game economy Playing ALL Events Without Real-Money: Who Can Still Achieve That, Why and How?

[holymolly]

On 1/4/2022 at 10:25 AM, blaa said:

players who care (about pvp) will still go for her, eventually they can upgrade her [Mythic Lenaëlle], but you never know when and how she will come back

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21 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

No. Only those who are either VIP paying customers and/or were in the right place at the right time during the couple of years where having an old account and playing decently in D3 gave you mountains of resources every week. Those of us who compete seriously but have neither of those in-game super-powers can't afford MD every month, not unless we're okay with giving up on PoV and/or PoA, which would be a big mistake (at least until we're Level 500 too).

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20 hours ago, Xemnas said:

That is what i was thinking to do, but it feel a mistake to me too. Unfortunately it is better to invest in the Pov atm, just for that exp Also in the Poa for the orbs and the "guaranteed girls in the classic".

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19 hours ago, blaa said:

yeah, not sure about that, so far i still have a small nuban increase per month, but eventually I will hit the road down the hill too, i am afraid. Especially if they implement more test events or just add other events which require kobans but they dont give more of free kobans at the same time - we'll see, but, so far, it seems doable to me (and that with wasting kobans on league for unnecessary AMEs or refills)

19 hours ago, blaa said:

yes, it seems, like most players are back to not completing every event with f2p. Btw. that's how I played the game until the middle of 2021, i only started clearing all events then (also one reason why I have still plenty of kobans left even though i never was a top league player). But there is no reason (in sense of necessity) why you should skip MD instead of PoV or PoA. You might even prefer to skip one of these, since it sounded like MD girls will be the hardest to get, even if there will be revivals. You could argue PoV and PoA girls will become easier to achievable in the future than MD girls. MD girls will also bring you more in PvP eventually (still the biggest koban income for f2p).

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I´m a totally f2p player on nutaku myself(no season pass, no mod kobans nothing). And I´m able to afford all Mythic Days and PoV´s over here by regularly finishing top 15 in D3 every single week(without AM boosters or the need for any specific booster in general). And that´s with not that much effort.
Yes I´ve been playing the game for quite some time over there (May 2018) but I never was able to get those shit ton of D3 rewards, I only started to get to that point after playing for over 3 years. The one thing you´ll need to eventually catch up is time,planning and patience. If you don´t have that you´ll never be able to actually compete with the big boys, just by being f2p. I also wasn´t too high of a level when PoP´s where first introduced over here so I didn´t get the shit ton of orbs Rosso f.e. is always talking about.
I feel like I´m a pretty good example of what a f2p player that didn´t started when the game released and didn´t always use the script nor had the knowledge of how things work from day 1 can do. I´ve spent kobans on stupid stuff when I begun playing f.e. on affection scenes or EvP (quite a lot actually). The game is pretty f2p friendly imho even know. You´re definitely not able to compete within a year or so but you´ll eventually be and that´s one thing I like about this game a lot. Something I haven´t seen in a lot of hentai game (if any at all). People always like to complain (myself included) but let´s be honest. Is there any other game you know where a totally f2p player can consistently get the "highest" rarity rewards? I don´t. Obviously just getting Mythics won´t bring you anywhere close to competing because they take a lot of ressources in order to be useful. Still a little bit of planning and patience can get you pretty far. That being said: I can only advise everyone who isn´t using the community script especially all the f2p players or those who feel like they can´t compete to use it. It REALLY helps with both saving time and being able to compete in leagues which let´s be honest: Sure it isn´t necessary to do pvp in the game at all..Rosso is right about that one..however if you´re f2p IT IS necessary because otherwise you wouldn´t get anywhere in the game. That´s how the reality is.
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Also regarding those MD news in FEb-March : My guess is that Rosso probably meant the Survey about Mythic DAys so yeah I wouldn´t get my hopes too high either about that comment. Though since it was a fairly important comment he made..I´ve therefore included it in the summary.  (it´s not that easy to summarise over an hour of info without leaving anything out so that´s why I´ve done it in that way ^^

Edited January 5, 2022 by DvDivXXX
Reworked OP

[DvDivXXX]

7 hours ago, blaa said:

But there is no reason (in sense of necessity) why you should skip MD instead of PoV or PoA. You might even prefer to skip one of these, since it sounded like MD girls will be the hardest to get, even if there will be revivals. You could argue PoV and PoA girls will become easier to achievable in the future than MD girls. MD girls will also bring you more in PvP eventually (still the biggest koban income for f2p).

I'd like to clear a big misunderstanding, here. Neither PoV nor PoA are worth it for the girls in them (except for art and collection purposes, but they're otherwise irrelevant, like 90% of the girls in the game). The value of both events lies entirely in the other rewards. And they're by far the best value in the game. A Mythic doesn't just cost an arm and a leg to acquire; that's just the tip of the iceberg. Everything about them is overpriced as hell all the way through. The 15k kobans to technically have them sitting in your inventory is peanuts compared to what it costs to get them on par with your existing battle team. And although some are definitely much better than others, as a F2P competitive player once you've invested a lot in 7 of them already, it's time to stop the bleeding.

I would GLADLY go back in time and collect the seemingly perma-blessed Bunna back when she first came up and/or during one of the only two MD Revivals we ever had. But remember, as Rosso said "not everything can happen at once", to which I must add "we're never going to give you enough info in advance to allow your long-term plans to hold, dear F2P players". Remember: back when Bunna appeared, we still had teams of 3 girls with the Alpha, Beta, Omega system, we still had relevant Classes, and we had no idea that either Blessings or Elements were coming. So, as a non-veteran and non-VIP player, the reasonable thing to do was to collect only Mythics of your Class, and you had no particular reason to expect you'd ever really need more than three either.

Both PoV and PoA will help me advance or at least try to keep up this century. Piling up Mythics I can't afford to use might help me in five years, okay (wink wink)?  So the choice seems fairly obvious to me. At least now. There is absolutely no way to tell what will still be relevant six months from now. I doubt Rosso himself even really knows (and again, what he thinks he knows is limited to what a Level 256 player who skips Leagues and most events can understand of the actual player experience, for the most part).

6 hours ago, holymolly said:

Yes I´ve been playing the game for quite some time over there (May 2018)

6 hours ago, holymolly said:

I feel like I´m a pretty good example of what a f2p player that didn´t started when the game released

I don't think so. The biggest gap is between those who started before 2019 and the others (the last notable player to reach the D3 koban printers was Shal, and even then, it's Shal, he's been so far ahead of everybody else in terms of mapping things out and making spreadsheets and formulas and AIs and whatnot that it made up for at least six months if not more compared to a "normal" good player). You've never been Slynia rich or Jelom rich, fair enough. But as you said yourself, you've been able to ensure top 15 in D3 for quite some time fairly easily and for cheap. That was thanks to your level advantage until they switched things up by introducing other sources of advantages (mainly P2W). I'm guessing since then, it's been mostly thanks to good management of the advance you had already solidified over most players when the current arms' race began. It's not just about the piles of free kobans and orbs like Blaa and many others enjoyed for a long time, there are many small to medium things that add up. Like the free 451+ Awakening, having emptied the EP pool long before players from 2019 and later could, having had multiple full cycles of OD so the event was already just a way to grab one new perma-EP on the cheap, and so on and on.

6 hours ago, holymolly said:

it´s not that easy to summarise over an hour of info without leaving anything out so that´s why I´ve done it in that way ^^

Sorry if I came across as bashing your work on that earlier on. It was very useful overall and I'm thankful for it. It's just that the source was so unclear and borderline contradictory in some areas that by summarizing it, you inevitably made it sound a bit more promising than it actually was. That's not on you, though, that's on him. I only went through the trouble of digging deeper because some players were getting their hopes up because they had only read your written summary, and I didn't want them to set themselves for a massive disappointment.

As for what's coming in the next couple of months, the most logical expectation would be the Daily Goals he had already been hyping up in the previous Q&A, and praised to high heavens again in the one from three weeks ago. But my best guess knowing him and how this game's devs tend to operate is that we're going to get whatever feature was marked as the closest to completion in the Next Features survey, regardless of how hard we (I can only hope) downvoted it. So probably Boss Bang, and/or the billion extra Pantheons. Time will tell.  

[blaa]

17 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

I'd like to clear a big misunderstanding, here.

it's not a big misunderstanding, I have just articulated another regard. I dont think the "value" of the events is "entierly" in the other rewards. It might be for you, but not for everybody; there are too many assumptions on how to play or think about the game in your statement to generalize it the way you do. I also disagree with some other claims, like Shal beeing the last one who joined the 'koban printer ranks" (nice wording btw). But I am afraid I would derail if i go into details and it's also probably not a conversation we should have here, so I am gonna stop. But, all i wanted to say: It's not a misunderstanding here, so there is nothing to clear.

btw. got 42 shards with 360 nubans investment, if I can keep this up, it's gonna be the cheapeaset MD girl for me so far.

[holymolly]

49 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

I don't think so. The biggest gap is between those who started before 2019 and the others (the last notable player to reach the D3 koban printers was Shal, and even then, it's Shal, he's been so far ahead of everybody else in terms of mapping things out and making spreadsheets and formulas and AIs and whatnot that it made up for at least six months if not more compared to a "normal" good player). You've never been Slynia rich or Jelom rich, fair enough. But as you said yourself, you've been able to ensure top 15 in D3 for quite some time fairly easily and for cheap. That was thanks to your level advantage until they switched things up by introducing other sources of advantages (mainly P2W). I'm guessing since then, it's been mostly thanks to good management of the advance you had already solidified over most players when the current arms' race began. It's not just about the piles of free kobans and orbs like Blaa and many others enjoyed for a long time, there are many small to medium things that add up. Like the free 451+ Awakening, having emptied the EP pool long before players from 2019 and later could, having had multiple full cycles of OD so the event was already just a way to grab one new perma-EP on the cheap, and so on and on.

Sorry if I came across as bashing your work on that earlier on. It was very useful overall and I'm thankful for it. It's just that the source was so unclear and borderline contradictory in some areas that by summarizing it, you inevitably made it sound a bit more promising than it actually was. That's not on you, though, that's on him. I only went through the trouble of digging deeper because some players were getting their hopes up because they had only read your written summary, and I didn't want them to set themselves for a massive disappointment.

As for what's coming in the next couple of months, the most logical expectation would be the Daily Goals he had already been hyping up in the previous Q&A, and praised to high heavens again in the one from three weeks ago. But my best guess knowing him and how this game's devs tend to operate is that we're going to get whatever feature was marked as the closest to completion in the Next Features survey, regardless of how hard we (I can only hope) downvoted it. So probably Boss Bang, and/or the billion extra Pantheons. Time will tell.  

True I´m able to do it now but that wasn´t mainly due to my lvl (which is lv 468 now (I´ve made my first top 4 in D3 prior to the p2w changes at around lvl 450 on my f2p account ) the most important reason for me was the script. I´ve only been able to do so the last few months and that´s just shortly before  all the p2w changes simply because my lvl wasn´t strong enough nor did I have the stacks off affection or girls to use blessings to it´s full extend. My EpP for example still looks like this, so still far from empty and that´s not due to me hoarding all my orbs as you can see (and also not kobans):

 

I wouldn´t say people  that started  6 or 8  months after me are those with the biggest disadvantage (I´d rather say those that started after 2020 ). I mean there are plenty of people that started after me that have a higher level simply because they made better use of there ressources or invested more time ( your prime example shal actually started playing the game after me (on the 1st of May 18 while I started on the 25th of March(my main account on hh.com for all wondering)) and he´s lvl 486 with 973 girls while I am lvl 471 with 935 girls that says it all I suppose quite a big gap imo simply because he made better use of his resources than I (I´m also pretty sure he invested less money than I did on my main(which is probably about 200ish bucks over the years for monthly card, season passes and 3 additional bundles I think) )

 

At this point I´d also like to mention that once think that often isn´t considered by newer players is the time people invest into this game over the years : I mean if somebody started a year earlier than someone else and plays the game like I do f.e. he´s already but in at least 700 more ours into the game just by starting a year earlier. That´s also a fact that shouldn´t go unconsidered.


Regarding the Q and A summary: I didn´t understood your comment as bashing.. I just wanted to say why I decided to combine partial sentences: It was more due to me wanting to keep it short and in order rather than jumping between different topics and saying the same multiple times (my notes for the summary where actually about 4 times the text so I had to sort it in some way (also it probably tooked me 3-4 hours off work without including listening to the Q and A just to put that one out here )

 

ALso sorry to derail the topic even more.. we should probably move this to another seperate topic if someone decides to further elaborate on it. Like @blaa said it normally doesn´t suit this MD topic 

 

[DvDivXXX]

12 minutes ago, holymolly said:

ALso sorry to derail the topic even more.. we should probably move this to another seperate topic if someone decides to further elaborate on it. Like @blaa said it normally doesn´t suit this MD topic 

Strongly agree, and I'd be absolutely up for that. If another mod could please split our long and increasingly off-topic discussion from this event's thread to a thread of its own, that would be much appreciated (I don't have the time or strength to do that now myself).

[holymolly]

2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Strongly agree, and I'd be absolutely up for that. If another mod could please split our long and increasingly off-topic discussion from this event's thread to a thread of its own, that would be much appreciated (I don't have the time or strength to do that now myself).

let me help you with that I just didn´t know what to name it so if you have a fitting name just go ahead  

[DvDivXXX]

10 hours ago, holymolly said:

let me help you with that I just didn´t know what to name it so if you have a fitting name just go ahead  

Thank you. I just did, and I've also did my best to expand your opening post by adding the most important missing pieces from the thread this discussion started in (as an off-topic side discussion) without removing relevant stuff from it either (so I've used quotes at the beginning, not ideal but there was no clean way to split each post in half, so this will have to do).

[DvDivXXX]

11 hours ago, blaa said:

It's not a misunderstanding here, so there is nothing to clear.

Let's not misunderstand each other on what a misunderstanding is, please, that would be a bit nuts.  Reading your post, multiple times, it means something to the best of my understanding, to which I replied. It seems clear from your next reply that what your post reads as (at least to me) is not what you meant to say. So we misunderstood each other on that, at the very least.

Since your post in question was just one continuous paragraph in terms of format but was apparently several different points in a row, I'm guessing that's at least one of the issues behind our misunderstanding. The section I've quoted and replied to earlier on would have been a couple or more different and possibly unrelated points if you had used line breaks in your post. Am I getting closer? And/or could you please elaborate on what you actually meant instead of how I read it (which was, in a nutshell "PoV and PoA don't pack more value than MD and it's arguably even the opposite" to be clear)?

[DvDivXXX]

Going back to the meat and potatoes of this discussion, I'd like to start with just a few fundamentals of Economy, as most of them apply to any economy, and this game isn't exempt from them, far from it. That's actually at the core of many disagreements and misunderstandings I've had with many people over the past couple of years of this game's economy and its various stages of gross imbalance. Among many others: Rosso, Observer X, and now the two main participants of this current discussion along with me: Blaa and Holy.

I'm not an economist, though I've studied it over two decades ago, and I've read some essential theories and still follow a few economists' blogs and channels in which they're kind enough to make "popularization of science" on many complex economical concepts and topics. I'll keep it as simple as possible and I won't go crazy on quoting Wikipedia or super specific terms here (besides that's an area I've studied and still follow almost entirely in French, my English vocabulary is fairly limited for that).

1. The value of things varies over time, relative to how the economy evolves (inflation, deflation, investment etc. all come into play).
   That's why, for instance, stockpiling kobans without using them for years is immensely less profitable than reinvesting at least a part of that dormant capital into the game's economy over the years. It's also why reaching the "same" milestone in 2018, or in 2020, or today each represent completely different values. The earlier you reach it, the longer you benefit from it, and the more value you eventually extract from it.
    
2. The capital you own gives you much more economical power than just its face value at any given point in time.
   I'll use as simple as possible of a poker analogy here: if I have 100 chips left and Blaa has 10,000 chips, Blaa has the upper hand over me in any given hand just because of that. Because he has a lot of leeway, intimidation power, and he can afford fairly big investments with little to no risk over time. I'm at the end of my rope and any move I make involves a direct and tangible risk of losing not just the one hand we're in, but simply getting eliminated from the tourney, period. That 1K pot may be insanely tempting to me (if I win it my position improves beyond measure, not just tenfold), and I might have a pair of Aces in my hand, but going all-in on that one hand is still a LOT riskier for me than it is for Blaa. Winning those 1K would comparatively be a much smaller income in his position, and he might have a pair of Sevens or even zilch in hand, but despite that, he risks almost nothing by putting a tenth of his big-balls capital on the table, and he has everything to gain by doing so. If he loses that hand, no big deal, and he has a large enough bankroll to more than make up for that small loss in the next few hands if he plays well enough. So regardless of any other factors, just being rich allows him to get consistently richer relatively easily. Being dirt poor allows me nothing, except a hail mary.
   
   Among many other things this applies to in this game, the most glaringly obvious examples are Daily Contests (most of which have a lot in common with the core principles of poker), but also Leagues (aiming for a top 4 means investing a huge proportion of my small capital, and taking the risk of a net loss if I don't reach that goal, versus Blaa for whom the same face value investment represents a very small portion of his capital, and not reaching the goal is an acceptable loss considering what he still has in store). And so on. Of course you're making a profit with your huge capital and reasonable regular investments, even a small profit. And it involves little to no risks. And of course I'm NOT making a profit with my near nonexistent capital and every single investment I make being at high risk and based on debt, even if I was way more savvy in what I choose to invest in.
   
   This isn't "high risk, high reward". It's "high risk, all the time, no matter the reward" versus "low risk, consistent reward overtime". In "real-world" economy, it's the difference between trying to generate your first million from scratch and making your existing millions grow safely. That's essential and it's completely overlooked in this very incorrect generalization of the game's economy from the perspective of a "rich" (in-game) player:
     

   20 hours ago, blaa said:

   yeah, not sure about that, so far i still have a small nuban increase per month, [....] we'll see, but, so far, it seems doable to me (and that with wasting kobans on league for unnecessary AMEs or refills)

   
   There's a ton more to say, but that's enough (and all I have the time and energy for) for today. Your turn, folks.  

Edited January 5, 2022 by DvDivXXX

[Slynia]

Let me answer the question in the title, as someone who is both going for all girls and has been on top of the food chain in leagues for, well, quite some time.

Well, you know my koban printing machine tore in half not too long ago. Add to that the introduction of PoV and Awakening on top of the already expensive events (kobans) such as Mythic Days, Legendary Days and PoA. Last but not least, let's not forget about the mandatory booster AME (for those in a competitive bracket and who's going for a top 1-4 place in D3).

All of that together has resulted in me having ~100k kobans less than I had the week before the awakening patch (So on November 10th, 2021 I had over 300k kobans, now I'm down to 207k). It might be important to add tho, that a lot of those koban losses are from market restocks that I did to level upp my girls prior to the awakening patch, so it may be an unfair claim to say that you'd lose 100k kobans in 2 months if you went for all the event girls. 😅 But hey, at least I have been going minus in kobans whole the time these past months (even if it weren't for the market restocks), even tho I'm still mostly winning every week in D3.  

However, let's not pretend that I've been a totally F2P player, as I've bought the Season pass every month and also I've bought a monthly card several times (I've bought the platinum card 3 times, and the silver/gold way more than that). Tho I pretty much stopped buying those after I started paying for the Season pass instead.

[Liliat]

Citation

Playing ALL Events Without Real-Money: Who Can Still Achieve That, Why and How?

Regularly winning D3 without spending Kobans is still an option. That should be enough for MD, PoA, 2xPoV, LD every other month, and with a lot of spare Kobans each month. Enough for getting OD and Classic villaingirls? I'm not sure. Enough to get all extra girls from Pachinko? Probably not (I'm not even considering the extra Champion girl, since I'm still pretty sure it's cheaper to get her from Pachinko anyway).

But then... Who can regularly win D3 without Kobans? AM might not be necessary, but Cordyceps is the best legendary booster, and also the hardest to obtain; so you probably need to regularly buy them. And with the current Awakenings, keeping up with lvls will sink a lot of your Kobans, so that makes it even harder to participate in all events (at least temporarily).

More realistically, playing MD + PoA + 2xPoV should be doable with D3-Top15. And if I understand correctly, for reasonably high level players, D3-15 is not so difficult to achieve, without spending huge amounts of Kobans. But you still have to sacrifice a bunch of Classic/OD events (Or MD).

With regular D3-Top4, you can participate in the main events (MD, PoA, 2xPoV), and either include some extra girls from cheaper events, or have a good amount of spare Kobans to focus on various harem upgrades. If you exclude Mythic Girls after the 7th one, you should be able to cover pretty much everything else.

I'm not sure how the Orbs nerf affects everything, though. Do we still have enough orbs to slowly empty the pools, or will the pools grow bigger over time, with the current drop rates? If you need to add x10 Orbs to get the girls, then free Kobans will never be enough

And of course, for players anywhere below the D1 League (Or players who don't really play the leagues), Kobans are nearly non-existent; so there's not much they can do. With less than 7k free Kobans a month, such players need to be extremely careful about which events they want to go for. I have at least 96 girls in my EP Pool (I think the UI can't display more than that, but I assume the queue is even longer), and I can maybe get 1 or 2 each month from Orbs. So this will keep me busy for years (It might improve when I get enough Kobans to justify participating in PoA).

With my current D2-Top16 finishes, I can participate in MD and 2 PoV. If an interesting girl shows up in LD, I'll sacrifice one PoV to get her. I have to ignore everything else for now (Except for the girls or shards we can get for free, of course ). Until I reach D3-Top15 (Or maybe even until Top4), my focus will remain on PvP investment, as this is by far the best source of Kobans. Once I'm happy with my PvP Ranks, I'll include cheaper girls. But a lot can still happen until then...

[DvDivXXX]

3 minutes ago, Slynia said:

It might be important to add tho, that a lot of those koban losses are from market restocks that I did to level upp my girls prior to the awakening patch, so it may be an unfair claim to say

Anything about it being a "loss". It was an investment. You're already reaping the benefits from those 100k and they will only keep growing overtime. Players like me who go dangerously close to zero kobans by the end of every month not only don't have the possibility to make such a huge investment, but they never will, and they'll never reap the benefits of that investment overtime either (unless they move to the dark side of P2W mechanics, but then this is no longer an answer to this topic of supposedly being able to afford all events without investing real-world money). It's not like we had koban loans in this closed economy, or investors or anything else that could allow a dirt-poor player to make their first million, and then invest further with good business plans and become richer and richer.

[Slynia]

6 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Anything about it being a "loss". It was an investment. You're already reaping the benefits from those 100k and they will only keep growing overtime.

Actually I don't think that's how I see it at this point, I can agree that it was an investment at the time, that's how I saw it and that's why I did it, it was just to save potential gems, going minus in kobans just to get all the event girls from 2 PoA and PoV events in December tho? Not so much an investment.

Prior to awakening the blessings actually had a really good effect on the game, all girls had the potential to be the best, so us that could go for all girls really made investments in every event. We were living the rich life, and like you said, we did it because we could, because we had the capital to do so.
Now it's actually kind of pointless to awaken any girls except a full team of mythics (and common girls because they're the cheapest, so that we actually can keep leveling up our mythic girls). Awakenings in other words made it pointless to go for girls that aren't mythic, common or maybe if you want in some cases, 5-star legendary, simply because the other girls won't ever be competitive enough to make it worth investing resources in them over that of myhtics.
Awakening destroyed the really good thing that blessings introduced of "having all girls = good", and reverted it back to "most girls are just for looking at", that's why I see no point in actually going for all girls anymore other than to play collector and growing your e-penis ever so slightly. I already said my goal was 1000 girls, which I will get, and after that I'll probably stop going for girls that I will never awaken anyway and that would cost me kobans to get, they really don't matter anymore.

So in the aftermath, was it an investment to level up all my girls to 451+? Not in my eyes, as most of them will never be awakened anyway looking at the current state of the game. Now some of you might argue that it gave me more endurance from my harem level, sure, I got another 4k more endurance from what I remember being about 65k kobans in market restocks. Not something that make any meaningful impact when you're up against someone with a performance team of higher level than your own.

[bolitho76]

@Slynia: Don't forget the better standing in Champion battles because you have a lot of tougher Girls in your Harem and can form much easier a good team.

@Liliat: You have a good chance to get all girls from EpP, because there are not so much additions to the pool in the last months. Missions give you around 6 EpP Orbs, Login 2, Season 3, PoV 2 (6 if you invested in the payed path), PoA 7 (18 with the payed pass), and the amount from Leagues and PoPs are additional. You could say that you need 16 EpPx1 Orbs pro Girl in average (the real amount is better and more like 14, but I calculate with the higher amount because of a safety margin). With the 20 (35) EpPx1 + PoPs and League Orbs it is possible to get every month 3+ EpP Girls. To the amount of EpPx1 Orbs pro month: In the months I got 3 EpPx1 Orbs from tPoPs I could reach between 15 and 60 EpPx1 in a month after the nerf (3xPoP per day).

 

I calculate with  gain of 18.000+ Koban each month. 4500 from Missions, 11200 from 4x Top 15 in D3, and the Koban from the Daily Missions, Season, tPoPs and Contests. Normaly I got a lot more Koban, but better to make the budget with lower amounts than to get less and haven't enough to fulfill the plan. I buy in PoV and PoA the Koban passes and that's the biggest part in the budget with 14400 Koban. The rest will be storaged for Mythic Days which I try to do every two month. No Koban invest in Legendary/Epic Days and in Classic and Orgy Days only to get the last shards for a Girl at the end of the Event. I buy (mostly) no booster (only Albans Memorys until I reach lvl 500 😉 , and if needed sandalwood), because I get enough Boosters from MyP for my normaley mix of Booster.

The answer to the thread-question is, in my mind, only one who regulary win Top4 in D3 and sometimes get Top1 as f2p can afford all Events because 19400 Koban every month from leagues are +8000 Koban and with this additional amount it's possible to participate fully in all events every month but this also means: no other spending of Koban outside event refills of combativity, needed Sandalwood and the payed passes of PoV and PoA - oh and at least: no bad streak in one of the events.

[blaa]

3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Let's not misunderstand each other on what a misunderstanding is, please, that would be a bit nuts.  Reading your post, multiple times, it means something to the best of my understanding, to which I replied. It seems clear from your next reply that what your post reads as (at least to me) is not what you meant to say. So we misunderstood each other on that, at the very least.

Since your post in question was just one continuous paragraph in terms of format but was apparently several different points in a row, I'm guessing that's at least one of the issues behind our misunderstanding. The section I've quoted and replied to earlier on would have been a couple or more different and possibly unrelated points if you had used line breaks in your post. Am I getting closer? And/or could you please elaborate on what you actually meant instead of how I read it (which was, in a nutshell "PoV and PoA don't pack more value than MD and it's arguably even the opposite" to be clear)?

So, I wrote a longer post, but i deleted it, cause i dont think this is the place to have this kind of conversation (talking about the relation of text and logic, also about the relation of text and understanding). My English might be too bad either. If you are more interessted in that kind of conversation you can hook me up on discord - or not.

What I was trying to say was a) there was no misunderstanding, so there was no need to clear it up (you could have also replied without this claim). But if you claim that there was one (and it was even a big one, what ever the criteria for this word is, but it has, ofc, a specific rhetoric function), i have to disagree. Your view isnt the only one and your understanding isnt the criteria for what somebody meant or not. But with words like 'entirely' you excactly claim this: you know how people have to see it. Maybe so much to the 'how', but you also asked for the 'what'.

My point was that it doesnt make a lot of sense to say "PoV and PoA is more valuable than MD. Period." My point wasnt that MD is more valuable as PoV or PoA. I actually think, the value of the event depends on what you think about the game and how you wann play it.

The value of an event isnt something you can decide for everybody, but it's something that depends on how somebody sees the game. If somebody prefers having a good variety of mythic girls to have a higher chance to get a good PvP setup, MD might be more valuable to him. If somebody tries to play more economically it's probably better to invest in PoA or PoV, if somebody plays mainly for the art, he will choose in one month MD in the other PoV or PoA, ... This are all different regards but none of them is 'right' or 'wrong' - at least if we compare the events after their "value" (there are plenty of others regards to compare these events though). So, all I am saying is that the value of an event isnt how good it is ecconomically, there are plenty of other criterias out there. No need to make your own absolute. If you think it that way, there was no misunderstanding, at least not for me.

I am afraid even the short post will get a long answer - i would prefer a chat rather than writing forum posts.

Edited January 5, 2022 by blaa

[Slynia]

1 minute ago, bolitho76 said:

Don't forget the better standing in Champion battles because you have a lot of tougher Girls in your Harem and can form much easier a good team.

Yeah, that irrelevant feature is something worth upgrading all my girls for...
Don't get me wrong now, I know I'm being pessimistic but I really don't give 2 f**ks about champions at this stage of the game. 
Only when a new CC girl is released am I even fighting them seriously at all (seriously = trying to impress them as much as possible with each ticket), and I don't mind it taking longer to recruit her nowadays so I can wait the full month if I have to, the girl won't impact my league performance much anyway so I'm in no rush getting her ^^ 

Outside of CC I only fight champions during PoA or occasionally, during LC, and then it's a bout the number of fights, so I don't need a strong team.

[Liliat]

il y a 12 minutes, bolitho76 a dit :

(the real amount is better and more like 14

Was. We'll need more data (Probably during the next LC event, since everyone is stashing orbs at the moment) because current values are unreliable at best, but the latest estimation is closer to 1 in 30 Orbs. I've earned 39 Orbs in 2 weeks since the last LC, so that seems to match your values (This includes 2 running EP PoP, both PoVs, but no paid PoA). That's probably close to 3 girls per month indeed. That's ~3 years to clear my current pool if they don't add any girl (And if I indeed only have 96 in the pool, but I suspect more are hidden ).

il y a 21 minutes, bolitho76 a dit :

there are not so much additions to the pool in the last months

That's good to know Since my pool just keeps growing out of control (I'm sure I had less than 96 at some point, but I also stopped playing the game for approximately a year...), I don't really pay attention to what's added or when. Same for MP; I always have 1 to 3 girls available (More often 3 than 1 ), so I'm not even trying to keep track. Since I became aware that 5* Legendaries were present in MP, I started saving these orbs more than I used to.

[blaa]

2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Going back to the meat and potatoes of this discussion, I'd like to start with just a few fundamentals of Economy, as most of them apply to any economy, and this game isn't exempt from them, far from it. That's actually at the core of many disagreements and misunderstandings I've had with many people over the past couple of years of this game's economy and its various stages of gross imbalance. Among many others: Rosso, Observer X, and now the two main participants of this current discussion along with me: Blaa and Holy.

I'm not an economist, though I've studied it over two decades ago, and I've read some essential theories and still follow a few economists' blogs and channels in which they're kind enough to make "popularization of science" on many complex economical concepts and topics. I'll keep it as simple as possible and I won't go crazy on quoting Wikipedia or super specific terms here (besides that's an area I've studied and still follow almost entirely in French, my English vocabulary is fairly limited for that).

1. The value of things varies over time, relative to how the economy evolves (inflation, deflation, investment etc. all come into play).
   That's why, for instance, stockpiling kobans without using them for years is immensely less profitable than reinvesting at least a part of that dormant capital into the game's economy over the years. It's also why reaching the "same" milestone in 2018, or in 2020, or today each represent completely different values. The earlier you reach it, the longer you benefit from it, and the more value you eventually extract from it.
    
2. The capital you own gives you much more economical power than just its face value at any given point in time.
   I'll use as simple as possible of a poker analogy here: if I have 100 chips left and Blaa has 10,000 chips, Blaa has the upper hand over me in any given hand just because of that. Because he has a lot of leeway, intimidation power, and he can afford fairly big investments with little to no risk over time. I'm at the end of my rope and any move I make involves a direct and tangible risk of losing not just the one hand we're in, but simply getting eliminated from the tourney, period. That 1K pot may be insanely tempting to me (if I win it my position improves beyond measure, not just tenfold), and I might have a pair of Aces in my hand, but going all-in on that one hand is still a LOT riskier for me than it is for Blaa. Winning those 1K would comparatively be a much smaller income in his position, and he might have a pair of Sevens or even zilch in hand, but despite that, he risks almost nothing by putting a tenth of his big-balls capital on the table, and he has everything to gain by doing so. If he loses that hand, no big deal, and he has a large enough bankroll to more than make up for that small loss in the next few hands if he plays well enough. So regardless of any other factors, just being rich allows him to get consistently richer relatively easily. Being dirt poor allows me nothing, except a hail mary.
   
   Among many other things this applies to in this game, the most glaringly obvious examples are Daily Contests (most of which have a lot in common with the core principles of poker), but also Leagues (aiming for a top 4 means investing a huge proportion of my small capital, and taking the risk of a net loss if I don't reach that goal, versus Blaa for whom the same face value investment represents a very small portion of his capital, and not reaching the goal is an acceptable loss considering what he still has in store). And so on. Of course you're making a profit with your huge capital and reasonable regular investments, even a small profit. And it involves little to no risks. And of course I'm NOT making a profit with my near nonexistent capital and every single investment I make being at high risk and based on debt, even if I was way more savvy in what I choose to invest in.
   
   This isn't "high risk, high reward". It's "high risk, all the time, no matter the reward" versus "low risk, consistent reward overtime". In "real-world" economy, it's the difference between trying to generate your first million from scratch and making your existing millions grow safely. That's essential and it's completely overlooked in this very incorrect generalization of the game's economy from the perspective of a "rich" (in-game) player:
     

   
   There's a ton more to say, but that's enough (and all I have the time and energy for) for today. Your turn, folks.  

i dont think we disagree here, i have many times said that the economy of the game isnt balanced and that the rich get richer; nothing KK has changed the last few months will acutally help the lower/poorer players a lot. It might not even help a little bit. So, no, this aspects of the economy werent overlooked so far. KK just dont care to change it. What I claimed was that there is still enough koban rewards ingame to keep your current stack more or less on the same line.

I also said, that for the lower players it's already time to ditch some events - prefearbly classic events and orgy events, since the girls will eventually come back with the lowest need to invest to get them eventually - to get a better stack or to be in a safer position.

The difference between you and me is that i started earlier playing poker and so, even if we might be on the same level playing wise, I played more hands and got more money already, you cant catch up - that's how the game works, unfortunately. I wouldnt have the money though if I wouldnt have been able to have a proper bankroll management. Just talked today with a player who is/was a regular d3 winner, but has over 50k nubans less than me, mostly cause he chooses to play differently than me regarding his koban investments.

Why do i have so many orbs and kobans even though I only got a high level tier player since recent changes? It's because i didnt invest them in classic and orgy events, but rather choose to wait a year or two to get most of the girls for just a little koban investment in OD.

 

[blaa]

2 hours ago, Slynia said:

Let me answer the question in the title, as someone who is both going for all girls and has been on top of the food chain in leagues for, well, quite some time.

Well, you know my koban printing machine tore in half not too long ago. Add to that the introduction of PoV and Awakening on top of the already expensive events (kobans) such as Mythic Days, Legendary Days and PoA. Last but not least, let's not forget about the mandatory booster AME (for those in a competitive bracket and who's going for a top 1-4 place in D3).

All of that together has resulted in me having ~100k kobans less than I had the week before the awakening patch (So on November 10th, 2021 I had over 300k kobans, now I'm down to 207k). It might be important to add tho, that a lot of those koban losses are from market restocks that I did to level upp my girls prior to the awakening patch, so it may be an unfair claim to say that you'd lose 100k kobans in 2 months if you went for all the event girls. 😅 But hey, at least I have been going minus in kobans whole the time these past months (even if it weren't for the market restocks), even tho I'm still mostly winning every week in D3.  

However, let's not pretend that I've been a totally F2P player, as I've bought the Season pass every month and also I've bought a monthly card several times (I've bought the platinum card 3 times, and the silver/gold way more than that). Tho I pretty much stopped buying those after I started paying for the Season pass instead.

I will answer this way too. I also lost nubans the last two months. I invested around 5000k nubans in market refills. I started with 65k before awakening patch, now I am on 62k. I didnt upgrared all girls, but only 5/6* and common girls (unfortunately i miscalculated and i need 20 more from 0 to 700). I only invested this little cause i already saved up 4M xp in books. I could invest a little bit more for 700 mythics, but that's not necessary atm. I agree, upgrading all girls wasnt an investment, but in this case it's how @DvDivXXXsaid: you lost, but it doesnt hurt your economy.

I lost more EpP orbs though, i am only having around 950 atm, which was almost close to 2000 half a year ago. I could still wait, but i dont think it's necessary anymore. My economy is stable enough. I dont see, if the event shedule stays the same how I am not being able to achieve all of them the next few years, I am pretty sure I wont lose too much nubans either.

I agree, low players cant get them all: what i would do, I said above.

[natstar]

If you already had a lot of hentaiclicker girls that saves you kobans every month due to getting the girl without having to do pvp which is a advantage over people without them since they need to spend kobans on league refreshing even with some saved kisses.

The last survey stated that they plan even more events every month so unless they replace old events with new ones everyone that is not paying every month will be losing more kobans they make per month.

[bolitho76]

4 hours ago, Liliat said:

We'll need more data (Probably during the next LC event, since everyone is stashing orbs at the moment) because current values are unreliable at best, but the latest estimation is closer to 1 in 30 Orbs.

In last Classic-Event I had to use 45 EpPx1 Orbs to gain the three Pachinko Girls from Classic Event. In Orgy Days I had spent 55 EpPx1 Orbs and got only one Girl after the 7th spin. So the latest Orb use from my site fitting mostly to the old 6-7% Range and the 48 Orbs without a drop in Last Orgy Days fitting in the RNG tolerance. At the end of this Classic Event I try to get the two Pachinko-only Girls and Malina from EpP. Then I will report more.

 

[blaa]

19 minutes ago, bolitho76 said:

In last Classic-Event I had to use 45 EpPx1 Orbs to gain the three Pachinko Girls from Classic Event. In Orgy Days I had spent 55 EpPx1 Orbs and got only one Girl after the 7th spin. So the latest Orb use from my site fitting mostly to the old 6-7% Range and the 48 Orbs without a drop in Last Orgy Days fitting in the RNG tolerance. At the end of this Classic Event I try to get the two Pachinko-only Girls and Malina from EpP. Then I will report more.

 

you both should look in the epic pachinko orbs thread for more stats - spoiler: so far we cant tell if there was a change or not; it could be all still in the range of RNG

[holymolly]

5 hours ago, bolitho76 said:

You could say that you need 16 EpPx1 Orbs pro Girl in average (the real amount is better and more like 14, but I calculate with the higher amount because of a safety margin). With the 20 (35) EpPx1 + PoPs and League Orbs it is possible to get every month 3+ EpP Girls. To the amount of EpPx1 Orbs pro month: In the months I got 3 EpPx1 Orbs from tPoPs I could reach between 15 and 60 EpPx1 in a month after the nerf (3xPoP per day).

I calculate with  gain of 18.000+ Koban each month. 4500 from Missions, 11200 from 4x Top 15 in D3, and the Koban from the Daily Missions, Season, tPoPs and Contests. Normaly I got a lot more Koban, but better to make the budget with lower amounts than to get less and haven't enough to fulfill the plan. I buy in PoV and PoA the Koban passes and that's the biggest part in the budget with 14400 Koban. The rest will be storaged for Mythic Days which I try to do every two month. No Koban invest in Legendary/Epic Days and in Classic and Orgy Days only to get the last shards for a Girl at the end of the Event. I buy (mostly) no booster (only Albans Memorys until I reach lvl 500 😉 , and if needed sandalwood), because I get enough Boosters from MyP for my normaley mix of Booster.

The answer to the thread-question is, in my mind, only one who regulary win Top4 in D3 and sometimes get Top1 as f2p can afford all Events because 19400 Koban every month from leagues are +8000 Koban and with this additional amount it's possible to participate fully in all events every month but this also means: no other spending of Koban outside event refills of combativity, needed Sandalwood and the payed passes of PoV and PoA - oh and at least: no bad streak in one of the events.

That´s a good summary imo.. though if I had to condtradict something it´s the 16/20 orbs on average per EpP girls because it seems more like 25ish lately(from what I see and read at least ^^)

 

Kobans obtainable by being a competitive  f2p player:

Let´s assume you´re a veteran (lvl 470 ish + have a harem off over 800 girls that´s somewhat of the average f2p ish veteran imho) you use the script and you have at least 7 mythics which are at least lvl 600 that pretty much a similar chase to me for both my main and f2p account:
You´ll be able to get kobans for free from:

- missions 4500
- season+ dailys about 1k
- league depends whether your competetive or not let´s just assume you´re not too competetive but try to go for the best: 1 top4 and 3 top 3  (I usually always have to do 2 refills just because I can´t make it to the game always so let´s include that as well : that´s also an important point imo because it´s pretty much always the case) so: 4,8k + 3x 2,9k ( - 8x 190 (I think that´s about what a league refill costs)) = 11980 kobans (let´s just say say about 12k)
- contests I usually get at least 1-2 1st finishes and about 5 top 4s a month so another 900 kobans (that´s by actively looking for doable top4´s but not going out of my way and use ressources I´d otherwise need for events)
- PoP: I´d say that I probably get about 1 koban PoP drop on average (sometimes I don´t have any koban PoP´s sometimes 1 or 2 so I feel like that´s pretty fair to assume while doing 2,5 ish PoP rotations a day like I do) so another 30x 48 = 1440 kobans (let´s just say 1,4k)
- orgy days: I´m assuming you´re able to finish all of them (which is pretty though lately for me too be honest) so that´s about another 1k kobans

...that´s pretty much everything you can regulary get by being a f2p player even with the veteran adventage: overall about 20,8k kobans

Orbs obtainable from f2p:

Epic orbs:
as for the orbs I´ll have to guess/ take my personal experiences into the account:

POP´s:I´m personally pretty unlucky on my main with PoP but kinda average on my f2p account: I´d say within a month you´re probably on average going to get about 20-50 orbs from PoP´s on lvl 14. (let´s be good willing and say you get about 2 girls from there)

League: the prior mention results would result in 10 EpP orbs

Daily and Missions: Daily is 2 EpP orbs and missions is a bit difficult so I have to guess: let´s be again generous towards KK and say you get about 2 per week that´s anoth 8 from missions per month (I feel like that´s very generous I f.e. have had 3 and 5 from daily mission in the last month): so again 10 orbs

Season and events: 3 from season, 17 from PoA (I assume you´re able/ want to buy the PoA with your kobans since it´s the best RoI orbs wise at least) and another 4 from PoV (I also assume you´re buying it both times since it´s probably the most important Event after MD´s for competitive players). another 24 orbs

let´s just once again be generous and assume that the additional 44 orbs will give you another 2 girls so overall 4 girls from EpP orbs per month
 

MyP orbs:

season, PoA, LC´s and MD´s are all a source for MyP orbs: you get 3 6x from PoA, 1 3x from season, I´d say you should be able to get another few 3x/6x every now and then from LC´s so let´s just assume you get 1 girl per month from the 3x and 6x Orbs.

The 1x Orbs are a bit more random in both drops and girl drop in MyP.. since I can´t really make any regulary use of them on my main I´ll take my f2p account as an example: I normally get about 200-300ish from various ways (MD,pantheon,season,events,PoP) per months. For me, those result in about 3 drops per month (again I fortunately haven´t noticed the changes to MyP so this might be subject to change to a lot of us)

Again let´s be generous towards KK and say Mythic PAchinko give the average veteran mentioned about (lvl 470+ and about 800girls) 4 girls a month

Overall orbs net about 8 girls per month in this calculation/assumption

expenses:

Now too the unpleasant part..spending the kobans

I assume the average competitive veteran can pay for following events:

PoA and PoV´s: 14400 kobans that is (though it saves 1080 kobans on MD´s due to the 2 mythic boosters)

And MD´s: I´ll once again be generous towards KK and say the average Mythic girl (when using 4 booster  like I did the last 2 months) costs about 8,5k kobans + another 1080 kobans for the remaining 2 boosters. let´s just say 10k kobans  overall
-------

all those that can count probably already noticed that were already at a net negative koban amount after the  3 imo essential events that cost money (even though the MD´s cost is fairly cheap imho)

but let´s continue the calculation just to see how bad it really is , shall we ?

------
continuing the calculation with all the other events :

LC´s: no expense in this case (I´ve never had to use kobans for this event on either of my accounts)

LD´s and Epic Days : is generally a massive dick to me I normally need about 6k (those are the ok once) to get the new girl (I assume Epic Days cost about the same amount)

2 KC´s: I never ever try for those on my f2p account just because it´s a) a total waste of time and money and b) the girls are horrendous (just look at alt. albane ....bloody hell.. that´s all I´d like to say ) but let´s assume I need to finish the rest of the girls: I´m honestly pretty lucky with the KC´s on my main, my drops are mostly in the 60ish shard range so I´m assuming I need another 80 shard per month (I obviously optimize my kisses and always store them until the first KC) since league refills are just too random I´m assuming we´d need season refills for this task: I´m once again fairly generous towards the drop rates and assume an average of 5 shards per refill -> thus 16 refills are needed to complete those 2: unfortunately I´m not able to see the refill cost now as I´m currently stocking up my kisses but I´m pretty sure it´s 216 kobans so: 16x 216 is another 3456 kobans so 3,5k kobans

As for classics and orgys I´d once again use my experiences: since I stock up fights for MD´s lately I need about 1k kobans on average to finish the classic boss girls and also about 2k kobans on average per girl if you would want to finish all the "free" boss girls if there are more than 2 available but since OD´s varies soo much I´ll exclude it from the calculation. I just assume that the EpP orbs andMyP orbs you get will be enough to eventually get the event pachinko girls (OD and classics), let´s also forget about EpP perma girls for this calculation.

So all events cost a bare minimum of pretty much about 35 000 kobans

that´s a deficit of about 14k kobans per months even if you include Orbs and all the other generous assumption I´ve made for AN REGULAR D3 top player (well not top of the top like @Slynia but a drawer underneath that)

Now imagine being f2p that can´t make those kobans for free... the long answer to this topic and the sort answer a lot of other have given already at this point is: No you´re still not able to get all the new girls for "free" no mather if you´re a veteran or a new player (not even as a mod..only those that have been able to milk the league KKow are currently able to do so atm but will also eventually run out)... Drops the mic ...
 

(edit: disclaimer: I may have forgotten something but this is more meant as an example ^^)

 

[DvDivXXX]

9 hours ago, Slynia said:

Actually I don't think that's how I see it at this point, I can agree that it was an investment at the time, that's how I saw it and that's why I did it, it was just to save potential gems, going minus in kobans just to get all the event girls from 2 PoA and PoV events in December tho? Not so much an investment.

I never said it was a GOOD investment.  But it was an investment. You didn't throw these kobans in the recycle bin. You invested them in stuff with a certain potential ROI. Whether it ends up paying off as much as you planned or even at all is something else entirely, but you definitely didn't just "lose" those kobans. They're not in your koban bankroll anymore, but at least (a pretty big) part of their value is still in your capital, just in another form. Like everything else in an economy, the value of those things you invested may increase or decrease overtime, and even overnight (especially with Rosso's alleged global vision for the future of the game getting revealed and released bit by bit, often with short to no notice at all).

There are countless horror stories of people winning the lottery and then ending up homeless within a year from there, due to terrible investments, bad advisors, losing touch with reality, getting leeched to the bone by anyone they ever used to vaguely know and who suddenly became their best friends and all came up with great reasons to "borrow" money from them, and more.

Of course you need to manage your capital well and make savvy investments, and also a little luck can always help, even when you're rich. Being rich doesn't guarantee you'll stay rich forever in and of itself. But all of these factors also exist for the poor, and they also have a lot less opportunities to invest and to increase their capital. (That's addressing Blaa's middle post too, the one I reacted to with "Hearts").

And the more screwed up the economy is, the harder it gets in general, but (assuming equally capable resource management) the rich-man version of "hard times" will at worse lean towards what the poor man would typically call "pretty good times" no matter what. And in a completely backwards, twisted, ever-changing but always heavily imbalanced economy like this game's, well... It's pretty miserable for most players.

8 hours ago, blaa said:

I am afraid even the short post will get a long answer - i would prefer a chat rather than writing forum posts.

I'm glad to add you on Discord and have a chat if you're up for it. But regardless of that, what we experienced here was much more of a semantics disagreement (with a hint of language barrier) than an actual disagreement on any real discussion point. And I'm really not at all into that, please believe me. I even actively HATE going in circles over which terms means what to whom and whatnot. My "let's not have a misunderstanding on what a misunderstanding is" was meant as a friendly joke so we both take a step back and realize it's more important to understand each other's messages than to try and teach one another how to talk. I'll avoid using the term "misunderstanding" since we clearly don't agree on what it means, and I really don't care about that (nor should you).

After reading your past few posts, I think our actual err.. [insert your preferred term for "we don't understand each other"] is that we use the term VALUE completely differently. I use "value" in the term commonly used and widely spread in most gaming communities. That is, as in, how cheap or expensive Item X is compared to Item Y? And, more generally compared to all other items in that same economy at the time. You use "value" as a subjective term to indicate PREFERENCE. So we were not disagreeing at all. We just had a hard time speaking the same language.

The amount of goods that 7,200 kobans give for the PoA's extra path is the best "value" in the game. That's objective, that's not me assuming anything about anybody's preferences. The amount of goods you get from the 3,600 kobans of a PoV's extra path (as long as you still have a use for the XP boost, at least) is also way up there. If you compare either to the famous (and famously obsolete) gold-standard of like 3-4 years ago or so, the 5,400 kobans for one 3-star girl in the Epic Pachinko, it's not even funny how much lower the value of the EPx10 is (obviously I'm not speaking about orbs, here, I mean actually burning down 5.4k kobans for it). You do those maths for everything kobans can buy in the game, and you'll end up with the clear conclusion that the highest value per koban in the game, strictly in the economical sense, is PoA and/or PoV. A Mythic girl, on that chart, has a TERRIBLE VALUE, especially taking into account ALL of its costs, not just the 10-15k people are typically reporting when that's just the price for the raw item, not the final product.

Having said that, I was not saying anything subjective, there. Your PREFERENCE, aka your use of the term "value", as in "what's the most valuable to a given player" absolutely doesn't need to match the objective value in terms of "how good of a deal it is?" that I was referring to all along. You could offer me the best deal ever in terms of objective VALUE for a parachute lesson, and it would still be a HORRIBLE deal for me, specifically and subjectively. Simply because I have a phobia of heights and I once literally stayed paralyzed for half an hour on top of a water toboggan (while small kids who didn't have my phobia were jumping next to me continuously with a grin on their face), so I wouldn't accept a parachute lesson even if you PAID me for it. That's RELATIVE and SUBJECTIVE "value".

I hope this... helps you get what I actually meant? And I think I now get what you meant too. Sincerely. ❤️ 

[bolitho76]

@holymollySome minor mistakes in your very good post:

Koban amount from Orgy Days: The Koban amount from Orgy Days is much similar to the first five days of Classic Event, so you get: 60, 60, 60, 96, 108 (the two last can differ because I'm not sure of the exact amount of theese days at the last Orgy Days). So not 1k, more 0,5k.

PoA gives you 18, not 17 EpPx1 Orbs. 3/5 and 4/6.

PoV gives 3 EpPx1 Orbs, not 2. 1/2

PoV gives you 2 MyPx1 Orbs if you reach 3k, 4k, 5k, 6k Points and one at 90, 360, 810, 1400, 2000 Points.

 

In your calculation you made a good overvieuw, but there are some points who led to a too high amount of needed Koban. Theese had I spotted:

In KC you will get from natural regen 24 Shards from Saeson and 25 from league (average from 50% dropchance of 1 shard in Saeson and 1-4 shards per drop from League with 10% chance). In addition you should have in mind that an intelligent player will start at least with a full bar of Kisses (additional 10 Kisses), PoV gives 45 Kisses, Season gives you 47 Kisses and PoA gives Kisses too (not sure of the amount, but lets say thats 15 Kisses from PoA). So you get 162 Kisses wich stands for 80 shards so you had only to beat two champs over stage 5 to get the last 20 Kisses or invest 500 Koban for refills. Daily Login give you 20 Kisses but it's not sure that they are avalaible at the right time so I will they exclude here.

PoV, Season and PoA gives combativity rewards. PoV 32x2, Season 81 and PoA 87. Kobanwise it's better to invest the Season and one PoV combativity in LD or OD and start in Classic Event with the storaged combativity from PoA. Why? Because in this case you didn't need the 1k to finish Classic Event. My calculation for MD is a little bit different too, because a 5th Sandlawood is Kobanwise more economical. With 5 Sandalwood (2xPoV and 3x540 Koban) you need in average 850 combativity. with 146 natural regen, full bar, the 32 combativity from the actuell PoV and the first 5 combativity from Season you get 203 combativity for free normaly. To do the math easier let us say we need to buy 650 combativity with Koban so you need 7020 Koban for refills. So Mythic Days needs 8640 Koban in average. So I will say that you can save more than 2000 Koban in your budget against your calculation.

Your 35.000 Koban are a little bit overestimated to me. 27.000 is more realistic but this is at least only a cosmetic changing.