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FinderKeeper
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George already explained things quite well and he's been around twice as long as me. In over two years, I've seen quite a lot of changes, but I didn't know the turnover had been as high in the pre-Noacc era for EN. It's been very stable since I've arrived (and likely before that) on that front. And @Noacc is a rock solid CM and all-around great guy, definitely listening to the community and taking care of it, notably through us mods but also in many other ways. We couldn't dream of a better CM, imho, so the communication issues are definitely elsewhere, Soggy.

In FR it's been a rockier road the past couple of years, but since @Tohru - Kinkoid's arrival a few months back, it improved greatly and steadily; I trust as long as she sticks around FR is in good hands too. There's also @Neven for GH, and if there's a dedicated CM for CXH, I'm not aware of it yet. There's also @Magrat on Discord (and sorry if I forgot anyone else). Overall, getting the CMs' attention, understanding and, often, their support for our feedback isn't a problem at all. They know the game, the meta game, the player experience and the community a lot better than Rosso, and likely any of the devs who are too busy coding to talk to us, let alone read our long discussions.

Here's to Kinkoid's Community Managers: 👍:x

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Something else I feel might not have been discussed enough regarding the upcoming patch. The 8 gem types will take existing spots in virtually anything and everything in the game that gives rewards. Unless this comes with a massive buff to the abysmal post-nerf drop rates of the good stuff especially in PoPs and daily mission rewards (I've been counting since orbs were introduced, and I'm at 303 EPx1 orbs in 1,857 daily missions, for instance, and over 75% of those dropped before the past 6 months or so), then this will make other precious resources even more scarce. I don't remember who right now, but someone mentioned the idea of one place giving tons of all gem types, but I very strongly doubt that. I hope the PoV (Path of Valor) will be a real positive game-changer, contrary to the Pantheon's Stairway which barely adds anything of value to the game (except for the 5 girls we'll collect within the upcoming year, in part thanks to our level 750 girls who should give us a shot at going further than the wall players who rushed hit around or before level 1000). But yeah, re-purposing tickets would have made so much more sense than creating more and more different in-game currencies that compete with one another for already scarce reward spots with very low drop rates.

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7 hours ago, Philbert said:

@DvDivXXX Out of curiosity, if I wanted to create a thread called "Petition to Remove Awakening/Gems from the Game" what part of the forum would be most appropriate make the post. Pre-emptively asking for a friend. Sorry if this post is clogging up the tread.

To be brutally honest, nowhere. Petitions and polls don't work well for this type of topic, and we already have a really active and substantial thread on this topic. I strongly recommend NOT making a dupe thread just to add a poll that won't add anything meaningful to this here thread. I can already tell you the result: 90-ish% of players will vote for whatever option is closer to "I hate it, please reconsider", and that message is already loud and clear throughout this here thread (and Discord), with tons of specific points and discussion as well.
(Technically, just so you know, the relevant sub-forum for this would be "Feedback", but again please don't do that in this case). I hope this helps.

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17 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

turnover had been as high in the pre-Noacc era for EN

Not all 8 are pre-Noacc. Some of the various foreign language CMs have simply been more active in EN than others. Minimal forum, but the odd discussion on Discord.

 

 

I'm not optimistic about the quality, but new build going onto the test server shortly.

image.png

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On 11/13/2021 at 12:08 AM, FinderKeeper said:

Chat put Rosso under a lot of personal pressure. I'm trying to avoid this here. Don't give in to the dark side.

It's unavoidably personal because it's clear that this is a "the fish rots from the head" situation and only removing Rosso from any and all game-related decision-making processes can possibly serve to save Kinkoid from itself at this point.

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Huh, and I recall seeing shal as one of the more reasonable forum members...

I'm getting the implication that this Rosso individual is behind all of the negatively recieved updates and hence the attacks on him? I'm missing some info so please dont take my guesses the wrong way, I'm just observing that the last 6 months there's been A LOT of negative updates to this game and that this is incredibly divisive between prominent community members, and outright alienating and pissing off the majority of the playerbase, and this is a very bad sign. 
If they have any sense left, they'll read the room and the feedback and reconsider their bad ideas, but if I were to guess from their past mistakes, that's not gonna happen... sad :(

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11 minutes ago, SomeNobody said:

Huh, and I recall seeing shal as one of the more reasonable forum members...

I'm getting the implication that this Rosso individual is behind all of the negatively recieved updates and hence the attacks on him? I'm missing some info so please dont take my guesses the wrong way, I'm just observing that the last 6 months there's been A LOT of negative updates to this game and that this is incredibly divisive between prominent community members, and outright alienating and pissing off the majority of the playerbase, and this is a very bad sign. 
If they have any sense left, they'll read the room and the feedback and reconsider their bad ideas, but if I were to guess from their past mistakes, that's not gonna happen... sad :(

He's the creative mind behind the original vision of HH and may or may not still be the majority owner of Kinkoid and/or its parent company Gaming Adult. He freely admitted on Discord that his current modus operandi is to play a lot of other games and try to bring features that catch his eye there into Kinkoid's games. Entirely optional in that approach: Any sort of concern for how the latest addition will interact with everything that already exists in the game.

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17 minutes ago, _shal_ said:

He's the creative mind behind the original vision of HH and may or may not still be the majority owner of Kinkoid and/or its parent company Gaming Adult. He freely admitted on Discord that his current modus operandi is to play a lot of other games and try to bring features that catch his eye there into Kinkoid's games. Entirely optional in that approach: Any sort of concern for how the latest addition will interact with everything that already exists in the game.

Holy shit what a terrible approach... Now I understand all the blowback.
Not that this means that it's okay to attack him as a person or anything of that sort, I'm just critiquing that horrendous approach to game design.

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1 hour ago, _shal_ said:

He freely admitted on Discord that his current modus operandi is to play a lot of other games and try to bring features that catch his eye there into Kinkoid's games.

That matches rather well with my impression that someone is measuring the quality of this game as being equivalent to the length of the feature list.

Edited to add:
It is admittedly an easy trap to fall into, especially for a self-taught game designer. In the early years of a game, adding features is often a good thing, and it helps keep the game interesting. And so it’s easy to keep doing the same thing that worked in the past, even though it will become detrimental at some point.

Edited by bohammettuz
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On 11/13/2021 at 12:29 AM, FinderKeeper said:

Here's another interesting bit. It's unrelated but I'll put it in this thread to avoid spreading drama elsewhere. About the removal of Dating Tokens and how haphazard things have been in the recent months.

xZbus61.png

Incidentally, for full context, this is what prompted that comment:

image.thumb.png.37521122cfbc33e558c62df5fe64d51b.png

image.thumb.png.6b60bf4ca011b4c9678c2188c11daafb.png

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Wow, what a heated discussion. Not sure what this is about though. In summer it was announced that they were planning to remake the game and started changing the game in that direction. And these gems only the first step. I mean, look at this:

gems1.jpg.5e6bea4e65837b49e4589a5d6087ae5e.jpg

We will have the "Daily Goals" which I presume would be the analog of daily missions in many other games, like "Win against bosses 20 times"; "Fight against Champions 20 times"; etc and other types of daily missions which they wanted to implement and already tested out during PoA.
Next one is "Path of Valor" which I presume is the analog of the daily dungeon or tower in other games, where we will have 24 hours to reach the highest floor we can. And we will receive the reward according to the highest floor we reached.

I mean, we already talked about it. Like 1.5 years ago when they introduced PoA and where it would lead us. And here we are. So why are you guys surprised?

And honestly, I think we need to thank them that these gems are the only resource. Usually in the games with similar mechanic they use 2 resources for upgrades: One for the Type or Element, which is gems in our case and you need a lot of them. And the other resources is based on rarity and you need just a few of them but they're harder to obtain to compensate for that. Let's call them "keys". I dunno, maybe they're "keys" to the girls hearts or something. So usually you would get few of those "keys" from daily activities. Which in our case would be the future features of "Daily Goals"  and "Path of Valor". So, honestly, I expect the addition of such "key"s in the future. Either as a secondary resources for upgrades or the main resources along with affection for increasing stars. Or as a main resource for upgrading the upcoming individual abilities of girls.

I mean, that's the whole upgrade mechanic of every other game with gacha mechanic out there. And with this update I don't see why Kinkoid wouldn't implement other sides of this feature. It's already everywhere and everyone is familiar with it. 

So the only thing that's wrong here in my opinion is that everyone is put in the same situation. The player of 450+ level who has tons of girls and a newbie with just 150 level who started to play less than a month ago. A player of higher level would need more of that resource in order to upgrade his girls, but the income of gems seems to not depend on level. Maybe that's compensated by the fact that you retain the levels you already have on girls, but I think a supplementary one-time gift of gems would be a very good addition to the upcoming change. They can even add tutorial where they show you how to use those gems.

And if someone's confused about my opinion about the upcoming change: I don't like it. I entered this game because it was different. You didn't need to sit here every day and every girl in the game could be obtained if you play long enough. Now you have tons of daily activities which you need to finish to get the needed resources. And also, for the past 1.5 years we now have exclusive girls that you can no longer obtain. So yeah, now it's not so different from thousands of other similar games. And honestly, those games do this stuff better.

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3 minutes ago, Bomba said:

Wow, what a heated discussion. Not sure what this is about though. In summer it was announced that they were planning to remake the game and started changing the game in that direction. And these gems only the first step. I mean, look at this:

gems1.jpg.5e6bea4e65837b49e4589a5d6087ae5e.jpg

We will have the "Daily Goals" which I presume would be the analog of daily missions in many other games, like "Win against bosses 20 times"; "Fight against Champions 20 times"; etc and other types of daily missions which they wanted to implement and already tested out during PoA.
Next one is "Path of Valor" which I presume is the analog of the daily dungeon or tower in other games, where we will have 24 hours to reach the highest floor we can. And we will receive the reward according to the highest floor we reached.

I mean, we already talked about it. Like 1.5 years ago when they introduced PoA and where it would lead us. And here we are. So why are you guys surprised?

And honestly, I think we need to thank them that these gems are the only resource. Usually in the games with similar mechanic they use 2 resources for upgrades: One for the Type or Element, which is gems in our case and you need a lot of them. And the other resources is based on rarity and you need just a few of them but they're harder to obtain to compensate for that. Let's call them "keys". I dunno, maybe they're "keys" to the girls hearts or something. So usually you would get few of those "keys" from daily activities. Which in our case would be the future features of "Daily Goals"  and "Path of Valor". So, honestly, I expect the addition of such "key"s in the future. Either as a secondary resources for upgrades or the main resources along with affection for increasing stars. Or as a main resource for upgrading the upcoming individual abilities of girls.

I mean, that's the whole upgrade mechanic of every other game with gacha mechanic out there. And with this update I don't see why Kinkoid wouldn't implement other sides of this feature. It's already everywhere and everyone is familiar with it. 

So the only thing that's wrong here in my opinion is that everyone is put in the same situation. The player of 450+ level who has tons of girls and a newbie with just 150 level who started to play less than a month ago. A player of higher level would need more of that resource in order to upgrade his girls, but the income of gems seems to not depend on level. Maybe that's compensated by the fact that you retain the levels you already have on girls, but I think a supplementary one-time gift of gems would be a very good addition to the upcoming change. They can even add tutorial where they show you how to use those gems.

Is your argument that we arent getting fucked by a 30 inch dildo and thus this isnt that bad? I mean yes, it's not AS bad as getting fucked by a 30 inch dildo, but we're still being fucked by a 25 inch dildo, and I'd rather we dont get fucked at all!

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5 minutes ago, Bomba said:

And honestly, I think we need to thank them that these gems are the only resource.

They aren't done with updates yet. We have yet to get the individual girl skills, which also require a unique currency source to upgrade. These were indicated in the Q&A at the start of BDSM

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Just now, _shal_ said:

Incidentally, for full context, this is what prompted that comment:

image.thumb.png.37521122cfbc33e558c62df5fe64d51b.png

image.thumb.png.6b60bf4ca011b4c9678c2188c11daafb.png

Interesting. It almost sounds like someone was fired for coming up with dating tokens, but who knows? It's just interesting he talked about people being fired in response to your argument.

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10 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

They aren't done with updates yet. We have yet to get the individual girl skills, which also require a unique currency source to upgrade. These were indicated in the Q&A at the start of BDSM

Yep. That's what I'm talking about. I'm just not sure how they'll do it. They can just implement the unlock of those abilities in the XP or Affection section. Like, the stars unlock the skill and higher levels of XP unlock the higher numbers on that skill.

10 minutes ago, SomeNobody said:

Is your argument that we arent getting fucked by a 30 inch dildo and thus this isnt that bad? I mean yes, it's not AS bad as getting fucked by a 30 inch dildo, but we're still being fucked by a 25 inch dildo, and I'd rather we dont get fucked at all!

I probably didn't highlight it properly, but as it says there in the announcement we will have 2 more features - "Daily Goals" and "Path of Valor". So I presume the amount of gems we will receive from them will increase the current low number of gems received from other features. so it's not as bad. In similar games those daily features are the main source if such resource.

Edit: Also, I'm just saying that it's a bit late to panic about this feature. They said they will do it and they're just doing exactly that.

Edited by Bomba
Edit: Edit.
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9 minutes ago, Bomba said:

Yep. That's what I'm talking about. I'm just not sure how they'll do it. They can just implement the unlock of those abilities in the XP or Affection section. Like, the stars unlock the skill and higher levels of XP unlock the higher numbers on that skill.

Completely independent based on the preview mockups.

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17 hours ago, FinderKeeper said:

Hey. I was going to put it in a similar way.

I was trying to look at this and along the way try to avoid saying "I've seen it coming" (I just did...) and epithets like "unbalanced", "even less fair", "sluggish", "gamebreaking", "lacking foresight", etc. (Umhm)

This wednesday/thursday it will become a different game. Every game system that relies on collection of girls will need to be approached in a new way. It's not that it's gamebreaking on it own - like servers will stop working. (well scratch that! we know something is bound to break! They will! xD) If we imagine an entirely new playerbase without existing players, the game will look playable to them.

It's just that it may stop being recognizable to us. And it's huge.

I fully agree that even casual majority will be pissed, and sizeable part of them might leave. Probably will so. And from Rosso's announcement we know that it will take them time to make adjustments. 

So, in the coming week or two I think I will try to play this as if no changes were made yet. I'm going to try to ease myself into it by waiting for their adjustments. Maybe push girls to lvl500. (I already upgraded my mythics, 5*, and 50 starter/commons to 451. Yeah, I know, priviledged veteran. Sorry). I'll accumulate gems, get a feel of them on a couple of girls. We'll see.

Incoming shitstorm is on the horizon. :/

I am one of those Players, and as I posted somewhere else, I am (or rather it will be was) a monthly card buyer, along with also a fair to decent number of Packages on a monthly basis, and they won't be getting anymore money from me.

 

I  sent them a "reply" on the one Ticket I had put in, about the price symbols changes, telling them I would be leaving too, along with this latest change being the "straw that broke the camel's back",  being the reason  why.

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I don´t know if it´s a bug or the already mentioned change but I tried to unlock several girls from 200 to 250 on the ptr and the cost was exactly zero gems. Don´t know what this means yet but maybe there´s a graceperiod where you can unlock to a certain level. The level I unlocked to is already higher than my playerlevel. Just as an info^^

edit: the everchanging places of power (the lower ones) now also seem to give gems of other colors that are usually more constrained as a possible reward. If this is good or bad depends on personal opinion, but this way it might be easier to get some of these gems you usually only get through season pass etc

Edited by Saradis
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After drinking on the weekend, I still got to the test and tried to study what they came up with.

Impressions, of course, are purely negative - everything is so crude and unfinished that at the time to grab his head in horror. Starting from the fact that there is not even a separate game screen where you can see how many crystals of each type you have. It is necessary to climb into the harem, wait a couple of minutes for it to load, then select the girl of the desired type and only there you can see the quantity. This is very inconvenient. And this is just one example of the inconvenience of the interface, there is still a lot to write. The bottom line is that all these elements had to be introduced together by reworking the harem and market sections, immediately creating a user-friendly interface for working with the elements, and not pushing crooked crutches into outdated game pages.

I also came to unexpected conclusions while trying to assemble a new team after the blessing change. Awakening essentially negates previous game updates such as blessings and elements. The reason is simple - there was a way to strengthen the player's team by masimizing the level of only 7 girls and creating a universal team from them. Now it is still impossible to say how much better such a team will be than one matched with the blessing and taking into account the element of the opposing team, but absolutely such a team will be much more convenient in terms of gameplay - there is no need to spend time on weekly setting up the blessing and constant changing teams for the enemy's element. and it will completely save you a few hours a week, and this is a very serious argument.

Personally, I am tempted to assemble such a team to see what will come of it, besides the beauty of this idea is that you can collect without picking up an "element for a girl", but on the contrary choosing a "girl for an element", because it is already clear that it will be much easier to get one type of crystals than another. Yes, collecting a dream team sounds like an interesting game challenge and a new experience. But personally, I will not accept it for one simple reason, because I have already been taught and I know how it will end - when, after many months of effort and spending, you assemble a team of mythical girls of level 750 and are ready to reap the fruits of your efforts, then the developers will dig deeper into their noses and at the command of their left heel they will decide to make another "sudden update" which will nullify all your efforts. And you will be given a bonus code for 10 energy and three green orbs as a consolation. From all the generosity of the soul. As their deepest apology. (sarcasm, sarcasm ...)

Okay, wait and see how it ends. The size of the ass that is approaching the game seems to me so big that it even became interesting not so much the game itself, but rather I want to know how it all ends in the end. And according to tradition, I will leave at the end one more stupid picture. "Update is coming"

wednesday.gif.b8182fe97de12be01aa74715fa7528b2.gif

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9 minutes ago, Solion said:

I also came to unexpected conclusions while trying to assemble a new team after the blessing change. Awakening essentially negates previous game updates such as blessings and elements. The reason is simple - there was a way to strengthen the player's team by masimizing the level of only 7 girls and creating a universal team from them.

 

This won´t work because at least until yesterday you needed a certain amount of girls of a specific level to level them up more, greeting me trying to level up a girl further with a message that was along the line of "you need 17 more girls at level 250 to upgrade further"

So you need to upgrade at least a certain amount of girls that is larger than 7 to follow this tactic, while I still agree with you on the general term here. Level will most likely be more important than following the buffs and debuffs for a while, just wanted to clarify on this possible misconception^^

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24 minutes ago, Saradis said:

I don´t know if it´s a bug or the already mentioned change but I tried to unlock several girls from 200 to 250 on the ptr and the cost was exactly zero gems. Don´t know what this means yet but maybe there´s a graceperiod where you can unlock to a certain level. The level I unlocked to is already higher than my playerlevel. Just as an info^^

if you try to unlock the higher bracket- there will be cost. Can someone check if the player is let's say lvl 300+ the awakening of girls from 250 to 300 is free?

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22 minutes ago, Saradis said:

This won´t work because at least until yesterday you needed a certain amount of girls of a specific level to level them up more, greeting me trying to level up a girl further with a message that was along the line of "you need 17 more girls at level 250 to upgrade further"

So you need to upgrade at least a certain amount of girls that is larger than 7 to follow this tactic, while I still agree with you on the general term here. Level will most likely be more important than following the buffs and debuffs for a while, just wanted to clarify on this possible misconception^^

I saw the information about the need to improve a certain number of girls and took note of it. As indicated, this is only a slight difficulty and not an insurmountable obstacle.
At level 700, only 50 girls are needed to open 750, and even fewer below. We pump 43 girls of common rarity and 7 mythical or legendary ones. This will also not be very fast, but it seems to me that it can be done in a few months, especially if you purposefully strive for this. Another thing is that, as I already wrote, if such a meta game turns out to be relevant and convenient, it will definitely be nerfed. "The player should not be happy, he should suffer" - this is the principle of the creators of the game, for the last six months it is absolutely certain.

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Just now, Solion said:

Another thing is that, as I already wrote, if such a meta game turns out to be relevant and convenient, it will definitely be nerfed.

Why form a strategy and work towards a goal when you know the reward will be suddenly pulled away from you just as you are about to reach it?

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If people are interested in these gem buffs that rosso has mentioned for today, here they are

you get 1 gem for completing season or league fights

5 gems in the remaining 6 places of power that you can't upgrade

and 200 to 500 gems for side quests wich you usually gain 1 a month off and wich new players usually won't get because they are to focussed with the story first. and especially the big ones take a hell lot of time to complete. even if you had all available you might only have enough for 2 - 4 upgrades for a single lvl 400 + legendary girl lvl 50 cap.

It ain't much sadly worse case than I imagined, they didn't touch the already existing gem gains. for the patch to be barable even a 10x increase was not enough but this is quite the tiny amount sadly

overall pitifull amounts if you'd ask me

lvl 250 cap also will give the long time players a huge advantage over everyone else so there will be a massive wall, plus future girls will probably be worthless unless your going to spend a ton of gems wich there are way to few off.

It's better than starting at 50 but it's rough

 

 

gem.png

Edited by Mighty wander
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55 minutes ago, isonitro said:

Why form a strategy and work towards a goal when you know the reward will be suddenly pulled away from you just as you are about to reach it?

Well, specifically, my insidious plan is to push some kind of naive young man to this experiment, and then, depending on the result, if everything fails, say "Well, I told you so!" But if all of a sudden everything turns out well, then you can always say "he followed my wise advice and that is the only reason he achieves success."

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