The Labyrinth - Feature since December 6th 2023

[EpicBacon]

Okay, I've done some testing on the new roles, I have some good and some bad news.
I'll do them in the order on the list from the patch notes.



Masochist - 10% Defence Bonus.


Finaltits normal defence goes from 30.042 to 34.549. That is an increase of 15% instead of 10%
10% would have been : 30.042*1.10 = 33.046
15% makes it to be : 30.042*1.15 = 34.548 (rounded to 34.549)
No defence relics obtained when test was done.

Verdict - 5% more defence then advertised. Not sure if it has interactions with other defence relics, could be something to come back and check later.



Spermcaster - 75% more starting mana and regain.


Radka's starting mana and regain Does increase with 75% each.
Starting mana 21*1.75 = 36.75 (rounded up to 37)
Regain mana 20*1.75 =  35.

Here are the Json data, she starts with 37, round 1 gains 35, adds up to 72. round 2 gets to 100 and uses skill.

Verdict: This might actually be super strong.
Normally girlskills is cast at round 4, then each 5th round.
This makes the first cast start at round 2!! and is then cast every 3rd round. 
By the time a normal girl casts her second, a spermcaster has already done her 3rd cast. 
When the normal girl casts the 3rd time, the spermcaster does her 5th. 
An Eccentric spermcaster seems quite lethal.

Notable eccentric spermcasters; Radka (mythic) Atina, Zuzanna (legend) Metal Noemy (rare) 




Corkscrewer - Targets lowest ego girl.

Tested and confirmed, does not care about positioning.
Will hit the lowest ego girl regardless of her position.

Verdict - Application seems niche, unshure how to use this effectively; synergizes with Finish Move. 


Bugger - +40% critical damage, but -20% normal hit damage.


This is where the good news end, Housemaids attack is reduced by 20%
76.085*0.8= 60.868

Because the way damage is calculated, a lot of the damage is blocked by the defence. The added critical damage does not make up for the loss.

Damage formula:
(Girl base attack + damage increases) * Vigorous Motivation/Berserk = Modified Damage
Modified Damage - Enemy Defence = Total Damage.
If crit, then multiply Total Damage 2x. If additional critical dmg relics, adjust number accordingly.
(50% extra critical dmg = Total Damage*2.5)


Example 1:
This shows a Bugger housemaids critical damage vs a normal housemaid attack.
Only 20% extra damage on the critical vs a normal attack.


Example 2:
This shows a Bugger housemaid critical vs a normal housemaid critical.
Even tho the bugger has 40% extra crit damage, the raw damage from normal housemaid crit is 45% stronger.

To produce equal damage numbers, I had to increase the Bugger critical hit damage bonus from
40% to 150%


Example 3: 
This shows a Bugger housemaid regular attack vs a housemaid regular attack.
Normal housemaid does 86% more damage then the Bugger.


Fluffer - Fluffer heals for 30% less.
I had 2x90% dodge on my frontrow girls.
I did not take enough damage to accurately check the healing.

TL;DR. 

Masochist - 15% defence instead of 10%
Spermacaster - Works as intended, seem very strong with a eccentric girl.
Corkscrewer - Works as intended, ignores girl placement.
Bugger - Reduces base damage, making her do much less damage, completely useless.
Fluffer - Needs additional testing.

Edit; Uploaded better pictures for examples, I've separated out critical damage in case someone wants to do the math.

Edited November 17 by EpicBacon
Grammar, formatting, new and updated pictures.

[aeshka]

13 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

Okay, I've done some testing on the new roles, I have some good and some bad news.
I'll do them in the order on the list from the patch notes.



Masochist - 10% Defence Bonus.


Finaltits normal defence goes from 30.042 to 34.549. That is an increase of 15% instead of 10%
10% would have been : 30.042*1.10 = 33.046
15% makes it to be : 30.042*1.15 = 34.548 (rounded to 34.549)
No defence relics obtained when test was done.

Verdict - 5% more defence then advertised. Not sure if it has interactions with other defence relics, could be something to come back and check later.



Spermcaster - 75% more starting mana and regain.


Radka's starting mana and regain Does increase with 75% each.
Starting mana 21*1.75 = 36.75 (rounded up to 37)
Regain mana 20*1.75 =  35.

Here are the Json data, she starts with 37, round 1 gains 35, adds up to 72. round 2 gets to 100 and uses skill.

Verdict: This might actually be super strong.
Normally girlskills is cast at round 4, then each 5th round.
This makes the first cast start at round 2!! and is then cast every 3rd round. 
By the time a normal girl casts her second, a spermcaster has already done her 3rd cast. 
When the normal girl casts the 3rd time, the spermcaster does her 5th. 
An Eccentric spermcaster seems quite lethal.

Notable eccentric spermcasters; Radka (mythic) Atina, Zuzanna (legend) Metal Noemy (rare) 




Corkscrewer - Targets lowest ego girl.

Tested and confirmed, does not care about positioning.
Will hit the lowest ego girl regardless of her position.

Verdict - Application seems niche, unshure how to use this effectively; synergizes with Finish Move. 


Bugger - +40% critical damage, but -20% normal hit damage.


This is where the good news end, Housemaids attack is reduced by 20%
76.085*0.8= 60.868

Because the way damage is calculated, a lot of the damage is blocked by the defence. The added critical damage does not make up for the loss.

Damage formula:
(Girl base attack + damage increases) * Vigorous Motivation/Berserk = Modified Damage
Modified Damage - Enemy Defence = Total Damage.
If crit, then multiply Total Damage 2x. If additional critical dmg relics, adjust number accordingly.
(50% extra critical dmg = Total Damage*2.5)


Example 1:
This shows a Bugger housemaids critical damage vs a normal housemaid attack.
Only 20% extra damage on the critical vs a normal attack.


Example 2:
This shows a Bugger housemaid critical vs a normal housemaid critical.
Even tho the bugger has 40% extra crit damage, the raw damage from normal housemaid crit is 45% stronger.

To produce equal damage numbers, I had to increase the Bugger critical hit damage bonus from
40% to 150%


Example 3: 
This shows a Bugger housemaid regular attack vs a housemaid regular attack.
Normal housemaid does 86% more damage then the Bugger.


Fluffer - Fluffer heals for 30% less.
I had 2x90% dodge on my frontrow girls.
I did not take enough damage to accurately check the healing.

TL;DR. 

Masochist - 15% defence instead of 10%
Spermacaster - Works as intended, seem very strong with a eccentric girl.
Corkscrewer - Works as intended, ignores girl placement.
Bugger - Reduces base damage, making her do much less damage, completely useless.
Fluffer - Needs additional testing.

Edit; Uploaded better pictures for examples, I've separated out critical damage in case someone wants to do the math.

By my calculations a green spermacaster gives a profit of mana
They regenerate 42 mana to other girls.

Let's take 30 rounds and 3 girls:

With no spermacaster and no green girls, they will generate 600 mana each and use their skills 6 times

If we replace one girl with a green spermacaster, then the spermacaster will generate 1000 mana(100 mana every 3 rounds) and use her skill 10 times, which will generate 840 mana for other girls. So we profit 240 mana over 30 rounds

BUT, this is assuming that the timing of refilling mana is ideal, but that is not the case.

When your girl receive s mana and has over 100 mana, she will skip the turn for mana regeneration, which is a huge downside for green girls
And they continue to give mana to girls with over 100 mana and dont prioritize girls w/o mana

Edited November 17 by aeshka

[EpicBacon]

7 hours ago, aeshka said:

By my calculations a green spermacaster gives a profit of mana
They regenerate 42 mana to other girls.

Let's take 30 rounds and 3 girls:

With no spermacaster and no green girls, they will generate 600 mana each and use their skills 6 times

If we replace one girl with a green spermacaster, then the spermacaster will generate 1000 mana(100 mana every 3 rounds) and use her skill 10 times, which will generate 840 mana for other girls. So we profit 240 mana over 30 rounds

BUT, this is assuming that the timing of refilling mana is ideal, but that is not the case.

When your girl receive s mana and has over 100 mana, she will skip the turn for mana regeneration, which is a huge downside for green girls
And they continue to give mana to girls with over 100 mana and dont prioritize girls w/o mana

You do make some good points, when I looked at spermcaster I only considered red and white, as most of the other girl skills are somewhat questionable. Alltho when thinking about it, a blue spermcaster is probably quite good too.

The problem (as you pointed out in your post) is that the mana goes to two random girls, a sexomancer does not use mana unless she can revive. 1 sexomancer is 14.2% of your team, while running 2 sexomancers would mean 28.5% of your team does not need mana (if things are going to plan)

I seem to remember you cannot save up mana; as a girl will use all available mana, even if you exceed 100.
Don't quote me on this tho, if I am wrong and mana saving is a thing, then green could be quite useful.

Red (eccentric) seems strong, more burnout for more damage.
White (submissive) seems strong too, extra healing to stabilize the frontline early on when you need seems good to me.
Blue (sensual) Can't go wrong with shields, still random who is cast on, but better chance with more casts.
Black (domi) One extra attack each 3rd round (critical if 5 bulbs) Basically 1/3 more attacks. Seems fine, but red probably better overall
Yellow (playful) Stun is unreliable, more unreliable stun is still unreliable.
Purple (Voyeur) Mana drain still bad.
Green (exhib) A lot better with spermcaster then a normal girl. Is reliant on mana going to a girl you need it on. Unshure how it will work in practice as its highly dependent on the team, and what girl gets the mana. High Variance


BUGGER ANALYSIS

After my testing last night I decided to take a closer look at the bugger role, It's really bad, but I just wanted to see just how bad it is.

So first of all, the reduction in attack is very bad, because all damage numbers are based on this one stat. Having a lower attack means that more damage is blocked by the enemy's defence, since critical is calculated after enemy defence, it makes criticals do way less damage.

It's also worth noting that since the enemies is scaled towards your best girls, you will face girls with really high defence towards the end of the run, the final boss on hard mode will have 215-225% the defence rating of your best girls. Your bugger girls will do bugger all against the boss.

I've setup a spreadsheet to compare a normal girl against bugger girls with the same attack level, but with different levels of critical damage added to them, just to see how bad they are.



Normal critical rate in the laby is 15% dependent on harmony, higher harmony gives you more critical and lowers the enemy critical. To simplyfy I am not going to use harmony in this example apart from the first 10% critical test.

10% critical; if you pick up no critical chance % relics or harmony relics, you will fall behind in critical chance, on hard mode you will be below 10% on the final boss.
For a bugger girl to break even in damage against a normal girl with 10% crit, her critical damage would have to be increased from 40% to 800%.

20% critical (1 legendary crit chance relic)
A bugger would need 500% critical damage in order to do slighly more damage then a normal girl.

30% critical (3 legendary crit chance relic) good luck with that
A bugger almost breaks even at 300% critical damage. 400% does slighly more then a normal girl.

40% critical (5 legendary crit chance relic (more like 6 due to harmony)) Welcome to fantasy land.
A bugger would need 300% critical damage to do slightly more damage.

These are numbers against a hard laby floor3 normal (yellow) fight. These do not represent damage against a boss, I have not done the calculations, but I assume her damage will be too low to even get a hit in.

Suggested changes;
Remove the attack debuff and give her a base +200% critical damage bonus.
Or
Give her an innate +10% critical chance and give her a +100% critical damage bonus.

I think anything less then this would make buggers unusable in the laby, especially with so many better options to pick from.

 

Edited November 17 by EpicBacon
bugger analysis

[aeshka]

why even bother with any type of damage, bugger or not, when the main damage is burnout (like 90% on lvl 5 boss)
they should make the bugger ignore defense and rethink domi girls

[EpicBacon]

15 hours ago, aeshka said:

why even bother with any type of damage, bugger or not, when the main damage is burnout (like 90% on lvl 5 boss)
they should make the bugger ignore defense and rethink domi girls

So I do like the idea of different roles and builds, and a crit build does make sense. A build that focuses on critical damage makes a lot of sense, the problem is that the laby has no obligation to give you any critical relics. Therefore it is going to very dependent on the relics you get.

The problem is that the enemies scales so high compared to your girls that unless you get several dodge relics or heaps of protective bubble, you need to make the most consistent team you can.

For me this happens to be 2 sexomancers and 5 fluffers, with 2 fluffers being white (healer) and 2 are red (burnout)
The spermcaster is a good introduction, I'll probably change one of my eccentric fluffers into an eccentric spermcaster.
Since I've also managed to get 2x90 dodge relics in my saved sweeps for floor 1 and 2 I might drop a sexomancer and put in a Corkscewer. She can then target any enemy girls that gets burned out, with some Finish move she can take out girls in the backrow without having to chew thru the entire enemy team.

They have adressed the fluffer partly by reducing their healing damage (I've not tested it, I should tho, since the way bugger was implemented I should check jsut exactly how they changed the fluffer healing.

In summary, I see what you are saying, and you are not wrong. There would have to be some rebalancing of skill to make more stuff viable, that means making other roles better, not just nerfing Eccentric and Fluffers.

[aeshka]

20 hours ago, EpicBacon said:

So I do like the idea of different roles and builds, and a crit build does make sense. A build that focuses on critical damage makes a lot of sense, the problem is that the laby has no obligation to give you any critical relics. Therefore it is going to very dependent on the relics you get.

The problem is that the enemies scales so high compared to your girls that unless you get several dodge relics or heaps of protective bubble, you need to make the most consistent team you can.

For me this happens to be 2 sexomancers and 5 fluffers, with 2 fluffers being white (healer) and 2 are red (burnout)
The spermcaster is a good introduction, I'll probably change one of my eccentric fluffers into an eccentric spermcaster.
Since I've also managed to get 2x90 dodge relics in my saved sweeps for floor 1 and 2 I might drop a sexomancer and put in a Corkscewer. She can then target any enemy girls that gets burned out, with some Finish move she can take out girls in the backrow without having to chew thru the entire enemy team.

They have adressed the fluffer partly by reducing their healing damage (I've not tested it, I should tho, since the way bugger was implemented I should check jsut exactly how they changed the fluffer healing.

In summary, I see what you are saying, and you are not wrong. There would have to be some rebalancing of skill to make more stuff viable, that means making other roles better, not just nerfing Eccentric and Fluffers.

I also run 2 sexomancer 1 red fluffer and 4 blue fluffers. I used to have whites, but based n my observations the blues are more efficient.
For your setup with 2 whites, it's good to have a green girl, so that she can shift the healing by 1-2 rounds.

[EpicBacon]

3 minutes ago, aeshka said:

I also run 2 sexomancer 1 red fluffer and 4 blue fluffers. I used to have whites, but based n my observations the blues are more efficient.
For your setup with 2 whites, it's good to have a green girl, so that she can shift the healing by 1-2 rounds.

The reason i am running white and red only is that I can focus on eccentric and submissive elemental relics only.
Thus each elemetal relic i pick up is worth more in terms on damage. (4 red and 3 white girls)

I've experimented with blue in the past, but I found it that the healing was more consistent since it hit all girls, while the shield is random who it gets casted on. You are correct with the healing tho, they usually cast on the same turn, meaning one cast is usually wasted.

I might want to try switching out a red and a white girls for spermcasters instead of fluffers, as the extra mana will space out their healing.

I did a small test in yesterdays Laby, I could not find any healing reduction on my fluffers, I'll have to run another test sometime later as I didn't have much time yesterday and had to finish the laby quick.

[xRob91]

My first thought after reading Masochist description was "uh oh, another role that will cause phantom girl bug". I decided to test this. Those are my top girls on test server:

At the beginning I was doing fights like always but then I put Karaya in team and didn't have to wait long for "phantom girl" to appear.

I compared the stats of opponent's girls but assumed that Karaya was T4 in my squad. Results looked just as I expected.

Cynthia and Ivy got 15% def bonus. In Ivy's case it's because she's Masochist herself. Her bonus doesn't affect her position in opponent team though. It's different story with Cynthia who copies Karaya's stats after role bonus was applied. Just like in Dominator case it works only when Masochist is in the player's team.

[EpicBacon]

58 minutes ago, xRob91 said:

My first thought after reading Masochist description was "uh oh, another role that will cause phantom girl bug"

Oh wow, I didn't even consider this, and yeah you are totally right, infact since they get 15% compared to dominator 5%, there is more chance of a Masochist to appear.

I did not remember how the bug worked in the first place, but thanks to the great laby guide that's been constructed.
I was able to easily find the formula.

The formula for the general total Power is:  ceil(Ego + 7.5 * (Attack + Defence) + 0.625 * Speed)
So where dominators adds Attack: ceil(Attack*1.05) a Masochist adds : ceil(defence*1.15)

I guess that this means that the enemy can get even more defence, if you have a Masochist in top7, and the enemy girl that copies that girl happens to be Masochist too, then she'll get even more defence.

@xRob91 Thanks for finding this out and also for confirming that the defence buff is 15%

[Ich42]

Thanks to everyone who posted here.

I agree with almost everything EpicBacon posted.

But I prefer blue girls. I'm not sure what my team should look like yet. I have two girls with over 100% dodge. My current team has four blue and three red girls. The team I will soon have, also based on the ideas exchanged here, will also have four Blue and three Red girls, but with 5 Fluffers, 1 Sexomancer, and 1 Corkscrewer.

I still see the problem that if a boss 5 battle has a lot of Corkscrewers, it could cause problems, but luckily I haven't seen such a team yet.

I don't have much time at the moment, but I'm following it. And when I have more time, I'll try to adapt the summary for bolitho76. But you're welcome to do that too . 

 

[Edit]

Just a question, which girls would you say should get dodge, ideally?

 

And another question: what do you think is the minimum number of fluffers a team should have if it has girls in the front with over 72% / 90% / 100% dodge?

 

The answer to my question about how many fluffers you need at least. Since I don't have any white girls, I would say 5. With white girls, I'm not sure, since part of the healing is done by the white girls and I have no experience with that.

 

I currently have two blue fluffers (Mil and Blance) with dodge over 100%.

I'm considering swapping Mil's dodge for Isis Hedjouret's dodge for maximum damage distribution, but that could take a while.

 

Another consideration is mine. That I replace my two front girls, blue + fluffer, with other girls. Namely, with two blue spermcasters, and then farm relics until they have over 100% dodge.

 

Compared to three blue fluffers, the two blue spermcasters make more shields.

 

But then you'll probably need a white girl with a maximum of 4 fluffers in your team if you want to have a sexmancer.

Edited December 2 by Ich42

[asde1g]

Hey guys, does anyone know what this is? 260M is too much. H.com

 

Edited 17 hours ago by asde1g

[Der DinX]

Guess 230M sounds easy compared to 60G

  

13 hours ago, Alander said:

An enemy with 60G+ appeared right on the first floor of the labyrinth. Is it another glitch or is it supposed to be like this?

EDIT

This time, super-powerful opponents appeared in each of the games (HH,CxH,PsH,MangaRPG).

 

 

[holymolly]

2 hours ago, asde1g said:

Hey guys, does anyone know what this is? 260M is too much. H.com

 

new bug ..which has been reported... I hope they fix it soon because apparently it´s also affecting league... (lucky me ..yeah I got one)