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Mythic Equipment - New Feature


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I feel like I'm partly responsible for Div and Zoo's back and forth, and I'm glad, cuz I was legit curious about defense vs harmony.  I read some of it whilst I was waiting for my pizza 🍕 in a pizzeria.

I haven't done the math (did some in the past), but here's both formulas from Slynia's Performance Handbook.

  • Defense = 0.25 * (2nd base stat + 3rd base stat) + (0.12 * Team power) * (1+Submissive  bonus)
  • Crit Chance % = 0.3 * Your Harmony / (Your Harmony + Opponent's Harmony)

My gut feeling was to favor defense over harmony, and I still feel that way.  My anecdotal reasoning was, that I remember when submissive girls were boosted AF one week, and I could barely put a scratch on opponents, even when I had the advantage over them.

Defense is a constant, and reliable stat, just like Ego, and why some players value exhibitionist 🟢 girls over physical 🟠/eccentric 🔴 girls.  It's not just a chance that it'd work, and reduce your opponent's damage, it always does.

Harmony is fickle, and not to be trusted.  Even if I had max harmony, I guarantee, I'd still be at a disadvantage b/c an opponent had a higher TP defense team, and I'd be lacking the 12% defense bonus I could've had instead.  The reason harmony gets a +4% boost per M gear, is that it's the one that actually sucks, and needs the +4%, unlike defense's +2%.

The pantheon might be a different story than leagues, (b/c there's a huge harmony disadvantage), but it's no longer as difficult, since we know 4 players that broke the 2000 wall, and I know how to do it now.  Even in the pantheon, I think I'd prefer higher defense, taking less dmg per hit, for the possibility of surviving more rounds, to deal even more dmg, than the chance that I'd crit more, and still lose early, b/c my defense was a wet noodle.  Surviving more rounds w/ a slightly lower chance to crit (but still doing it ~3 times, once in a blue moon), is better than a slightly higher chance to crit, but always dying too soon.

In leagues, even if players had higher harmony bonuses, it'd just mean a chance at more crits, but their defense would be 💩, and easy to consistently score higher vs. them.  Especially, since we can choose teams for counter bonuses, make stronger teams for higher stats, use physical girls, and always get the first turn, like Liliat mentioned.

It's not like we have a choice yet.  This is theoretical, unless you're a whale or wallet warrior.  The drops are random, and I'm sure I'll eventually make many sets of gear at some point, so I can experiment w/ them.  I feel like Zoo's pantheon sim demonstration was convincing.

I made a thread ~5 months ago in July, in the QA section, called "Maximum Critical Hit Chance!!! 💪🏽 Worth it?"  The consensus was that higher stats, from stronger girls, contributed to higher scores in leagues more than raw critical hit chance did.  Higher girl stats affect defense and not harmony.  Hence, defense > harmony.

I thought Div might make the argument that w/ the harmony bonus, you could make mono gear more relevant again in leagues, by mixing it w/ mythic gear, for both higher atk and higher crit chance, but that's probably a fantasy, since everyone will have 6 mythic gear in the future.  Also, mono gear lowers harmony, so it wouldn't work, lol.  Having lower defense due to mythic/mono would suck in leagues, but it's great for the pantheon.

Might as well meditate, and try to be patient, until I actually get 6 slots of mythic gear, then work towards 6 matching my class, then 6 w/ atk.  Matching themes/elements for either all defense or all harmony comes last.

ezgif-5-4902d683a1.gif.de83fe022c0d181b30dc4e5c47b13238.gif

Edited by Ravi-Sama
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8 hours ago, zoopokemon said:

Going back to this point

What matters is the cirt chance and that +24% is nothing. If you, before the +24% harm, take your harm as a ratio of your harm + opponent's harm you can vary it between 0 and 1 to see all possible outcomes that +24% harm will have. +1.607% was the what effect +24% had if both opponents are equal, best case is at a ratio of 0.4731 for +1.6118%.

change2cirt.thumb.PNG.13535bbfcaa9fd63ee3081241722664a.PNG

So yeah, that's why I stress that the increase effective damage will never outclass the increase in defense.

  1. That's actually useful and presented in a more digestible (and less condescending manner). Thanks for that (and for the previous bits of maths too, even though I'm a bit disappointed you still haven't answered some of my maths questions from my previous posts, ironically).
     
  2. Are you five years old, though? I mean, reacting "WTF" to every last thing I post that doesn't agree with your very narrow perspective on the topic at hand got old fairly quick. Can't you read social cues? I'd like you to stop, thanks.
     
  3. You are so focused on the little part of this discussion that is pure maths (understandly so, since it's your domain of competence in the matter, after all) that you're getting oblivious to everything else way past the point of no return. To put it as gently as possible, educating you on the jumbo jet of information and nuances flying over your head throughout this discussion would be at least as exhausting and thankless of a task for me as it would be for you to give me a crash course on all of the tedious calculations and graph making stuff, aka the parts of maths that bore me to death and that I'm not good at as a result. You should show a tidbit of humility and open-mindedness, bro. You're better at this spreadsheet stuff than I am, but that doesn't automatically make you smarter than me, you know? Statistically, the opposite is almost certainly true, but I'm not interested in trying to wow you with my private life story or inviting you for a grand tour of my brains, here.

    I'll settle for you stopping to address me like a fucking child when I express ideas and concepts you can't compute and thus incorrectly assume are stupid things coming from my mouth. It's very clear from our exchanges that you have little to no experience and deeper understanding of what it means to play a game, beyond the parts you can put on a spreadsheet. The meta game is much more influenced by psychological and sociological variables than by whatever the cold hard maths say in your lab. And I'm very well-versed in those domains, contrary to you it seems.
     
  4. Case in point: repeating the obvious mathematical statement you had already made multiple times and I was not challenging in and of itself, instead of even noticing the part of your post that I disagree with, is fairly dumb. Clueless, even.
    8 hours ago, zoopokemon said:

    So yeah, that's why I stress that the increase effective damage will never outclass the increase in defense.

    Actually off topic. And not at all justifying the thing I actually responded to in disagreement from your previous post:  

    8 hours ago, zoopokemon said:

    Using harmony bonus equips will put you at a disadvantage to those using the defense bonus.

    You know what this is akin to? The guy from Michelin telling the pilot that he will lose the race if he doesn't use the mathematically superior setup he established on his screen, ignoring the pilot's knowledge, understanding and experience from all of the other factors that come into play in a real life race that can't show up in your lab and that will not care what your lab experiments "proved" was "the truth". That was the bullshit part I disagreed with. Fighting off the kneejerk reaction to react "WTF" to that dumb post mostly because you ruined the emote at this point. ^^

    I had no problem understanding or even accepting the mathematical conclusion you had already shared before, in that post:  

    8 hours ago, zoopokemon said:

    Any increase in effective damage from the harmony bonus can and will be negated by the increase of defense from the defense bonus.

    It's the naivete and arrogance with which you assumed you had solved the meta game to come with your hasty and narrow-minded conclusion off of it that I disagreed with. No need to repeat the maths at me. It is not the point of disagreement, here, and I don't think you even realize how many other variables come into play between your perfect graph and the imperfect but infinitely more complex reality of how things will shake up in the actual meta game from there.

  5. Agree to disagree. It's a simple enough social interaction, especially online. Give it a try. You'll see, it can actually relieve stress and helps promote healthy exchanges in a community like ours.

Div out (for now). Cheers.

 

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On 12/3/2022 at 9:48 AM, garadron said:

I don't even want to know the odds of having 4 Mythic item drops and 3 of them being a "helmet"...

Roll a die. Each roll have 17% of duplicating another previous result. That's mean nothing anyway, and the die do whatever, it does't remember previous rolls. In the *long terms* all possible results have the same distribution. Like rolling 1000 times '1' or rolling a serie of 123456 123456 multiple times.

Your chance of collecting 3 equal slots out of 4 is *equal* to collect 4 of different slots.

I want to underline this once again: we can talk of 'expected time', an human interpretation of combinations ("luck"), but a true RNG give a f* to this. If the goal was to collect 3 identical items, you were 'lucky' and many others 'unlucky', the chances were the same.

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2 hours ago, lepidocter said:

human interpretation of combinations ("luck")

Yop. That's actually a domain I excel in which touches upon maths (and the data is key and must be tight) but has so much more to do with human nature (and its inherent struggles to understand, let alone truly perceive and have reasonable expectations in the face of probabilities, especially really large and really small numbers). It's equal parts fascinating (the analysis and translation of the often abstract odds into layman language, and then the strategy this allows in practical situations) and frustrating (dealing with those whose minds are simply closed off to any rational approach of such things, especially the vocal and always pissed off minority who looks at these insanely large patterns through a microscope instead of a telescope and then keeps on feeling bad for themselves with every normal bit of variance not going their way—often even betrayed, cheated upon by the game, or whatever the source of the odds may be).

At the other extreme, someone only gifted for "hard" science would show them the odds once in scientific notation and then read them out loud over and over in hopes it somehow clicks with them dumb humans all on its own eventually. That's one example where the type of intelligence one needs to understand and communicate with humans can truly shine over the type that procures cold Mad Scientist types contentment, fascination and often hubris while they lose themselves in the abstract numbers, left to their own devices in the vacuum of space (or the constantly moving, expanding, and twisting quantum fields of spacetime, yeah, but that's less poetic ^^)...

Cue "Defiance". :ph34r:💨

-----------
Edit: Oh, but I haven't actually answered the question, have I? ^^ Okay. The odds of getting the good stuff are inversely proportional to how bad you need slash want it. ^^ Expect the worst, and you can only get good surprises.

Nighty night for realz this time!  💤💤💤

Edited by DvDivXXX
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3 hours ago, lepidocter said:

Like rolling 1000 times '1' or rolling a serie of 123456 123456 multiple times.

This is true.

3 hours ago, lepidocter said:

Your chance of collecting 3 equal slots out of 4 is *equal* to collect 4 of different slots.

This is not true. True would be for example "The probability of getting four items for slot 1 is equal to the probability of first drawing an item for slot 1, then slot 2, then slot 3 and then slot 4". Both have probability (1/6)^4 = (approx) 0.077%.

Simulation says getting at least 2 different slots from 4 draws as 99.5%, getting at least 3 different has 83% and getting four different has 27% probability.

The reason is that the result "First slot 1, then slot 2, then 3 and at last 4" is exactly one possible result of all possible results but "getting at least 3 different slots from 4 draws" can be achieved by a large number of different results, which all individually have a small probability, but they add up.

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On 11/22/2022 at 5:44 PM, Ravi-Sama said:

113491570_mythicgearcharmatksetodds.png.bf8c16ed9f7dfa44a59c8f0dd1b7a014.png

...after seeing the 648 possibilities, I know it'll take a long time.  My more realistic expectation is to get 6 gear that all boost atk, but have random elements.  I did some math, and figured it'd take ~200 random mythic gear drops, to have a 90% probability of completing that basic charm/atk mythic gear set w/ mismatched elements. 

@sban  I made this chart ~2 weeks ago.  Does it seem correct?  It's an estimate of the odds to fill all 6 slots w/ any 6 gear, then all charm, and all atk.

My logic was that it's a 100% chance that any gear will fill a slot at first.

Then, it's a 5/6 chance for the 2nd slot, b/c 1/6 could be a duplicate.  The odds keep decreasing, the more slots get filled up.

Moving on to matching class, I figured the odds are always 1/3, since there's 3 classes, but it should get multiplied by the slot odds, b/c you could get the right class, but a duplicate slot.

Then, the odds of trying to get atk instead of ego, would always be 1/2, multiplied by the slot and class odds.  Which led to the final 2.78% chance for completing a charm/atk set.

I used each % in a probability calculator, for a 90% probability that it would occur at least once, then added up all of the results, for a ~200 mythic gear estimate, to complete the charm/atk set.  I know it could be less or more than that, based on luck and randomness.  Maybe, it should actually be 82 gear drops to complete it, b/c by the time you get the last gear, you'd have gotten the other 5 already?  Not sure.

I've seen a couple of whales w/ that set already, including all defense too (but not matching elements).  I wonder how many gear drops they bought.

Edited by Ravi-Sama
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I don't have much time, but I'll write something and we can go on later @DvDivXXX & @zoopokemon

  • First, the bit we'll all agree: attack is much more important than those two. So we'll first go for 6 items of our class without caring about other considerations. This is only to compare two items of our class and same element whose only difference is harmony vs defense.
  • Zoo, you're forgetting something in all you maths: harmony not only increases your crit%, it decreases your opponent crit% by the same amount. So you should double its importance.
  • DvDiv, you're forgetting that a % increase in harmony only matters for this increase/decrease in crit, not in itself. I know you're not going to render a graph, but I'm sure you can transform the changes in harmony to a change in crit.

Shit, I must go now, I'll have to continue later.

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(I'd usually edit my previous post, but in this particular case I think it's better to have a new one and people seeing there's a new post)

Some hours later...

Ok, I can go on now.

Nowadays, all competitive players have noticed that the best element is Blue (in PvP in the league, which is what we're talking about). Even better than Dark. But if you think about it, how can that be? Blue is not the element that gives you better odds at winning a battle nor is the best one against other ultracompetitive players - Dark and even Orange are better there. The reason is fairly simple: Blue is the element that gives you more points against those players you already have a big advantage against, and that's the bulk of the league opponents! Leagues aren't won in the 3 or 4 battles you do against other top 4 contenders, they are won by maximizing your points against the rest of the players. Blue starts to shine when your expected average is 22-23+, you check what happens by switching some of your girls for Blue girls then, even with less power, and you see your expected average rise. The higher the difference the better it becomes.

Nowadays, with mythic equipment, the gap between hardcore competitive players and the rest has increased, and Blue is shining even more. It will be like that for some time, until more and more players have at least 6 mythic pieces for every slot.

So, what has that to do with this discussion? Think about this in these terms: White is a poor man's Blue and Purple is a poor man's Orange.

Against other top players that increase in Harmony is actually better than the increase in Defense. But against 4/5 of the league? Defense will be better, I'm quite sure of that. The higher the advantage, the smaller the difference between your defense and the other player attack.

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23 hours ago, sban said:

The reason is that the result "First slot 1, then slot 2, then 3 and at last 4" is exactly one possible result of all possible results but "getting at least 3 different slots from 4 draws" can be achieved by a large number of different results

Correct, I simplified too much. It's already a miracle I'm writing correct numbers, so thank you for such indepths.

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4 hours ago, Kenrae said:

Blue is the element that gives you more points against those players you already have a big advantage against, and that's the bulk of the league opponents!

That's absolutely right, but Blue is also often the best skill to buff at the other end of the spectrum: if you end up having to play a fight in which you're so outmatched in stats you actually have a significant chance not to win it, full cords and squeezing in as many +3% Lifesteal girls in your team a possible without losing too much raw power (up to minus ~10-12% give or take) can radically change that situation for you (sometimes even throwing one or two Mono items on top of that used to be worth it, in the previous meta at least). It's just that us D3 Top 4 contenders haven't been in such situations very often in ages.

The other way to go to salvage a seemingly unwinnable battle is fairly close to the opposite route: slot in 2 or even 3 gins, squeeze as many +2% Crit Chance girls in your team instead of Blues, and keep your gear full top-tier Rainbow (again, in the former meta, the one we're currently transitioning into and slowly shaping up started with all future competitive Rainbow gear getting equally power-creeped in raw stats over what we had before and devoid of the RNG rolls for that part of them, at least). And, especially if your tough opponent happens to be a good (former meta) PvP player, they'll have more cords and thus less Harmo than you anyway, which all together can also be a solid option to polymorph a 72% orange prediction into a good clean boy, aka a 95+% green one.

4 hours ago, Kenrae said:

White is a poor man's Blue and Purple is a poor man's Orange.

That's a nice effort in comparison and it makes sense on paper. It still gives too much credit to White and not enough to Purple imho. This strongly reminds me of past theories advanced by Liliat in particular in the context of Boss Bang, he often and repeatedly advised people to use Whites when were lacking in Blues (or maybe just lacking in Blues and Darkies, otherwise this would have made my spidey sense tingle because Dark is the only element even worth considering when you don't have enough to make a full-Blue line-up).

Of course, that isn't by any means a comparable environment  to PvP, since it works just as differently from it as high-level Pantheon (which was a terrible choice from Zoo to run sims upon for the resonance bonuses we were discussing, by the way, as the boss' Harmo scores are so high they might as well read "the Crit Chance Buff is all mine" so obviously buffing one's own Harmo against them is useless, contrary to versus a PvP opponent where the Harmo advantage can go either way and have a big impact).

White is more of a poor man's Green, really. That's a super important distinction. Blue is the ONLY thing that heals you, aka the ONLY HP-related buff that stays relevant throughout the battle. Green makes you start with a fixed amount of additional HP, and that's it. White makes your opponent start with a fixed amount of regular-hit-only damage reduction, and that's it. Blue does better than both combined except exactly on Round 1, which it skips, but from Round 2 to infinity and beyond, Blue is the HP buff that keeps on giving.

Purple is a poor man's Orange, for the most part. It's also a really poor man's White (aka a hobo's Green, as seen above ^^) in addition to that, as you reminded our pokemon friend earlier on, since it contributes to a damage reduction debuff chance on your opponent. Which, looked at even closer, even though it is only a chance to proc rather than a permanent debuff as White is, contrary to White's debuff, when it procs it applies to the opponent's biggest damage  spikes rather than just to their base hits' values, which is much better.

Anyways. Defense is shit in PvP. Harmony is not, at all. The only reason we tend to overlook Purple's effect so much is because the entire meta wrapped itself around countering Harmony imbalances as much as possible when the previous set of major changes to the equilibrium were made. The reason no one (should) ever consider White in PvP (as a buff in and of itself, I should specify, obviously if we delve into counter bonuses and other situational considerations, White can be clutch occasionally) is because it has yet to see a single meta in which it made a big enough difference to be a consideration. Harmony has been a major consideration since the mono gear and chlore booster were killed by the introduction of all the active buffs and debuffs that made raw stats less crucial than they used to (the end of the Mono Meta).

The new mechanical status quo from which we're in the early process of building a new meta carries most things over from the previous one. It comes with an extra polish on the coffin of mono gear (since these only come in Legendary so they're even more outdated now for PvP), and a fairly generous buff to typical values for base Attack, HP, Defense and Harmony. Two things follow from that:

A/ The higher the numerical value of each stat, the bigger the face-value buff because it's a %age buff and +10% to a big number weighs more than +10% to a smaller one.

B/ It should go without saying, and is related to A, but this being applied uniformly across all 4 stats also means that the order of importance hasn't been changed. Attack then Harmony then HP then Defense is still the order of what to care about if you want to win fights and then if you want to score as many points as possible.

To be very clear, I'm still only referring to the most immediate and reliable change in high-end PvP, here: the increase in raw stats from Lvl 500 Legendary Gear to Mythic Gear (although ofc for newer challengers and especially for baby whales in their midst, that buff is much bigger, with its complete divorce from the traditional restrictions based on Player XP or Level). That's the basis in which the resonance bonuses will, much more slowly and clumsily start kicking in.

So. The first resonance bonus has an obvious winner for all of us around here: Attack > HP. That's great, but it's also worth taking a minute or two to understand why is that. Could it be because Attack is the numero uno out of the 4 base stats mentioned above, while HP is second to last on that checklist? Huh. "I wonder." Yeah, to simplify the process a bit, that's basically why, or it might as well be. Attack is king so a big extra buff to it is also king. HP is a so-so stat in that it's in a place where you only need enough of it so as to avoid making you one-shot-able, and then it's diminishing returns downhill from there. That's why chlores are ornamental now, while cords are still the only top-tier of the regular boosters.

Now. The second resonance bonus makes a lot of people argue vehemently (and make a lot childish gestures) over which is the best (or "least worse") option out of the two. Interesting. The choice here is between a large buff to Harmony, the second most impactful of the 4 base stats in high-end League battles, or a half smaller buff to Defense, the stat that is dead last on that same list (which is my own, but I'd be surprised if someone who ever won D3 more than once by accident truly disagreed with that ranking, including Ken). So, shouldn't the option that gives a big buff to a stat that makes a real difference be the clear winner against a small buff to the stat that never ever makes a noticeable difference either either way?

Yes. Yes it should. But of course the meta is a living thing, it's an ecosystem. So at the end of the day, the best bonus for us sharks (speaking to Ken here) will be the one that helps us digest the big fish that make up the bulk of our diet the most. Big fish will have whatever bonuses they think can help them digest small fish best. My money is on whatever for the first six to twelve months, then either an initial trend towards the Defense bonus, because legends of the days of yore when Harmo was the laughing stock of all stats are still going strong among casuals to this day and "Defense" sounds like an important thing, as it is in many other games (even though, to be clear, those legends stopped being true during my own rise to power, and Harmo was already back to a key stat to keep in check when I entered the age of the D3 win; the confusion between Harmo as a stat and jujube as the shittiest booster in the game also never helped). As mentioned before, if this is the first noticeable trend among regular fish, there will be a fairly large window during which it will be all the more powerful to go for the Harmo buff for those of us at the top of the foodchain. It's not unlikely that this won't last forever though, as my guess is that fish will eventually switch to Harmo too, but we shall see.

Oh, but we're having a meta game and league strategy discussion, now. ^^ Which is largely where I was coming from all along (as I said loud and clear early on).

I guess if we think in terms of the larger, more casual meta game, less susceptible to such changes, so D1 and below basically.... Then Zoo's hasty conclusion that the best choice is the one that gives the cutest bell curve on a graph in the hypothetical assumption of most opponents being at a similar power level, then yeah, Defense all the way, folks. And if there existed a situation in D3 where a shark is facing 99 other sharks as in Zoo's graphs assume, then sure, there too.

But in practice, as Ken said, we sharks instead face only a handful of fellow sharks, then a solid third of big fish, and then a majority of tender small fish at the bottom of the ranks, on a typical week. And that's a diet for the Harmo bonus to shine (for sharks, I should have specified), not the Defense noob trap.

(Purposely excluded whales from this analogy as these make much larger and less predictable waves on the meta, a trend that will only accelerate now, than their role in the analogy would have suggested).

Peace.

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image.png

If anything, you're persistent. I don't think either of us is going to convince or enlighten the other in this situation or on this topic, and I'm not interested in "fighting" you this way either. So again, once more with feelings: can we please agree to disagree and move on like adults? That's be neat.

Either way, I gave you a piece of my mind on your attitude several posts ago. Keep trying to tease me if you have nothing more mature to do, but I'm not interested in a "forum feud" with you. I was primarily addressing Ken (and other experienced high-end players) in that post, and focusing on the parts that you can't "solve" with maths. So, hmm... what's the opposite of summoning? Go back in your lamp, Genie! ^^ Thanks. Peace. Love. And most importantly buh-bye.

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16 hours ago, Kenrae said:
  • Zoo, you're forgetting something in all you maths: harmony not only increases your crit%, it decreases your opponent crit% by the same amount. So you should double its importance.

Yes I have, though it's not double. It's a bit less since the damage between you and an opponent is not equal. It would be better to multiply by 1.6 as I'll explain in a bit. Also I accidently overstated harmony's importance, in my first post, by conflating attack and damage. So I have updated my model

newModel.PNG.c3a2ea3a42b27cff96774f489e6e7d08.PNG

Reminder Def / Atk is equal to the % of the attack that is blocked by defense. This graph uses the maximum amount you could raise your crit % for the +24% Harmony. In the case of +12% Defense, blue line, the axes are in respect to Your Def / Opp Atk and in the case of +24% Harmony, purple line, the axes are in respect to Opp Def / Opp Atk (should be negative since your increasing damage, but I have mirrored it across the x axis for comparison.). You can approximate how much better +12% Defense is compared to +24% Harmony with the following equation

model.PNG.5c1f8bd6408df27dcd41944575cc0c87.PNG

where d_o = You Def / Opp Atk, d_p = Opp Def / Your Atk, and h = your Harm / (Your Harm / Opp Harm), with all values being taken before any bonus.

On 12/4/2022 at 5:58 PM, DvDivXXX said:

I'll say upfront that testing this on Pantheon doesn't impact what I'm about to elaborate upon whatsoever, because I'm having PvP in mind almost exclusively

Ok, to prove my point that +12% Defense is the better bonus, I have tested it in leagues with all 100 opponents I have currently.

On average my Defense / Opp Attack was 49.7%, Opp Def / my Atk was 28.4% (Thus my opponent's "damage ratio" is 57% of mine, this is why I used 1.6, not 2). On average I had a 15.8% cirt chance before the +24% Harmony bonus, translating to an average of +1.58% to the cirt chance with the +24% Harmony bonus.

league.PNG.aec875182b9247799d8292c3d755708e.PNG

My model predicted that +12% Defense would be 3.30x better, testing it and +12% Defense gave 3.49x a better increase to the average expected score than what +24% Harmony gave. For every single opponent I tested +12% Defense gave a better result than +24% Harmony.

kirk-surprised.gif

What a surprise, the mathematical model predicted nearly exactly how much better +12% Defense is over +24% Harmony.

Also...

On 12/5/2022 at 5:13 AM, DvDivXXX said:

You know what this is akin to?

First that post was not for you, I don't care if you hinder yourself, that was for anyone lost in the pile from your bullshit. You have only shown to be fully ignorant on the matter, any secondary effect from harmony or defense you tried to assert would somehow counter my point was done so without evidence, so I dismiss it without evidence, the burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. I have provided evidence for my claim and I can provide more. Of course your incapable of providing evidence yourself, so no surprise you moved on to personal attack against me. What this is akin to is a flat earther telling a scientist his model of the universe is wrong merely because he can't understand it. Case in point:

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Then Zoo's hasty conclusion that the best choice is the one that gives the cutest bell curve on a graph in the hypothetical assumption of most opponents being at a similar power level, then yeah

You have completely misunderstood my math. I have used no bell curves, I can only guess that you mistook the 2nd graph for one. The only assumption of similar power level was the original equal harmony values, before any bonus, which only results in a 0.0048% lower increase to crit chance than the best case scenario as displayed in the 2nd graph, this has been corrected in the new model.

I do not intent to change DvDivXXX's mind, I want to make sure no one buys DvDivXX's ignorant bullshit that is their miles long fairy tales that are completely divorced from the evidence.

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1 hour ago, zoopokemon said:

 

model.PNG.5c1f8bd6408df27dcd41944575cc0c87.PNG

 

I can do better than that.

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5 hours ago, FinderKeeper said:

@zoopokemon & @DvDivXXX

Guys, let's wind it down.

Please avoid responding to each other for a day or two. Ok?

Yes and no. We started chatting about this him and I outside of the forum, although let's just say I'm not holding my breath, especially since we had a long chat before his latest post, which turned out very insulting towards me anyway.

This will be handled, however, worry not my dear fellow mod (but please understand and trust that this is already in capable hands). I appreciate and mostly share your sentiment, though. Those unhealthy exchanges between Zoo and I went far beyond what I expected, let alone wanted. And this is neither going to extend further  nor happen again.

We both shared much more than we had to in the larger discussion on resonance bonuses as it is. We each have our fans and detractors (each other included for the latter group, that much is clear). Let's leave room for others to discuss.

I'm looking forward to more perspectives getting their time in the sun, here. Cheers. Div*

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6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

Yes and no. We started chatting about this him and I outside of the forum, although let's just say I'm not holding my breath, especially since we had a long chat before his latest post, which turned out very insulting towards me anyway.

This will be handled, however, worry not my dear fellow mod (but please understand and trust that this is already in capable hands). I appreciate and mostly share your sentiment, though. Those unhealthy exchanges between Zoo and I went far beyond what I expected, let alone wanted. And this is neither going to extend further  nor happen again.

We both shared much more than we had to in the larger discussion on resonance bonuses as it is. We each have our fans and detractors (each other included for the latter group, that much is clear). Let's leave room for others to discuss.

I'm looking forward to more perspectives getting their time in the sun, here. Cheers. Div*

Maybe just don't take emojis to your heart, Div.

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On 12/6/2022 at 9:50 PM, garadron said:

And now with the Seasons award... this is getting ridiculous

image.png.5354bdd0c460b248b99758e06f087552.png

4 out of 5

About the same as me. I've gotten 4 mythic items so far (1 seasons, 1 PoG, 2 PoA) of which 2 are just inferior resonances for slots occupied by the first two items I got. So I'm still sitting on two mythic items right now. At least one of them is Charm Attack resonance, but I'm going to be waiting a while to get a full set of mythic gear at this rate.

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in both my HH account and in my GH account I found 3 out of 5 mythic equipments that have a class charm resonance bonus that buffs attack. All of them for different slots. Of course, my player class is charm neither on HH nor on GH.

I feel like that as soon I'll spend those 600 kobans to switch class, I'll only found mythic equipments that'll match my original classes. 

I'm in spain without the s

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2 minutes ago, Antimon said:

in both my HH account and in my GH account I found 3 out of 5 mythic equipments that have a class charm resonance bonus that buffs attack. All of them for different slots. Of course, my player class is charm neither on HH nor on GH.

I feel like that as soon I'll spend those 600 kobans to switch class, I'll only found mythic equipments that'll match my original classes. 

I'm in spain without the s

just wait for a full set before spending kobans :)

 

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-Take these Mythic pants. Your first Mythic item! They doesn't match anything, but whatever.-

-Thank you! Well, no Class bonus, but more points anyway.-

-Wanna upgrade it to 20?-

-Why not. At Level 1 is less than my Legendaries...[while clicking] uhm, look those scores, interesting... Oh, no reason to wait for the Class one, how much chances there are th-

-Ka-ching! Second Mequip droppeeeed. Take these *other* Mythic pants.-

-Argh. Duplicates. Whatever. I knew I had a 17% of getting one and... No, wait. It's not a slot duplicate. It's the same exact pair of pants but...with Class bonus attached!-

-Way more better, don't you think? *wink wink*-

-I just levelled up the wrong pair of pants! There was just 1 in 647 chances to drop exactly *that* item!-

-Isn't this a clever example of statistic magic?-

-After so much items and Ymen wasted. It's... magically disturbing.-

-Third Mythic item comiiiiiing....-

-I DON'T WANNA SEE IT!-

-It's a wonderfull Katana for another Class and a Theme you'll never use. Wanna max it out?-

-... argh, i have for. [clicking] If the next item will be...-

-Din Dong! Fourth item to you! Katana Class matching delivereeeeed-

-You damned *#@#$ of a bitch!!!!! How much stuff I have to throw away?! Now I've become paranoid. Each drop is too important, too tense... I don't wanna drop anymore.-

 

And this is the story so far.

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