pantheon Pantheon walls

[007V]

Hey, I recently started looking at this topic and noticed a percentage calculation like this on the screenshots of some players. Is it a Monthly Cards bonus or an external plugin?🤔

EDIT: Jesus, it went with the echo XD. I'm so sorry, I'm on vacation and my internet is slow like a turtle and I hit send a few times. Could someone from moderation remove these answers below?
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Mod comment: no worries, I got you covered.  Div*

Edited August 5, 2022 by DvDivXXX
Mod edit: double post content added

[Liliat]

It's from the "HH++" community script (For which we still don't have a Sticky, apparently 😕 )

[Ravi-Sama]

2 hours ago, 007V said:

Hey, I recently started looking at this topic and noticed a percentage calculation like this on the screenshots of some players. Is it a Monthly Cards bonus or an external plugin?

You shall find the answers you seek within the depths of this thread.

Edited August 5, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[Liliat]

Il y a 12 heures, Ravi-Sama a dit :

FYI, it's wrong about 3x cords being a 30% boost btw, it's actually 33.1%. 

Just tested this on TS:

- No boosters: 71328 Attack

- 1 Cordy: 78462 Attack (x1.1)

- 2 Cordys: 85594 Attack (x1.2000)

So the cordyceps do not multiply with each other; they add. If they multiplied, I'd have 86308 attack instead of 85594

[Ravi-Sama]

11 hours ago, Liliat said:

Just tested this on TS:

- No boosters: 71328 Attack

- 1 Cordy: 78462 Attack (x1.1)

- 2 Cordys: 85594 Attack (x1.2000)

So the cordyceps do not multiply with each other; they add. If they multiplied, I'd have 86308 attack instead of 85594

Equip 3 cords, and check what it is.  2 cords is supposed to be a 1.2 multiplier anyway, whether it was added or multiplied.

110% +10% = 120%

110% * 110% = 121%

It's a 1% difference.  Too hard to tell.

If the atk ends up being 92726, then it's a 1.3 multiplier, 30% atk boost.
If the atk is 94938, then it's a (1.1^3) or 1.331 multiplier, 33.1% atk boost.

If it is addition, then that might mean ginseng also works w/ addition.  +6%, 12%, and 18% of the player's base stats.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[FGoog]

On 8/4/2022 at 11:08 PM, DvDivXXX said:

As far as attack is concerned (unless they stealth changed it since the last time I checked), gins only boost your primary (legacy) class stat by 6% and, through that, the attack that comes from it. It doesn't include the extra stats from your team.

To determine your base attack, with the script, you just check your primary "class" stat this way:

Of course I have 3 cordys equipped right now, so that's +0 to my Know-How "stat" from boosters, since those directly boost attack itself. But next time I have a gin equipped, I'll have a look.

Oh, and to further assist with the maths based on my before/after Headband screenshots, here's what my stats look like with full mono equipped:

Interesting. The Club bonus actually boosts your equipment stats too. Oh well.

Anyway, IIRC, each gin I'd equip with the above setup would give me +6% of 58,237 in extra attack. The tricky part (and particularly interesting for mid-level players) is that each cordy then gives +10% of the whole attack, including that little boost from each gin.

But yeah, without doing the actual maths myself, it doesn't seem that getting +6% of 58k to my base attack of ~110k (so in that case roughly +3% to my actual base attack?) so that my two cordys can give me +10% of a slightly bigger base attack is anywhere near worth the slot where I could have another +10% of my whole attack instead. (Of course gins give other little bonuses all around, but only attack, total power and active skills really matter against a Pantheon Wall).

-----
Edit: And going back to active skills and total power (which I suspect but am not sure are related to switching in 1 or 2 mono items for rainbow ones), there's still a lot that looks indistinguishable from magic to me.

Full mono with strongest current team by total power:

Now, same thing but switching the weakest of the 7, which happens to be Orange, for an even weaker but Blue girl:

Now, switching one more for another Blue girl?

So it seems the first +3% Lifesteal matters a LOT, enough to more than double my odds despite the 3.5k loss in total power. But one more time +3% Lifesteal for 8k less total power completely tanks my odds. ^^

All in all, switching girls and items around, the very best odds I was able to reach so far are these:

That's with exactly one Rainbow item, and one slightly weaker but Blue girl switched in. It's twice better odds than my actual stronger team with full mono, but switching anything more ruins it.

One thing to chime in with on this topic- particularly for Pantheon wall battles it helps to think in terms of discrete rounds of the fight and what is happening each round. If you changed one girl from orange to blue and you saw a significant jump in you success percentage, that means the added HP (ego) allowed you to survive an additional round, so then you need one less critical hit to win the fight. Similarly if you switch one girl from orange to black and your success percentage jumps up considerably that means you can beat the enemy in one less round and you need one less critical hit. If you make a change that doesn't affect the calculation of the number of rounds and critical hits that you need, then you want that change to increase the odds of critical hits (and defense from critical its) through harmony (e.g. through more rainbow equipment) or the orange girl bonus. Presumably one could maximize every league fight like this too, but I hope someone kills me if they ever catch me spending that much time on this game.

[Ravi-Sama]

1 hour ago, FGoog said:

Presumably one could maximize every league fight like this too, but I hope someone kills me if they ever catch me spending that much time on this game.

LOL, yeah, doing it for league fights is overkill, but I have analyzed 8x pantheon 1700 wall fights, to see what I'd need to win.  Healing slightly more HP from a sensual girl, or having more Ego, b/c of an exhibitionist girl, really might make all the difference to win.  It makes sense to mess w/ the team composition, and also gear, to last more rounds, and deal more damage.  The rest of the pantheon is boring, but the walls are interesting.  The feeling of having a 180k+ team, and the possibility of winning, when you know blessings, and boosters will run out soon, is motivating.

On 6/3/2022 at 7:03 AM, Ravi-Sama said:

On 6/3/2022 at 7:03 AM, Ravi-Sama said:

Edited August 6, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[FGoog]

1 hour ago, Ravi-Sama said:

LOL, yeah, doing it for league fights is overkill, but I have analyzed 8x pantheon 1700 wall fights, to see what I'd need to win.  Healing slightly more HP from a sensual girl, or having more Ego to begin w/, b/c of an exhibitionist girl, really might make all the difference to win.  It makes sense to mess w/ the team composition, and also gear, b/c of that.  The rest of the pantheon is boring, but the walls are when it gets interesting.  The feeling of having an 180k+ team, and the possibility of winning, when you know blessings, and boosters will run out soon, is motivating.

Yeah, you've thought about like this before. Cool table 👍 I love the Pantheon wall fights too; the challenge is fun. Something like that helps one make a decision about using a headband before actually using the headband.

[Liliat]

Il y a 6 heures, Ravi-Sama a dit :

It's a 1% difference.  Too hard to tell.

That's why I used 3 decimals, as well as the raw value from the team selection page (instead of the displayed value rounded up to 1k). The "1% difference" on a 70k+ value is not hard to tell, it's 700+ points.

I still have a 10 hours cooldown on the booster; I'll update in the evening (or maybe tomorrow).

Il y a 6 heures, Ravi-Sama a dit :

If it is addition, then that might mean ginseng also works w/ addition.  +6%, 12%, and 18% of the player's base stats.

Pretty sure that's the case. That's the assumption I made in my simulator, and I've never noticed any discrepancies. Although I've been using a single Ginseng for a while, so maybe I just never double-checked with multiple Gin's.

[Ravi-Sama]

2 hours ago, Liliat said:

That's why I used 3 decimals, as well as the raw value from the team selection page (instead of the displayed value rounded up to 1k). The "1% difference" on a 70k+ value is not hard to tell, it's 700+ points.

I still have a 10 hours cooldown on the booster; I'll update in the evening (or maybe tomorrow).

Pretty sure that's the case. That's the assumption I made in my simulator, and I've never noticed any discrepancies. Although I've been using a single Ginseng for a while, so maybe I just never double-checked with multiple Gin's.

Alright, I checked my test server account too.  I don't use it much, so I'm < lvl 100, lol, but I did have exactly 3x cords to use.  After testing 3x cords, I agree, that the booster's effect is added, unlike girl's blessings, which are multiplied.  The change is so small compared to multiplication, 1% to ~3.31%, that it wasn't obvious before, when looking at atk power rounded to the nearest thousand.  It's small, but probably makes a big difference, when also considering a headband, or AME.

My boosters will run out in ~16 hrs, so I'll observe their effect on base stats, whilst gradually adding 3x gins.

Then, on Sunday night, I usually equip 3x cords anyway, for when blessings change, so I'll observe their effect again w/ my actual atk power.

I do have base atk figured out, and understand it now.

It's just the (primary stat (including ginseng) + 1/4 of the total power of the team) * Dominatrix passive * Element bonus * Cordyceps (1.1, 1.2, or 1.3)

I checked my stats, team power, & passive, and it all added up properly.

47697 player's charm stat + (169084.83 total power/4) * 1.0679 Dominatrix Passive = 96077.05 Atk (96.1k)

If the effect of 3x gins is +18% to player stats, then my charm stat should drop to 40421.18, in 16 hrs after they run out, (3x gin charm stat/1.18).  Making my atk drop from 96k to 88.3k,  in leagues.  Meaning, 3x Gins gives me +7769 atk (after getting multiplied by the dominatrix passive), and 3x Cords gives me +26.5k atk.

40.42k base charm stat ((47.69k charm stat)/1.18, to remove the 3x Gin effect)
1/4 of 169k girl power = 42.2k
Dominatrix Passive = 6.79%

Atk w/ 3x Gins: 96.1k (I use this most of the time in leagues)

• 40.42k base charm * 1.18 (3x gins) = 47.67k
• 47.67k + 42.2k (1/4 girl power) = 89.96k
• 89.96k * 1.0679 (Dom passive) = 96.1k

Atk w/ 2x Gins + 1x Cord: 102.8k (many players use this constantly in leagues)

• 40.42k charm stat * 1.12 (2x gins) = 45.2k
• 45.2k + 42.2k (1/4 girl power) = 87.5k
• 87.5k * 1.0679 (Dom passive) = 93.48k
• 93.48k * 1.1 (1 cord) = 102.8k Atk

Atk w/ 1x Gin + 2 Cords: 109.1k (I never use this)

• 40.42k charm stat * 1.06 (1x gin) = 42.84k
• 42.84k + 42.2k (1/4 girl power) = 85.1k
• 85.1k * 1.0679 (Dom passive) = 90.89k
• 90.89k * 1.2 (2x cords) = 109.1k

Atk w/ 3x cords: 114.8k (the best for the pantheon, and also the simplest to calculate)

• 40.42k base charm + 42.2k (1/4 girl power) = 82.69k
• 82.69k * 1.0679 (Dom passive) = 88.3k
• 88.3k * 1.3 (3x cords) = 114.8k

Atk w/ 3x Cords & an AME: 132k (players aiming for DIII's top 4 in leagues use this)

• 40.42k base charm + 42.2k (1/4 girl power) = 82.69k
• 82.69k * 1.0679 (Dom passive) = 88.3k
• 88.3k * 1.3 (3x cords) = 114.8k
• 114.8k * 1.15 (AME) = 132k

Atk w/ 3x Cords & a Mythic Headband of Determination: 143.5k (used in the Pantheon at walls)

• 40.42k base charm + 42.2k (1/4 girl power) = 82.69k
• 82.69k * 1.0679 (Dom passive) = 88.3k
• 88.3k * 1.3 (3x cords) = 114.8k
• 114.8k * 1.25 (Headband) = 143.5k

If my understanding of gins is wrong, then my base atk might be off, but I gave it a shot.  I'll probably make a table later w/ all this.  I don't want to "jump the gun" again, like w/ "cords are multiplied."

Anyway, @EpicBacon started all this, and thanks to that, I have a slightly deeper understanding of boosters. 

If you tell me your:

• base primary stat (like charm) w/o ginseng boosters
• best team's total power
• dominatrix passive (up to 7%)

Then, I can tell you your Atk power, in the Pantheon w/ a mythic headband, w/o you spending 450 kobans.  I can't tell you your win % chance, cuz I don't even know where to begin to simulate that.  Figuring out your Atk w/ 3x cords + a Headband is the best I can do atm.  Sorry, if this was super long... I drank some coffee.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[EpicBacon]

My boosters runs out in 1h30min, is there any combination of boosters you want me to look at and screenshot?
Never hurts to cross check data

[Ravi-Sama]

1 minute ago, EpicBacon said:

My boosters runs out in 1h30min, is there any combination of boosters you want me to look at and screenshot?
Never hurts to cross check data

Screenshot your base stats w/o boosters, plus your atk in leagues.

Then, equip 3 ginseng, and check your atk in leagues again.

Plus, your total girl power & dominatrix passive bonus (that stuff remains constant, unless you change your team).

[EpicBacon]

1 minute ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Screenshot your base stats w/o boosters, plus your atk in leagues.

Then, equip 3 ginseng, and check your atk in leagues again.

Plus, your total girl power & dominatrix passive bonus (that stuff remains constant, unless you change your team).

Do you want it to be a high power team or a lower one?
With a high power team (above 100K atk) it seem to only count attack in the thousands, with a lower team it adds a decimal
Example - 117k vs 60.9k

I assume domiatrix passive bonus would mean the passive + active, if any active girls in the team is domi and gets the additional 2% per girl.

I'll do no boosters, and 1, 2 and 3 ginseng.

[Ravi-Sama]

Just now, EpicBacon said:

Do you want it to be a high power team or a lower one?
With a high power team (above 100K atk) it seem to only count attack in the thousands, with a lower team it adds a decimal
Example - 117k vs 60.9k

I assume domiatrix passive bonus would mean the passive + active, if any active girls in the team is domi and gets the additional 2% per girl.

I'll do no boosters, and 1, 2 and 3 ginseng.

Whichever you think is best.  The Dom passive vs. passive + active doesn't matter, as long as it remains constant.  Just keep the team the same.

[EpicBacon]

1 minute ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Whichever you think is best.  The Dom passive vs. passive + active doesn't matter, as long as it remains constant.  Just keep the team the same.

Yepperoni! Easy as pie!

[Ravi-Sama]

On 8/4/2022 at 10:48 AM, EpicBacon said:

How much does a headband improve the chances with?
It's only 25% attack power, correct? So it does nothing defensively.

Does it just add the 25% at the end? beginning?, is it based on girl stats? or your base?
Do anyone really know?

I am not looking for some deep study with historgrams and whatnot; just a general overview of what it does; and what I could expect it to do for me, like would it put me into "might pass 1600 this blessing"

Looking back at this, you'd probably have 170k atk, if you equipped the headband, using that same team.  Which is 2k more than the boss.  It does get multiplied at the end (1.25).  It's based on (your primary stat + 1/4 total girl stats) * dom passive * 3x cords (1.3) * Headband (1.25).

It was as simple as 136k * 1.25 = 170k Atk.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[EpicBacon]

2 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Screenshot your base stats w/o boosters, plus your atk in leagues.

Then, equip 3 ginseng, and check your atk in leagues again.

Plus, your total girl power & dominatrix passive bonus (that stuff remains constant, unless you change your team).

Stats + League screen with 0-3 ginsengs.

[Ravi-Sama]

15 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

Stats + League screen with 0-3 ginsengs.

Thanks.  The ginseng boost doesn't work they way we think.  It is +6%, +12%, & +18%, so technically addition, but not the way we think.  It's not +6%, +12.3%, & +19.1%, so not multiplication.

I figured it out.  It's kind of annoying, but it ignores the club bonus stat points.  It only boosts the sum of the points based on level, market bought, and equipment.  The club bonus is usually a constant solid 10%, so that's easy enough to guess, but not a guarantee for every player. 

You first have to multiply the primary stat w/o boosters, by 0.1 or 10% to guess the club bonus, then subtract it from the primary stat.  Then, the primary stat minus the 10% club bonus, is what gets boosted by +6%, +12%, or +18%.  If you ignore subtracting the club bonus, and just assume that your primary stat is boosted +6% to 18%, then it ends up looking like +5.45% to 16.3% instead.

Club bonus = (Level based + Market bought + Equipment) * 0.1.  It's ignored by the +6%-18% ginseng boost, then added in again, so it's included for the cordyceps boost, b/c that's applied afterwards.

Everything else works as expected.  Adding 1/4 of the total power, and multiplying it all by the Dom passive, worked out to ~100% of each atk displayed.

Atk = ((((KH - (KH * 10%)) * Gin Boost) + (KH * 10%)) + (1/4 Total Power)) * Dom Passive * Elemental * Cordyceps * (AME or Headband)

Edited August 7, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[EpicBacon]

27 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

The club bonus is usually a constant solid 10%, so that's easy enough to guess, but not a guarantee for every player.

 

A 10% of base stats I assume; and its added at the very end, so it does not feed into any other calculations?

Edit: Just a minor thing; but it would be really helpful if you could add in "thousands seperators"
in the spread sheet info, would make it.. well.. a thousand times easier to read

Edit 2: Nevermind I am dumb; the club bonus is equipment + marked + level, and its just 10% off that.

Edited August 6, 2022 by EpicBacon
Didn't want to make a new post for one comment :)

[Ravi-Sama]

20 minutes ago, EpicBacon said:

A 10% of base stats I assume; and its added at the very end, so it does not feed into any other calculations?
 

Yeah, club bonus = (Level based + Market bought + Equipment) * 0.1.  It's ignored by the +6%-18% ginseng boost, then added in again, so it's included for the cordyceps boost, b/c that's applied afterwards.

Atk = ((((KH - (KH * 10%)) * Gin Boost) + (KH * 10%)) + (1/4 Total Power)) * Dom Passive * Elemental * Cordyceps * (AME or Headband)

Edited August 6, 2022 by Ravi-Sama

[EpicBacon]

Just now, Ravi-Sama said:

Yeah, club bonus = (Level based + Market bought + Equipment) * 0.1.  It's ignored by the +6%-18% ginseng boost, then added in again, so it's included for the cordyceps boost, b/c that's applied afterwards.

Atk = ((((KH-(KH*10%))*Gin Boost)+(KH*10%))+(1/4 Total Power))*Dom Passive*Elemental*Cordyceps*AME

I literally just did the math and edited it

[EpicBacon]

I remember back in the day; when we were doing the math to figure out when legendary boosters became better then EPIC ones; since you needed a certain base level stat for the % to become better.

There were also some scenarios where you used a combination of both to get a bigger boost.
EPIC to get over the threshold for the legend ones to boos it even higher.

Edit: I meant epic of cource, no idea why i said rare boosters

Edited August 6, 2022 by EpicBacon
Changed "Rare" to "Epic"

[Ravi-Sama]

2 minutes ago, EpicBacon said:

I remember back in the day; when we were doing the math to figure out when legendary boosters became better then rare ones; since you needed a certain base level stat for the % to become better.

There were also some scenarios where you used a combination of both to get a bigger boost.
Rare to get over the threshold for the legend ones to boos it even higher.

I'll experiment w/ it later.  Might find some strange results, b/c the ginseng effect is multiplied by cordyceps.

[EpicBacon]

12 minutes ago, Ravi-Sama said:

I'll experiment w/ it later.  Might find some strange results, b/c the ginseng effect is multiplied by cordyceps.

this was years ago, I don't remember if it was on the forums or clubchat.
there was multiplication involved in that aswell; I do remember that part.
I guess once we passed the threshold and it bacame irrelevant, we stopped bothering about it.

[DvDivXXX]

On 8/5/2022 at 6:47 AM, Ravi-Sama said:

FYI, it's wrong about 3x cords being a 30% boost btw, it's actually 33.1%. 

21 hours ago, Liliat said:

So the cordyceps do not multiply with each other; they add.

 You guys did tons of back and forth tests and calculations since then, and Ravi came up with a much more detailed version of the complete formula (which I haven't checked against Sly's or the wiki's, admittedly, but you probably have). Still I'll confirm at least that part from my own observations.

Ravi's above quote: 0. Liliat's above quote: 1.

League before/after equipping three cordys (I initially meant to take one screenshot after each, but my conditioning to equip all three at once is too strong ^^), then Pantheon without touching anything else (I already had the Headband all along, but obviously it has no effect in League).

Base 104k-ish x 1.3 = 135k-ish. Additive. If it were multiplicative instead, it would look like 104k-ish x1.1 = 114.4k*ish -> x1.1 = 125.84k-ish -> x1.1 = 138.4k-ish. That's a 3k difference in this case, so it seems conclusive enough to me.

I know we had already established that before, but it's also clear that the Headband does multiply whatever my attack happens to be after everything else has been applied. Otherwise it would add 26k instead of 33k in this case.

Now, presumably, the AM works the same way in League, but I won't be able to confirm that with the above setting until Monday when I equip the next one.

PS: Thanks @FGoog for the pointers and everyone else for the extra food for fought. In my current situation, I'm afraid I've kind of wasted a Headband in a week where Blessings aren't strong enough for me to pass that Wall. But I'll keep switching things around this weekend to see if I can improve on my approach, at least.