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Awakenings & Leagues - Comparing Different Strategies


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I'm not 100% sure this is the right place to post this, so mods if you feel this would be better off elsewhere please feel free to move.

There's no great insight to this post, I just noticed something and felt like sharing. Here's the current top 9 in my D3 bracket (Nutaku):

image.thumb.png.29ae674e9c025b303d6c884400a24b16.png

What I noticed is that the players in positions 3, 5 and 7 all appear to be going for a Mythic exclusionary strategy. Each has a Mythic only team on a week where there is only a single Mythic in the top 7. All are clearly levelled to their Awakening max (550, 600 and 600). I know it's early in the week, but from the above I'd postulate that this strategy is working. There are 10 players at level 490+ and TheGlider would be the lowest level of them. So each of the players pursuing this strategy is - currently - outperforming the order that would naturally be expected (level decending).

There's only one other player in this bracket that appears to be pursuing this strategy and they're only Awakened to level 500 are only at player level 424 and are correspondingly a lot lower positioned (actually 60 positions below me and I could score 20pt wins on them right now).

My point in this is broadly that 3 of the 4 players using a Mythic exclusionary strategy in my D3 bracket are currently placed in the top 10. A fairly strong endorsement of that approach imo.

What I also find interesting from a personal perspective is that I have NOT pursued this strategy, but will be able to field a team of 6 Mythics at level 600 before the next Blessing change and 7 when a new Mythic is available in the next weekish.

I'm hoping top 15 results may not be too far away.....

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29 minutes ago, JustVisitingReborn said:

My point in this is broadly that 3 of the 4 players using a Mythic exclusionary strategy in my D3 bracket are currently placed in the top 10. A fairly strong endorsement of that approach imo.

I did some calculations to have something more concrete.

Let's say you are a player who started with their entire harem grandfathered to level 500. How many gems and girl XP would it require to reach level 650 with their battle teams and level 600 with common girls?

Let's compare three different strategies:

  • one with 7 level 650 mythics and 63 level 600 commons,
  • one with 12 level 650 mythics and 58 level 600 commons, and
  • one with 10 level 650 mythics, 25 level 650 legendaries and 35 level 600 commons.

The 7-mythic strategy will use 21875 gems to upgrade the mythics and 22050 gems to upgrade the commons, totalling 43925 gems.

The 12-mythic strategy will use 37500 gems to upgrade the mythics and 20300 gems to upgrade the commons, totalling 57800 gems.

The 10 mythic, 25 legendary strategy will use 31250 gems to upgrade the mythics, 62500 gems to upgrade the legendaries and 12250 gems to upgrade the commons, totalling 106000 gems.

Yes. Going all-in on a single team of mythics is much, much cheaper gems-wise (2.41 times).

 

The 7-mythic strategy will use 3212615 XP for the mythics and 3887541 XP for the commons, totalling 7.1M XP.

The 12-mythic strategy will use 5507340 XP for the mythics and 3579006 XP for the commons, totalling 9.1M XP.

The 10-mythic 25 legendary strategy will use 4589450 XP for the mythics, 4590575 XP for the legendaries and 2159745 XP for the commons, totalling 11.3M XP.

So again, cheaper. But not by a whole lot, "only" 1.59 times.

 

If XP isn't the limiting factor, the all-in on mythics gets you much further, maybe enough so that it counteracts the loss from not having blessed girls as often. Or at least, it requires a lot more careful selection of teams and so on with which to battle. But if XP is a limiting factor, I'd hazard to say having some amount of variety in the available girls is worth having that somewhat slower progression. I can't really produce an exact formula to tell where the ideal harem composition is for each girl XP and gem availability, though. It gets very complicated beyond some generalizations.

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5 hours ago, JustVisitingReborn said:

I'm not 100% sure this is the right place to post this, so mods if you feel this would be better off elsewhere please feel free to move.

Honestly, I'm a bit on the fence. It's an interesting side discussion that has a fair bit to do with League strategy, and @Rarum's reply is interesting too and more potential conversation could be nice. But I don't think we should make it too big if this stays within this traditional "League Addicts Anonymous" thread which should remain primarily about sharing our respective experiences and thoughts week by week. At the same time, I'm not sure where to move this or if it'll grow into a big enough discussion to hold its own as a separate thread either. So yeah, I'm 50/50 on whether or not to move it, or where. In any case, all of the active HH EN mods are also members of this LAA thread, so if/when it grows too big to stay here, splitting it to its own thread won't be an issue. ^^

I'd like to add two points to your premise, though, one crucial and one less so but still important:

  1. Top 10 or Top anything means NOTHING this early in the week. Don't read too much into it; literally none of those 9 players in your screenshot have actually achieved anything this week yet, except burning some refills earlier than most. Come Thursday morning, none of them might even be in the actual Top 15 for all we know (and it wouldn't be unusual at all). It would be much more interesting and useful to take any of our regular "final screenshots" as a starting point instead.
     
  2. Awakening strategies are not as cleanly divided or as strictly followed by most competitive players as the hypothetical extremes you're using for reference here (and as we discussed a few times before, IIRC). There are exceptions, the most typical ones being whales VIP Customers, but many of us still adapt, adjust our course, change our minds and go back to the drawing board, and so on. For instance, I started out very early on with something pretty close to the "slowly, steadily and tediously awaken all of my 5+ star girls altogether" extreme. Then it hit me that this was going to be a disaster short and mid term in my position, and I almost switched to the other extreme of focusing mainly on my 7 Mythics and tons of cheap fodder instead. Now I'm still closer to the latter than the former, but not strictly. I still keep my strongest 5* legendaries up to speed, especially when they're (double-)blessed, like Layla recently, Lapis and Sai this week, and Blet for next week (on HH). Otherwise, I still focus on my long-term Mythic team first and foremost (with the other caveat that I recently realized that my one White and even my two Greens won't make the final cut, and I plan on replacing them with top-tier colors slowly but surely, especially now that MDRs are back and I can at least somewhat plan for that, contrary to regular MD that's always a surprise, ready or not).

TL;DR: It's not as black and white as it might look, at least for good players who don't happen to throw a ton of real-money at the game to make it so. And sooner or later, most of us will have unlocked the final Awakening, and at that point other factors will be rediscovered by many players, like Player Level, Blessings, and a case by case approach to each league, and each fight within each league, even. I wouldn't worry too much about Uncle $crooge's full team of Level 750 Mythics in the long run. They might be scary strong most weeks for now, and they can enjoy a few months of winning D3 until the rest of us catch up, but they'll get what's coming to them eventually. ;) 

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I decided to calculate what's the point where the gem costs are pretty much identical between the all-in on mythics versus a relatively all-round strategy, assuming again a starting point of level 500 for all girls.

It turns out you can get 7 mythics to level 700 and 78 common girls to level 650 for pretty much exactly the gem price of getting 11 mythics to level 650, 26 legendaries to level 650 and 33 commons to level 600. Those don't seem even that far off power-wise since the more all-round one can better take advantage of blessings.

Girl XP wise we are looking at 14325438 for the level 700 mythic strategy, and 11858924 for the level 650 all-round strategy.

Now let's look at how much additional cost that girl XP would mean. Let's say a market refresh gives an average of 12250 XP. With the difference in girl XP for the strategies being 2466514, you'd be looking at 201.3 market restocks, for a cost of 1409 Nubans or 8457 Kobans. Real money wise that could be bought with about 60 euros. All for the convenience of not having to think about the team all that much. Of course you could push that power difference further to actually meaningful territory by buying gem bundles.

 

Another comparison. Let's say the all-in mythic strategist has gotten to level 750 with their mythics and 700 with commons. How far can an all-rounder get with the same amount of gems?

It turns out the all-rounder can get 11 mythics and 27 legendaries to level 700, and 47 commons to level 650. This time the girl XP difference is 4231297, which translates to 2418 Nubans or 14507 Kobans.

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11 hours ago, Rarum said:

It turns out the all-rounder can get 11 mythics and 27 legendaries to level 700, and 47 commons to level 650. This time the girl XP difference is 4231297, which translates to 2418 Nubans or 14507 Kobans.

I am not so sure, how much us these comparisons tell in the end. We should at least know, IMO; how often the 2nd guy has a stronger team than the first guy. Also: How much of an advantage has the first guy over the 2nd cause he can upgrade blessed 5* strategical (after blessings) to 750 anytime, but the other guy has to upgrade at least another 62 common girls (21,700 gems, 4,7M GXP) to just being able to reach 750, what would also need a lot of resources. So, what I am really interessted about, how often will the 2nd player gain advantage over the first and how fast will this change cause the 1st player can now out level the 2nd strategically?

If we wanna make a decision with the data: We also have to think about how we decide 'how to play'. One reasons could be how we want to play. For instance, it's a decision between do I want a strong team that has a solid standard power despite what RNG decides to bless or do I want a more wide spread team which might have more often blessed girls but it might still not be enough to beat the strong team in many leagues. It also depends on how other players decide to upgrade their harems. If most players dont go for strong teams but more widespread, it might be a good reason to do the same. Another reason could be how likely we get the resources for all that (do you have enough kobans to refresh market for XP, for instance; also f2p players (and non-market-refresh-spending players) are far way to reach that level anyway)? And how to choose the girls? Easiest way might be to get the top3 girls (regarding likelihood of them being blessed) of each element? But we also have to consider how much gems from one element I get cause of the way I play, ...

I am not sure yet which way I choose, but currently I am heading to the stop at 700 strategy and go for some more 5*. What I have experienced so far in league is either I have a high roller (no chances) or I do fight players with an average team composition where my team is way too strong (to get a victory). Seems reasonable to me to spread the levels over more girls than to focus on 750.

Edited by blaa
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10 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Honestly, I'm a bit on the fence.

I'll leave it in your capable hands :)

 

10 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Top 10 or Top anything means NOTHING this early in the week.


Totally agree. I realise that may not have come through in my previous post, but I really was just looking to start a conversation that I thought might be interesting. I'll be happy to post the end results to give an idea of how things actually play out. It'd be interesting if others looked as well!
 

11 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Awakening strategies are not as cleanly divided or as strictly followed by most competitive players as the hypothetical extremes you're using for reference here (and as we discussed a few times before, IIRC).

I agree and you're correct - you have provided more detail on your approach previously.

My point wasn't really to suggest that some really competitive players were taking this path to the absolute extreme. What I was musing on was the fact that *this week* the Blessings are such that the players pursuing some version of this strategy stand out like a sore thumb (the optimum team is almost entirely Legendary, so the only reason to have 7 Mythics in is if you don't have the Legendaries upgraded to the point where they're better than your Mythics). That allowed me to quickly see who was going down this road and see roughly how they were doing at this point.

In truth, while I think this strategy *can* be used well, though I'd agree with you that it would be very unusual for the most extreme version of it to be the best choice, I'm not actually convinced that the players in question here are getting the most out of it. The advantages to this strategy are that you get your Mythics far enough ahead quickly enough that they make the weekly Blessings somewhat redundant. These players have their Mythics at level 550/600. Today, I've upgraded all my Mythics to level 600. For focusing on Mythics, these players just aren't that far ahead of where I am (or at all really). Next week is a bad Blessing week for me, but I'll be able to field 1xBlessed 600 Mythic, 4x600 Mythics and 2xBlessed 600 Legendaries. That team will be stronger than the pure Mythic team that these player's are fielding after the Blessing.

Of course, the assumption that they are pursuing this strategy intentionally could be erroneous. It may be the case that these players just don't pay any attention to the Blessings and field a team of pure Mythics just because they (mis)understand them to be the strongest girls.....

 

12 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

And sooner or later, most of us will have unlocked the final Awakening, and at that point other factors will be rediscovered by many players, like Player Level, Blessings, and a case by case approach to each league, and each fight within each league, even. I wouldn't worry too much about Uncle $crooge's full team of Level 750 Mythics in the long run. They might be scary strong most weeks for now, and they can enjoy a few months of winning D3 until the rest of us catch up, but they'll get what's coming to them eventually. ;) 

And this. 👍 I could not agree more. The strategy discussion is a short term decision that fades away as people start hitting those level caps.




 

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This seems interesting enough and the participation of @Rarum alone basically guarantees tons of data analysis too (and hopefully beautiful abstract masterpieces cold hard math graphs :x), plus several of us already have more questions and points on this topic (Edit: pinging @blaa as well so he sees this thread too), so I went ahead and split it into its own thread. This way, we can discuss this as much as we want without worrying about disturbing the peace of our LAA (League Addicts Anonymous) meetings. 👍

PS: JVB @JustVisitingReborn, you're the OP of this thread, so you should be able to change the title and/or tags if you want, simply by editing your first post. I just went with something that made sense to me, but feel free to adjust it however you prefer.

Edited by DvDivXXX
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3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

the participation of @Rarum alone basically guarantees tons of data analysis too

Curses that you would "promise" something like that for me. It's far from trivial to get even remotely definitive answers to the question of which strategy was better. It might take days to set up such a simulation, and there are always going to be some disagreement about its specifics. With that said, I'll see what I can do. I am indeed myself also intrigued, and maybe the time is ripe to produce and publish some data, even knowing it might be used against me somehow.

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21 hours ago, Rarum said:

It turns out you can get 7 mythics to level 700 and 78 common girls to level 650 for pretty much exactly the gem price of getting 11 mythics to level 650, 26 legendaries to level 650 and 33 commons to level 600

That second option is pretty similar to what I'm doing, as I explained here. But I'm not using so many legendaries, just 16. So far I'm quite happy with my choice.

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The 7-mythic strategy is definitely a lot cheaper in terms of Gems. I'll add my voice as another person who has spreadsheeted it (for the 450 grandfather, as that was where I was) and I can confirm it costs way less Gems. By my spreadsheeting, a free player who was grandfathered to level 450 and efficiently pursues a 7-mythic strategy will reach level 750 some time in March. By comparison, if they follow a more balanced Legendary-focused strategy they can expect to reach level 750 some time between May and July. That's a long period where you have a fairly substantial level advantage.

However, there are a few hiccups to this strategy. The first is that Gems are not the bottleneck past girl level 500. It's GXP and books that are your bottleneck, and the 7-mythic strategy actually ends up requiring more books since it's leveling up so quickly. I'm personally using a slower strategy, and I'm still doing around 100 shop refreshes per month. That is a a lot of kobons, and the all-mythic strategy would need to spend far more than I am. The faster you level up, the more shop refreshes you need to spend, and 7-Mythic needs to spend the most. That directly eats into your league winnings, and it's very hard to analyze how profitable that investment is, since league placements are themselves a moving target as other players also get stronger with you.

The reason this is most noticeable at the upper echelons of D3 is because the kobon rewards for top-4 placements are high enough to make that investment worthwhile. Once you step even one rung below that, to top-15 D3, it becomes less clear whether rushing higher levels is worth it. Holding top-15 for a month where you would have otherwise gotten top-30 is worth about 100 shop refreshes. So if you can save yourself 150 shop refreshes... you're better off just accepting a lower league placement.

However, there's another reason that the all-mythic approach is so strong, and I discussed it here: https://forum.kinkoid.com/index.php?/topic/21754-thoughts-on-the-distribution-of-girl-qualities/

The issue is that there are simply too many qualities that are eligible for blessings, and many of them have incredibly poor distribution. I'm running a balanced strategy with 25 legendaries and 2 mythics and I frequently have weeks where less than half my team is blessed. The odds that the week's blessings will just happen to fall on the girls I'm working on are fairly low as it is, but even if I could work on all my legendaries there are still many weeks where none of them are blessed. With blessings being so inconsistent, it makes sense to just focus on the strongest girls. Mythics have a 14-20% stat advantage over legendaries, and that's basically like having a weak blessing permanently in effect. Given how often there are weeks where blessings just do not matter at all, going for the best base stats and neglecting everything else isn't going to be punished.

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Okay, because I don't have a life, I've managed to make some kind of a simulation already. Here's a description of what happens in it:
A level 700 mythic team goes up against a level 650 all-round team, and vice versa. This is done in every blessing combination there is, and the average battle score in each blessing is averaged over the number of blessings. I'm always assuming the player has an AME, two cordyceps and a ginseng on, and that the opponent is unboosted.

I chose levels 650 and 700 for comparison because 650 is where I'm currently at, so it makes these reasonable points for a free-to-play player to be at. However, the decision to somewhat utilize my stats also means the player level is 469, which might be a bit unrealistic for a free-to-play player to manage a 7-mythic strategy since it costs so much. Oh, well.

The girls selected for the simulations are actual ones. For the 7-mythic strategy, they are Matcha, Level up Red, Undercover Valentina, New Year Estelle, Radka, Royal Housemaid and Alexa. I omitted considering the two mythics that came after the awakenings were introduced. I believe this is a pretty good selection of mythics.

For the all-round strategy, the mythics selected were Matcha, Level up Red, Undercover Valentina, New Year Estelle, Radka, Royal Housemaid, Alexa, Golden Lupa, High Mage Arcana, Nike and Bunna. As for the legendaries, they are all 5-star legendaries with max base sum of 25.00, except for Treasure Flynn and Eliana. Also various common and starting girls were selected but modelled as having a max base sum of 19 (I couldn't be bothered to use real stats there). I *guess* there's a slight bit of bias toward this side, since I didn't only select legendaries that were introduced before awakenings.

I've been feeling that even outside of this specific simulation there's maybe slight error against the playful element in my calculations currently but that's not a substantial enough effect to invalidate the general finding. But beyond that, if we assume I didn't make mistakes in writing this fairly delicate simulation, here are my findings.

All-round team's average across all blessings: 22.989 (when the highest raw power team is always chosen)
Mythic team's average across all blessings: 22.192 (when using the same 7 mythics in every blessing)

I suppose it does make sense. The all-round team also has mythics, only at 50 levels lower. That's a power difference of just 7.7% more for the level 700 mythic team even in the worst case scenario. It would require a very low amount of blessings that affected other girls than what's in the 7-mythic team for that power difference to be enough to justify the all-in strategy.

I'm also trying to figure out just how much team switching can help the all-round player. However, after an hour or so of number crunching, the page crashed (after having consumed a lot of memory, hmm). Clearly I'll have to implement some kind of stochastic selection of blessings to test because brute force doesn't seem very workable.

Edited by Rarum
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This will be a very interesting discussion for me, as I'm free to play, but was a bit late to start getting Mythics, so I started behind in that regard. My plan was the all-around plan as getting 7 Mythics to 6* was a problem at first, although I'm getting there.

I feel the all-round team has an advantage in Seasons for garnering small bits of free girl XP. You have more girls to pick from to level up, and you have the ability to switch girls in and out who are at almost identical power levels when one maxes out. 

The monkey wrench I want to throw into the discussion is the presence of 5* Epics, since the Epics often show up in the top 7 when blessed.  There are only 2, but in my mind, they are pretty important girls to have in the mix, for the weeks when they are highly placed.

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4 hours ago, Rarum said:

The girls selected for the simulations are actual ones. For the 7-mythic strategy, they are Matcha, Level up Red, Undercover Valentina, New Year Estelle, Radka, Royal Housemaid and Alexa. I omitted considering the two mythics that came after the awakenings were introduced. I believe this is a pretty good selection of mythics.

For the all-round strategy, the mythics selected were Matcha, Level up Red, Undercover Valentina, New Year Estelle, Radka, Royal Housemaid, Alexa, Golden Lupa, High Mage Arcana, Nike and Bunna. As for the legendaries, they are all 5-star legendaries with max base sum of 25.00, except for Treasure Flynn and Eliana. Also various common and starting girls were selected but modelled as having a max base sum of 19 (I couldn't be bothered to use real stats there). I *guess* there's a slight bit of bias toward this side, since I didn't only select legendaries that were introduced before awakenings.

What are your thoughts on the Royal Housemaid here? This is the only Mythic short of a Blessing (has 'Unknown' hair colour). I'd assume that this favours the all-round team. Where hair colour comes up the all-round team will always select the girl that is best, but the 7-Mythic will always have a lower chance of hitting the Blessing. Do you feel this is likely to skew the data to any meaningful manner?

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1 hour ago, JustVisitingReborn said:

What are your thoughts on the Royal Housemaid here? This is the only Mythic short of a Blessing (has 'Unknown' hair colour). I'd assume that this favours the all-round team. Where hair colour comes up the all-round team will always select the girl that is best, but the 7-Mythic will always have a lower chance of hitting the Blessing. Do you feel this is likely to skew the data to any meaningful manner?

She's the mythic with less odds to be in a week's top 7, but still more than any other girl who's not a mythic. She's also a dominatrix, which is the best element and I think that evens out a little.

FWIW, this is my current sheet with the top girls I'm working on, and their current level:

 

image.png

The chance to be in top 7 was copied from @zoopokemon's girld data some time ago and I just keep the top most girls up to date, so it's bound to have errors, but it's more than enough for my needs.

I'd like to have the "chance to be in top 3 of his element", but I guess following the top 7 global chance and choosing the top 3 of that element is a good aproximation.

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After around 1600 blessings, my simulation had converged to an average of about 23.142 (the last digit isn't very converged yet) for the situation of using my optimal team finder in the level 650 teams vs. the balanced 7 level 700 mythics team situation. For comparison, I got an average of 22.989 when the highest raw power team was always chosen. Unsurprisingly, this is not nearly as significant advantage as having a good spread of girls to choose from in the first place.

However, it's already about a whole point more than when using the 7-mythic team strategy. In 13 out of 31 leagues I have good enough records of after awakenings were introduced, 0.95 more in your average would have been enough to bump you up from the top 15 rewards to top 1. That's huge. For comparison, 0.8 points (the difference without my optimal team finder) would have been enough to bump you up from the top 15 rewards to top 1 only 6 times out of the 31.

And in 8 out of 32 records, 0.15 (what you gain from choosing your team carefully) was less than the difference between the first and second place players' averages.

 

5 hours ago, Kenrae said:

I'd like to have the "chance to be in top 3 of his element", but I guess following the top 7 global chance and choosing the top 3 of that element is a good aproximation.

A-ha! I actually do that personally. And it only takes into account the girls I do have instead of assuming you have every girl in the game. Great minds think alike, eh?

Besides those two types of ranking, I can sort girls of each element separately by their max base sum for the current blessing, next blessing and unblessed. And of course sort all girls by their current damage, damage in the next blessing or unblessed (or the same by the max base sum). And by their champion damage by each pose. And by their level, required gems to upgrade to current cap... Well, you get the idea.

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I managed to squeeze out more numbers from my simulations. I simulated a level 500 player using the level 650 girls with the strategy of always selecting best raw power ones, and got an average of 23.157 against the 7-mythic player across every blessing. So about 30 levels seems to be about how much advantage I can close with careful team and equipment selection. Actually somewhat more, since we've thus far assumed a balanced enemy team.

If I fight without an AME, I get about 22.069 for average (at player level 469). And since otherwise we can't compare easily, I redid the level 500 calculation without an AME too, and got an average of 22.30.

Another "fun" number is 19.511, which I got with no boosters at all at player level 469. Any regular D3 player already knows that boosters matter a lot, though.

Edited by Rarum
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I'm posting this now as come the end of the league I'm likely to be busy with the new league and MD.

So I wanted to loop back to this thread at the end of the league:

image.thumb.png.73c8f6bc23a20f8169adfc0670f51183.png

Now only one of the 3 Mythic exclusive players is in the top 10 (#3), arragorn is at #23 (I may overtake them in the next few hours) and Heroyt is down at #49. To me, these actually don't seem to be significantly outside of where I'd expect them by player level. In fact the two that have dropped outside of the top 10 seem to be lower than where I'd expect them to be (given that they have ~100 player levels on me....)

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Basically, don't trust me. Someone called me out on that the gem costs for the strategies I simulated were not, in fact, equal. So I made a bit more proper calculator for gem costs, and came up with a new set of strategies to compare.

Also, of course there would be some pretty major problem in how the simulations are set up. Yeah, there's always something, and this is not an easy thing to debug. However, I did think to reverse the players' levels and teams. If the simulation set-up is working properly, the predictions should stay the same but shown on the other player. And they weren't. Girl objects weren't even shallow copied, and the order of execution meant this became a problem. Anyway, this problem at least is fixed.

Some differences to the parameters of the simulations were made, too. The boosters on the attacker are 2 cordyceps, 1 ginseng and no AME. The opponent remains unboosted. Both players have access to all 5-star common and starting girls at 50 levels below their cap, but no other commons or starting girls. I'm maybe not listing the mythics and legendaries assumed.

Both players use the team that has the 7 highest raw strength girls in each blessing. And I do go through all of the blessings and the different percent modifiers too, so you can bet it took a while to compile this table.

Analysis: It seems that the previous conclusion has almost been turned on its head. Girl level is more powerful than the previous simulations would have had you believe. But a moderate amount of good legendaries can be just as effective; compare the level 700 12 mythics 12 legendaries roster to the level 750 one. Also going overboard with legendaries might be the reason why level 650 suffers in this comparison, but also it was kind of necessary since there aren't any more mythics to choose from.

Screenshot_20220211_031637.png

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37 minutes ago, JustVisitingReborn said:

Is Dominatrix a Dominance that you're specifically looking to build-up?

Short answer: yes.

Longer answer: well, as you know I don't approach Elements quite the same way you do, but Dark is arguably the best color (or tied for best with a couple of other top-tier ones) in terms of active bonuses (regardless of Blessings). That's the main reason I'm very tempted to acquire Matcha specifically (I already have Royal Housemaid at least, although she's handicapped by her unique "no Hair color for you" attribute ^^). On top of that, Dark is the only good color in the smaller dominance scheme of 3 separated from the main 5 color one, and it counters the inherently weak White element, whose top girls have got to be the most frequently blessed (especially Bunna). That's a big plus for me too.

Still, I need to be über careful and cautious with my investments these days, as I'm working on a super tight budget. Since I already spent a lot for Norou this month, I would normally avoid any MD for a couple of months. And you never know what color might come up next for new Mythics. But in terms or revivals, assuming they keep going in order (which might be foolish of me ^^), then aside from Matcha this month and Radka in June, I'll gladly skip all MDRs for the rest of the year. So, yeah, I'm still pretty tempted. ^^

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44 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Longer answer: well, as you know I don't approach Elements quite the same way you do, but Dark is arguably the best color (or tied for best with a couple of other top-tier ones) in terms of active bonuses (regardless of Blessings). That's the main reason I'm very tempted to acquire Matcha specifically (I already have Royal Housemaid at least, although she's handicapped by her unique "no Hair color for you" attribute ^^). On top of that, Dark is the only good color in the smaller dominance scheme of 3 separated from the main 5 color one, and it counters the inherently weak White element, whose top girls have got to be the most frequently blessed (especially Bunna). That's a big plus for me too.

I find this an intersting subject.

I appreciate that some of the Dominance bonuses are "better" than others, but to me they seem somewhat irrelevant. I would never alter my team away from the best by @zoopokemon's sheet just to try and get the fractional bonus that having an extra girl of Dominance X is going to provide. So while the Dominatrix Dominance may be one of the best, would you actually alter your team to take advantage of it? Are you breaking from the top team to get an extra Dom boost? Or is this more to do with the shorter term focus on partially ignoring Blessings in favour of getting a team of 7 Mythics up to Lvl 750, meaning that you could would look to field of team of 7 Mythics that also have the best Dominance bonuses?

For me the best team by the spreadsheet is always what I put forwards, with the exceptions that a) if the selected opponent is showing a Dominance, I'll try to adjust my team to counter that Dominance and b) if the best team has a Dominance, I will try to break that to a rainbow team to leave on defence.

If you're not breaking from the optimum team and your thinking is more about counter teams (i.e. a good Dominatrix counter team makes more of a difference than a Submissive counter team), there's another factor that would need to be considered. That is how often you need any counter team.

Generally speaking my feelings so far is that it tends to be weaker players that are leaving up teams with a Dominance to begin with and that the Dominances that are being left up are very much dependent on the Blessings. So if the Blessings are going to show more players a 'best' team (as decided by the team selector filters) that has a Voyeur Dominance, you're going to see more Voyeur Dominance teams over the next week. For instance, for the last few weeks I've seen a lot of Dominances from the 5 group. I was starting to think that generally these were simply the more common Dominances, but this week I'm seeing FAR more for the 3 group. So to know which counter Dominance was 'best', you'd need to know not only which Dominance offers the best game mechanic bonus, but which Dominances occurred most frequently for players who were not paying as close attention to which teams they were fielding.

It's a very involved thought process......

 

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there is a lot to talk about difference in elements, just to elaborate a little on the difference between dominatrix and another blessed element girl, compare these two; the only difference is in the first I have bianca (700, voyeur, currently blessed, top17, 30%, 31,25 power) and in the 2nd i swapped her with matcha (700, dominatrix, no blessing, top30, 28,56 power)

image.png.65e83a1a6fbc9f74a20b9769a2432e44.pngimage.png.db16ef91f4b71e111986d8a5d8df0324.png

ofc, there are a lot of other factors to be aware of, but it shows already how uneven different elements are and why it's almost useless to upgrade voyeur girls in particular. Ironically (or intentional?) we have most shards of them but the least common girls.

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3 hours ago, blaa said:

there is a lot to talk about difference in elements, just to elaborate a little on the difference between dominatrix and another blessed element girl, compare these two; the only difference is in the first I have bianca (700, voyeur, currently blessed, top17, 30%, 31,25 power) and in the 2nd i swapped her with matcha (700, dominatrix, no blessing, top30, 28,56 power)

Sorry @blaa - I'm likely being dim, but I'm not sure I'm following your point here.

Are you trying to highlight that there's not much difference between the teams, even though one of the girls is Blessed and far higher up the table than the other?

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42 minutes ago, JustVisitingReborn said:

Sorry @blaa - I'm likely being dim, but I'm not sure I'm following your point here.

Are you trying to highlight that there's not much difference between the teams, even though one of the girls is Blessed and far higher up the table than the other?

well, we might have a different understanding of what "not much difference" means, but, yes, i wanted to highlight that there is a significant difference even if the dominatrix girl isnt blessed/has a big difference in power (it's 1,5k in main stats and 800 in beta/omega stats, so 2,3k overall which is around 10% in total power).

edit: I also checked the expected average against some players, and if this is true for every player, that means that's about at least 20-30 points over 300 fights in average.

 

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