Shadow-Six

Didn't get her, and did get some refills. Around 5, I think, can't remember exactly.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is what we call an "internet temper tantrum". It's usually done when someone so completely and utterly loses an argument online, that they lash out in much the same way a child does when the child doesn't get his or her way. At this point, the only proper response is to sit back and laugh at the feeble attempts to sound tough and how "strong" their arguments are, despite being nothing but 100% pure made-up BS. When you attempt to argue against facts, you're going to find that they are rather stubborn things. Spewing a bunch of emotional drivel does your arguments no good. If anything, they just show how truly empty those arguments are.

Well, I just got a boss girl. Started at level 96 with Finalmecia, she's now at level 153, with 4 battles on her (including the one that got me the drop). More data for those who want to crunch the numbers. (Level 172 with now 49 girls, I also got Loving Arcana this morning before the battles that dropped the girl)

Money isn't debatable. It's been proven time and time again that you earn significantly less now than before. The only time you get close is with maxed level Finalmecia, and even then you still lose 7k per hour.

Look through this thread and the Patch Notes thread, the evidence posted by myself and others show that math that proves you are making less money. In fact, I even posted the math the proves that even at the maximum level of the final boss, you are still making less money per hour when compared to the old system. The moment the patch went live, everyone lost half of their combat points, and the reload timer immediately changed to 30 minutes as well as the boss battles only requiring one point, so I have no idea what you are talking about here. A single patch doesn't get applied in steps, it gets applied all at once. There was no transition period. ...You're not very good at math, are you? Because what you said completely contradicts itself. Decreasing the reload timer, means more battles take place. Decreasing the energy available means fewer the battles take place. If you want more battles, decrease the timer and/or increase the energy available. If you want less battles, the increase the timer and/or decrease the energy available. The old system allowed for a maximum of 72 battles to take place per 24 hours (whether you got that many depended on your choices). The new system allows for a maximum of 48 battles to take place in a 24 hour period. Also, more payouts does not necessarily mean that you will make more. That all depends on how much each reward is. I can win 5 bucks every ten minutes, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make more than winning 55 bucks every hour. The dev team admitted that this was intentional. They just "forgot" to put it in the patch notes, and then "forgot" that they could edit the notes after the orginal post went up.

Remember, back in the patch notes thread, when I hyperbolically put in the line that this feels like an attempt to "instill a sense of pride and accomplishment"? Yeah, it no longer feels that way. If this change goes through, it will be an attempt to "instill a sense of pride and accomplishment". They are going full-on EA. You never want to go EA, much less full-on EA. Whelp, been fun all, but I think we can officially say that these changes are the death knell for this game.

This, I think, would be the best long-term fix. That girl-drop counter would be a bitch and a half to code, test, and debug (but this is coming from someone who knows enough about programming and coding to be dangerous, so take it worth a grain of salt), but I think we'd all agree that if that fix was in the pipeline, we'd be willing to wait for it. The more immediate fix to the PvP needs to be rewards being buffed and battling people closer to your ability.

I do agree, with pretty much all you said, Sluimerstand, but one major points of contention. This has already been proven to be a net loss on income. Only way to actually make more money (without paying for a lot of reloads) when compared to the old system is to stop playing. That way you stop your losses. At no time does the new system actually gain ground when compared to the old system. Running the numbers shows (using my experience with Finalmecia as the base, she started at 96 for me) from about a 10k loss per battle and about a 40k loss per hour, to a projected gain of 6k per battle but still a projected loss of 7k per hour (projection is based on the acknowledged boss reward calculation of bossLevel * 100 + 500). There is no point in which the new system breaks even with the old, even years down the road. The only people who argue that the changes at max level actually produce more income failed to go beyond the reward per battle (in which case, they are right; 26.5k is greater than 20k) by acknowledging the hourly and daily rates which debunk their claims. Again, other than that, I agree. While I do think this is starting to fall into P2W mechanics, especially given that imho the Premium currency's value has gone down (this is a point that can easily be debated much like any investment/currency trading activity, which is what a Premium Game currency is), but this could be a case of "once bitten, twice shy" in which I'm just being hypersensitive to the issue. However, given the lack of communication from the Dev, I'm starting to feel as if we are yelling into the wind and the claim of P2W intention instead of the original claim of "we want more combats" is actually true.

No it won't. Already ran the numbers on this and it doesn't get better. See below for an explanation: Just in case you didn't know (due to the below), Finalmecia used to reward an average of 20/21k per fight (according to my experience, the range was from the upper 18k's to the lower 23k's). And a TL;DR for the quote: There is no point in which you will earn more money due to the changes. None. You might make more per battle, but the massive reduction in the number of battles ensures that it will never be more than what you have lost. Quite a bit, as you're not at endgame yet. The endgame is all but halted as far as progression goes. When it costs several million to upgrade the girls (in both affection items [each girl has affection numbers in the thousands, and the really useful items cost from 104k to 391k, that I've seen thus far] and the actual cost to upgrade [I've got one waiting at over 6 million and another at just over 8 million, that I'm "trying" to save up for, however new girls take priority as 147 per 11 minutes doesn't help me much in trying to save up), the loss of in-game cash really fucking hurts. I do agree that not all of the changes are bad. I like the idea of leveled bosses, and given the reward for Arena, that shit should have been free a long-ass time ago. However, the massive increase to the combat reload timer and ungodly massive nerf to boss rewards (still getting less than 50% of Finalmecia's old rewards) outweigh all of the positive changes by a ton and a half.

Which is why it gets the lowly 0/8 ratting in the troll-bait meter (tm). It was too obvious and needed more "irreverent effort" (tm), but at least it was original in that it was just a straight up claim without trying to support it with the debunked "Less battles, more money claim".

I r8 0 outta 8, bad b8 m8.

Yeah, I'm getting that feeling too. EA tried that and lost 3 billion USD, but that was with a AAA game title and with the Star Wars brand. It's unlikely to happen here. However, I detest any firm that treats its consumers and customers like that. I'll stick around for a while to see how things go, but all monetary contributions I had planned (if I enjoy a F2P game that has MTX, I'll buy a few just to reward the devs' hard work every so often) are firmly on hold. If they keep down this path, I hope they are prepared for the massive wave of negative WOM advertising that will happen along side the vast majority of the player base to leaving.

Do I really need to show this math again? The Breakeven date for this change is several months, if not years, out for the players doesn't exist when compared to the old system (and that's not counting the loss in earnings from having to level the other bosses for events when you earn even less from that grind). The math does not support your argument. This point of yours has been completely, utterly, and thoroughly debunked in every single way, shape, and form. Let it die and find a new argument to make.

Did you do a Cost-Benefit analysis from a consumer's point of view in regards to these changes for all playstyles (PvE-only, PvP-only, and PvE-PvP mix)? No offense is intended when I say that I don't think you have (a common issue when a game's dev, who in general isn't a business-focused person, is also in charge of the game's business aspects), as that analysis would show you exactly why these changes are being seeing as straight-up negative, at least by those who favor PvE activities. While I don't have access to all of the numbers, I can run a quick notes-on-a-napkin (due to not having the numbers that run behind the scenes) one for a PvE-only, and make extrapolations for a PvP-only and mix analysis later today, pro bono. RL is taking over, so I can't dedicate the effort required right now. However, on my cursory experiences this morning, I can give you the three major issues that I think would be proved from the analysis: Premium currency is now heavily favored over free (so much so that it's not blatant, whether intended or not, and that is usually a death knell for any game with a premium currency), PvE activity rewards have received a massive nerf for those that have not maxed-out the boss levels (and even then, it's still an arguable nerf), and PvP activity rewards are still way too low.