battle system, so they're applying different changes one by one. I think there's only one yet to be implemented at this point. As for the people who quit. I'm talking about changes to the battle system here. There was a lot of other changes to other parts of the game too.
That one affected how the girl's battle power was calculated, because there was a switch from 3-girl team to a 7-girl team. Those changes also affected the battles with champions, making them more difficult and it was reported by players.
And honestly, champions aren't that big of a problem compared to the rest. The whole rarity system of girls doesn't make sense right now, cause 5star starting and common girls are now stronger than not only 3star epic, but also 3star legendary girls. So yeah, a lot of things to rebalance, but can't start doing it until the overhaul is finished. Plus the whole mechanic of champions is based on the old battle system and doesn't make sense now, so maybe instead of updating or adjusting numbers they will just change how they work entirely.

46 minutes ago, Computersaysno said:

I find that hard to believe that it shouldn't represent the level at which players should be comfortable attacking him since the normal Champions don't even have a level value nor a Tier though you could argue that it's the number of times you have defeated him.
Every other game where enemies have a level roughly represent at which level you can fight it.

That was just my personal opinion. From my perspective, champions should be just strong players. But instead they're weak players with tons of HP. So that level that they show is supposed to be the level of that weak player. It's not exactly like that, but close enough for me to see it that way. So for me it makes sense. 
I mean, their power heavily depends on their type and the poses, so in reality that level doesn't really mean much. So I don't see much difference between the current version and your proposal.

[Computersaysno]

On 10/28/2021 at 7:51 PM, Computersaysno said:

Easiest solution would probably be to not double their damage if the pose doesn't match(there is potentially a bug that sometimes deals double damage even if the pose matches which could make this look even worse)

Just a small Update regarding this feature seems completely broken or replaced with a new one as the CC now reliable just deals double damage on a specific Round regardless if the Pose is matching or not. Last CC always dealt double damage on first and second round, current one on Round 5 (can't say for round 10)

[Bomba]

12 minutes ago, Computersaysno said:

Just a small Update regarding this feature seems completely broken or replaced with a new one as the CC now reliable just deals double damage on a specific Round regardless if the Pose is matching or not. Last CC always dealt double damage on first and second round, current one on Round 5 (can't say for round 10)

What's the pose for round 5? Missionary or Dolphin?
What were the 1st and 2nd poses for the previous CC? Bridge?

Also, I haven't thought about it, but do players have crits against them on different rounds depending on which girl they're trying to get right now? So the same poses could be good for some players and bad for others. That's actually quite a good design. That means not everyone will struggle if the poses are bad. Interesting.

[Computersaysno]

2 minutes ago, Bomba said:

What's the pose for round 5? Missionary or Dolphin?
What were the 1st and 2nd poses for the previous CC? Bridge?

Also, I haven't thought about it, but do players have crits against them on different rounds depending on which girl they're trying to get right now? So the same poses could be good for some players and bad for others. That's actually quite a good design. That means not everyone will struggle if the poses are bad. Interesting.

It's Missionary
Can't even remember my memory is like a sieve. But it can't be related to the pose completely or it would have been on Round 6 and 7 as well.

Player damage still seems to be doubled if the pose is matching.
I don't understand what you are trying to say.

From my point of few this actually seems to be worse since you can quite easily get at least 5 girls that match the poses but now that won't matter as much as you will get more damage meaning you will end up being able to do less rounds

[Bomba]

2 minutes ago, Computersaysno said:

It's Missionary
Can't even remember my memory is like a sieve. But it can't be related to the pose completely or it would have been on Round 6 and 7 as well.

Player damage still seems to be doubled if the pose is matching.
I don't understand what you are trying to say.

From my point of few this actually seems to be worse since you can quite easily get at least 5 girls that match the poses but now that won't matter as much as you will get more damage meaning you will end up being able to do less rounds

For champion battles if the poses match the girl deals double damage. It's true for both player and champion. Which means Chad with Kumiko deals double damage on every Missionary pose. And Chayotte with Blet deals double damage on every Bridge pose.
Maybe you already know that and I just misunderstood what's the problem is.

[Computersaysno]

9 minutes ago, Bomba said:

For champion battles if the poses match the girl deals double damage. It's true for both player and champion. Which means Chad with Kumiko deals double damage on every Missionary pose. And Chayotte with Blet deals double damage on every Bridge pose.
Maybe you already know that and I just misunderstood what's the problem is.

Ahh ok thanks now i fully understand the system. I always forgot to account the girl the champion is with.
Dang the game really has an issue with getting information.