Cheese to go with your whine...?

[Kuradur]

I think, personally, my own humble opinion of course, that I have never seen a game forum where there is so much time dedicated to, for lack of better wording (hope I don't get my knickers in a twist for saying it publically but it's my own fault if I do...) bitching, whining, pissing and moaning about the game itself.
Sure, like most players I'd like to see more in the way of storyline development instead of having old characters what were supposed to be kind of limited edition style things rehashed and rehashed again, but hey, I get it, most gamers are used to instant gratification and get bored and move on, storyline development takes time, creative process and all that. Then testing the new stuff, revising what doesn't work, discovering that your revisions have screwed up something else, fixing that... All with not only the boss bitching at you, but your customer base going full tilt into the fray at the same time? (Wouldn't want your jobs, y'all have fun with them.)
Now I've done my fair share of complaining, so not to be the pot calling the kettle black, but holy crap y'all, at least it isn't. "Bitch, whine, bitch, whine... Game sucks... Bitch, whine, bitch, whine... Drop rates suck... Bitch, whine, bitch, whine... I don't win enough... Bitch, whine, bitch, whine..." and I could go on and on.
It reminds me of the reaction you encounter when you tell a three year old they can't have a cookie just because someone else got one, (Sorry kid, sometimes the answer's NO!) and the whole reactive process of, "How come I didn't win!!!??? Boo-Hoo-Hoo!!! This game sucks!!!" is the reason that we now have "Participation Trophies" for everybody instead of empty handed kids staring longingly at the ones getting their photo taken for the local paper standing beside their championship trophy and then striving to better next season.
To put it bluntly, get the fuck over yourselves. It's a GAME. Not only that, most of the elements involved are a game of CHANCE. If it simply breaks your heart to not win every single time, (sorry to the developers) don't play, and if it hurts your feelings to be told that, so be it; if your ass is too chapped, most drug stores sell cream for it. It may or may not come as a surprise, but if you go to Vegas, Atlantic City, Monte Carlo or where-ever and squander everything you own and come away with nothing, no one (except maybe Gamblers Anonymous) is going to care. They're going to tell you, "You played, you lost, sorry 'bout that. Come again," throw you out on the sidewalk, slam the door and be done.
I've played Epic Pachinko and I come away yelling, "DAMNIT! a lot more often than, "WHOO-HOO! YEAH BABY!" but that's the nature of it. If I go to the local convenience mart and buy a dollar bottle of soda, I expect to get a dollar bottle of soda. Quid pro quo, literally translated "This for That." Now on the other hand, if I buy a dollar lottery ticket and win absolutely nothing, I actually expected to win absolutely nothing; nothing but the CHANCE, which I got, of winning the twenty-million dollar prize, which is why winning a big prize is so sweet, you don't actually expect it. But, if you expect to win every time, I can't wait to tell you about Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. (No relation to Ms. Carrot or at least I don't think so...)
Till next time... Y'all take care.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Kuradur
typographical error...

[Vulture]

The game itself is fine, but then some of it's components are broken, I won't tell anything else so as to not go into debates. The point is, If I'm loosing to a fair, working and properly balanced system then I won't have any problem loosing, I'll tip my hat to the game/player/AI whatever and loose with pride with the burning desire of getting better and retry. I play several games and is the same old story everywhere. Devs are humans, but this is their job, and just as I have to get my ass up no matter what I'm doing when my boss calls me and actually be a foreman as it is expected of me, so they too need to get things done, not just delay, or give promises they never keep. They need to fix the problems as any technician would. Imagine electricians not giving a flying in a blackout?

Anyways, this game is quite good, so I tend to be more emotionally involved if I see half assed, broken, unjust or such things, because I would like to see it working properly. A game should be equal in chances and opportunities for all (I know with money involved is harder said than done), that's what ruined modern sports too.

And for your information, a RNG on a computer is anything but random, since as well as it can easily be 'fixed' every randomizing program have an actual script, a pattern for randomizing thing it follows, just as it was programmed to do, so I take RNG's with a grain of salt. So much about chance, it's all zeroes and ones!

[GarfEild]

You make some valid points.  And I will admit, one of the things that drew me to this game early on, was that the drop rates DID seem rather high at first.  Aaaand then they got much, much, much lower. Which I wasn't crazy about.  But so long as ten spins on Epic Pachinko guaranteed a girl, and they attached a girl to daily missions every so often, I could live with low drop rates (though I admittedly would whine from time to time, and hey, there was always a thread to do so, so I never had to start one). But my bigger issues were more about other things, most of which actually have been addressed by recent updates.  So drop rates aside, I am enjoying the game much more. Still, I do still remember a time when drop rates seemed higher, so maybe I'm a bit spoiled, and wasn't pleased when that changed.  However, considering the mods have the power to shut down any thread that gets too... rowdy, when that didn't happen in many of the threads where people were very vocal about complaining, I took that to mean that they wanted to hear what we had to say, even if it was negative. Which I applaud, because there has been some serious naysaying, so thick skin must be required for those jobs.  So yeah, if I don't say it enough, I do like the game, and the people behind it.  Wouldn't still be around if I didn't.

[Chthugha]

Feedback to the community is feedback, so I'll move it to feedback so it can feedback.

Anyway, people should be able to whine every now and then.
When people whine continuously about the same things in the same thread without ever changing, then I shut them down.
One (maybe two) negative comments without any proper feedback is okay in a legendary days thread, but after that you should really come with well constructed arguments as to why it is not a good experience other than "I didn't get anything, so it's a shitty event".

Anyway, I like to leave those first time comments in, because otherwise the threads may seem very positive, which can give the wrong impression.

[Yamamura]

This is how I feel when I get on this page to do some poking around. Lately I just got tired of looking at it, or worse, being a part of it. So, I have to force myself to just take a peek, maybe once a week. No matter what changes they come up with, agreed, or disagree, I'll still play the game.

If anyone else feels this way too, a break just be what you need. Trust me, staying away for a month in a half and taking another look, it will just be the same old crap.

[Kuradur]

Thanks to Chthugha for dropping this thread in the proper place. I thought this was where I put it... Big "Oops" on my part. 

And I agree with pretty much everything that has come as response with notable exceptions. GarfEild, I can't agree with you more... I thought being a developer would suck; NO WAY do I want to moderate forums. UGH! (Getting a migraine thinking about it.)

And to Chthuga, granted people should have a right to whine a bit, but the same thing over and over, "Boo-Hoo-Hoo! I didn't win!" "Boo-Hoo-Hoo! The drop rate is to high!" "Boo-Hoo-Hoo! This game sucks!" on and on and on; I don't know how you do it. My hat's off to you.

On the idea of constructive criticism in the forums I can only repeat the words of a Command Sergeant Major that I served with early in my military career; "If you come to me bitching about a problem you think you have, you better damned well have an idea for a solution that I can implement," and hope that people take them to heart.  

[Chthugha]

30 minutes ago, Kuradur said:

And to Chthuga, granted people should have a right to whine a bit, but the same thing over and over, "Boo-Hoo-Hoo! I didn't win!" "Boo-Hoo-Hoo! The drop rate is to high!" "Boo-Hoo-Hoo! This game sucks!" on and on and on; I don't know how you do it. My hat's off to you.

Well... let's say I get some compensation on my Nutaku account... which gave me the miraculous ability to go from 102-103 girls at the end of april to 149 girls right now
Anyway, most whiners aren't around for long anyway.
The patience is not strong in those players, and you need to have the patience to combat the dark side of the RNG... or in my case, the chance to outsmart the RNG

[sentinel003]

1 hour ago, Chthugha said:

Feedback to the community is feedback, so I'll move it to feedback so it can feedback.

Anyway, people should be able to whine every now and then.
When people whine continuously about the same things in the same thread without ever changing, then I shut them down.
One (maybe two) negative comments without any proper feedback is okay in a legendary days thread, but after that you should really come with well constructed arguments as to why it is not a good experience other than "I didn't get anything, so it's a shitty event".

Anyway, I like to leave those first time comments in, because otherwise the threads may seem very positive, which can give the wrong impression.

Did you ever think that people continue complaining because there really is something to complain about and that they may have a point?

[Kuradur]

"outsmart the RNG "

Touche' Sir... (I think 'Sir'... I'm actually assuming.)Well played. Still wouldn't want your job. I wouldn't do it if they gave me a set of Methril long-johns, an Up-Armored HMMWV that never ran out of fuel and a Dillon Mini-gun that never ran out of ammo.

But maybe for Bavarian crème donuts... (I freakin' LOVE Bavarian crème donuts!)

[Kuradur]

10 minutes ago, sentinel003 said:

Did you ever think that people continue complaining because there really is something to complain about and that they may have a point?

If the bulk of their point screams, "OMFG I didn't win! Boo-Hoo-Hoo! This game freakin' SUCKS ASS!" then that's venting, or ranting, or bitching, depending on your specific point of view and to a point, has a place. However, if that's all you're doing and you're not being proactive in offering a valid solution or expressing an idea that can be conjoined with others to become a viable solution, then your input has no constructive value of any sort; it's just a rant for ranting's sake. People don't rant for endless hours about not winning the Powerball Lottery because it's a game of chance, like most of this game is, they just say, "Well fuck... Lucky bastard," and buy their ticket for next week. If you head in with the idea of, "Anyone can play, but not everyone will win," they'd be a lot better off, not to mention less annoying.

[sentinel003]

2 hours ago, Kuradur said:

If the bulk of their point screams, "OMFG I didn't win! Boo-Hoo-Hoo! This game freakin' SUCKS ASS!" then that's venting, or ranting, or bitching, depending on your specific point of view and to a point, has a place. However, if that's all you're doing and you're not being proactive in offering a valid solution or expressing an idea that can be conjoined with others to become a viable solution, then your input has no constructive value of any sort; it's just a rant for ranting's sake. People don't rant for endless hours about not winning the Powerball Lottery because it's a game of chance, like most of this game is, they just say, "Well fuck... Lucky bastard," and buy their ticket for next week. If you head in with the idea of, "Anyone can play, but not everyone will win," they'd be a lot better off, not to mention less annoying.

If it's a regular girl, then I agree.

But I was also one of those who complained about the drop rates when the team lied that the leg. girls will drop according to the number of days the event lasts. Which means, less time=more chance. People spent thousands of Kobans on those girls and now they're already coming back. I don't have the KH leg. but I still don't want them back so soon.

And for some things you can't give solutions, maybe some ideas. But not everyone is a developer and all we can do is offer opinions, feedback and, yes, sometimes just pure complaints. It is on the people running the game to recognize that those could be the best kinds of feedback. Someone was so unsatisfied that they took the time out of their day to write something to you. Some just leave the game without a word and you are none the wiser and a number of players goes down.

I also complain that they work more on some unnecessary things instead of dealing with the bugs. My girl counter still says 4 less than I really have and I didn't get an appropriate weekly reward because of this.

[GeorgeMTO]

3 hours ago, sentinel003 said:

But I was also one of those who complained about the drop rates when the team lied that the leg. girls will drop according to the number of days the event lasts. Which means, less time=more chance.

This was not stated by the team. They said the drop rate for the event will be adjusted compared to normal events, but they didn't say if it would be higher or lower relative to normal events.  That was how people interpretted it, and we did ask for them to be more clear in the future, but I do just have to clarify that it wasn't said to be higher.

[Habi]

5 hours ago, sentinel003 said:

If it's a regular girl, then I agree.

But I was also one of those who complained about the drop rates when the team lied that the leg. girls will drop according to the number of days the event lasts. Which means, less time=more chance. People spent thousands of Kobans on those girls and now they're already coming back. I don't have the KH leg. but I still don't want them back so soon.

And for some things you can't give solutions, maybe some ideas. But not everyone is a developer and all we can do is offer opinions, feedback and, yes, sometimes just pure complaints. It is on the people running the game to recognize that those could be the best kinds of feedback. Someone was so unsatisfied that they took the time out of their day to write something to you. Some just leave the game without a word and you are none the wiser and a number of players goes down.

I also complain that they work more on some unnecessary things instead of dealing with the bugs. My girl counter still says 4 less than I really have and I didn't get an appropriate weekly reward because of this.

some things you mention here are basically communication issues. they get a lot of (negative) feedback on that and also some constructive suggestions on what info the community wishes when to be satisfied. changing your style of comminication is something that comes close to changing a part of your personality which is a really really hard and slow process. in terms of a company this can be accelerated by implementing some rules but those rules must be figured out, tested and everyone must integrate them into their work life. it is still a very tedious process to get a sustainable improvement in communication. while i strongly hope they are on it we must also be patient and give them time. every now and then we can see a glimpse of an improvement (august's calendar was the first ever consistent one regarding event durations), we now also get start and end times with a time and timezone and not only a date. the biggest lack in that regard is the honesty/clarity imo. but we will adress that with a lot of endurance aswell.

for your last paragraph: as i'm i developer myself i can tell you: not every developer can handle every piece of code. i am a backend/database type guy and if someone throws a js/css problem at me i'm likely to fail in fixing it. maybe with some trial and error and luck but that would take ages compared to a webdeveloper. so if there are a lot of tricky server code bugs occurring at the same time they prolly can't be adressed in parallel in a small company because there is highely likely just one person that can fix em.

as hard as it may sound and as helpless one might feel due to that having patience is the key sometimes. actively and nicely asking about a progress every now and then could/should be done if no info is actively published from kinkoid (where we are back at communication issues).

Edited August 9, 2018 by Habi

[Chthugha]

9 hours ago, sentinel003 said:

Did you ever think that people continue complaining because there really is something to complain about and that they may have a point?

I was merely talking about certain forum users who post the same whining post again and again without actually putting in some new information.

Prime example of this is grepolis and his whining about the PvP.
He created 6 threads about it in the timeframe of 3 months, without ever coming with new information.
It was always the same "I was good at PvP and now it sucks".
So yeah, I shut down his new threads, because they do not add something new.

Same goes for players just writing "this event sucks" and a day later writing it again.
You probably don't notice that, because by that time the posts are hidden, because they do not add anything new to thread.
The first post is there, and after that it's just not important anymore.

Now if you would just read everything I said, then you should know I'm not going to stop people from complaining, I'm just stopping repetitive complaining with no new added value.

[trunks2585]

My problem has been and for the foreseeable future, will remain to be lack of communication with the devs.  And I'm not talking about their mandatory announcement threads.  Anyone that's kept up with the forum since at least february has to have noticed some issues in this regard.  Mostly we get silence, otherwise we get told something will be 'addressed' or 'considered'.  It's not that solutions to the bitching haven't been proposed, it's that they haven't been taken seriously.  I still remember YoyoHH flat out giving up and leaving after running around in circles trying to get straight answers out of Jessie, and he felt like he was being told to file form xyz first before he could file complaint 124, and because he didn't bring his drivers license they couldn't continue the process so go home and return later and start all over.

Personally I hope Chthugha has some stress taken off their shoulders with GeorgeMTO on the team now and that with two mods they can get better communication with the devs as well as discussions between themselves on what issues and concerns should be brought forth that they feel are fair.

[JJJ3]

Whiners were, are and always will be. It's not a game problem, it's whole world problem. Stupidity is undefeatable. On the other hand we have devs, who make sh*t. This game sucks not for RNG, but for content. You see, girls and guys are caricatures of manga/anime/game girls and guys. Worlds are same thing. The devs couldn't create original characters, so they steal and redraw parts of them. That's stupid too. And boss girls are randomly placed too. Like why the hell Dark Lord have Kimie and Arcana, when Kimie is in the Castle with king, and Arcana first saw far far away from them? And when we win them they stay with him like nothing happened. This and many many many issues need to be fixed. I will play until I get totally bored or get another device.

[sentinel003]

8 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

This was not stated by the team. They said the drop rate for the event will be adjusted compared to normal events, but they didn't say if it would be higher or lower relative to normal events.  That was how people interpretted it, and we did ask for them to be more clear in the future, but I do just have to clarify that it wasn't said to be higher.

They said drops would be adjusted to the duration of the event. Which meant that 14-day events and 5-day events have different drop rates, i.e. shorter ones should have higher rng. As this was straight out ignorance from the team, since that was the first leg. event, people went for the jugular. And rightfully so, because they wouldn't admit they made a mistake.

[GeorgeMTO]

You just made the same assumption in there again. Adjusted doesn't mean higher, it means "different", you've just assumed that it should mean higher in this case. I made a similar mistake at the time, as did many others, but it's still a mistake on our parts not theirs.

As this is not the point of the topic I won't be continuing this discussion (we had enough of THAT in the original event discussion thread). Please do not say that the devs said something they did not say. Stepping in to correct that was all my intent.

[sentinel003]

It wasn't a mistake on our part. The statement was vague enough to provide such defence that you are providing now, probably as a result of speaking English as a second language. But it was repeatedly asked and I'm not accepting some shit that I am assuming. I believe that it was also asked directly and we got the answer that it meant exactly what we thought it does. Maybe we deserved a more complicated answer saying that the rarity of the girl combined with the duration of the event would influence a drop rate in such way that it is accordingly harder, but possible to get. But now we see that they aren't so rare after all if we're gonna have them every other month.

[Skiron]

6 hours ago, JJJ3 said:

You see, girls and guys are caricatures of manga/anime/game girls and guys. Worlds are same thing. The devs couldn't create original characters, so they steal and redraw parts of them. That's stupid too.

you might wanna look up the following words:

homage, parody and persiflage

it is not missing creativity, it is a concept...

and just my humble personal opinion: a well done parody requires more creativity than the original (often enough at least)

Edited August 9, 2018 by Skiron