EpicBacon
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Posts posted by EpicBacon
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1 hour ago, CulturedCrow said:
If you keep Finish Move 12% or lower, then Defeat Medication is still a worthwhile heal, albeit one that triggers less frequently. But it is a sad state of affairs to see the former best relic fall so far. I would choose FM over DM every day of the week if they remain incompatible.
It used to work with Finish move before the update.
1 hour ago, Horsting said:Please some mod forward this to KK: Two of the best relics breaking each other really a problem.
I've forwarded this as far as I am capable.
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17 hours ago, CulturedCrow said:
I don't know if it's just me or whether others have already noticed this, but when the Finish Her relic defeats an opponent, Defeat Medication doesn't proc. It seems like it only works when your attack damage causes the KO. I saw this happen multiple times today.
It kinda makes sense, but it's also unfortunate if that's the intended function. It's called Defeat Medication, not Attack KO Medication, so you would think it would give credit no matter what skill/method caused the defeat.
I can confirm this. Happened to me in todays normal run.
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Did an easy run, so I could grab as many relics as possible to test, without worrying about grabbing the "best" relics. Was not offered a great selection tho, but got some information.
Vigorous Motivation
It is no longer show in the responce, it has been changed back to be a hidden value, it still gives you the damage, but you have to calculate it yourself, and it is no longer added to the "damage" number.
No longer gives you a turn by turn damage buff, it is still really good as it multiplies your final damage value, after all other sources of damage are added. I can also confirm that it is not added when your girls go below 50% ego. I have not tested "berserk" but I will assume it will work the same way.
Protection Assist
Now only target your girls, I was offered one early on, and grabbed a second one later in the labyrinth. With the reduced damage, this one is actually not too bad, and if you get two of them, and enters a battle with 1 girl, they also stack.
Curse
With the updated damage formula, they now work, and if you get more then one, they both work independently of each other, they can also hit the same girl, and if that happens, the effect stacks.
Here is an example where 1 girl is hit with two curses.
And here is an example where two different girls in the same battle is cursed.
Critical Thinking (global)
Grabbed a 40% critical thinking relic, and it did give me increased critical hit damage. I was receiving slightly more then 40%, my tests had me at 42.5% to 55% extra critical damage, I am not sure what causes the extra damage, there might be some relic interactions going on, but nevertheless, Critical thinking (global) is now working
Here is an example, where I seem to be getting 2700-2800 more damage then I am supposed to. This example also have a curse interaction, that gave me some weird numbers before I figured out what was going on.
Here is a sample from another fight, I have about 8.000 more damage then the calculations say. 2nd fight gave some weird number, not sure what happened there, 5th round was against a shielded girl, and the last three rounds here are against a cursed girl.
Critical Thinking (target)
And now for the bugged relic, I picked up a 20% target critical hit increase, and it did not give me the correct numbers. I've tested these relics before, and with the update the damage has changed from 8 to 4.
I cannot speak for the other rarities, I was not offered another target one, and even if I did, since I picked up a global critical damage increase, it would make it really hard to get accurate data on them.
The Critical Thinking (target) has been reported, and will be looked at.-
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46 minutes ago, Horsting said:
I wasn't expecting that I am ever going to say this in regards to bug fixing and Labyrinth: Well done KK!
I am doing my run atm, and I am checking as many relics as I can, Critical thinking (target) is still bugged, and does not give correct damage, this has been reported and had been passed on to the team. I will make a full report of all my findings when my run is complete.
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Would have been a lot more interesting if they incorporated the avatar paper doll with the hero equipment itself, I would love to have my character in a full "dragon" set
Edit:
Jacket changed from red to green for me.
Pants also a lighter color
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Interesting, I think my first run will be done on easy mode, to try to look at as many of the fixed relics as possible, without having to think about playing efficiently and picking "better" relics
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2 hours ago, bolitho76 said:
If you only compare hard and easy mode your calculation is correct, but you have to include the normal mode too in my eyes.
After normal mode give you aditional 1092 coins and you can run the normal mode without using a heartstone (at least I can do this mostly at test and I have to use there some 3* girls and some not maxed 5* girls so I expect better results at main with my way bigger amount of 5*/6* Girls) so you should calculate the profit not from the 2184 coins, you should use the 3276 coins from the normal mode - so:0 tokens used - 1528 coins profit
1 tokens used - 688 coins profit
2 tokens used - 152 coins lost
that is a good point, I have no experience with the hard or normal mode, as I don't have any test server account, and even If i created one, there would be a substantional amount of time before I would be able to do any meaningful labyrinth testing.
That is why I used easy mode, as it is what I am familiar with, and the amount of coins on hard mode.
The main question would be how much harder is hard compared to normal, as in how earlier in the run would one need to use the first token to proceed with the run. Now since the increase from easy to normal is 1092 coins, one could still use one token on normal mode and be in profit by 242 coins.
There would probably also be a middleground, that if one are stronger then normal mode, but not powerful enough to complete hard, one could make it to the later floors and hope for a good floor layout where one could grab as many coins before running out of girls, and then just cut the losses.-
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8 hours ago, Horsting said:
That's actually a good point: If hard difficulty gives as many more coins as needed to buy at least 1 rejuvenation stone, it still makes sense. I have 12 stones from the various free gifts and even tracks, so will just try hard one time, and see how many stones I need. I just feat that I have way to few girls on level 750 to have a benefit from hard difficulty. Sadly the opponents scale with hero level, not with your harem level, or both.
Since the max coins you can get from easy is 2184 (base, not considering cards)
And the hard mode is supposed to give 120% extra coins, then 2184*1.2 = 2620.
The number is actually 2620.8, but just going to use 2620 here, as I don't know how coins are rounded.
So if we want to get a profit doing hard mode, we need to spend less then 2620 coins.
Each refill tokens costs 850 coins in the labyrinth shop.
0 tokens used - 2620 coins profit
1 tokens used - 1770 coins profit
2 tokens used - 920 coins profit
3 tokens used - 70 coins profit
Anything past 3 tokens will be a net loss, and one could say the 3 token run would not be worth the time investment.
The reason that I am using the 120% number is that you'll be getting the base amount for doing easy mode either way, I am only looking at the additional coins for hard mode.
There is actually an argument here that if your cannot complete the first three floors on hard mode, that is if they are harder then on easy, then you'll be getting a net loss just by choosing hard over easy.-
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19 minutes ago, jelom said:
10. All girls Critical damage %
Currently has no effect, this has been forwarded to KK, and is supposedly going to be looked into tomorrow
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5 minutes ago, Der DinX said:
And than I think there was this tiny little issue with it hitting any girl it wants, instead of only the opponent, wasn't it? 🤔
Or is it just because there is so much damage, that is has to go somewhere, and sometimes you just get in the way? 😵
Curse only targets opponents; In my testing, I had 17 instances of using berserk in 1 labyrinth run, and in all of the battles, they allways hit the opponent. It would actually be beneficial IF it could hit both, as then you could get some really strong tanks, taking half damage
The relic you are thinking of is the "protection assist" that shields a girl for a % of her total ego before battle starts, that one is supposedly fixed on test now, and should only protect your team.-
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4 minutes ago, Horsting said:
Yeah right, as it changes this factor to 1.x, higher than 1 but lower than 2. EDIT: Or errm wait, how was "Curse" exactly broken again? I tend to loose the overview 😄.
Curse removes the x2 damage after subtracting defence. And then correctly adds the extra damage from any source.
If the 2x damage is not supposed to be there, then the formula should be working correctly.
@madahmed was the one who figured out curse, and I was later able to confirm his findings.-
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9 minutes ago, Horsting said:
Broken relics and broken class stats have been recognised earlier, when it was on test server, as well as that the damage is generally doubled, i.e. that 1 AP gives ~2 damage (+bonuses) and 1 defence reduces ~2 damage. And indeed when they pushed the first "balance" change to the test server, I suggested to fix bugs instead, and Rosso said on Discord that he reads the forum thread and that it is an "interesting discussion" there. However, now things are finally moving. Let's just hope/try to push it so that really everything is fixed, not just this minor list in Luna's post.
yeah, I think the protective bubble was really early, on, this link was the first reference to the damage formula that I could find in the post, meaning the double damage was known and reported on this forum atleast as early as dec9, but only now did they realize that its double. I guess this also means that "Curse" is actually not broken, just everything else is
In my runs going forward, I'll try to grab as many critical increase relics as I can, use the harmony formula, and see if I can see any increased critical rate.-
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37 minutes ago, mdnoria said:
What a joke.
Most broken relics were reported while the labyrinth wasn't even live if I remember well but it was ignored for nearly 3 months.
We said that the system should be evaluated after the relic bugs were fixed but instead they tinkered with the difficulty and called it a day.
And now, they are telling us that fixing the bugs put the balance in shambles.
I just looked thru this thread, the first mention of the damage formula that i could find is by @Horsting december 9th.
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9 hours ago, Horsting said:
Didn't someone create a table/spreadsheet which contains all relics in all rarities? I want to make a new harmony vs crit chance table, comparing those two. Legendary crit chance is +5%, legendary harmony for midline and a single girl are both +16% from what I saw in older posts, but what is global harmony? And there is no crit chance relic for line or single girl, right?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rdqShf9G3FQ0P_cOWh8e8r3Ylb-MDK_VdIwCXfvlwiw/edit#gid=0
Global crit is ; 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6
Global harmony is 3, 4, 6, 8 and 10
Midline and Target harmony is : 6, 8, 12, 16 and 20
I've visually confirmed all relics in the spreadsheet-
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Equipment pachinco, 2games 1000 orbs update
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2 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:
The main takeaway seems to be that it's more or less the same as we're already used to everywhere else? Just like the Orange element's +7% bonus to your actual crit chance makes the Purple element's +7% bonus to your harmony look bad, relics you get in the Labyrinth that say "crit chance" put the ones that say "harmony" to shame.
TL;DR: Crit chance, good. Harmony, bad.
I've not done anything with numbers outside of labyrinth, but I ran the formula by @Horsting, and I believe he said it was the same, It would make a lot of sense. Even the champion formula is the same, but with 50% crit ceiling instead of 30%
Ah yeah, I completely forgot about the synergy bonuses, harmony looks really bad, yeah.10 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:Thanks a lot for looking deep into this. Much appreciated.
Technically I didn't do anything, this was all information provided by KK. As mentioned before, these relics would be very hard to test, due to the amount of datapoints needed. And consequently I cannot actually confirm if the relic that adds critical chance work or not. The harmony on the other hand are added in the responce, so those seems good.
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There has been quite a bit of speculation about harmony, what it actually does in the labyrinth.
KK has provided us with some information about both harmony and the "critical expectation" relic.
Let's quickly do the "critical expectation" relic first, it adds flat critical chance based on the rarity of the relic, after the harmony calculations is done. I will talk about the harmony in just a bit, but basically, if the relics says +5% critical rate, that is what you should be getting.
Let's go over the harmony now. Harmony is as we assumed tied to critical rate in the labyrinth.
It is using the following formula.
30% * Harmony / (Harmony + OpponentHarmony)Critical from harmony is capped at 30%, and the critical chances depends on your harmony vs the opponents harmony. This means that if you both have the same amount of harmony, you both have a 15% critical hit chance, and increasing the harmony above the opponents harmony increases your critical chance, and lowers their chance at the same time.
This works both ways, so if you have lower harmony then your opponent, they will have a higher critical chance then you.
In order to go from 15% to 20% critical rate, you need to double your harmony vs your opponent. This makes Harmony kind of a terrible investment, the amount you need is just too much.
@Horsting made this sexy table here, to easily visualize the harmony relations and just how much is needed to get significant critical increases, as I had never looked into harmony before, this was a great help to me.
This table is using 100.000 as an example, of cource this value would vary over a run, like most my girls are around the 190.000 range base.Going back to the table, lets use the example here, with 100.000 harmony. If you get a mythic harmony relic for +10% harmony to all girls. you'll go from 100.000 harmony to 110.000 harmony. And your critical chance would change from 15% to... 15.71% That's not great.
For critical increase its much better to just crab a Critical expectation relic, the one I mentioned at the start of this post. The critical expectation relic is added to the final harmony number, if we use the previous example of 15.71% crit, a +5% "critical expectation" relic will be added, making the final number be 15.71+5 = 20.71% critical chance
TL;DR:
Harmony is still not a great investment, even with several high rarity relics you are looking at 2-3% at most. But atleast its not hurting you. If you want critical chance, get the "Critical expectation" relics instead.-
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6 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:
Funny that, I hadn't noticed when looking at them individually, but all three girls who aren't the drummer are playing bass. Three basses and no guitar? That's quite the experimental band right there! ^^
They wanted to play baseball... but didnt have the equipment... so instead they went with the basses loaded?
That one... needs more work...-
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Its actually interesting how quicker my labyrinth runs go when I don't need to think about ajax responces and compare data all the time, this run I was only checking for how many stuns my yellow girl got off, and I could easily do that on 2x speed.
The relic I am looking for right now is the mythical "Critical Thinking (Target)" for 100% extra critical damage (target girl)
Here is the results for the common(20%), rare(40%), epic(60%) and legendary(80%) versions, data from several runs.
As you can see, they don't give you the percent increase advertised, but instead just a flat number. A really really low flat number compared to what you should be getting. Needless to say; this is practically worthless.
Previous tests of this relic seems to indicate that "Critical Thinking (target)" seems to work if you combine it with a regular "critical thinking" but then you are using two relics to get the effect of one. I might get back to testing that when and if I get the data for the mythic relic first.-
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I had not seen this thread until now, this was a very cool read. Seeing the changes and updates over a longer period of time.
Hats off to you sir (or madam)-
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50 minutes ago, mdnoria said:
Today I lost 3 full teams in the 1st floor on the live server (on easy, 2 full teams before the 1st floor boss). I suspect some things have been merged/pushed to prod that are not documented.
I finished my run with 17 girls alive.
KK went over the data, and said they could find no changes, and same player performance aswell.
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1 hour ago, jelom said:
- Normal: 4 floors 140 girls. harder opponents are very strong, but medium ones don't give you problems. bosses stronger, specially in 3rd and 4th floor, you will lose one team in 2nd boss, 2-3 in 3rd boss and 4-5 teams in the 4th boss. don't attack with your best team until their teams are weakened and lose 2-3 girls. Most players should be able to complete this difficulty.
I have 96 girls at level 750, I need to put some more xp into my girls
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6 hours ago, Der DinX said:
And here are again the two major mistakes we need to avoid.
Assuming there is any kind of logic, and of course we all know, what makes sense to us doesn't necessarily have to be the same on KK side.😁I did not consider this point, you are right, assumption is a dangerous thing.
6 hours ago, Der DinX said:But a very big thX for all the testing
There has been lots of testing done by many people up to this point, and that has led us to where we are now. So while reading thru this thread can make it look like only a few people figured it all out, there are many others who are not as vocal that have contributed and/or confirmed findings.
6 hours ago, Der DinX said:and at least it is good to see, that some relics indeed do something, maybe even what they are intended to do.
There are actually not that many broken relics, its just that when they are broken they are really broken, some are only slightly broken. Maybe someone who is good at writeups should make a full overview of all the relics and their status. If someone volunteer, I can pass some notes along.
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New Feature: The Labyrinth - Started December 6th 2023 at live
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by EpicBacon
I was just about to make a post, I'll be away for a couple of days so wanted to post it before I leave.
As you say, it was difficult to get any data on battles apart from hard and boss battles.
I actually made sure to weaken myself more by using tank girls in the midline and avoiding taking excessive damage relics.
Most of my early data has 10-20 samples, but I realized that I could send Kyoko alone into green fights on floor 1 and 2 on easy mode, and there my sample size jumped to 46-48. That is kind of moot tho as with the new update of the laby, I was able to get a far higher sample size, 80 in my first easy run, and 124 in my normal run today.
Here is my data, feel free to use it to draw any conclusions. @madahmed