Current Attraction System is BAD and UNFAIR

[haplo]

ENGLISH
This new attraction system didn't just introduced a way to keep track with the chance of getting girls, it worsened everything. Now we have a chance to get some Attaction Points for these girls, eating the normal money drop. Moreover it seems now impossible to get a girl for free the first time it's available, while it WAS possible before (most of the girls I have was recluted this way). 
Short words, we got scummed.

Now, this is my suggestion to make this system fair.

_ Money ALWAYS drop by beating bosses
_ EVERY win against bosses give 1 to 3 Attaction Points (random)
_ Total Number of Attraction Points needed to recluit a Girl should be fixed based on Event Days and his Rarity (for example, a 4 days Common Event Girl should need 150 Attraction Points, while a 4 days Legendary Event Girl should need 450). Obviously, that number must not change during time and you keep you Attraction Points at the end of the event.
_ When you reach the right amount of Attaction Points to recluit a girl, you do so, you don't get money from Boss, and convert any points in excess in Legendary Flower Affection Items.
OPTIONAL:
_ Monthly Cards users and Patreons may be blessed with better chance of obtaining 3 Attraction Points.

I hope this helps and that this system will change this way. Thank you for reading.

ITALIANO
Il nuovo sistema di attrazione non ha introdotto solamente un modo per tenere traccia della conquista delle nuove ragazze, ma ha peggiorato l'intero sistema di reclutamento. Ora abbiamo una chance di ottenere Punti Attrazione con ogni vittoria, ma quando ciò succede non otteniamo soldi. Inoltre sembra essere impossibile ottenere le nuove ragazze gratuitamente al primo evento disponibile, mentre prima lo era eccome (la maggior parte delle ragazze nel mio Harem sono state reclutate gratis).
In poche parole, siamo stati fregati.

Questi sono i miei suggerimenti per rendere il sistema di attrazione più onesto e simile al precedente.

_ Ogni vittoria contro i Boss deve dare il premio in denaro
_ Ogni vittoria contro i Boss deve dare da 1 a 3 Punti Attrazione (quanti punti è casuale)
_ I Punti Attrazione necessari per reclutare una ragazza non saranno più 100, ma variabili a seconda della rarità della stessa e dei giorni disponibili per l'evento (ad esempio, una Ragazza Comune di un Evento di 4 giorni dovrebbe necessitare di 150 Punti Attrazione, mentre una Ragazza Leggendaria di un evento di 4 giorni dovrebbe necessitare di 450 Punti Attrazione). Ovviamente, in caso non si riesca a reclutare la ragazza in questione, il numero di punti necessari non dovrà cambiare e si manterranno i punti ottenuti.
_ Quando si raggiunge il numero di Punti Attrazione necessari a reclutare la ragazza, essa viene aggiunta all'Harem, non si riceve denaro da quella battaglia, e ogni Punto Attrazione in eccesso viene convertito in Fiori Leggendari per l'Affetto.
OPZIONALE:
_ I membri del Patreon e gli abbonati alla Carta Mensile dovrebbero avere più chance di ottenere 3 Punti Attrazione da una battaglia.

Spero che questo aiuti e che il sistema venga cambiato in questo modo. Grazie per aver letto.

Edited March 1, 2019 by haplo

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, haplo said:

ENGLISH
This new attraction system .....

Thank you for the suggestion some sounds quite hard to make effective  like " EVERY win against bosses give 1 to 3 Attaction Points (random)". Even the variability of Attraction point, this would create "differences" between the girls, some players will not try to catch legendary girls for example  

But it's very good to see players interested to improve the game

p.s: Finalmente qualcuno che si esprime nella mia lingua, mi fa piacere vedere che siete attivi e interessati!

[Andrea]

Con haplo abbiamo discusso molto nella chat del club e in molti si lamentavano e oltretutto si sentivano demotivati a giocare per i recenti cambi. onestamente sembra molto piu difficile reclutare le ragazze rispetto a prima. e ci si aggiunge le numerose perdite dei drop. Oltretutto son capitate volte dove da da karole non ho ottenuto nulla.... non so se sia un bug o che ma prima di segnalare si è aspettato, fiduciosi che i problemi fossero evidenti e risolti come solito in tempi ridotti. Ma vedendo la situazione che non cambiava si è deciso di fare una segnalazione che io credo sia una opinione diffusa ma evidentemente non è stata riportata a Voi in maniera sufficente.

Saluti

Andrea

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Andrea said:

Con haplo abbiamo discusso ....

Before the obvious post "this is an English Forum" I'll write this, to remind you to write in Shakespeare's language

If you want to tell your opinion in Dante's language, check this topic 

 

[haplo]

54 minutes ago, horo kinkoid said:

Thank you for the suggestion some sounds quite hard to make effective  like " EVERY win against bosses give 1 to 3 Attaction Points (random)". Even the variability of Attraction point, this would create "differences" between the girls, some players will not try to catch legendary girls for example  

I don't agree. Girls are already different, since we get different points in different events. It's just a matter of balance. If you allow to catch a girl by winning 40 times a day against a boss, just like I calculated, everyone will just try to log in twice a day and manage to do that. If you require 60, then that means it will take 2 shots or people will pay some Kobans. Obviously, if the Attraction requirement is 3000, no one will ever try that. Don't be greedy and players will gladly spend.

Edited March 1, 2019 by haplo

[natstar]

If you wanted it to be easier for monthly card users to get harem members from villains.

you would be better off suggesting for the 12 koban cost for the 10x perform battle option to be removed for them since that only gives a time-saving advantage instead of an increased drop advantage.  (That would actually have a chance of happening if enough players suggested it but giving a higher drop rate is a bit unfair to new players just starting out)

[haplo]

10 minutes ago, natstar said:

If you wanted it to be easier for monthly card users to get harem members from villains.

you would be better off suggesting for the 12 koban cost for the 10x perform battle option to be removed for them since that only gives a time-saving advantage instead of an increased drop advantage.  (That would actually have a chance of happening if enough players suggested it but giving a higher drop rate is a bit unfair to new players just starting out)

That's my last concern actually and marked as optional for a reason. These kind of gifts mean nothing if all the rest stays the way it is. Focus on the main problem

[pitythefool]

Honestly, the new system is better than the old system in pretty much every way. You've noted the only negative which is that you lose out on battle cash every time you win attraction. These amounts aren't that meaningful in the grand scheme of things. (There are other negatives I could list off, but it's more for more veteran players who have already passed through worlds, but I digress for now). The new system is an improvement over the old system, you'll pretty much get all the boss girls before you end up finishing a zone now. As for event girls, most should still be acquirable without using kobans. The exception would be Legendary Days girls and Epic days girls, since Legendary Days are usually 4 days long which is roughly 200 boss battles and the math and testing indicates it takes approximately 500 to get one.

The math if you're curious is about a 10% Shard rate from battles. Assuming the boss has no other girls, this is what you're looking at in an average situation:

- Legendary Event Girls drop 1-3 (so an average of 2) which = ~500 battles as a reasonable assumption to acquire the girl

- Epic Events drop 1-5 (3 average) = ~333 battles

- Classic Events 1-6 (3.5 average) = ~286 battles

- Revival Events 1-12 (6.5 average) = ~154 battles per girl

This current event is a 'Classic Event' so each girl should take you roughly ~285 battles to get. The events 12 days long which should afford you 576 battles guaranteed if you don't let your battle meter max out. So getting both girls should be possible without spending kobans barring bad luck. 

Moral of the story I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Play more strategically, save more kobans. There is a method to the madness of the release/event schedules. Build up a supply of kobans so you can get the girls you want on epic and legendary day events. This entire event should net you ~2500+ kobans (HH), 12 dailies -1800, 12 days of event mission quests ranging from 42-108 I believe? Plus you're likely to place top 4 in contests which are additional kobans assuming you play often enough, along with weekly rewards such as tower of fame and league. 

You can still get a 100 attraction critical on girls, it's just rarer than before from what I can tell. I got donatiens event girl on the test server within 10 attacks.

[Chthugha]

26 minutes ago, pitythefool said:

12 days of event mission quests ranging from 42-108 I believe?

If you are curious about the exact values...
Day 1: 42 kobans
Day 2: 48 kobans
Day 3: 48 kobans
Day 4: 96 kobans
Day 5: 108 kobans
Day 6: 66 kobans
Day 7: 72 kobans
Day 8: 84 kobans
Day 9: 90 kobans
Day 10: 96 kobans
Day 11: 108 kobans
Day 12: 114 kobans
(and previously... day 13 - 120 kobans and day 14 - 126 kobans).
For a total of 972 kobans.

[haplo]

47 minutes ago, pitythefool said:

The math if you're curious is about a 10% Shard rate from battles. Assuming the boss has no other girls, this is what you're looking at in an average situation:

- Legendary Event Girls drop 1-3 (so an average of 2) which = ~500 battles as a reasonable assumption to acquire the girl

- Epic Events drop 1-5 (3 average) = ~333 battles

- Classic Events 1-6 (3.5 average) = ~286 battles

- Revival Events 1-12 (6.5 average) = ~154 battles per girl

 

I'll put to test your math in this event. By the way, I'd like you to consider this: 1 Classic event and you should be able, being lucky, to recruit 1 girl of the 2+ available. I've always attempted to recruit both in this kind of situations. For free. Saving Kobans for bigger and more important events. Let's see if it's possible again. If not, why did we get punished?

[pitythefool]

25 minutes ago, haplo said:

I'll put to test your math in this event. By the way, I'd like you to consider this: 1 Classic event and you should be able, being lucky, to recruit 1 girl of the 2+ available. I've always attempted to recruit both in this kind of situations. For free. Saving Kobans for bigger and more important events. Let's see if it's possible again. If not, why did we get punished?

I understand where you're coming from. I felt the same way, but the truth of the matter is it was always luck. I generally felt like I could get girls within 40-150 attacks, but I definitely ran into situations where it would take 6, 7 or 800 attacks to get one girl. Amount of attacks never improved RNG of event girls. This new system basically makes those situations of bad luck extremely unlikely. Acquiring boss girls is much easier now, and acquiring event girls for all intents and purposes is easier as well (since both extremes of good and bad luck have essentially been removed/mitigated greatly), with the exception of epic/legendaries where spending kobans is pretty much necessary now - HOWEVER, as I believe I stated before, these events aren't that common so saving up some kobans between the 1-2 month breaks shouldn't be the most difficult thing to do. 

I have done some fairly extensive testing and it has indicated theoretical numbers that you can reasonably hope to get a girl from (basically that 10% rate, if not slightly better). If you keep track of your attacks, attraction attacks and total attraction you can see how it all panned out. RNG is RNG though, so if it takes more or takes less, it is what it is. Legendary girl Fabienne for example, took me 417 attacks, 51 shard events, 15 legendary gifts, but regardless I did better than the 10% rate (12.2%). I repeated the test on the test server and it took between 451-460 attacks (Was using x10's in this example) and it was 48 shard events (10.4%), 17 legendary gifts. Either way both took less than the estimated 500 attacks, not to say you won't fall on the unlucky side of the spectrum, but I also don't think you'd ever have to use more than say ~700 attacks to get a legendary girl now with very bad RNG. People in the past have spent thousands upon thousands of kobans and gotten nothing so this really helps them out. And honestly, if you had to buy 500 attacks to get a legendary girl, you're still coming out equal to or better than the Epic Pachinko (216 x 25 = 5400) which is always a good thing in terms of value a girl, especially a legendary one.

I didn't really have the best luck with the last revival, Loving Lupa and Loving Bunny, but even then I still was able to get them both in 296 total attacks which meant yes I had to spend someeee kobans, but they were still under the guesstimated acquire rate of 308. All I can suggest is that you try doing some veteran moves to help mitigate the amount of kobans you spend, such as allowing your attack bar to stay mostly filled prior to reset to give yourself 18-20 free attacks to start off an event. Theoretically, it was 240 attacks from the 5 day event + the pre saved 18-20 attacks, then 0-10 extra attacks from arena dailies, then you have to buy refills, 2 refills would cost ya 432, while the 5 days of missions gives you 750. As long as you aren't losing kobans in the grand scheme of things, I don't really see the issue, because you ultimately get events like this current one, where you should be able to get the 2 boss girls and the mission girl (assuming you don't have them) and you're LIKELY going to get nearly 3000 kobans without having to spend any which affords you ~300 attacks in future events.

 

@Chthugha Thanks for the koban numbers.

[kairax]

I have to disagree with you pity, the drop rate is way worse than that.  So far on average, on each of the 12 day event things, I usually have both girls by roughly day 8 (3-4 days per girl, no kobans used).  It's almost day 3 of this event, and despite going about 100 runs for Grunt, I have...8 attraction with his girl.  8.  not 80.   8.  As much as you can say "oh, it's just rng" no, not really.  The disparity of any sort of affection shard drop rate is atrociously bad.  Add to that this is a Rare quality girl, not a legendary and it's even worse, and more pathetic.  Moreso, according to your numbers, I should be roughly halfway through, but 8 is not 50, in fact according to math, no where close.

Honestly the biggest issue with this system is drop rate (I don't mind losing money for shards, tbh it's not that big of a deal).  1-5 on a 100 scale is minuscule and requires a rediculous amount of luck, time, chances, and most probably, koban spending.  Doesn't matter if the attraction lasts to the next event if you're only going to average maybe 25 affections shards per event?  Basically the new system is going to make either a koban spending spree or you're only increasing your harem through guarantee drop girls.

TL:DR - The suggestion

1) Increase the chance of getting shard drops

2) Increase number of shard drop minimum based on the quality of the girl, ie: starting = 15-25, rare = 10-15, epic 5-10, legandary 1-5, or something along those lines.  This further supports the rarity of girls: it's harder to get the higher quality ones.

As it currently stands, it takes longer to get girls now, or you have to pray to extreme luck to not get f**ked out constantly by running and hoping in your 20+ runs you don't get only 1 set of shards, which is most likely going to be a 1.

[Lhans]

57 minutes ago, kairax said:

As it currently stands, it takes longer to get girls now, or you have to pray to extreme luck to not get f**ked out constantly by running and hoping in your 20+ runs you don't get only 1 set of shards, which is most likely going to be a 1.

Yeah, gotta hate that long drought being broken by 1 shard. Then another long drought followed by yet another 1 shard. And so on.

[pitythefool]

14 hours ago, kairax said:

I have to disagree with you pity, the drop rate is way worse than that.  So far on average, on each of the 12 day event things, I usually have both girls by roughly day 8 (3-4 days per girl, no kobans used).  It's almost day 3 of this event, and despite going about 100 runs for Grunt, I have...8 attraction with his girl.  8.  not 80.   8.  As much as you can say "oh, it's just rng" no, not really.  The disparity of any sort of affection shard drop rate is atrociously bad.  Add to that this is a Rare quality girl, not a legendary and it's even worse, and more pathetic.  Moreso, according to your numbers, I should be roughly halfway through, but 8 is not 50, in fact according to math, no where close.

Honestly the biggest issue with this system is drop rate (I don't mind losing money for shards, tbh it's not that big of a deal).  1-5 on a 100 scale is minuscule and requires a rediculous amount of luck, time, chances, and most probably, koban spending.  Doesn't matter if the attraction lasts to the next event if you're only going to average maybe 25 affections shards per event?  Basically the new system is going to make either a koban spending spree or you're only increasing your harem through guarantee drop girls.

TL:DR - The suggestion

1) Increase the chance of getting shard drops

2) Increase number of shard drop minimum based on the quality of the girl, ie: starting = 15-25, rare = 10-15, epic 5-10, legandary 1-5, or something along those lines.  This further supports the rarity of girls: it's harder to get the higher quality ones.

As it currently stands, it takes longer to get girls now, or you have to pray to extreme luck to not get f**ked out constantly by running and hoping in your 20+ runs you don't get only 1 set of shards, which is most likely going to be a 1.

The numbers I put out are guesstimates based on Averages from data and Averages are just that, Averages. Some people fall below average and some people are above average. Not gonna lie, 8 shards in ~100 attempts is pretty terrible, but who is to say you wont get something like 20 shards in your next 10 attempts? (Or even the 100 crit). Also ~100 tries is more like 1/3rd of the guesstimated average (~286) so I'm not trying to downplay your bad luck, but you still have essentially 4 days (~190 attacks) to get back on track.

Additionally the idea that you're only going to get 1 shard each time it pops up is ridiculous. I can say with pretty good confidence that the numbers are basically equal chance to get any shard value in the allotted range (1-6 for this particular event).

Now while I agree with you that girls were for the most part easier to get before, this new system is better for multiple reasons. The fact that you know how many shards you need to get a girl at the end of an event is extremely helpful. Gives you a strong idea of how many kobans you would roughly need to spend in order to acquire her based on the data/averages. And again that previous point also plays a part when you're in a mad scramble to get additional girls in short events. For example the last epic days I managed to snag 3 girls which may not be so easy under the new system (though I was using kobans for refills throughout anyway), but the last girl I tried to get, the ring tv girl (vissihar).. I ended up spending 1-2k kobans (HH) as a last ditch effort trying to snag her and ended up with nothing. Under the new system I'd either A. Have shards for next time, or B. Know roughly how much more I would have needed to spend to finish her off, instead of firing aimlessly hoping to RNGsus that I got her.

So anyway, long story short, yes girls are likely harder to get now, especially if its 2 girls in a short 4-5 day window and may cost you some kobans in general, but with that said, you also aren't going to be wasting tons of kobans 'hoping' you get a girl. You have tangible progress now and an idea of what it will take to finish getting said girl. And as I said in my previous post, these types of long events should be building up your koban supplies while generally letting you get the boss event girls for free. (If you're going to throw kobans at pachinko, that's on you, if/when you don't have enough kobans for event boss girls).

I'm sorry you're having some god awful RNG right now, but I don't think that's indicative of the system as a whole. I've run more than a handful of tests and it pretty much all parses out to 9-15% shard rates.

(Just a suggestion, if the RNG feels really bad try doing some x10's. I feel like it can help in those situations based on some experience, but I make no guarantee about it, however I did just get a x17 on gruntt doing that on the test server - to be fair something like that isn't THAT common though, but you could reasonably expect like 3-7 with this events rates (1-6). That's not to say you wont get 0's and sometimes get like 15+, RNG is RNG. I just did another x10 on a different test account where gruntt still has all his girls and got 13 for her, I'll include the picture. Just to be clear this won't necessarily improve your numbers overall (IE you most likely wont get 13 every time and finish a girl in 80 attacks, but say you get 13 a couple times, all of a sudden you're back on track), the averages over the course of getting a girl in the long haul will still be that 9-15% rate - I can post both my Fabienne results from legendary days if you want, one was singles and one was only x10's). 

Edited March 3, 2019 by pitythefool
Clarity and added a picture

[EdMuse]

I don't have much to post in the way of statistics, but I can say that I haven't gotten one single girl under the new system.  Not one.  Not even close, in fact.  For instance, I've almost leveled Karole up to level 280, so that's 150 levels at ten battles per level = 1500 battles with her.  In all of those battles, I have earned a total of 54 shards for her girls, 25 for one and 29 for the other.  That would suggest that in plain ol' routine play, it will take nearly 12,000 to win those two girls. For Fabienne, dumping all of my combativity points for the entire duration of her event into winning her, I got 33 shards.  Figuring she may return once per year, it looks as though it will take over three years to win her.

My problem, then, is with what this does to the feel of the game.  Under the old system, it felt like a stroke of luck to win a girl, a victory.  This just feels like grinding.  And it creates an obvious PTW situation, since it seems as though the only way to win a girl in an event is to pay.  Look, I realize devs gotta eat.  But PTW is no good for anyone.  If you don't pay, you lose, but if you do, you come away with the feeling that that's the only reason you won.  It's a bummer, too, as my read on it from the original announcements was that this was going to be something more like a new currency system, in which the shards we won could be put into the girl of our choice.

[Chthugha]

21 minutes ago, EdMuse said:

I don't have much to post in the way of statistics, but I can say that I haven't gotten one single girl under the new system.  Not one.  Not even close, in fact.  For instance, I've almost leveled Karole up to level 280, so that's 150 levels at ten battles per level = 1500 battles with her.  In all of those battles, I have earned a total of 54 shards for her girls, 25 for one and 29 for the other.  That would suggest that in plain ol' routine play, it will take nearly 12,000 to win those two girls. For Fabienne, dumping all of my combativity points for the entire duration of her event into winning her, I got 33 shards.  Figuring she may return once per year, it looks as though it will take over three years to win her.

That is a total of 1500 battles; yes.

A total of 1500 battles with the shard system: no.

Karole was released quite a while before the shard system. 12th of February the shard system was introduced. That is now 20 days ago. You battled a full 4 days for Fabienne and 3 days so far for the Easter Feast event. That leaves 13 days. You have 48 battles a day, so that would leave a total of 13x48=624 battles. You need approximately 4x as many shards as you have now. That would mean about 4x as many battles, leading to about 2500 battles in total. I have absolutely no idea how you came to 12000 battles... but with maths like this it is no wonder that people do not like the system 😂

[EdMuse]

1 hour ago, Chthugha said:

That is a total of 1500 battles; yes.

A total of 1500 battles with the shard system: no.

Karole was released quite a while before the shard system. 12th of February the shard system was introduced. That is now 20 days ago. You battled a full 4 days for Fabienne and 3 days so far for the Easter Feast event. That leaves 13 days. You have 48 battles a day, so that would leave a total of 13x48=624 battles. You need approximately 4x as many shards as you have now. That would mean about 4x as many battles, leading to about 2500 battles in total. I have absolutely no idea how you came to 12000 battles... but with maths like this it is no wonder that people do not like the system 😂

Point taken.  I wasn't taking into account that Karole was released before the shard system, so that figure of 12,000 battles was based on the inaccurate number of 1500 so far.  I took that as x4 to get either of the girls, so x8 to get both, though after reading your post (as well as sufficient caffeine) I see that as being inaccurate, as well.

What is accurate, though is the number 0, i.e. the number of girls I've gotten under the new system.  I'd suggest that that's the reason people don't like it.

[pitythefool]

I see edmuse is lvl 325, but there's no guarantee he had loving bunny/lupa, val abrael/red battler either so those could possibly detract from his attack totals as well. Also if he didn't have the girls from the event when attraction was implemented that's potentially -48 as well toward his karole totals.

Honestly the games only p2w if you are gambling on epic pachinko or very impatient. As a free player (minus monthly card recently just because 50-60-70+ girls are annoying to collect cash on), I have no problems earning enough kobans to sustain my play which consists of ignoring pachinko girls and getting all event boss girls. I mean really you only need kobans for strategic moves like a refill for a contest, or to move up in league, either way it generally nets you (more) kobans. Aside from that your koban supply should basically grow from dailies etc and only go down when you need to buy refills to get boss event girls which isn't that often.

I'm sure my focus will shift as I keep leveling up and accumulating girls, but with that said there is some level of common sense in keeping a reserve of kobans. Not sure why or how you passed up on fabienne. The first day of legendary days had the 35% off refill discount. Even at the end, had your semi poor luck continued you probably would have needed like 15-20 refills to finish (3240-4320 kobans not discounted), still cheaper than a x10 pachinko roll.

My point is, even if we have to spend some kobans to get girls now, it seeeeeeems like it's at a rate that's sustainable - where if you just play the game daily and build up some reserves you won't ever have to P2W, just play to win.  

Also you have only had the opportunity to get 3 new girls under the current system and 4 revivals. 2 of the new girls are in the current event and you probably won't obtain your first one for another 2-3 days, however you should get both for free. That's what the math indicates. The math for fabienne or any 5 star legendary girl going forward never worked out unfortunately unless you were going to spend kobans or get the lucky 100 attraction jackpot. 

 

Edited March 3, 2019 by pitythefool

[EdMuse]

52 minutes ago, pitythefool said:

I see edmuse is lvl 325, but there's no guarantee he had loving bunny/lupa, val abrael/red battler either so those could possibly detract from his attack totals as well. Also if he didn't have the girls from the event when attraction was implemented that's potentially -48 as well toward his karole totals.

My point is, even if we have to spend some kobans to get girls now, it seeeeeeems like it's at a rate that's sustainable - where if you just play the game daily and build up some reserves you won't ever have to P2W, just play to win.  

Also you have only had the opportunity to get 3 new girls under the current system and 4 revivals. 2 of the new girls are in the current event and you probably won't obtain your first one for another 2-3 days, however you should get both for free. That's what the math indicates. The math for fabienne or any 5 star legendary girl going forward never worked out unfortunately unless you were going to spend kobans or get the lucky 100 attraction jackpot. 

Wait...what, now?  I do have Loving Bunny/Lupa, as well as Val Abrael and Val Red Battler, but I'm afraid I don't know what the consideration is, there.  Do they do something to up my likelihood of shard drops?  I always focus on one girl at a time, so if you're just suggesting that spreading my shards around would decrease the probability of winning any one girl, that's not the case, here.

Personally, I tend to save my kobans for 10x epic pachinko due to the 100% drop rate for a girl.  I suppose I could dump them into combativity refills, but at between about 150 and 250 coming in from daily activities, that's a fairly tall order.  That's where my PTW reference came from: the idea that beyond daily activities, the only way I know of to get more kobans for combativity refills would be to buy them. 

BTW, I do anticipate winning Carine in the current event, as I currently have 50 shards toward her.  I may also be able to win Marie after that, but it will be pretty tight.  Maybe if I can do that, I'll feel better about this system.  Currently, though, I'm a little bummed about the fact that I haven't gotten a legendary girl in I can't remember how long -- Fanny and Fione was the last one(s) I got, so not even coming close to having a shot at Fabienne was a real bummer.

BTW2, are you including Val Mala in your numbers of girls we've had the opportunity to get under the new system?  Got 17 shards toward her, with no expectation of more for until next February, at least.

[kairax]

x10 hasn't done a thing either.  3 x10 in a row for nothing but money, and since shards have been added, I have yet to see anything above a 5.  it's pretty much always 1-3, so the idea even it can go into double digits is like fantasy land, moreso since you've only gotten it in a test server.  you've also agreed that yes girls are harder to get, which kinkoid said wasn't supposed to happen, it was supposed to basically be the same sort of effort but with the ability to 'save progress' if you didn't get the girl in time.  so we're still left with the exact same problem that only further enforces the entire point and message of the post: the shard system is still broken

since the last time i've posted, another ~100 runs down for 10 shards...and it doesn't sound like i'm the only one with just "bad rng".  the shard drop rate is just too horrifically low for this to be a system worth keeping.  the old system sadly still feels vastly superior to a system that wants you to take years to get girls, instead of trying for events

[pitythefool]

3 hours ago, EdMuse said:

Wait...what, now?  I do have Loving Bunny/Lupa, as well as Val Abrael and Val Red Battler, but I'm afraid I don't know what the consideration is, there.  Do they do something to up my likelihood of shard drops?  I always focus on one girl at a time, so if you're just suggesting that spreading my shards around would decrease the probability of winning any one girl, that's not the case, here.

I was pretty tired after pulling an all nighter, but essentially I was just tossing out extra considerations on top of what Chthugha had been suggesting in terms of total attacks you've performed on karole since the change and corresponding shard amounts. Cause honestly I would have expected karole to be in line with legendary girls cause they both have the 1-3 rate, so ~500 attacks per girl would roughly be the median at an assumed 10% shard acquisition rate. So three girls on karole would take roughly 1500 attacks to get.

 

Anyway I'll respond to the rest in a bit, including Kairax.

Edited March 4, 2019 by pitythefool

[EdMuse]

15 hours ago, pitythefool said:

I was pretty tired after pulling an all nighter, but essentially I was just tossing out extra considerations on top of what Chthugha had been suggesting in terms of total attacks you've performed on karole since the change and corresponding shard amounts. Cause honestly I would have expected karole to be in line with legendary girls cause they both have the 1-3 rate, so ~500 attacks per girl would roughly be the median at an assumed 10% shard acquisition rate. So three girls on karole would take roughly 1500 attacks to get.

Got it, thanks.  I appreciate the response, because a couple of things have been buzzing around in my headbone since yesterday...

From Cthungha's calculation that I've had about 624 battles with Karole since the institution of the new system, and the fact that I've gotten 54 shards toward her girls, that works out to a drop rage of 8.5% per shard, or 11.55 battles per shard (not per shard drop, but per individual shard).  If that pattern holds, it will take 2311 battles to win both girls -- right in line with Cthugha's calculation, and even a little lower.  Still, at an average of 1156 battles per girl (interestingly, this number can only be taken in the abstract, since with a regular episode boss, we're always battling for multiple girls simultaneously), it's more than twice the number of battles per girl you figured on for legendary girls.  One interesting thing, too, is that the more battles fought, the larger the sample size for the statistical calculation.  So having these numbers in place, it shouldn't be hard to see later on if I'm just having bad luck, or if this is a realistic representation of the new drop rates.

It occurs to me, too, that while Cthungha's point about the new system going live after Karole was introduced makes sense from the standpoint of statistical analysis, I did still do over 800 battles with her before that.  So if we can talk in somewhat more vague and subjective terms, it's still a fact that I've battled her nearly 1500 times without winning one of her girls.  In fact, taking into account that she was already in place before the new system gives the impression that those earlier battles were all for naught.  Yes, of course I realize that I was collecting other rewards for each battle, but as I've read on other threads, those rewards are less valuable than the cash that she isn't dropping, which could be used to buy the same rewards.  Personally, I'd rather not think about that level of distinction between rewards, since hey, I can get way more books per day than the 24 I would be able to purchase with cash, so that's cool.  But if we're focusing on battling for girls, here, that means there were over 800 battles I fought with her where the effective drop rate was...well...zero.  This, of course, is what people on these boards are complaining about to do with the Valentine's Day event, and the new system going live only three days before the end of it (thus, the 17 shards I have toward Val Mala).  In either case, you can't say, "But I lost all that progress toward a girl!" since there was no real "progress" under the old system, just a per-battle probability.  But perhaps if the introduction of the new system had been better timed, so that it came out at the beginning of an episode and between events, there would have been fewer complaints.

One thing, though, that I'm curious about is the idea that you put forward that spending kobans on combativity refills is sustainable based on the regular kobans earned per day.  Looking at Cthungha's stats posted above, the average number of kobans per day from an event is 87.  Adding in the regular income from finishing all missions, that's a total of 237 average per day during events, and the regular 150 between events.  A full combativity refill costs 216 kobans, so with no kobans spent on anything else, during an event, that would allow for only one refill per day.  That, for instance, wouldn't have done the trick for me with Fabienne, as the number of shards I have toward her shows I would have needed four refills per day to win her.  So I've been wondering, now, if there's some other source of kobans that I've been missing out on.  Kobans only come from daily activities, with the occasional addition of tower rewards, right?

[Lhans]

24 minutes ago, EdMuse said:

Still, at an average of 1156 battles per girl...

Dang, and I thought I had it rough. It took me about 2667 fights to get all 3 of Karole's girls which equates to 889 fights a girl. I got my first girl though at around fight 2250ish.

[pitythefool]

On 3/4/2019 at 8:56 AM, EdMuse said:

One thing, though, that I'm curious about is the idea that you put forward that spending kobans on combativity refills is sustainable based on the regular kobans earned per day.  Looking at Cthungha's stats posted above, the average number of kobans per day from an event is 87.  Adding in the regular income from finishing all missions, that's a total of 237 average per day during events, and the regular 150 between events.  A full combativity refill costs 216 kobans, so with no kobans spent on anything else, during an event, that would allow for only one refill per day.  That, for instance, wouldn't have done the trick for me with Fabienne, as the number of shards I have toward her shows I would have needed four refills per day to win her.  So I've been wondering, now, if there's some other source of kobans that I've been missing out on.  Kobans only come from daily activities, with the occasional addition of tower rewards, right?

Well, I had kind of assumed you and most others maintain a koban supply stash for a rainy day. I try to not let my kobans drop below 4-5k. Right now I'm back up to 9k. If you don't this event is a great opportunity to start building that stash.

As far as every place where you can get kobans...  

Parenthesis indicate guesstimated monthly amount.

Daily missions - 150 daily (4500)

Classic events - 81 daily (972)

Weekly contests - 400-700 <--Weekly for me (1600-2800 monthly?) Varies by level and length of contests. Most possible would be 9 a week, average would probably be 6-7. I'm lvl 217, I get 126 for first place, 66 for 2-4th. I almost always win or place top 4 at a minimum. So for me in particular that's easily 600+ a week, but lets call it 400-700.

Tower of Fame - 72 (288) - 3 categories pay 24 kobans even for worst finishes.

League - Varies by person, for me personally, I could make (1960) every month, however with the recent changes to boosters, i don't know how lucrative league will be any more. You'll have to buy boosters and then buy refills to take advantage of the 24 hour window unless you just plan to keep using boosters throughout the week or whatever, but that is still 60 kobans a booster so ugh.

Anyway I think that's about it. Aside from twitter/forum contests, there's no other way to get free kobans.

Now if you want to spend a little money, monthly card is 1800 kobans for 3 bucks 

[pitythefool]

On 3/4/2019 at 8:56 AM, EdMuse said:

Got it, thanks.  I appreciate the response, because a couple of things have been buzzing around in my headbone since yesterday...

From Cthungha's calculation that I've had about 624 battles with Karole since the institution of the new system, and the fact that I've gotten 54 shards toward her girls, that works out to a drop rage of 8.5% per shard, or 11.55 battles per shard (not per shard drop, but per individual shard).  If that pattern holds, it will take 2311 battles to win both girls -- right in line with Cthugha's calculation, and even a little lower.  Still, at an average of 1156 battles per girl (interestingly, this number can only be taken in the abstract, since with a regular episode boss, we're always battling for multiple girls simultaneously), it's more than twice the number of battles per girl you figured on for legendary girls.  One interesting thing, too, is that the more battles fought, the larger the sample size for the statistical calculation.  So having these numbers in place, it shouldn't be hard to see later on if I'm just having bad luck, or if this is a realistic representation of the new drop rates.

It occurs to me, too, that while Cthungha's point about the new system going live after Karole was introduced makes sense from the standpoint of statistical analysis, I did still do over 800 battles with her before that.  So if we can talk in somewhat more vague and subjective terms, it's still a fact that I've battled her nearly 1500 times without winning one of her girls.  In fact, taking into account that she was already in place before the new system gives the impression that those earlier battles were all for naught.  Yes, of course I realize that I was collecting other rewards for each battle, but as I've read on other threads, those rewards are less valuable than the cash that she isn't dropping, which could be used to buy the same rewards.  Personally, I'd rather not think about that level of distinction between rewards, since hey, I can get way more books per day than the 24 I would be able to purchase with cash, so that's cool.  But if we're focusing on battling for girls, here, that means there were over 800 battles I fought with her where the effective drop rate was...well...zero.  This, of course, is what people on these boards are complaining about to do with the Valentine's Day event, and the new system going live only three days before the end of it (thus, the 17 shards I have toward Val Mala).  In either case, you can't say, "But I lost all that progress toward a girl!" since there was no real "progress" under the old system, just a per-battle probability.  But perhaps if the introduction of the new system had been better timed, so that it came out at the beginning of an episode and between events, there would have been fewer complaints.

And yeah all your previous progress has been lost in terms of attacks after they switched to the attraction system. I was a bit bummed out about that stuff too, because frankly, most new people under the new system, at least with later bosses will end up getting all 3 girls by the time they're done with the zone and won't need to return like some of us

Well, unless the shard rate varies on later bosses, I felt like I had a pretty good sample run on Edwarda right after the attraction system was released. Made a test account and went to Edwarda, then recorded everything. She is a 1-7 shard boss, which means 4 average. Meaning 100/4 = 25, so 25 shard events at a 4 average should get you a girl. Assuming that 10% rate, that means roughly 250 attacks for 1 girl.  With Val Abrael (~154 estimated attack girl)  + the 3 boss girls, numbers ended up at 98/775. Val Abrael was had after 175 attacks (159 if you remove regular boss girl shard events that occurred during that span). The overall shard rate was like 12.64%, but if I tossed her numbers (she had 19 shard events) because she had a different attraction value of 1-12 that drops the overall numbers to 79/756 for just the 3 boss girls which is 10.4% and a 3.8 shard average.

My thoughts on Karole are - I'm still at hero university, but she really should be mimicking the legendary girl drop rate unless her stuff has been tweaked to be lower. Cause with 1-3 shard drops, you should be averaging closer to 2, which would put ya closer to that 5-600 attacks per girl mark. Honestly I pretty much expect acquiring her girls to take somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500 +/- 300. 

As for Val Mala and stuff, they either should have implemented the system earlier or a day later. I managed to snag her a day or two before the change, but yeah I feel you.