Getting Promoted in a League can be a punishment

[asdf10]

So I'm a low level (76 at time of writing) that finished 8th in my league (without using refills). Previously I could beat ~50% of the people in the league but for my current league I can beat a grand total of 2 people. I am currently 83rd place in my league and don't see make the top 75 to not be relegated. The main issue is, not only do I get crappy experience gain because I can't defeat people, I will get 0 koban rewards because the lowest tier rewards in leagues never give kobans. So in this situation it would have been better for me to purposely tank season one and get 16th place and do well in season two. If the leagues promote purposely doing poorly in some situations then that is poor game design. While this does not affect high level players currently, it will effect them in the higher leagues. Imagine being a low 200ish player that got 15th place in Sexpert 1 and got 192 kobans plus 864k reward, then in Sexpert 2 getting crushed by all ~300 level players and getting 86.4k and relegated.

My proposal would to be adjust the rewards for the 76+ tier to match the rewards of the 16-75th tier of the previous league, this way players are not incentivised to aim to get 16th place in order to not promote. Relegation from the higher league should be punishment enough.

[Sylhere]

The system is new , you need to let time so the high lvl get to the higher leagues , the medium lvl to medium leagues and same for lower . 
That's all .

[asdf10]

This is not a "leagues are new issue" this is an issue that will happen when leagues are at steady state as well. In fact, it will probably be worse when we are at steady state. The people most likely to be demoted in the league will be the people being promoted from the previous league, as the other league participants were either able to survive the league last week, or were demoted from an even higher league.

The suggestion here is *not* changing the gameplay of leagues, it's adjusting the rewards so promotion doesn't mean you get basically 0 reward the next week. (In addition to a big exp hit)

[Moe Overload]

Yeah, I agree that the reward structure is a bit strange. Almost all of the variety in the rewards is in the top fifteen ranks, aka, everyone that gets promoted. Once we're in a steady state and someone is consistently in the middle ~70% that doesn't get promoted or demoted, they won't get any change in rewards for being higher or lower in that tier until they hit top 15, at which point they get promoted (and then probably demoted the week after that).

[Zteev]

I think the reward structure is okay, but you have to understand what's happening with it.

A number of lower level people promoted due to the league season being shortened. If you were in a league with a lot of less active foes, then you got there due to activity and got a good reward for week 1. However, the flip side of promoting before you are even close to ready to compete there is that week 2 will be a real problem in the new higher league, we see this with sports teams that promote/relegate often.

You have 2 choices: try to hang in the higher tier, or not. Generally, by dropping back down, you should be reasonably able to bounce back up, and you are in a league where you are so weak, you have little chance of staying out of the bottom 15. The real bad spot to be is in that area where you get no rewards, and don't relegate. I can see the argument for giving the reward for the non-relegators who are 75th and lower to get something.

I think those who do relegate should get less than those who don't, and that relegation itself isn't a sufficient negative, because if you do well in the lower league the next week, you can do better by yo-yoing around, and I wouldn't want to reward tanking.

 

[Moe Overload]

You described me pretty well. If I wasn't intentionally not competing at the moment to drop back to Wanker I right now, I may have been just barely able to maintain position 75. If I do drop down, placing in 2-4 like I did the first time in the league (even more likely since I won't get beaten by someone with kobans like I did last time and even less high level players) will net me more rewards than finishing 16-75 twice in Wanker II.

The worst option is for me to land between 76 and 85, since I won't get a reward, but I also won't drop down to Wanker I. Also, the way the EXP is structured, a win will always give more EXP than a loss. So it still makes sense from an EXP perspective to stop fighting, drop off this time and slum around in Wanker I for a week to level up and come back stronger.

[asdf10]

23 hours ago, Moe Overload said:

The worst option is for me to land between 76 and 85, since I won't get a reward, but I also won't drop down to Wanker I. Also, the way the EXP is structured, a win will always give more EXP than a loss. So it still makes sense from an EXP perspective to stop fighting, drop off this time and slum around in Wanker I for a week to level up and come back stronger.

Wow, the situation is even worse than I thought. Yeah you're right, as it stands now, I'll probably be in that range and not even relegate. Which means crap rewards *and* another crappy week in a league I can't compete in with a huge exp hit. It does highlight the issue with the reward structure, it should never be advantageous to purposely not compete in the league

[fap.titans.gra]

On 9/30/2018 at 5:36 PM, Sylhere said:

The system is new , you need to let time so the high lvl get to the higher leagues , the medium lvl to medium leagues and same for lower . 
That's all .

but it's not a problem!

The problem is that the rewards are immeasurable,  you are being punished for promoting you to a better league. No matter the level of players, most players are always punished.
If you are in the top 15 you get more than the players from 16-100 from the league above. Even though they are better than you because they have already been promoted.

I will give in my example:
1 sezon: 1st place: Wanker 1,                                                                                        120 kobans, between 520.000 to 700.000 ymen (based on your level) and an epic book
2 sezon:  10th place: Wanker 2,                                                                                      48 kobans, up to 280.000 ymen (based on your level) and an epic or rare booster (randomly chosen)
3 sezon: after seeing the ego of all opponents (i am 80th) 76-100: Wanker 3,     28.000 ymen (based on your level) and a rare or common equipment (randomly chosen)
 

you see when progressing, gets worse and worse prizes.  From my perspective, it would be better to give up and fall back to wanker 1 instead of reaching wanker 3,  again, I could win or be in the first 4.

the prize system should be changed.

A similar topic, but with a different point of view is  

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by fap.titans.gra

[casey]

Because the "Leagues" have just started 2 plus weeks ago the various strength of the battle teams will need 3 or more seasons

tp sort themselves out.

If your one of those battle teams caught in the middle where you are to strong to be relegated but to weak to get a major prize,

I have one response for you, to bad. Why is the current prevailing notion if you compete than you deserve a prize.

My suggestion is, If your in this situation than build up your battle team and make it stronger or don't compete and drop down into

a lower league where you will be competitive.

I started playing in August 2017 and have gone out of my way to construct a strong battle team that currently has an ego of 190000 boosted

Yet I'm only the 6th or 7th best team in my league.

What am I going to do? Knowing I can't finish in the top 4 places I will make a point of finishing 16th or worse and competing in the next league season

 I believe then the teams will be weaker and I will have a good chance of finishing in the top 4.  That is called strategy and adapting to the realities of the

situation. Don't sulk or complain adapt, remember the old saying if your given a bunch of lemons than don't cry make lemonade.

 

[asdf10]

Quote

I started playing in August 2017 and have gone out of my way to construct a strong battle team that currently has an ego of 190000 boosted

Yet I'm only the 6th or 7th best team in my league.

What am I going to do? Knowing I can't finish in the top 4 places I will make a point of finishing 16th or worse and competing in the next league season

 I believe then the teams will be weaker and I will have a good chance of finishing in the top 4.  That is called strategy and adapting to the realities of the

situation

I have clearly already identified in the original post that the optimal strategy for me is to purposely not do as well in the league as I am able to. That is not the issue, the issue is systemic. As you are the 7th best person in your league, but it's better for you to not advance, which is a problem.

Quote

 Don't sulk or complain adapt, remember the old saying if your given a bunch of lemons than don't cry make lemonade.

I will maximize my rewards regardless of what the developers implement; however if the league system is supposed to reward people for moving to a higher tier, thus facing harder people, then players should be rewarded for that, not punished. All the current system does is promote this weird sub game around the 75th and 15th breakpoints where people who could move up purposely do not because that is better for them. As this is the suggestion forum, I posted here to suggest that the rewards be re-balanced such that it is never a punishment to do as well as you can. After reading your post, it tells me this is not even a problem with the area around 75th place, but also 15th place. This tells me that more balancing is required than my initial suggestion. It might mean that the lowest tier of the next league should give the same rewards as 1st place (or 2nd to 4th place) as the previous league. This obviously would also have to come with a reduction of rewards for the lower leagues to balance the overall rewards from the leagues.

[_shal_]

I'm pretty sure all these issues will resolve themselves simply by the passing of time. The various league tiers will get closer in size after a few weeks, which will mean smaller skill differentials from one league to the next, and also make it much more risky to engage in tanking strategies since that only pays off if you're certain to finish at least in the top 4 in the lower league.

It would be nice if the lowest koban awards extended to all non-demotion spots rather than leaving this weird gap between 75th and 85th place, but that's about it IMHO.