Mythic Equipment - New Feature

[Tom208]

Il y a 5 heures, Master-17 a dit :

There's an error here: Mythic equipment cost 8 material

It's not really an error, it's just a not-updated information.

Indeed, mythic equipment had a value of 5 material when they appeared on test server. Kinkoid changed that after the feedbacks received from test server players. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Tom208

[garadron]

I don't even want to know the odds of having 4 Mythic item drops and 3 of them being a "helmet"...

[bolitho76]

Not low enough that it doesn't appear to at least one player when thousands of players exists 😉

That's really bad luck. Seems you need some of theese: 🍀

I'm happy that I can fill 3 slots with the 4 items I got so far. 😃

[madahmed]

Il y a 4 heures, garadron a dit :

I don't even want to know the odds of having 4 Mythic item drops and 3 of them being a "helmet"...

i feel you. i am like you ;4 mythic Items . 3 of them are on the same slot.

Edited December 3, 2022 by madahmed

[sban]

3 hours ago, garadron said:

I don't even want to know the odds of having 4 Mythic item drops and 3 of them being a "helmet"...

Surprisingly high:

Simulation says the probability of drawing three identical and one different slot is ~9.3%

So when many players receive 4 items, having 3 for the same slot should be quite common.

[sban]

More probability experiments:

Given 6 item drops, how likely is it they cover exactly x slots?

1: 0.0128
2: 1.9815
3: 23.1628
4: 50.0462
5: 23.2611
6: 1.5356

Given 4 item drops, how likely is it they cover exactly x slots?

1: 0.447
2: 16.2115
3: 55.6465
4: 27.695
 

Given 12 item drops, how likely is it they cover exactly x slots?

1: 0
2: 0.00276
3: 0.47984
4: 10.1106
5: 45.6004
6: 43.8064

[DvDivXXX]

Well, fuck me sideways back and forth and be done with it, RNGeelzebub. 🚬

@sban Given 6 items, how likely is it they're made of 3 unique(ly shitty) pairs each for a different slot? ^^ (thanks a bunch for all your odds, by the way)

PS: Yes, I started burning material on the slightly less shitty Slot 6 item I got before realizing this was a waste of materials. ^^

PPS: And they're all even numbers. What (and most importantly, where) are the odds? ^^

Edited December 3, 2022 by DvDivXXX
updated

[sban]

22 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Given 6 items, how likely is it they're made of 3 unique(ly shitty) pairs each for a different slot?

3.86% (without thinking about any class / team matches)

I think it would be nice to have a feature where we can "forge" 2 or 3 shitty mythic items into one nice one.

I can compute more odds wants to know specific ones.

[Julius Fox]

The Good News: My first 4 pieces of Mythic Equipment are all for different slots, and one of them is Rainbow theme! 😃

The Bad News: None of them are my class, and the one with Rainbow theme boosts Harmony... 😞

 

I've been trying to decide if it's worth it to go ahead and upgrade non-ideal Mythic Equipment in my situation, or wait for better pieces. I can easily finish Top 30 in D2 without using all of my fights, but I'm not quite ready to really give it a go in D3 yet (I want to at least get most of my L5s to level 700 first), so it's not like I desperately need to improve my stats ASAP. On the other hand, I figure I'll probably only be getting 5-7 pieces of Mythic Gear a month, so if I'm too picky I could be waiting a long time. Ultimately I decided that since I have plenty of old gear and Ymen I might as well go ahead and upgrade the pieces I have currently have. It might even spur me to try D3 a little sooner, although I'm going to assume that most players in D3 will probably have full sets of Mythic Gear by the time I get there so maybe that shouldn't influence my decision.

Also, it's always nice when laziness unexpectedly pays off. I have so much old gear that I never sold because I got tired of waiting for it to load that even after fully upgrading 4 pieces of Mythic Equipment with my oldest gear, I've still only made it to around gear level 270 in my inventory (I'm currently level 433). ☺️

[DvDivXXX]

11 hours ago, Julius Fox said:

I've been trying to decide if it's worth it to go ahead and upgrade non-ideal Mythic Equipment in my situation, or wait for better pieces.

Rule of thumbs: upgrade the first piece you get for each slot, then none at all until you start getting really good pieces (I'd even recommend waiting for several of them, in case they all decide to align with another class for instance).

That way, you get the low-hanging fruit of a significant increase in raw stats right now. Then you can take your time waiting for good bonuses to land on your lap. It's not like a +2% boost to HP or Defense is worth burning resources on its own.

11 hours ago, Julius Fox said:

The Bad News: None of them are my class, and the one with Rainbow theme boosts Harmony... 😞

Harmony should go in your good news category. It's much better than Defense. The strong bonus is Attack, the decent bonus is Harmony. HP and Defense are the bad ones. Rainbow isn't necessarily good news in and of itself, either (but it is the simplest and most reliable to make use of without adding a layer of micromanagement to it).

Edited December 4, 2022 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Ravi-Sama]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Harmony should go in your good news category. It's much better than Defense. The strong bonus is Attack, the decent bonus is Harmony. HP and Defense are the bad ones. Rainbow isn't necessarily good news in and of itself, either (but it is the simplest and most reliable to make use of without adding a layer of micromanagement to it).

Would you prefer Atk/Harmony over Atk/Def?

I have 2 M gear now.  Slots 2 and 3 (torso and legs).

One matches my class.  They weren't as good as mono gear for the pantheon's 1800th wall, but are essential against the 1900th one.  I suppose it depends on the boss.

Wall 1800: 4.32% w/ 6 mono vs. 2.73% w/ 5 mono/1 mythic.
Wall 1900: 0.06% w/ 6 mono vs. 1.2% w/ 4 mono/2 mythic.

I think I'd still try to max out any gear that fit in a slot.  The raw stats are a good enough reason.

If it's really trash later, you can recycle it for 187 material, but I don't think I'd ever do that.  They can be used for element based gear sets.

If it's a duplicate gear slot, obviously prioritize the one that matches your class, and don't upgrade the dupe.

[DvDivXXX]

4 hours ago, Ravi-Sama said:

Would you prefer Atk/Harmony over Atk/Def?

Yes, no question. Attack+Harmony > Attack+Defense.

Even in a future world where we can get super picky and manage multiple different full sets of mythic gear for different purposes, one of these being a "defensive setup" for the league, then that hypothetical secondary set would ideally aim for HP+Defense as its combo (aligned with your class and with Rainbow, ofc), not Attack+Defense.

But even in that context, I'm not convinced having 1.2 extra chlorella along with a +12% to the negligible damage reduction that is Defense would actually make the opponent's life more difficult than a +12% to the already very high Harmo value of the typical Double-Rainbow setup presented to opponents (Rainbow gear and tag) plus a 1.2 extra cordyceps (technically it's even stronger than that, since it's applied after everything else, so it's more like a slightly weaker extra AM booster, but one that also applies when you're being attacked rather than just when you're attacking as is the case with the AM booster). And by "not convinced", I mean I'm pretty certain that the opposite is true.

Yep. HP and Defense resonance bonuses are the bad ones.

EDIT: I think I'm smelling @zoopokemon's perfurme, and he could probably confirm either way (or Numbers or Tom208 etc. but they just don't smell like Zoo ^^), but the important distinction most players tend to overlook or not even know about, about Defense, is the difference between "Attack" and "Damage". If I'm not mistaken, your "Damage" is your final "Attack" value after deduction of the opponent's "Defense" value. And we have a lot of things that boost your "Damage" directly (such as the Dark Element active and passive bonuses), bypassing the opponent's "Defense" (which is also effectively more than halved in face of a critical hit).

The highest Defense value I remember ever seeing was around 50k (it might get a bit higher than that soon with full mythic gear raw stats). We regularly hit for 130k  or more as a regular hit these days (much more with full mythic gear raw stats and eventually full +12% damage buff). Defense is just nowhere near in the ballpark it would need to be at to be relevant, basically.

The MOTHER of EDITS: For fuck's sake. ^^ I only just noticed the Harmony buff is TWICE as big as the Defense buff. Holy shit! So that's +24% to Harmony with a full matching set? Yeah, no one should need a calculator let alone summoning the powers that be to spreadsheet them into seeing how that's so much stronger than +12% to Defense it's not even funny. I thought these were the same values, for some reason (prolly because I've rolled almost only HP+Def stinkers so far ^^).

Edited December 4, 2022 by DvDivXXX
updated

[DvDivXXX]

[zoopokemon]

5 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Harmony should go in your good news category. It's much better than Defense.

 

26 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Yes, no question. Attack+Harmony > Attack+Defense.

Harmony

Crit Chance = 30% * Player Harmony / ( Player Harmony + Opponent Harmony )

So in the case of equal harmony with then adding full Harmony resonance you would have a 16.6% chance to crit vs the original 15%, equating to 0.01607 * Attack more Attack.

Defense

Generally I find that the ratio between your Defense and an Opponent's Attack to be any where between 0.3 to 0.5, meaning your blocking 30% to 50% of their attack.

So taking an average of 0.4 for the ratio between your Defense and an opponent's Attack, adding full Defense resonance you get a new ratio of 0.448, equating to receiving 0.048 * Opponent's Attack less Attack from an Opponent.

That's 3 times higher then what full Harmony resonance could have given them. Below is the graph for all the possible You Def / Opp Atk ratios, showing that you'll be able to defend more with full defense bonus, in most cases, than what extra attack full harmony bonus could give an opponent.

An Example

Here I have simulated full Harmony resonance bonus and full Defense resonance bonus compared to my no theme resonance bonus in the pantheon for proof that the math is correct.

Base:

Harmony:

Defense:

Side Notes

6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Rainbow isn't necessarily good news in and of itself, either (but it is the simplest and most reliable to make use of without adding a layer of micromanagement to it).

"Rainbow" theme is 100% good news as most of the times you'll be using a Balanced team and most of the time the best team by pure Total Power (should really be called Team Power) is a Balanced team.

41 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

[Master-17]

On 11/30/2022 at 7:53 PM, Master-17 said:

I can’t say about the landings, because I passed the previous one, and haven’t got to the next one yet, but on the stairs, mono-equipment greatly reduces the chances of winning.

OK, I spent a few refills of candles and reached the next landing.

With a set of 3 different boosters:
The combination of 4 mythic and 2 legendary rainbow items is almost useless

If you replace them with mono equipment, it becomes much better

Complete replacement with a full-mono set allows you to achieve similar results

Perhaps if you use three cordyceps, the results will be different. But at the moment, saving a set of a full-mono set has a place to exist.
P.S. Teams are selected with the highest chances of winning of those that I have made up for fights in the leagues. So perhaps you can pick up teams in specific situations, their chances would be even higher.

[DvDivXXX]

NGL, your post was SOOOO cool in and of itself, I really enjoyed it and I honestly wish this was a legit "Drops the Mic" moment.

Actually... The old remnants of my misguided ego are somehow fairly reinvigorated right now, and they're telling me "shh don't tell them all your secrets! let them believe they're doing it right, keep your knowledge to yourself and slap them in the face with it" as they used to do. ^^

Of course, that's terrible advice to give, even to one's self (possibly worse as self-advice), since I've learned and changed and evolved so much more than I ever could have on my own, in big part thanks to sharing my tips and tricks and learning those of others and having a lot of back and forth over the years.

So I won't hold my piece.

See, Doc, it's great that the maths checked out. It's a great starting point for the theory. However, it's then crucial to have good test pilots check out how that holds up in practice (ideally folks with great instincts but also a decent understanding of where the Docs are coming from theory wise). This means I'm a bit concerned Ken shared your laugh at my Harmony > Defense tip, because this means one of us made a mistake in his assessment and it could of course be me rather than him (though I don't think so now, but he proved me wrong before, thankfully! I used to think Red was better than Orange, after all ^^).

So, proceeding with caution, but... And until some kind of consensus arises from Ken's or others' input. I'll say why I'm still dead serious that Defense is more or less shit in most circumstances, and Harmony is more or less a zero sum game, except when it totally isn't. I'll say upfront that testing this on Pantheon doesn't impact what I'm about to elaborate upon whatsoever, because I'm having PvP in mind almost exclusively (for this entire discussion in this thread actually, but also just by default), including a little human factor that cannot be put on a graph beforehand, and won't stay where the graph says it should anyway. Call it the META GAME, call it the HUMAN FACTOR, same difference. ^^

2 hours ago, zoopokemon said:

the case of equal harmony

Has been a major part of the status quo for the entire era that went from the previous major meta-shaker to the latest one we're discussing here. To be clear, Harmony was buffed to a point that it killed Mono gear as a legitimate PvP tool, for the most part. We've been in the Rainbow Meta first and foremost for this reason for the past year or so. Because with the game's previous parameters, if an opponent lowered their Harmony significantly compared to the ~80k status quo everyone and their cousin stuck to more or less religiously, by say, equipping a once strong and scary Mono item to beef up their Attack (and HP)... They made themselves a much easier target than by sticking to full Rainbow gear at all times like most of the field. (Near the end of the era, for the larger playing field; it took a long time as always for the less dedicated and informed competitors to get the memo, and in the meta before that, Harmony was negligible, pure Attack was king, and HP was a lot stronger as well).

So yes, of course, if everyone takes the path of the Harmony bonus and we eventually reach a similar status quo, only with higher values, then it'll be a wash (as it typically is today, well in the past few months, before the MG patch). That's more or less what I expect to happen long term in this new Meta anyway, unless they move another needle soon-ish (like say, the near-mythical and ever-elusive Hero's Journey skill tree patch). This would never ever work the way you presented it for maths' sake, though. In practice, we'll get there one of two ways (or a combination of the two).

1/ Most players assume the Defense bonus is preferable and seek it over the Harmony bonus. Further down the line when most high-end competitors are more or less equipped the way they aimed to be (there's just so much RNG and scarcity involved, it won't be a clean or evenly distributed transition phase no matter what, even at the top—unless you count "P2P" as "top" which I do not)... My opponents show a Harmo of say 80-90k or something like that, slightly increased by the beefed-up raw stats from MG but otherwise still fairly comparable to what we've had in the previous meta. They also, as scary as that's supposed to be (lul), show +12% to their Defense value. And they'll be FOOD for me and the few early adopters of my Harmo boost strat to chew down upon then spit out the bone. Because I'll have say 124k Harmo to their 100k which is nowhere near "the case of equal harmony", and will improve my crits on them much more significantly than their showing 62k instead of 50k in Defense will soften the blow of my 150k+ regular hits let alone my ~300k crits for them.

Because Defense is super low compared to Attack, and +12% of not much is still not much. Whereas Harmony has super high numbers already (and it's not only not going to change but it's going to get even higher throughout the transition phase, thanks to MG items being only Rainbow, and giving more Harmo than our now-obsolete Legendary Rainbow stuff). And +24% of a big number is a hell of a lot.

2/ Most players see right away that Defense barely even dulls the blade as it is, and that marginally improving a bad mechanic won't make it good. AND they either see that Harmony has kept a lot more in check than it gets credit for over the entire past year of meta, and that it has consistently been a high number, will only get higher with MG anyway, and that an extra quarter worth of a stat that has big values will make a big impact. OR... they just give Harmo a chance because Defense sucks and Harmo is the only other option on the table. Either way, this path leads much more directly and naturally to the status quo I expect: everyone and their cousin keeps their Harmo value high as a kite as usual, including by using the +1/4th bonus everybody else and their other cousin will also adopt and obliterate them with if they don't follow the meta.

This isn't hyperbole: ask any regular top 4 contender in D3 if given the choice they'd rather catch an opponent with 20k Harmo and a comparatively high Attack (and HP lulz) value or the same opponent in full Rainbow gear with the typical ~80k Harmo (despite less Attack and HP lowl) and they should pick the former without hesitation (assuming the opponent in question is unboosted and the teams and levels are otherwise in the same ballpark, which is typically the case at that level). This should be very similar, only at a higher scale.

TL;DR? The case of equal Harmony shouldn't exist if Harmony wasn't a crucial stat. It is the consensus precisely because when one of the two has a significant advantage in Harmony, they tend to defeat the other much more handily and reliably than when Harmony values are in the same ballpark.

Defense, now:

2 hours ago, zoopokemon said:

the ratio between your Defense and an Opponent's Attack to be any where between 0.3 to 0.5, meaning your blocking 30% to 50% of their attack.

In practice that's not what matters. What matters is how big of a difference it makes for a given player to have "no Defense", "some Defense" or "the highest possible Defense money can buy" when they're attacked. And the fact that the difference is "fair to middling" or what I like to call "negligible to... eh, it kind of held for a bit, there". That's why White is one of the weakest Elemental bonuses, and Yellow is the absolute worst. Defense is shit. Boosting your own has very little impact on your ability to take punishment, and reducing your opponent's has virtually no effect on how hard you're hitting them.

We notably never had a dedicated booster for Defense. But if we had one, I think it would be somewhere between Jujube and Chlorella in the "Use for points during sell item contests" category of boosters. Now, interestingly, Ginseng does boost Defense a bit. But it also boosts HP and Attack and Harmony, and that's why it's still a decent all-purpose booster.

You never answered my question (or confirmed if my stats are correct rather) about Damage = Attack-Defense and, more importantly, a lot of things buff DAMAGE directly rather than raw Attack. Which means these buffs ignore the opponent's Defense entirely, as it's subtracted before they're applied. Right?

This and, again, critical hits double the Attack, while the opponent's Defense is the still the same. So if a regular hit is say 120k Attack versus 40k Defense, that's 80k DAMAGE. But a crit hit will be 240k Attack versus 40k Defense, which is 200k Damage instead. Hence how vital critical hits are to maximize for me and to minimize for my opponent... Which Harmony contributes to.

Now obviously, I would have gladly taken a flat Crit Chance (Orange) buff or another source of Lifesteal (Blue) over a +24% to Harmony. But the options are between +24% Harmony and +12% Defense. And the CLEAR winner out of these two, in actual PvP practical situations, once the dust settles down on the meta game, is the Harmo buff.

2 hours ago, zoopokemon said:

"Rainbow" theme is 100% good news as most of the times you'll be using a Balanced team and most of the time the best team by pure Total Power (should really be called Team Power) is a Balanced team.

I know it's just a side note and many players even among my fellow high-D3 contenders don't bother switching all the time, but no, a good PvP player never attacks in Rainbow tag if they can help it. It varies from weak to weak (because of Blessings) and from battle to battle (not only for different opponents but often for the same one over time) but MOST of the time, there are shenanigans aplenty to edge out more points or ensure stronger odds of winning playing around whichever color tag your opponent gives you (when they don't or maybe can't stick to the Rainbow Façade consensus for passive defense). But far beyond that, there are individual bonuses that are big enough and scale well enough that they do not care whether they're the top team on your spreadsheet, they will just flat out perform better than the exact top team. Blue girls and their Lifesteal are on top of that list, but depending on the situation, I've had consistently much better odds than the simple copy-paste "top team" by slotting in a couple of Orange, Dark or (less frequently but still) Green girls in my team. Even when the top team is Rainbow on paper, that's only as far as your spreadsheet, casual players and inattentive opponents are concerned. Rainbow is what you show them, not what you actually bludgeon them with when they're not looking. ^^

So yeah, as a good player it is my serious opinion that the ideal full MG set I'd like to have (first) would be a full Blue, Orange or maybe Dark set with matching my KH/HC/CH class and giving +12% to my global Attack as well as +24% to my Harmony.

I'll gladly keep a full Rainbow set matching my class and giving +12% HP and +12% Defense instead, but only to fuck with my opponents while I'm AFK and also showing my fake slash base Rainbow (tag) team of the week. But it would perform terribly compared to something close enough to my ideal set described above when I forget to switch before attacking.

Which is the extra layer of micromanagement I was referring to earlier on when talking to Julius and Ravi. Eventually, unless something quick and simple to switch all 6 items at once in a couple of clicks gets implemented, most players will prefer to resign to a Rainbow tag set and team, just because it's never outright bad. And even though it's also almost never the best you can do.

In any case...

[Liliat]

Just a random question, 'cause it's too late for me to read and analyze pages-long posts right now:

Why do players assume that "Defense" and "Ego" matter in defensive fights, and "Attack" matters in offensive fights? Fights are purely symmetrical, except for the fact that the attacker gets the first attack. Defense is just as important in offensive fights, as attack is defensively.

[DvDivXXX]

18 minutes ago, Liliat said:

Defense is just as important in offensive fights, as attack is defensively.

You're not wrong, but I don't think anyone here (myself included) is challenging that. The fact is that you control who, when and how you attack, whereas the only thing you can do about situations where you're the defender (without dwelling into superstitious territory) is to remember switching back to the least vulnerable team you can and hope for the best.

So, we tend to discuss the active strategies of attacking more than the depressingly passive "woopsie, forgot to renew my boosters slash put back my actual team slash remove my MG before the bug "expires" them along with my boosters, but fingers crossed no one saw that" of... no real strategic options for defending.

[zoopokemon]

47 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Because I'll have say 124k Harmo to their 100k which is nowhere near "the case of equal harmony", and will improve my crits on them much more significantly than their showing 62k instead of 50k in Defense will soften the blow of my 150k+ regular hits let alone my ~300k crits for them.

That's only 2.4k more attack with +24% Harmony compared to the 6k more defense with +12% Defense, please do some math before you write a novel.

Edit: Had to correct 12k more def to 6k, since I used DvDivXXX's incorrect 62k, instead of the correct 56k.

Edited December 5, 2022 by zoopokemon
Correcting DvDivXXX's Math

[DvDivXXX]

47 minutes ago, zoopokemon said:

please do some math before you write a novel.

To each their own, and I've asked you to check slash confirm or rectify the maths part because I know that's not my forte, but it's yours. Thanks for the nitpick on that partial, but that doesn't address (let alone disprove) most of my theory.

I'm also confused by how you seem to "average out" what a large Harmony advantage gives by translating it into a flat attack bonus? This sounds to me like the sort of thing that works in a lab (or simulation rather) but not in practice.

In practice, you either crit and it has a massive positive impact or you don't, your opponent either crits or they don't, and so on, each round. Taking the lion's share of the shared pool of Crit Chance that is Harmony introduces a lot more variance in battle outcomes compared to a status quo in that area, than it gives an average buff. And the deviation tends to be in the favor of the player who buffed their Harmony.

Meanwhile, the Defense boost IS a flat and fairly small bonus. That's a big part of my novel's thesis, actually. ^^

Although, I'll say this: even if I take your fixed numbers without the positive influence on the RNG that the Harmo route gives, this still sounds like a no-brainer to me:

47 minutes ago, zoopokemon said:

That's only 2.4k more attack with +24% Harmony compared to the 6k more defense with +12% Defense

+2.4k Attack is better than +6k Defense, isn't it? Like, just flat out better even. My defense is small and not what makes the difference ever (defensively or offensively @Liliat ^^). I have a lot of HP, Lifesteal, Attack and the crucial Crit Chance all working together to mitigate the opponent's damage a lot better than my entire Defense does. +2.4k to my Attack also means that much more for my Lifesteal, etc. +6k to my Defense only means I'll have 6k less HP to heal back on the next round.

And on top of that you're telling me that I was basically too generous to Defense boost in my example [Edit: I see it now. I added +12 to 50 instead of +6, which is toddler-level maths, admittedly ^^ Hey! I never pretended otherwise]. I understand how you picked up on the fact that it's incorrect maths first and foremost, but...

From a gameplay perspective, the fact that the defense buff is even worse than I assumed kind of confirms my idea that the harmo buff is better, right? Because that's what we were talking about (I hope ^^).

Edited December 5, 2022 by DvDivXXX
updated

[zoopokemon]

39 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

+2.4k to my Attack also means that much more for my Lifesteal, etc. +6k to my Defense only means I'll have 6k less HP to heal back on the next round.

You really think it's better to heal 6k of damage with a fraction of 2.4k instead of not taking 6k of damage?

[DvDivXXX]

If you squint your eyes hard enough to somehow ignore the other things I've mentioned (and the things I hinted at with my "etc." but, I now realize, also the things I thought of but forgot to specify in my post ^^) I guess it's possible to twist what I said into that, but... No, that's not what I think at all, or what I meant to say, at least.

Hitting for 2.4k more would of course first and foremost be better for the "killing the opponent" part of the fight. ^^ The fact that it would also scale my lifesteal is a secondary bonus. Taking 6k less damage per hit would only matter for the "killing my opponent" part of the plan if I can survive one more round thanks to that, otherwise it does nothing to help me win. So yes, 6 is a bigger number than 2.4. But no, these two amounts are not measured in the same unit. And Attack matters much much more than Defense, so yes a small buff to Attack is a lot better than a slightly bigger buff to Defense.

I'm not expressing this in numbers because even if I do the maths right, you'll find something to WTF at, but also because it could suggest that the difference between how much an Attack buff matters and how much a Defense buff matters is something worth measuring, which I don't think it is. Attack is still the most important of all the stats. Defense is one of the least important of all the stats. Because of the ballparks and the many mechanical interactions specifically in this game, to be extra clear. I'm not reciting poetry or a mantra, here. If we had at least twice as much Defense it could be very different.

And this circles back to the very beginning, anyway: the one real game changer out of the two pairs of possible MG resonance bonuses is the +2% Attack buff. The rest does a little bit extra at best, and virtually nothing at worst. But yeah, out of the two secondary options I do think the +4% to Harmony is better than the +2% to Defense.

If there's no more argument for or against that than we had so far, ( @Kenrae you're not off the hook, baby ^^ I hope you'll give your own take on this)... Zoo's eyebrow and eye both need a good rest.  

[zoopokemon]

Any increase in effective damage from the harmony bonus can and will be negated by the increase of defense from the defense bonus.

Using harmony bonus equips will put you at a disadvantage to those using the defense bonus.

[DvDivXXX]

Agree to DISAGREE!

 

[zoopokemon]

Going back to this point

3 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

And +24% of a big number is a hell of a lot.

What matters is the cirt chance and that +24% is nothing. If you, before the +24% harm, take your harm as a ratio of your harm + opponent's harm you can vary it between 0 and 1 to see all possible outcomes that +24% harm will have. +1.607% was the what effect +24% had if both opponents are equal, best case is at a ratio of 0.4731 for +1.6118%.

So yeah, that's why I stress that the increase effective damage will never outclass the increase in defense.