new feature Daily Goals - now LIVE

[DvDivXXX]

Exactly, @Liliat is very right. This works just like daily quests in most games that have them, even HearthStone (I know it's always my default reference, but it's the main other game I've also been playing for years and that also has a reputation of being less than generous as far as F2P goes). If you happen to have two quests that include "play 3 games as Mage", then you complete both in one go by playing 3 games as Mage. Same thing here: you can have one goal that says "Play 2 Pantheon fights" and another one "Play 4 Pantheon fights". Contrary to PoA, you'll complete both of them by just playing 4 Pantheon fights. And so on. Tasks you can't, won't and/or don't need to do just get replaced automatically on the next reset, so there's no getting stuck with a bad roll either.

I must say, the new balance seems pretty fair to me now. We get 11 goals to pick from, and there's no point in reaching more than 100 points in total. So even if all of your 11 daily goals are common, and give 10 points each, you only need to complete 10 of them to unlock all the rewards. And common tasks are really easy and actually match Rosso's old promise of "just rewarding you for playing the game as you normally would anyway". That's surprisingly good and even... dare I say generous? 

I hope this is to make up for all of the terrible changes that were implemented first, and not to soften the blow of even worse future changes. Still, this is really good. And for now, I'm pretty glad and thankful for this. Gotta give praise when they do something right, and this was done very right. THANKS KINKOID. 👍

[Chrystoph]

3 hours ago, Liliat said:

Not necessarily: you often have similar goals of different rarities, which you can complete in parallel. For example, I need to win Seasons 10, 15 and 20 times, for a total of 60 Potions. So, 6 times the potions for 4 times the difficulty, compared to a single common "5 wins in seasons".

Apples and oranges comparison. Your comparison is a (potential, not guaranteed) summary of effort, not an evaluation of individual rewards.

If a "5 wins challenge" rewards 10 potions, then why would I think it was a good value for a "15 wins challenge" to produce 20 potions?

The Return on Investment (my time) has deprecated from 2 potions per win to 1 1/3 for an increased effort.

[blaa]

3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

I must say, the new balance seems pretty fair to me now. We get 11 goals to pick from, and there's no point in reaching more than 100 points in total. So even if all of your 11 daily goals are common, and give 10 points each, you only need to complete 10 of them to unlock all the rewards. And common tasks are really easy and actually match Rosso's old promise of "just rewarding you for playing the game as you normally would anyway". That's surprisingly good and even... dare I say generous? 

I hope this is to make up for all of the terrible changes that were implemented first, and not to soften the blow of even worse future changes. Still, this is really good. And for now, I'm pretty glad and thankful for this. Gotta give praise when they do something right, and this was done very right. THANKS KINKOID. 👍

i agree, if you take the feature for itself it looks good balanced (some tasks might need some rebalance, but that's okay, IMO). If you see Daily goals in the bigger picture it might disrupt the overall game balance even more. Now you need to save even more resources and do more planing, another variable you have to think about in your game plan. In most cases the resources you have to spent are not that needed in another place, i guess, but it's more about your mental resources: thinking about the game, investing time, not forgetting anything to do, ... Sometimes it will even affect your ingame resources, 4 spending koban tasks + 4 awakening tasks + get a girl, spend epic pachinko orb or whatever ...

That beiing said, I believe with recent changes the game is more and more heading in a direction where you have to give up playing all the features all the time (even veterans or people with a lot of resources), but to choose what you want to play (to reach your goal). For instance: I needed to fight champions yesterday cause of PoA, I had to use strong teams to prepare them for KC, I also needed them for daily missions (before reset), but today we get an eternal rivalary contest on nutaku. I could play it, if I am willing to spend a lot of nubans, but, realistically, I have to pass, just because I got 'forced' to. Another example is the overlapping of PoV, AME and Seasons. But that's to be discussed another time, i guess.

Yes, it looks like a good feature, well done. Saying this will make up for all of the terrible changes is too much though. It's at best giving us back what we lost (some would they: what they took from us) before (combativity for side quest/contest rewards, money for equip/champion ticket nerf, xp/aff for mythic books in market/raising level gap, (player xp probably the only one that's a plus). I somehow remember rosso saying something like this in one of the Q&As too: Daily goals will bring back what you lost and even more.

Edited January 26, 2022 by blaa

[JustVisitingReborn]

6 minutes ago, Chrystoph said:

The Return on Investment (my time) has deprecated from 2 potions per win to 1 1/3 for an increased effort.

On this one you're wrong.

Using @Liliat's example:

10 Season wins = 15 potions (1.5/win)
15 Season wins = 35 potions (2.33/win)
20 Season wins = 60 potions (3/win)

As the wins count against all 3 objectives the return actually improves by doing the 'harder' task. Putting in more 'effort' on the above has a greater return per win.

The objectives are very easy to complete and by the looks of things most days you're going to complete at least 2/3s of the total requirements doing things you would have already been doing anyway.

This feature is a total gift, requiring minimum additional effort for a lot of extra goodies, and I would caution against the community complaining about its structure based on semantic points that don't have a great deal of real world relevance. It validates the developers viewing negative community feedback is 'haters' (as has happened in the past) and ignoring it.

[JustVisitingReborn]

4 minutes ago, blaa said:

and do more planing

This I really agree with. As generous as I think DG are, this game is getting more and more time intensive. Realistically, there is only so much time that any average person can dedicate to this game and each of these new features stacks up those minutes.

[spinnie]

Free stuff for just doing what you always do, I like.

 

1 tiny little nitpick tho. Does it have to be the first tab in activities. This adds a 2nd click for the biggest reason to go into that window, the missions. Can daily goals and missions please swap places to avoid all those extra clicks?

[Liliat]

Even without the overlap, I don't see this as an issue, as you'll overshoot most Common tasks anyway (except the ones you really want to skip, such as playing Pachinko or Spending Kobans, unless this already nicely aligns with your daily plans). So if you have a "Defeat 5 villains" task for 10 potions, you'll end up defeating 48 villains anyway, and then the "Potions per villain" goes down drastically for this common task. If you have a "Spend 500k cash" task, same thing: just one stop at the market and you'll have spent several millions, just for 10 potions. Same amount of cash with a legendary task will give you 25 potions. Much better ratio. And to take my Seasons fights example again: I do 24 fights per day (Well, more like 14-34, depending on whether I want to save fights for a better day or not). Might as well go for 25 potions with a legendary goal, rather than 10 potions for the same effort (That I'll be doing anyway).

If we had to do all tasks every day to get the full rewards, that would certainly become an issue; but since it's not required, it's totally fine. Just skip the goals you can't complete (or the ones that aren't worth it), and you'll be fine.

Also, I'm pretty sure that with 11 goals per day and 20-ish different options, statistically, you'll almost always end up with overlaps.

il y a 2 minutes, spinnie a dit :

1 tiny little nitpick tho. Does it have to be the first tab in activities. This adds a 2nd click for the biggest reason to go into that window, the missions. Can daily goals and missions please swap places to avoid all those extra clicks?

I was initially thinking the same, but actually, missions can be done pretty quickly, and then there's no reason to get back there anymore. Regarding goals, however, it may take up to a few hours/half a day to have all the resources, and having it first will help you not forgetting about it (And will avoid unclaimed rewards). It takes some getting used to, for sure, but I think the current layout is better.

[spinnie]

14 minutes ago, Liliat said:

I was initially thinking the same, but actually, missions can be done pretty quickly, and then there's no reason to get back there anymore. Regarding goals, however, it may take up to a few hours/half a day to have all the resources, and having it first will help you not forgetting about it (And will avoid unclaimed rewards). It takes some getting used to, for sure, but I think the current layout is better.

Fair point, after thinking about it a little longer yea, I was probally to fast complain about that.

It would still be nice if something could be done about avoiding extra clicks, little bit off ui optimization considering how dynamic links can be with php. Something like, while you have missions, clicking activities opens up in that tab, but when you don't have missions, it opens up on the daily tasks.

Ahwell, something for the devs to maybe think about.

 

on topic, still like the feature overall!

[Bobick]

1 hour ago, spinnie said:

It would still be nice if something could be done about avoiding extra clicks

If you ask nicely, the masterminds of the user script (@Tom208 and Numbers - no idea how to ping him) may be willing to help you out.

[DvDivXXX]

Folks, no need to reply to the obvious troll who had the Dark Lord avatar anymore. He won't be able to read your feeds or troll us here ever again. Thanks.

@JustVisitingReborn I've removed your latest post since it no longer made sense without the troll post you were trying to reason with. Nothing personal, though.

[DvDivXXX]

Back on topic, I don't really see where this "more planning" scare comes from. I've literally accumulated more points than needed to unlock all 4 chests for both DGs so far, without putting any amount of effort into it for the full-blown one, and just a little bit (and very few, non-vital resources) for the one I chose to rush in under one hour before the reset.

I mean, there's even a goal that's literally "Finish your daily missions" for 15 points... I had two "Spend Money" including a legendary one, which required me to spend 1Msth Ymens, for 25 points. Buy like 4 or 5 items from the Market? 10 points. Sell 4 items? 10 points. Fight 4 Champions? 15 points... Win 20 League fights? 20 points. Virtually all of these are things most active players would have done within 24 hours anyway.

And again, we get 11 of these a day, and we only need to reach 100 points to win all 4 chests. And we'll have 24 nice and clean hours to reach those goals each day from now on. So it's really fair, and it hardly adds any planning at all to our usual routine imho.

[FinderKeeper]

29 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

I mean, there's even a goal that's literally "Finish your daily missions" for 15 points... I had two "Spend Money" including a legendary one, which required me to spend 1Msth Ymens, for 25 points. Buy like 4 or 5 items from the Market? 10 points. Sell 4 items? 10 points. Fight 4 Champions? 15 points... Win 20 League fights? 20 points. Virtually all of these are things most active players would have done within 24 hours anyway.

I recognize some of these - now they have lower requirements, and I hear MyP x3 and x6 got axed.

Here's latest list from discord test-server channel:

(I updated first post. You can see old list side by side with the new one)

Current list looks very doable.  And task selection didn't grow in difficulty with level.

[Zamioc Yuki]

I really do like the daily goal. This is kinda unexpected. It's very positive actually. I'm making most of the tasks without noticing it and some tasks can be the same but with different rarity which make it free potions to get basically. Here's on my HH alt:

I'm very pleased by the mythic items at the end: those are so needed! That's 213k affection per month from just playing the game basically. Just need to pay attention to the daily goals once at the end to see what you need but it can be done while completing the daily missions for example.

Anything I would like to see as improvement?

_Getting the daily goal tab as 3rd tab instead of 1st (somebody said something similar, sorry for not quoting) I'm used to have missions as opener, then in my head for clicking it's second = contest and last = PoP:

_A better communication. Like we had a board for the gems for the awakening update, an official list of all the goals would have been appreciated. For what I see, players gathered their infos again. I spent they day explaining to my club friends how daily goals work ans I discovered it almost at the same time as them 😂 and had to play the detective 😒

_Balance? Maybe? I don't know yet. I've heard that some stuff have already been change so I'll wait before sharing any opinion

[Attirm]

Looking at the final list of goals, most of these are absolutely trivial in the course of ordinary play. The removal of the x3/x6 mythic goals and the reduction in the difficulty of some of the others definitely takes the edge off, and I anticipate that the majority of days these are basically going to be login bonuses for active players. However, it definitely is possible to get bad goal lists. In particular, Affection upgrades, Awakenings, and Pachinko orbs require resources to be lined up ahead of time and it's definitely possible to get a slew of these. I had a mild case of that today, with 4 pachinko goals and 2 awakening goals, so I ended up awakening 2 girls and spending 1 epic and 1 mythic orb to get my reward.

The one that really sticks out to me are the Awakening and Affection goals, which require you to keep girls lined up and waiting for upgrade. At this point it's unclear how many we need to keep around, but I think it's prudent to have at least some affection scenes left available to unlocking just in case.

[Boulie2]

For now, i think the DG are very generous for what they ask you (ie. doing whatever you were already doing anyway)

Not complaining, but the "free" mythic xp AND affection around 95% of the time (i guess there WILL be time where rng stop you) seems quite strong.

Op even. I hope it doesn't mean an increase in the quantity of xp and aff in the future, but all in all atm it seems to be quite the generous features 

(TBH, at first i was expecting to see Koban on the last chest and was disappointed to not see them. Then i saw the mythics items and realised that it was more koban than what i was expecting. Granted, Koban already used on lvl 1 items but still koban)

Alright, the xp for the player is "low", but for me rn this is a good trade off

 

 

... And obviously, right as i'm saying something good, my rewards bugged.  

4 White missions, 3 Greens, for a total of 85... And the game only give me 40.

I swear i was trying to be positive  

[Pelinor]

Okay, yes, I am miffed that the Daily Goals feature uses Potions and that the promised Gems reward is totally absent (why?). But I also love the rest of the feature. You get free stuff as long as you actually play the game instead of simply making an appearance. To me, this type of feature is better than the PoP.

What I don't get is why the feature is released with unresolved bugs which were reported during the testing phase. The biggest is the "must log out and then log back in" bug to reset the timer. If you don't do this then you get results like this one:

Despite the fact that the "daily goal" was completed as shown

So now confusion is created. Why?

[Liliat]

Il y a 1 heure, natstar a dit :

Try logging out and back in.

Unfortunately, I think you need to do that *before* completing your missions, and not after. So if your goals don't show up immediately on reset => Logout. Don't start anything before your goals are clearly there.

[blaa]

6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Back on topic, I don't really see where this "more planning" scare comes from. I've literally accumulated more points than needed to unlock all 4 chests for both DGs so far, without putting any amount of effort into it for the full-blown one, and just a little bit (and very few, non-vital resources) for the one I chose to rush in under one hour before the reset.

I mean, there's even a goal that's literally "Finish your daily missions" for 15 points... I had two "Spend Money" including a legendary one, which required me to spend 1Msth Ymens, for 25 points. Buy like 4 or 5 items from the Market? 10 points. Sell 4 items? 10 points. Fight 4 Champions? 15 points... Win 20 League fights? 20 points. Virtually all of these are things most active players would have done within 24 hours anyway.

And again, we get 11 of these a day, and we only need to reach 100 points to win all 4 chests. And we'll have 24 nice and clean hours to reach those goals each day from now on. So it's really fair, and it hardly adds any planning at all to our usual routine imho.

unfortunately, i have to quote you again, nothing personal though.

It's not a scare (nice reframing, unfortunately not in a good way, cause it's unnecessary and uncalled-for), it's how people see it and what they argue for (and it's not a counter to call it scare, especially not because you feel or think it is). Problem is, we might differ in our verdict about 'what's more'. But, I know, no "semantic"-discussion, even though that makes or breaks the point, IMO.

I gave already an example where I see DG interfering with other activities and hence requires thinking and planing. There are many more, obv. For instance doing season fights: No, I cant do seasons fights on many days a month, just because I have to plan for KC (stacked kisses, e.g. from the end of the month to first KC) or cause I need to use AME for leagues. No, I dont spend on a regular basis GXP (I need 76k for 50 level for a common girl, when I upgrade a girl that actually is helpful for my game plan) and I dont do awakenings on a regular basis. No, i dont fight champions on a regular basis (even though a few fights wont hurt, obv). And, no, i dont get a girl everyday and i don refresh my market everyday, I also dont spend kobans everyday or play pachinko every day. These tasks I only do on certain days. Now, with DG, there are more dasy I have to to some of these task too. 

Yes, of course, that's not a game breaker whatsoever (nobody claimed that), but it's additional planing, checking, thinking. And, like people say, many a little makes a mickle (hopefully i got this right :D). Yes, again, the feature for itself is nice, well done, but there isnt a contradiction to saying both: it's nice, but also has some problems in some regards. It's not just "great" or "bad". I dont see why everybody should like this feature in all his aspects and consequences for all aspects of the game and his personal playing style.

I dont think your anecdote of your one or two time DG is a really good argument. Glad you got easy tasks, other had bad tasks to get 5 chests (I already had to spent over 1000 gems for instance (and even more if I wouldnt have other tasks on the 2nd day), also 75k GXP on a non-contest day). And, yes, we get 11 tasks and chances are (maybe even most of the time) you get some easy tasks which require non- or almost non-additional spending/doing, but there will be setups of 11 tasks which will require planing - if you want to optimise your game (you can say, ofc, fuck it, i dont have to finish DG every day and being the best in every contest, etc.).

All I am saying, it's not the non-planing, non-thinking feature where everybody just gains something for doing nothing, it's a little bit more complex than that, especially if you see the big picture/your overall game plan (if you asume, you optimise your play). That's not scary at all, it just consumes more resources.

This also means, IMO, KK should focus more on QoL-stuff than other new, exciting features in the next time (market overwork is QoL btw).

 

[Liliat]

il y a 17 minutes, blaa a dit :

also 75k GXP on a non-contest day

Why not spend that on cheap trash girls? (Assuming this was a "level up" goal) You'll end up spending only ~2k XP and you'll get more than that from the actual rewards? It's slightly less optimal to reach lvl 750 (Since you "waste" XP on trash girls), but it's more optimal contest-wise.

If it's an Awakening goal, then more planing required indeed (I already awakened all my lvl 550 girls to 551, unless I didn't have enough gems, a few days ago. I regret that choice ). We'll need to keep some girls ready.

[blaa]

13 minutes ago, Liliat said:

Why not spend that on cheap trash girls? (Assuming this was a "level up" goal) You'll end up spending only ~2k XP and you'll get more than that from the actual rewards? It's slightly less optimal to reach lvl 750 (Since you "waste" XP on trash girls), but it's more optimal contest-wise.

If it's an Awakening goal, then more planing required indeed (I already awakened all my lvl 550 girls to 551, unless I didn't have enough gems, a few days ago. I regret that choice ). We'll need to keep some girls ready.

yeah, i could do that (and I thought about it too and I will do it from time to time, I guess), but it's not optimal and I dont like to 'waste' even that tiny bit. It's the same way I dont waste kobans on champions, for money collect or for a 'small' refill just to get a task faster done or whatsoever. To go even further: I could also say: Why dont you spend the 30 nubans for the koban task, you have more than enough (60k)? It's just not a helpful, efficient, optimal way of playing, and that's what I dont like.

I had to awaken 3 voyeur common (350 each) from 650-651, but i dont regret it yet since we dont need the awakening for something else than DG and eventually, I have to awaken them (to reach 750). There will be times when awakening is a no-go and you can only hope you get better tasks beside (or you have to invest at least for this time more than you are usually willing to).

edit: to get back to my former post: Maybe someone should try to play the game without looking on DG for a few days/weeks (or just look on it 30 seconds before reset) and count how often they actually get 5 chests with their "regular" game play.

Edited January 27, 2022 by blaa

[Pelinor]

2 hours ago, natstar said:

Try logging out and back in.

The example I posted is AFTER I did the logout/login. And no, I don't care about it since I was able to complete the "Daily Goals." This was posted to ask the question "why?" The bug was there, it was reported, and instead of taking time to fix it the report was ignored. @NoaccGems were promised as an award for this feature, hell, they even made a chart to show it!

The gems were removed with no explanation, and for no observable reason. Being that the gems were the ONLY thing promised the question is again "Why?"

Edited January 27, 2022 by Pelinor
pinging Noacc

[blaa]

7 minutes ago, Pelinor said:

The example I posted is AFTER I did the logout/login. And no, I don't care about it since I was able to complete the "Daily Goals." This was posted to ask the question "why?" The bug was there, it was reported, and instead of taking time to fix it the report was ignored. Gems were promised as an award for this feature, hell, they even made a chart to show it!

The gems were removed with no explanation, and for no observable reason. Being that the gems were the ONLY thing promised the question is again "Why?"

oh, i couldnt remember that, nice catch. Probably: Because we cant show more than 5 rewards there, so it's technically impossible to give you even more (same answer as for the combativity removal by side quests).

I dont think you will get an answer here, you could ping noacc (here or on discord) or write an support ticket. The best option would be with noacc, i guess.

btw. about the timer bug etc. noacc already said there are people on it to fix it. At least for that we'll get a fix soon.

Edited January 27, 2022 by blaa

[45026831]

HH++ v0.37.46 now forces the Activities button to go to Missions instead of Daily Goals

Style Tweaks v0.4.0 restyles Daily Goals so less scrolling is needed.

[Moonlynx]

Way too easy, way too generous. And the players like it! Kinkoid has to do something about this, fast!

I'll take what I can get. But I'm waiting for the unavoidable nerf. Or the rubberband effect. Whatever happens first.

Btw - I appreciate the additional XP source. The devs promised to make catching up to the high level players something that's actually achievable. And some of the recent changes really work towards that goal. The shitload of XP we're getting is part of this, just like the awakening stuff. And even the advantages for paying players over F2P players seem to be somewhat well balanced from my point of view. Credit where credit is due.

[Incubys]

2 hours ago, Pelinor said:

The example I posted is AFTER I did the logout/login. And no, I don't care about it since I was able to complete the "Daily Goals." This was posted to ask the question "why?" The bug was there, it was reported, and instead of taking time to fix it the report was ignored. @NoaccGems were promised as an award for this feature, hell, they even made a chart to show it!

The gems were removed with no explanation, and for no observable reason. Being that the gems were the ONLY thing promised the question is again "Why?"

Maybe it's because where gems are available from have already been amended, as all gems are now available from Villains and PoPs, rather then the limited ones mentioned on the chart.

Would you want the gems added to the existing rewards, or to replace one (or more) of them ?