Multi-day club boss

[jpanda]

After trying it for a while, I think the multi-day club boss is really good for my club.  We would regularly get about 50-75% so now we can maintain that pace and really lose nothing.  If we play harder or there are good positions, we are still rewarded.

Good change IMO and thanks.

I felt it a bit late to say thanks in the Patch Notes thread, hopefully here is fine.

[SoggyShorts]

I like to think that this sort of feedback makes our own trouble with the change worthwhile.  With perhaps one or two exceptions, we've downed every CC we've tackled and are using the second round to help members who didn't get all the shards the first time to finish.  The majority of us finished during the first round.  We have a good division of labor and fairly high ongoing participation, suggested contributions from finishers to balance the non-finishers' shard range with finishers' ticket burn... all the hard-nosed things that make this feature attainable for the greatest possible number of players.

Our problem with the change is that we can no longer opt to skip a CC if it has 3+ matches.  Well, I suppose that we COULD skip it, but we'd be skipping it for the remainder of the month and would be denying our non-finishers the opportunity for shards.  Overall, the change has greatly affected our ticket burn rate to the point where we are beginning to question our ability to sustain our inherently cooperative play style.  We are also losing participation because the "mandatory" (i.e. non-skippable) nature of the CC is affecting morale.

We ARE to some degree victims of our own success: sorta strong, but not monolithically so (big level spread), so we're presented with pretty tough CCs with a limited (and declining) set of players to carry the water.  I'm glad, relieved really, to hear that the change is working for SOME clubs though.  We'd theorized that this was the intent of the change.  Thanks for confirming it.

[Pelinor]

The good news about this change is now members in a club can sustain a moderate effort to defeat the CC. Before the change, we saw the HH tickets being drained faster than we could recover them (even if we skipped all regular Champion fights). Now, assuming modest gains by the PoP, every member has the ability to participate. The bad news is still the disproportionate return on the effort used to achieve victory for players who have gotten the girl. A single affection item is worth less than the single legendary equipment item given in the regular Champions (by a factor of 100) which passes the border into the ridiculous. 

[jpanda]

1 hour ago, Pelinor said:

A single affection item is worth less than the single legendary equipment item given in the regular Champions (by a factor of 100) which passes the border into the ridiculous. 

While I agree this could be improved (and have since before the change), curious how you came up with that factor...legendary item unless usable by me is money which is worthless.  I much prefer the affection item and have been putting in the same effort for my club even if I have the girl to make sure they complete it thusly.  Even if your affection is max unless you're getting 0 girls (which seems unlikely) that factor seems extreme.

I haven't counted but I feel like with my playstyle/power (and my club participation) this is probably only maybe 50% more battles than a regular champion.  I know people love metrics here, so that might be an exaggeration/ballpark.

[Pelinor]

50 minutes ago, jpanda said:

While I agree this could be improved (and have since before the change), curious how you came up with that factor...legendary item unless usable by me is money which is worthless.

The money factor is what I was referring to in my assesment. You may count money as worthless, yet you can buy 100 affection items for the same cash you use to buy a single legendary piece of equipment. Even if you go by what you get when you sell a legendary piece of equipment you could buy 20 legendary affection items with the proceeds from the sale. 

[Kenrae]

52 minutes ago, Pelinor said:

The money factor is what I was referring to in my assesment. You may count money as worthless, yet you can buy 100 affection items for the same cash you use to buy a single legendary piece of equipment. Even if you go by what you get when you sell a legendary piece of equipment you could buy 20 legendary affection items with the proceeds from the sale. 

There's a limit for what you can buy, market refreshes every 8 hours. I buy all affection items (and books) the instant they appear, they are worth much more than the money they cost.

[Squirt42]

There was a post about getting Mythic affection gifts that I thought would be intriguing. I think if those were added to the pool high level players would help complete the club champion on a regular basis. Even though the value of an equipment reward from Champions is more than the affection reward from CC I think the affection is better. I have leveled to 300+ recently and I find doing Place of Power (PoP) three times a day more than makes enough money, tickets, and other rewards that the only resource in scarce supply is Kobani and affection. After a certain level and play Champions become moot except when competing in a daily event. The effort to spend tickets at 15-minute intervals or spend Kobani to do it faster to get equipment is pointless when a single 10-game Great Pachinko provides 8-9 items worth about ~3.7 million (@ level 319). I am sure the 400 level players have billions to spend now and Mythic gifts would be a good reward.

[DocJD]

11 hours ago, Pelinor said:

The money factor is what I was referring to in my assesment. You may count money as worthless, yet you can buy 100 affection items for the same cash you use to buy a single legendary piece of equipment. Even if you go by what you get when you sell a legendary piece of equipment you could buy 20 legendary affection items with the proceeds from the sale. 

I have never bought a piece of Legendary Equipment. I can get at least half a dozen daily from 10x orbs in the PoP. I, like many others, prefer the Legendary gifts over anohter Legendary Equipment (more than 90% of which are not upgrades from what I already have). I also get tickets from PoP faster than I can use them, so I don't mind spending some to help out my club mates.

[Booj]

I gotta agree that it's a lot of effort for legendary flowers. Pachinko orbs might help keep me more interested while the rest of the club is collecting their shards.

[DocJD]

3 hours ago, Booj said:

I gotta agree that it's a lot of effort for legendary flowers. Pachinko orbs might help keep me more interested while the rest of the club is collecting their shards.

If you have a functional club, and you alrady have the girl, you don't have to do a lot of work. Just one or a few fights. Let those without the girl pump their effort into getting more shards. If you club has less than 30 members, find a new club.

[SoggyShorts]

On 6/10/2021 at 12:52 AM, DocJD said:

If you have a functional club, and you alrady have the girl, you don't have to do a lot of work. Just one or a few fights. Let those without the girl pump their effort into getting more shards. If you club has less than 30 members, find a new club.

I have to disagree with this.  Or at least, it doesn't match our own reality... largely because of the universally reviled shard RANGE.  Our not-so-strong hitters are hand-to-mouth with tickets while the CC gets significantly harder with each iteration.  If someone who hits for 300k impression per ticket were assured of a good shard drop for their effort and ticket expenditure, then things may work out as you say.  However, a player can drop 80-100 tickets and get 1 or 2 shards.  It can happen and it DOES happen, very often, and it results in a normative effect in which players try to limit their exposure to the range by hitting more times for a smaller range.  This is how the stronger players who already have the girl end up carrying the water: out of altrusim since the reward is a complete dud for the amount of contact time.  

A club that consists of more or less equal-strength members is probably benefiting, as the OP suggests.  Effectively, though, the have's doing 1 or 2 tickets while the have-not's do the majority of the impression just isn't realistic or teamy.  In my opinion, it's veiled-competitive: "I got mine, now I'll sit back while you get yours."  Perhaps your club is of more or less equal strength and fairly strong at that, so that's a fair way to do things.  But in a club with a 100+ level spread, the not-so-strong players would feel hung out to dry.  As much as I despise the CC ...feature as implemented and tweaked, I can't bring myself to just stop.  Yet.

[DocJD]

4 hours ago, SoggyShorts said:

I have to disagree with this.  Or at least, it doesn't match our own reality... largely because of the universally reviled shard RANGE.  Our not-so-strong hitters are hand-to-mouth with tickets while the CC gets significantly harder with each iteration.  If someone who hits for 300k impression per ticket were assured of a good shard drop for their effort and ticket expenditure, then things may work out as you say.  However, a player can drop 80-100 tickets and get 1 or 2 shards.  It can happen and it DOES happen, very often, and it results in a normative effect in which players try to limit their exposure to the range by hitting more times for a smaller range.  This is how the stronger players who already have the girl end up carrying the water: out of altrusim since the reward is a complete dud for the amount of contact time.  

A club that consists of more or less equal-strength members is probably benefiting, as the OP suggests.  Effectively, though, the have's doing 1 or 2 tickets while the have-not's do the majority of the impression just isn't realistic or teamy.  In my opinion, it's veiled-competitive: "I got mine, now I'll sit back while you get yours."  Perhaps your club is of more or less equal strength and fairly strong at that, so that's a fair way to do things.  But in a club with a 100+ level spread, the not-so-strong players would feel hung out to dry.  As much as I despise the CC ...feature as implemented and tweaked, I can't bring myself to just stop.  Yet.

Our club ranges from level 280 to 456. Right now, most of our guys have the girl. We have 35 members who've contributed to the present, active fight, 18 of which have only 1 or 2 battles and 25 have 10 or less. By having many members contribute, the shard range for those who put in many tickets gets large and it won't take many rounds for them to get the girl, considering most of them have shards left over from 3 months ago. If the range for the guys who need shards is 1 to 35 or 40, I doubt many of them will get "only 1 or 2 shards." That's the advantage of letting the lower level guys contribute the most fights. You don't have to do that many iterations for them to get the girl. I've got about 3000 tickets but have only done one fight. I could easily do more but then the guys who need shards would have a smaller range. Letting the have nots do the majority of the impression is exactly how they get more shards. I think your club is using a bad strategy. Instead of doing many iterations at a smaller range (which is why your villian's level keeps increasing, and your lower level guys live hand to mouth) try my suggestion for your next round. The new rule where the champ doesn't reset in 24 hours is what lets this strategy work for the "have nots."

[SoggyShorts]

Hmm.  Thanks, we'll discuss it.  Seems improbable that they can accumulate that much impression, but you're right, what we're doing isn't working well despite seeming fair.  Or even generous.  Possibly too late for this CC since we've already pumped him up a lot of levels, but we'll (re)formulate a plan for the next one. 🙂

[DocJD]

7 minutes ago, SoggyShorts said:

Hmm.  Thanks, we'll discuss it.  Seems improbable that they can accumulate that much impression, but you're right, what we're doing isn't working well despite seeming fair.  Or even generous.  Possibly too late for this CC since we've already pumped him up a lot of levels, but we'll (re)formulate a plan for the next one. 🙂

Good luck. Somewhere among the threads here on the forum is a table showing shard range for a given number of participants broken down by how big the individual's contribution is. If you can find it, you can show others in your club the benefits of everyone who hasn't got the girl putting in 1 or 2 fights while, say, 10 members without the girl each get to contribute 6 to 10% of the total. It may take a few more days to finish the fight, as the have nots accumulate tickets more slowly, but it works.

[Omnimundo2]

Wait until you get a 5 match and see what you think then, the low level players will hardly get anywhere against the champion.