Felicia/Keira/Mani Comparative Speed Runs

[EdMuse]

Okay, so I've seen the math.  I understand.  Felicia is the irresistible force, the unstoppable juggernaut, the dreadnought that can't be denied.  But I have to admit, on some level it didn't make sense to me, viscerally, that only leveling Felicia with no support from any other girls was the way to go.  Oh, sure, I was doing that, and in the office that was working out fine for me.  But on the current event, where I was having trouble, it put me in mind of doing a little testing of the hypothesis.  I don't maintain that these results are categorical, or that they deny the mathematical realities.  The tests could have been done better, particularly through repetition, but I was not going to devote that much time to this.  It took over an hour as it was.  Also, it would have been nice to have all three girls fully enhanced, but it's going to be a while before I get the ingredients to do that for Mani and Keira.  So you get what you get.

Conditions:

• Speed runs to max level, idle only, no clicking (except, of course, to level the girls up).
• No power-ups, no buffs from the shop or Gacha.
• Keeping the girls leveled up to maximum as quickly as possible.
• Starting level for all girls: 10120
• Felicia, fully enhanced to lvl. 10000.
• Mani, enhanced to lvl. 8000.
• Keira, enhanced to lvl. 9000.
• A bunch of highly leveled charms, but most importantly for this matter, Sex Tape Souvenir at lvl. 581, for a click-to-idle addition of 5.82k%.

Here are the results:

• Leveling Felicia, only: 13:12 minutes
• Leveling Keira only: 17:10 minutes
• Balanced leveling of Felicia and Keira: 13:16
• Balanced leveling of Felicia and Mani: 13:02
• Balanced leveling of Felicia, Mani and Keira: 13:22

Of course, I didn't do a speed run with just Mani, since I don't think that could actually be called a "speed run."  I also don't know that it would be possible.  So my interpretation of the results is that yeah, Keira was a bust in terms of her powering an idle game through click-to-idle conversion.  But in combination with Felicia, that difference was only a matter of four seconds, so I'll want to revisit this when I get her last enhancement.  In fact, even with their current enhancements, that time difference could possibly be chalked up to the necessity for constant scrolling between them to level them up (wouldn't it be nice if we could rearrange the girls in the list?  Seems to me I've seen that requested a few times....).  But the big surprise was that it actually is effective to level a rewards girl, as leveling Mani shaved a full ten seconds off of my best time for leveling Felicia, alone.

By the way, in the event I'm leveling all three, even though that produced a slightly worse result, here. But I'm doing it so that I can use the click-based power-ups, Smouldering Eye, Manly Sweat and Neptune's Touch, as they become available.  Since Keira provides a nice boost to my idle game, and I don't have Mojo Ring in the event, leveling Keira is necessary for this.

Edited June 26, 2020 by EdMuse
Additional information

[JAVhero]

Can you give me some details on Mani please, since i have no clue where she comes from and what she's doing.

[EdMuse]

4 minutes ago, JAVhero said:

Can you give me some details on Mani please, since i have no clue where she comes from and what she's doing.

Mani is a Gacha girl.  I've had her forever, so she's my go-to girl for boosting rewards.  I think Sabrina is probably better, but I don't have her enhanced to the level I have Mani.

 

[test_anon]

Is 10 seconds really significative ?

You could have miss few seconds where your powers became available, you could have clicked faster, and so on.

[EdMuse]

1 minute ago, test_anon said:

Is 10 seconds really significative ?

You could have miss few seconds where your powers became available, you could have clicked faster, and so on.

It's a subjective interpretation, but here's the way I see it:  If that ten seconds is significant, then yes, leveling a rewards girl is a good idea.  If it isn't, then it means you've dumped a bunch of resources into that rewards girl that could have been going to Felicia.  So Felicia's effectiveness has been diminished, but the rewards girl made up for that.  Or perhaps the best way to put it is that the rewards girl earns her keep, at least, or better.  But I can assure you of one thing, or more appropriately, one pair of things: my leveling of Felicia (or Keira, for that matter) alone was certainly more efficient than my leveling of any pair or trio of girls.  I didn't miss leveling them for any thing like ten seconds, as I was clicking to level them pretty much constantly.  That is to say, I didn't leave it alone and allow it to do its own thing, but rather, I actively kept up with the clicking.  On the other hand, when leveling more than one girl, I had to take the time to scroll between them.  So if there was any lag in effectiveness, it was when I was leveling multiple girls, not when I was leveling Felicia, alone.  And yet, the Felicia/Mani pair was still ten seconds faster.

[EdMuse]

Another thing to bear in mind is that this is Mani with a lvl. 8000 enhancement.  Imagine how much their lead would open up once she's fully enhanced.  And imagine how that would go with a fully enhanced Sabrina, instead.  I'm looking forward to trying this again under those circumstances.  Need three more Marketing Lessons for Juniors to finish Mani's enhancements (already have a bunch of Marketing Lessons for Seniors), and then a bunch more to do Sabrina's enhancements.  So it's going to be a while on that.

[ninof]

13min33 with Lyka only for me

starting at level 10.000

Skipping level at start should have a huge impact.

 

[Sev]

On 6/27/2020 at 11:15 AM, ninof said:

Skipping level at start should have a huge impact.

Yup, I'd say it probably has the biggest impact of all those things that slow down or speed up your runs. And at some point in the game you realize that any further improvement is possible only either through increasing skip-chance or min. reset level. Unfortunately, you won't make any significant improvement on neither of the two as long they keep all the bugs (the level cap, most importantly) not taken care off... 

[Sev]

@EdMuse, I like such texts/posts! It's always nice to read something that involves numbers, stats, analysis and math-oriented stuff in general -- thanks for interesting read! ☺️

About the 10 second with Mani case: It's actually not that surprising that she did helped... It would be more surprising if, conversely, Rewards-type girls were meant not to help LOL. The thing is their help is so negligible small that it's barely visible even if presented with bare numbers like here. Furthermore, Best Reward girls get completely unprofitable probably around Stage 1,000 or so (maybe few hundreds later but still too early) -- if her levels start to cost more than the bonus cash you get of her skill, she must be left behind... And eventually, if it's only 10 seconds, maybe it's better to not level her at all? 😄

 

(Sidenote: Sorry for two posts: weird but It didn't let edit my first post...)

[LanceHardwood]

Leveling a money-girl is only useful while the income increase she provides per upgrade is significant compared to the increase per level of advancement. Generally when you start seeing significant income increase just by climbing ranks, then the money-girl has become superficial. In theory you could make an even faster run, than you have achieved on the event if you pick the right moment to stop leveling Mani. It's still superficial though, because it's rarely worth the effort to constantly watch the game, instead of just doing whatever and pressing the upgrade button on Felicia every few minutes.

In main office, without enhancements, but with several multipliers, prior to the significant level reset boost, I recall that it money-upgrades became useless around level 3-3.5k. In events it will be even worse since we don't have those large multipliers, although enhancements will make up for it a little bit. Main deal is - it is great if you have a high level on reset, because it gives you a significant boost on the lower levels, but not so great otherwise, practically making money-girls superficial.

As for the best girl - it is currently Sabrina, followed by Queen Titania, according to the graph on the fan wiki:

[maxafax]

On average between stage 1-11,700 the entire amount of currency generated allows me to add 1 levels to Clara (Reforge level 11755 to 11756) 13.70 J5, with Mojo Energized+Exiting Flirt this becomes around 3 levels gained from stage 1- 10,500 (11755 to 11758) 13,70 J5 | 14,43 J5 | 15,19 J5 Given that all my girls have enhancements and most are L10+and I have all but 1 currency girl and that I have revard multipliers of x120M (though this will soon be in the B range) and 99.9% chance to triple income +max level on all other crafts and most contacts are on max I would say that overall Yen girls are extremely ineffective and pointless in adding levels to. 

[EdMuse]

Just to let people know, my standard practice is still to upgrade only Felicia.  I did a speed run doing that just last night, and oddly, for whatever improvements I've made since my last set of speed runs, above, my time was still just over 13 minutes.  Perhaps I've hit some sort of maximum?  I'm happy enough, though, that my level after reset is over 10k, so any enhancements I've made on any of my girls are immediately active in full, and I really don't have to worry about upgrading them.

My original point in doing this was to test (for myself, primarily) the hypothesis that mojo spent on upgrading Mani would have been better spent on upgrading Felicia more and faster.  In effect, is the additional Ymen gained worth the Ymen spent?  And as I mentioned, I know the math suggests that it isn't.  But as @Sev wrote, it makes sense that it would work that way, or why would there be reward girls.  However, that suggests that the devs would have had to have put as much effort into calculating and/or testing this as we are, which is not necessarily the safest assumption.  Also as @LanceHardwood seems to suggest, Ymen reward girls like Mani and Estelle are beneficial at lower levels.  That, in fact, was what started me thinking about this: I remember positively depending on Estelle in the beginning, as Bunny alone would run out of steam and require an infusion of Ymen from Estelle to get her going again (that would definitely make for an interesting scene IRL! 🤣).  In practice, the difference seems negligible, though, which is why I still rely almost solely on Felicia.

That said, now I have Arietta, who way outclasses Mani, even without full enhancement.  I've currently got her enhanced to lvl 9000, and as soon as I collect what I need to get her to lvl 10000, I'm going to do these runs again, or at least a run with Felicia alone to one with Felicia and Arietta equally leveled-up.  My expectation is that I won't see much improvement in the time difference between the similar runs, above.  If this turns out to be the case, if for instance I only save ten or twelve seconds with a fully enhanced and upgraded Arietta, my interpretation of that would be that Ymen reward girls are pretty much crap.  The fact that since I did those original runs, I got her and enhanced her to lvl 9000, and with my starting level after reset higher than that, she still doesn't really improve my speed run time suggests that this will be the outcome.

It does still leave open the question of a maximum "idle speed," though.  I mean, there's a 20 click per second maximum, right?  Is there possibly an inviolable limit on idle?

[EdMuse]

On 6/29/2020 at 9:45 PM, Sev said:

Yup, I'd say it probably has the biggest impact of all those things that slow down or speed up your runs. And at some point in the game you realize that any further improvement is possible only either through increasing skip-chance or min. reset level.

My current skip-chance, BTW, is 72.2.  But that only makes a difference up to stage 7801, my min reset stage.  Still, I've always thought it would be fun to try to get that skip-chance up to nearly 100 to see what speed runs would be like if 90% of those first 7800 stages were skipped.

Also BTW, I'm within spittin' distance of having all of the idle contact girls fully upgraded (one more upgrade on Amelia), and as I mentioned before, this hasn't provided for any significant improvement in all-idle speed runs.  This lends credence to my hypothesis about a maximum idle speed, and the idea that I may already be bumping into it, at least as the game goes through the motions of ploughing through my first 10k or so stages.

[LanceHardwood]

46 minutes ago, EdMuse said:

But as @Sev wrote, it makes sense that it would work that way, or why would there be reward girls.

Because that's the only way devs could think of introducing variety. Just like HC/CH/KH specific idle/click girls, which are completely useless. Yes, money girls have a use, but it's only when you have good reset level. At that point they bump the initial stage revenue significantly, but the money growth rate of the stages outperforms them easily. So on average you might have a few dozen levels more on your idle/click girls if you invest in money before that. But at a reset level of 10k, even that benefit is nonexistent.

[Progress]

@EdMuse I think that doing speedrun to test things when there is a cap at 13000 is useless, personaly when I reset I first lvl up Arrietta until max lvl (wich is lvl 13472) and then lvl up félicia max lvl too ( lvl 13521), all of that before reaching the 1000th stage because you can't have more than 180K9 Ymen. Then I just have to let the game run and it will reach stage 13000 alone. So I think that all those limite make it worthless to test speedrun with different configuration.

[EdMuse]

On 8/17/2020 at 7:48 PM, Progress said:

@EdMuse I think that doing speedrun to test things when there is a cap at 13000 is useless, personaly when I reset I first lvl up Arrietta until max lvl (wich is lvl 13472) and then lvl up félicia max lvl too ( lvl 13521), all of that before reaching the 1000th stage because you can't have more than 180K9 Ymen. Then I just have to let the game run and it will reach stage 13000 alone. So I think that all those limite make it worthless to test speedrun with different configuration.

But the 13000 cap is what makes it measurable.  If that cap were removed (remedied, actually), an arbitrary finish line would have to be set in order to do the test.  Also, the fact that the game doesn't just run straight to the cap for me without any input also makes the experiment worthwhile, since it is able to depict time differences in different methods.  See, that's what this experiment is all about: the differences in these timed runs, rather than the raw time figures, themselves.  Those figures would only be useful to someone else whose build is almost exactly the same as mine.  But its the differentiation -- which methodology is faster? -- using the same build for all of the tests that can prove useful for people with different builds.

That said, I'll have to try your method and see if I get a no-click run to the cap.  I didn't know individual girls had max levels.

[EdMuse]

On 8/17/2020 at 7:48 PM, Progress said:

@EdMuse personaly when I reset I first lvl up Arrietta until max lvl (wich is lvl 13472) and then lvl up félicia max lvl too ( lvl 13521), all of that before reaching the 1000th stage because you can't have more than 180K9 Ymen. Then I just have to let the game run and it will reach stage 13000 alone. So I think that all those limite make it worthless to test speedrun with different configuration.

Doesn't look like I can do this.  I don't earn enough ymen to max out Arietta before stage 10k.  What's your build like that you can do this?

[Progress]

In my case, I'm doing all the stage instantly so I spend as much whichever startegise I do so  I can't make comparison.

To be able to max Arietta like this I have a multiplacator for Ymen of * 356.40A1 in général whith an additional multiplicator of *203.21 million on bosses.