[ August 2nd, 2023 ] Girl Skills 💡

[Horsting]

@Attirm

A very nice summary, many thanks for posting it!

I do not agree with each and every part, though. E.g.:

• I do not skill the +70/70 stats bonus for 3* girls and below, which are relevant for PoPs and champs only, where only the primary stat counts. So there I max out +100 primary stats and rest into +1% primary stat. Though, in case of champs, I am not 100% sure whether the secondary stats do have a relevant impact on the girl's defence. For early and mid game, their defence can help enormously to gain equilibrium with damage you receive and healing your girls do, when using a mix of alternating CH and KH girls, maxing out the benefit of their class skill bonus effect (mostly ignoring the double damage poses, if it is HC). In a low average level club, this is also possible against Chayotte, gaining up to 20M Ymen in one battle. However, I don't know how the defence of girls against champs is derived.
• L5 should get their +1% primary stat raised to level 4, instead of +100. All new ones have their base value above 10k, the older ones get it above 10k with little gear. Though, not 100% sure whether the gear stat bonus is raised by this skill. Will check back.
• It should be mentioned, that the reflect skill is particularly strong for your defensive league team, since relevant opponents attack you when they are boosted, usually with a mythic booster as well, which gives them very high AP, while you are usually attacked unboosted. The reflect skill is very nasty for any attacker, since it reflects the very same damage, no matter how weak the opponent is, basically assuring lost points if you crit yourself, and do not have a shield with very high ego (which is why Chloralla boosters are best with shield against reflect).
• Stun is only better than shield, if you are battling an opponent that is stronger than you, i.e. if you are mostly assured to loose points anyway, and it is only about raising your change to lower lost points with lucky stuns. Reflect is often good then as well, so one needs to compare shield, stun and reflect then, and it also depends on your boosters, the opponents skill etc. For top 1 and top 4 candidates, it is usually not relevant anymore.

But that's minor things to discuss, add and in case adjust. Otherwise a great starting point for a guide 🙂.

EDIT: Ah, @bohammettuz just mentioned the reflect thing. And right, stun can be also annoying as defensive skill, at least if stronger opponents use it. But at least when using the full tier 3 bonus exhibitionist/submissive or physical/voyeur teams, it is out of question, since you have only shield and reflect available with those 😄.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Horsting

[Attirm]

8 hours ago, bohammettuz said:

Actually, I think that Stun is the only skill that is random, in that it has a % chance to activate on each turn (only once per fight though).
Both Shield and Reflect always trigger on the first turn.

Huh, I was certain this wasn't the case but watching some in-game fights just now it does seem to be so. I could have sworn I got through some Pantheon floors by denying them their Reflect, but maybe I'm misremembering. Definitely changes my writeup, and my assessment of Stun in general.

7 hours ago, Horsting said:

I do not skill the +70/70 stats bonus for 3* girls and below, which are relevant for PoPs and champs only

"Relevant" is a big stretch here as far as champions go. The power differential between a 5* girl you're actually putting effort to improving and a 3* girl is absolutely enormous. The 5* girls are the ones who are going to be responsible for almost all of your impression. 

I can't speak for PoP, though, as I was already a high-level player with a huge and well-developed harem by the time they were released. If they're a problem for low-level players, then I could see the flat +100 putting them over the edge there.

7 hours ago, Horsting said:

L5 should get their +1% primary stat raised to level 4, instead of +100. All new ones have their base value above 10k, the older ones get it above 10k with little gear. Though, not 100% sure whether the gear stat bonus is raised by this skill. Will check back.

An answer on the gear issue is very important. I think for the high-stat L5's it's pretty close to neutral between +100 and +1%, but gear could tip those scales in favor of 1%.

7 hours ago, Horsting said:

But at least when using the full tier 3 bonus exhibitionist/submissive or physical/voyeur teams

Eye Color and Favorite Pose teams have the choice between Stun and Execute

Hair Color and Astrological Sign teams have the choice between Shield and Reflect

I use Stun right now because I've committed to a Blue eyes team. It's inconsistent, but I don't bother aiming for top-4 anyways since I can take top-15 consistently without using mythic boosters. I've got a Blond hair team waiting to go, but there is currently no Submissive Blond Hair mythic to lead the team and provide mythic shield. My next goals are Virgo and Column, and Virgo with Mythic Bianca in the lead position will finally give me a good team with access to shield.

Edit, not sure if this should be in the guide since it's subject to constant change, but I updated my tracker on viable teams. This is how many 5* or better girls exist with that girl trait skill, ignoring any that have fewer than 6 candidates:

Trait	Total	Mythic	Legendary	Rare	Common
Column Position	10	4	6
Black Hair	10	3	7
Blue Eyes	25	2	17	2	4
Purple Eyes	10	2	8
Red Eyes	9	2	7
Indian Headstand	8	2	6
Virgo Sign	8	2	6
Golden Eyes	7	2	4	1
Green Eyes	19	1	16	1	1
Red Hair	13	1	8	1	3
Doggie	12	1	7	2	2
69 Position	11	1	7	1	2
Scorpio Sign	9	1	7		1
Ares Sign	8	1	7
Pink Hair	8	1	7
Taurus Sign	8	1	6		1
Leo Sign	7	1	6
Blue Hair	6	1	5
Bridge Position	7	1	4	1	1
Blond Hair	12		12
Nose Dive	12		11	1
Gemini Sign	8		8
Aquarius Sign	8		8
Purple Hair	8		6		2

Epics are not included since none of them have viable skills (sad since Gwaenelle and Geekette used to be very dominant on week of the Epic, but are now never worth using since their skills are so bad). Also to be very clear, Commons and Rares are filler choices for players with incomplete harems. Players who have access to better girls should be using better girls. The current meta is very hostile to anything lower than legendary rarity since their skills are much weaker.

Edited July 4, 2024 by Attirm

[Horsting]

On 7/4/2024 at 8:25 PM, Attirm said:

"Relevant" is a big stretch here as far as champions go. The power differential between a 5* girl you're actually putting effort to improving and a 3* girl is absolutely enormous. The 5* girls are the ones who are going to be responsible for almost all of your impression. 

When adding info about how to skill 3* (and 1*) girls, it however is all they can be reasonably used for. It's about rarities up to epic only, of course, when one simply has the bulbs left, which happens pretty fast. What I personally do, is when I finished a draft for a champ, and there are some rare, epic or common girls among them, I skill their tier 2. The benefit/difference is tiny, of course. However, when not taking champs into account, the only other "correct" info would be to not waste bulbs into any other then 5* and up girls at all.

On 7/4/2024 at 8:25 PM, Attirm said:

An answer on the gear issue is very important. I think for the high-stat L5's it's pretty close to neutral between +100 and +1%, but gear could tip those scales in favor of 1%.

As said, all "new" (non-ancient) L5 girls are close to, but above 10k, 10,313 to be precise: https://harem-battle.club/wiki/Harem-Heroes/HH:Hardcore-Haremettes

Some ancient ones as well, like Demi. Only some ancient ones are below 10k, and then much closer below than the others are above, like Blet or Bianca with 9,938:

• https://harem-battle.club/wiki/Harem-Heroes/HH:Know-How-Haremettes
• https://harem-battle.club/wiki/Harem-Heroes/HH:Charm-Haremettes

I tested now whether the bonus applies to gear as well, using Harem++ which does remove (or not show) the gear stats bonus, but the skill bonus:

• Without gear:
  
• With level 9 mythic (+270):
  
• The main stat diff without blessings is 10,735.8 - 10,725 = 10.8 = 4% * 270, matching precisely the additional skill bonus from gear.
• The main stat diff with blessings is 14,493.33 - 14,478.75 = 14.58 = 4% * 270 * 1.35, matching precisely the additional skill bonus from gear and blessings.

To be sure, I also checked her actual stats with full gear bonus from the team edit page:

• Without gear:
  
• With gear:
  
• 14,857.83 - 14,478.75 = 379.08 = 270 * 1.04 * 1.35, again matching exactly the (full) gear bonus with added skill bonus and blessings.

So the gear bonus indeed does contribute to the skill bonus, which easily brings every L5 girl above 10k, even with only level 1 common gear.

On 7/4/2024 at 8:25 PM, Attirm said:

I use Stun right now because I've committed to a Blue eyes team.

Oh, did you actually check with battle simulator whether this is better than replacing the 1st girl with shield, despite the missing tier 3 bonus? I did check this several times, and it was always much better to use an M6 shield. For attacking in league it was/is just SO much stronger, that all those bonuses and also blessings just did not matter. The only thing I could not test yet is other skill M6 with full tier 3 synergy + double blessing, vs M6 shield without any tier 3 synergy or blessing. But for defence, indeed the question is then whether, in the defence team, to replace the shield M6 with a reflect M6, or a stun one with full tier 3 synergy. Also depends a little on the additional gear you have for them, or whether you are in mood to always switch the gear between the two girls (which I never was) 😄.

On 7/4/2024 at 8:25 PM, Attirm said:

Edit, not sure if this should be in the guide since it's subject to constant change, but I updated my tracker on viable teams. This is how many 5* or better girls exist with that girl trait skill, ignoring any that have fewer than 6 candidates:

Nice overview. It probably makes sense to recommend Harem++ in the guide, where everyone can check this right in the game, for the girls one actually owns. For me, as I mentioned above, M6 without shield skill are not so relevant, but instead I check whether I have an M6 with shield skill and matching pose or eye colour, for at least half tier 3 synergy. Also, agreeing with you about C5 and R5: I do not consider them anymore, since their tier 3 and tier 4 bonuses are simply too low to be competitive. Only exception is "Previously Mythic Mala", who has at least L5 base stats, while she is C5. With common blessings, this shifts her slightly above the threshold. However, this is pretty much fine tuning, too much for an initial guide, I'd say, and also depends much on the personal game progress/girls.

Edited July 8, 2024 by Horsting

[Attirm]

8 hours ago, Horsting said:

So the gear bonus indeed does contribute to the skill bonus, which easily brings every L5 girl above 10k, even with only level 1 common gear.

So, for high-level players this makes things pretty trivial. L5 and M6 should use +1%, everyone else should use +100.

However, it does create some edge cases for lower-level players either way. A lot of new players won't have access to level 750, which means L5's will have lower stat totals that may make +100 better. On the other hand, some players might have reached level 750 but still have incomplete harems and rely on R5's to round out the roster (a bad skill is better than no skill) and equipment can take those over the 10,000 threshold.

But perhaps that's overcomplicating it and the guide should just keep it simple.

[Horsting]

Legendary bulbs are still a bottle neck for new players, I guess, so I would not recommend to "waste" bulbs on +100, just because the cap has not been raised to 750 yet. One could reset skills, but Ymen are probably the largest bottleneck until (hero) level 300 or so. So for L5 I would keep it simple indeed, and just recommend the +1% as this is finally best for them.

Regarding R5: I don't think that anyone will be able to gear them above 10k, at a point where it is still regularly needed to use them to complete the roaster. Let's see, 6 maxed mythic items give 1.8k, so a girl needs to have above 8.2k main stat to ever be able to benefit for more +1%. I just checked all R5: Only Battle Bunna has ~8.5k main stat, all others are below 8.2k. Once one has a nearly full set of level 10 mythic gear, I don't think she or one of the two E5 in the game will be relevant for PvP anymore.

So I agree to keep it simple, just recommending +1% for all L5 and above, +100 for all others. Similarly +70/70 for all 5* first, and skipping that one for all 3*. Still not sure whether the non-primary stat has relevant impact (defence) for champs in early/mid game, but similarly not worth to make it over-complicated for draft filler-girls.

Edited July 8, 2024 by Horsting

[Yamiray]

Is there a bug with Reflect. I've been trying to use it in pantheon vs a The Finisher. what is odd is when I'm Reflecting for those 2 turn my attacks seem to be healing the target. I even had a round where there attack reflected and they ended up  in the negatives, then my attack heals them then I lose.