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4 minutes ago, dgxg said:

Adding those gems everywhere as rewards, and by doing so lowering chances for rewards players actually wish for (like during event shards from villans when u don't have much time) is like stabing us in our backs.

Mod Hat: Please provide proof of this. Adding extra rewards doesn't mean that the shard drops have to reduce. Please don't state something like this without hard data.

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Just now, GeorgeMTO said:

Mod Hat: Please provide proof of this. Adding extra rewards doesn't mean that the shard drops have to reduce. Please don't state something like this without hard data.

I didn't written anything without data, it's kinda logical:

 

gem1.png.bcb5e5fdad74da777b91d4b48679d43c.png

This one is from normal server - 3 rewards.

 

gem2.png.f39fbaaebd6a14f1f99bd55dcb2e947a.png

This one is from test - 5 rewards.

 

So with 3 rewards - chances are 33% for new girl shards.

With 5 it's 25% - no matter how u look at this thats 8% chances lower then original.

 

Listen im not trying to be a dick here, im just joining this conversation, with hope that what we write here will reach devs, and in future we can hope for something acceptable.

 

Peace and love bro! ❤️

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Just now, dgxg said:

So with 3 rewards - chances are 33% for new girl shards.

With 5 it's 25% - no matter how u look at this thats 8% chances lower then original.

That's assuming all rewards have equal chances. Data collected by players has indicated that isn't the case.

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1 minute ago, MCP said:

That's assuming all rewards have equal chances. Data collected by players has indicated that isn't the case.

Yeah i read about that, still adding extra rewards lower those chances - thats my point.

Edited by dgxg
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@dgxg Unfortunately, you've misunderstood how drops work in this game. Not every item has an equal drop chance. Imagine it more like a 6 sided dice. If you roll a 1, 2, 3 or 4, you get money. If you roll a 5, you get a ticket. If you roll a 6, you get girl shards. When they add in gems, it'll replace the result for 3 and 4. You'll get shards the same amount of times you did before, but less money, because those drops are replaced.

Now I also do not know this to be fact, hence my request for you to have data. It might reduce them, it might not. At this point in time, noone has provided any evidence either way (understandable since people are busy doing other prep/testing work). I figure people will start a new measurement in the drop rates once this patch becomes live, but it'll likely still take a couple of months to get enough data for various event types (and/or regular boss girls).

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6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

One QoL thing not mentioned yet: it's very inconvenient that the awakening popup sends you back to the main menu every time, instead of leaving you where you are so you can keep on giving books to the girl you're leveling up. It's especially clunky that you still see and have to click the awakening popup 5 times while upgrading a girl from 1 to 250, even though that does nothing.

Oh, god, I hadn't considered the UI goat rope. <sigh> Very little frustrates me more than janky UI design.  It makes me not want to click things.  Maybe I'll skate by without having to interact with any of it before it's fixed.  There's so much already that pulls my pin, notably that if you click on a member of your fight team, it sends you to the fight team editor rather than to that girl in your harem, or to the market with her preselected.  That one gets to me A LOT.  I don't bother to level max fight team members. Why?  Because it's asspain.

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1 minute ago, GeorgeMTO said:

@dgxg Unfortunately, you're misunderstood how drops work in this game. Not every item has an equal drop chance. Imagine it more like a 6 sided dice. If you roll a 1, 2, 3 or 4, you get money. If you roll a 5, you get a ticket. If you roll a 6, you get girl shards. When they add in gems, it'll replace the result for 3 and 4. You'll get shards the same amount of times you did before, but less money, because those drops are replaced.

Now I also do not know this to be fact, hence my request for you to have data. It might reduce them, it might not. At this point in time, noone has provided any evidence either way (understandable since people are busy doing other prep/testing work). I figure people will start a new measurement in the drop rates once this patch becomes live, but it'll likely still take a couple of months to get enough data for various event types (and/or regular boss girls).

I can't deliver this kind of data (obviously it takes time) it kinda feels that will be the case.

Since all this started i was saving pachinko orbs for both normal and test servers - im gonna try those tommorow and post my results here.

Actually you should be happy a random, new player got immersed in game enough to make forum account and discuss changes in game - there's a hope this fella might stick around long enough for KK to gain profit.

 

Make love, not warcraft! ❤️

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1 minute ago, dgxg said:

I can't deliver this kind of data (obviously it takes time) it kinda feels that will be the case.

Since all this started i was saving pachinko orbs for both normal and test servers - im gonna try those tommorow and post my results here.

Actually you should be happy a random, new player got immersed in game enough to make forum account and discuss changes in game - there's a hope this fella might stick around long enough for KK to gain profit.

 

Make love, not warcraft! ❤️

You're free to have whatever feelings you like, just don't state them as facts without evidence to back it up.

I don't work for Kinkoid, I'm just another random player who has some power to keep the forum clean. I'm never happy when there's someone posting baseless made up information (yes, this means I'm basically never happy). Your initial forum actions have not been good, please don't make them worse by refusing to accept being corrected.

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Il y a 4 heures, Yamiray a dit :

Gem system Pros and Cons from what I can tell from the test server

Pros
I can't find any except that if you already have high level girls there not being sent back to 50, at least not from what I can tell on test server

Cons
Its going to cripple the progression in the follow areas:
-Champions
-Club Champions
-Places of Powers
-Legendary Contests day 4 Harem-building "Give xp to the girls" and "Level up a girl"(and since there are now some people at max level I don't know how they even do day 1 so that would take 2 days out on them)
-the hole point of the Blessings system
Getting the gems does not seem balanced:
-missions and Trolls has Playful & Eccentric gems
-Contests has Exhibitionist & Submissive gems
-Places of Power may have them all little hard to tell
-Mythic and Epic Pachinko (would have been better on Great) has all

You already need xp to level why put a lock in place to make that even harder.

In the pros, you can now have girls with higher level than yours.

It's easier to win against a highest level opponent with that (levels are not the only factor in order to be a tough opponent, but that's not nothing either). And the xp contests will probably be easier than you think, because if you have the gems (that's a bif if, but not too big, according to me) it will always be possible to gain xp, and compete. With maxed girls you can't compete. I agree it's unlikely to have all your girls at max at high levels. But it happens at low level, maybe there are too many high levels in this topic, and too few low levels. For champions (especially club champions, who stay a month), it will probably be easier too. With the gems (and even without until level 250) you can train the fighting girls more easily if there's no limit than if the player's level is the limit.

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13 minutes ago, Pelinor said:

Wait... The yemen reward is cut in half with gem introduction? This on top of the 90% nerf of the Great Pachinko? That doesn't make any sense imho.

You appear to have forgotten that the ymen reward is based on the level of the boss. Likely that they don't have the boss on the test server at the same level.

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il y a une heure, Pelinor a dit :

Wait... The yemen reward is cut in half with gem introduction? This on top of the 90% nerf of the Great Pachinko? That doesn't make any sense imho.

And you don't gain yemens anymore in daily missions. It's why I agree that rewards probably will be rarer with this patch. That's right it's not a mathematical obligation to have smaller drop rates if there is more different rewards, but that's a guess, after seeing neighboring features, that it will happens in this case.

Apart, nobody said the nerf of the great pachinko is the only solution KK found in order to cut the yemen's flow, so I'm not sure it's behind us. 

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12 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

You appear to have forgotten that the ymen reward is based on the level of the boss. Likely that they don't have the boss on the test server at the same level.

I have not forgotten anything @GeorgeMTO@dgxg posted a screen shot comparison and I was commenting on said comparison. If the boss levels were different then it should have been mentioned so we would know if we are looking at apples to apples or apples to oranges. Especially with back-to-back game changing patches taking place.

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2 minutes ago, Pelinor said:

I have not forgotten anything @GeorgeMTO@dgxg posted a screen shot comparison and I was commenting on said comparison. If the boss levels were different then it should have been mentioned so we would know if we are looking at apples to apples or apples to oranges. Especially with back-to-back game changing patches taking place.

It wasn't revelant for drop rate topic, but u are right, next time i will give more data so nobody will be confused.

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2 minutes ago, Pelinor said:

I have anything @GeorgeMTO. @dgxg posted a screen shot comparison and I was commenting on said comparison. If the boss levels were different then it should have been mentioned so we would know if we are looking at apples to apples or apples to oranges. Especially with back-to-back game changing patches taking place.

No, you could have asked if they were the same. There's been no change in ymen value from bosses on the test server. They're a new user who was revealing ignorance of how the game functions in the post you're referring to, so you should have questioned it rather than assuming all relevant info would be provided. But I guess you forgot that.

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3 hours ago, dgxg said:

Adding those gems everywhere as rewards, and by doing so lowering chances for rewards players actually wish for (like during event shards from villans when u don't have much time) is like stabing us in our backs.

3 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Mod Hat: Please provide proof of this. Adding extra rewards doesn't mean that the shard drops have to reduce. Please don't state something like this without hard data.

I agree that the gems won't affect shard drop with villains but @dgxg isn't wrong about lowering chances for rewards that players want, just not with villains. Gems have replaced MP orbs and x10 GP orbs on some PoP. Gems have also replaced combativity on daily contest rewards. And who knows what they will replace in next PoA and Seasons.

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I'm a level 434 Nutaku player, making an account to sound off on this issue.

First, I'd like to thank the devs for actually trying to tweak the system before it goes live. Allowing girls to reach level 250 without spending gems is a change in the right direction, but I fear that it doesn't go for enough. It will alleviate some of the issues for lower-level players, but for a high-level player such as myself it changes nothing. Higher-level players are still getting an enormous head-start worth hundreds of thousands of gems due to their existing harem levels, and the higher the player level the bigger the advantage. I will likely never end up spending gems on new girls, since I already have an enormous harem with over 100 girls above level 401. Why would I spend the gems to upgrade a new girl from level 250 when I have dozens of 5-star legendaries at level 450 to upgrade? Any new girl I obtain will be stuck at level 250 indefinitely, and this is too weak to be useful in champion drafts or PVP at my level. I repeat: any girl released after November 18th will be useless to me in PVP.

This should be alarming to Kinkoid, because Mythic Days and Legendary Days are attractive in spite of their ultra-low drop rates due to the high PVP value of the girls available during those events. If they are no longer useful in PVP for high-level players then participation rates could plummet, along with all the purchases of combativity that go with it. 

I feel going with level 250 is a half-measure that won't solve the problem. The solution is to allow girls to reach level 500 without paying gems. This would ensure that girls that are currently in my harem at a high level have no advantages over new ones introduced in the future, so next month's Mythic Days and Legendary Days will still be valuable to me and everyone else. It means lower-level players are not at a disadvantage to higher-level players. On this Thursday level 451 or higher players will be able to upgrade their existing harem to level 500 with no gem payment; everyone should be able to do this, not just those above level 450. This will make leagues fairer, since everyone will be on a level playing field. Champions will be fine, since no one will be at a disadvantage relative to the current situation. This would also keep new characters relevant in PVP, as a level 500 girl with strong blessings could be useful in PVP even without spending gems!

I think this would be a win-win for everyone. Players might actually like this patch since anyone below level 500 would get a higher level cap for free, everyone is treated fairly regardless of their current level, and gems would only apply to the new higher level cap above level 500. For Kinkoid this means that Legendary Days and Mythic Days remain as attractive events, and gems are still going to be very attractive to exceed level 500.

Edited by Attirm
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Il y a 2 heures, Attirm a dit :

Allowing girls to reach level 250 without spending gems is a change in the right direction, but I fear that it doesn't go for enough. It will alleviate some of the issues for lower-level players, but for a high-level player such as myself it changes nothing.

Imagine if you were level 251 (or worse, 250...). You are happy for the future, but sad to be the first in the line in a few hours, and pay thousands of gems for levelling your girls that cannot reach due level on time. Except if you cancel the whole feature, it's impossible to have what was before. 

Il y a 2 heures, Attirm a dit :

Higher-level players are still getting an enormous head-start worth hundreds of thousands of gems due to their existing harem levels, and the higher the player level the bigger the advantage. I will likely never end up spending gems on new girls, since I already have an enormous harem with over 100 girls above level 401.

If I may, gems will perhaps be very much frequent than the raw shortage everyone is speaking about. In fact I hope so. At the beginning there will be shortage (except if KK suddenly give us a code for x thousands gems in each color, but I would be surprised if it happens, that's not a bug here), because certain gems are obtained in features that don't exist yet. But this shortage  is temporary. Obviously, if you have tons of girls, you will not be able to max them all. But you probably can't either now. And as low level girls need less gems to level up, I believe you will not always level up the highest levels, but the most useful ones at the moment you will need them (that's different, because of the blessings, and probably other future features).

Il y a 2 heures, Attirm a dit :

I feel going with level 250 is a half-measure that won't solve the problem. The solution is to allow girls to reach level 500 without paying gems.

First I can't imagine Kinkoid saying "ok we were wrong, we abandon all the stuff now". I suppose they do this change for a reason, even if I don't know the reason. And, more important, on the principle, what's the difference between 250 and 500, for the beginning of using gems ? 500 is no more the maximum level for your girls (it looks like it's more than 700), so why not 550 or 600 ? It's different for you (and numbers of other players) if it's 500, I understand, but that's all. If you want a feature who has no impact on the game, I think it's the same of wanting to cancel the feature.

Edited by Kaitana
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I've decided to sit on the sidelines for a few days before weighing in on the new issue, that being the current build on the test server...

 

...gotta say, I'm feeling rather fucked sitting around level 230...

 

That said, I may as well see this as a challenge and make the best of it (for now).  All in all, I will leave you with the words of a wise man, I hope they will give you strength in these troubled times.

 

 

1edaaab4884123539624c050b9dc8d84a508161b790766dc6629e8c30b64271e.jpg

Edited by M7IN
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7 hours ago, Kaitana said:

In the pros, you can now have girls with higher level than yours.

It's easier to win against a highest level opponent with that (levels are not the only factor in order to be a tough opponent, but that's not nothing either). And the xp contests will probably be easier than you think, because if you have the gems (that's a bif if, but not too big, according to me) it will always be possible to gain xp, and compete. With maxed girls you can't compete. I agree it's unlikely to have all your girls at max at high levels. But it happens at low level, maybe there are too many high levels in this topic, and too few low levels. For champions (especially club champions, who stay a month), it will probably be easier too. With the gems (and even without until level 250) you can train the fighting girls more easily if there's no limit than if the player's level is the limit.

Issue for champions is not level completely, its level + harem size. if you only have 10 girls it would be easy to keep them all high. but for those of us with 600+ in our harem since Champions picks at random who you get to use, unless all of them are high its hard to get a good line up. and PoP unless you don't mind it taking much longer the 7 hr to complete each the more high level girls you have the better.

But yes if you have the resources being able to pass your own level cap would be a plus. But not sure how many low levels would be able to take advantage of that. It took me years before I was at a point that I was making more then I could spend and that was back when there was not as much happening each month. 

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5 minutes ago, 430i said:

I skimmed over the thread and have one question about the awakenings. Assuming I am level 301+, is the 300-350 awakening available per default for all girls, or only for the ones that are 301+?

Only girls level 301 or above will be unlockable up to 350, for every other girl you have to spend gems starting 250. So you better upgrade as many girls as possible to 301, starting with mythic and 5 star legendary since they´re most expensive gemwise^^

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1 hour ago, Kaitana said:

If I may, gems will perhaps be very much frequent than the raw shortage everyone is speaking about. In fact I hope so. At the beginning there will be shortage (except if KK suddenly give us a code for x thousands gems in each color, but I would be surprised if it happens, that's not a bug here), because certain gems are obtained in features that don't exist yet. But this shortage  is temporary. Obviously, if you have tons of girls, you will not be able to max them all. But you probably can't either now. And as low level girls need less gems to level up, I believe you will not always level up the highest levels, but the most useful ones at the moment you will need them (that's different, because of the blessings, and probably other future features).

Perhaps this might be the case for a lower-level player, but for a high-level player like myself this just doesn't work out. I have 42 5-star legendary girls in my harem that are above level 401. I've already got a plethora of high-level characters to benefit from blessings. In the future, it will cost me 1120 gems to take a new legendary girl up to level 450 to match them. For that price I could promote two of my current level 450's to level 500 instead, and start building a permanent advantage for myself. 

If gems really will be plentiful in the long-term as you predict, then it will only take me a few months for me to get dozens of legendaries up to level 600. For every new awakening threshold, I need to awaken new characters to even higher levels for them to be competitive. Yes, a +40% blessed girl awakened to level 500 will be a nice improvement over a level 600 unblessed girl, but I could have awoken two of my level 550's up to level 600 for the same price, which will give me a big advantage every time they're blessed.

I don't think having level 500 as the default level cap for girls would be abandoning the new system. It will mean it will take slightly longer before low-level players encounter it, but once you hit the level limit you're going to want to exceed it to get stronger. If you care about advancing in leagues, you're going to need to interact with this system eventually.

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il y a 40 minutes, Yamiray a dit :

Issue for champions is not level completely, its level + harem size. if you only have 10 girls it would be easy to keep them all high. but for those of us with 600+ in our harem since Champions picks at random who you get to use, unless all of them are high its hard to get a good line up.

Yes. But when your team is done against a champion, you see the girls in the team. Then you can level up these girls, and be stronger against this champions. According to me, it has to be counted in pros.

il y a 40 minutes, Yamiray a dit :

and PoP unless you don't mind it taking much longer the 7 hr to complete each the more high level girls you have the better.

I don't understand why. You don't have to max your girls in order to wait no more than 7 hours. Especially in the case of players who have big harems like you, all the girls are not "working", and you just have to put two or three (or more, that's not a problem you have plenty...) low level instead of one high level. The result is the same, except you don't have to pay for levels.

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