Upgrade Samane

[Fiel]

3 minutes ago, Hollo said:

BUT only because we're not considering how they're acquired.

Because that isn't relevant to the topic you are in right now. OP has some issues with the balance, and I'm pointing out to him why he is being beat up: Because the two other classes have 5-star girls that destroy his 5-star girls.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Fiel

[Hollo]

1 minute ago, Fiel said:

Because that isn't relevant to the topic you are in right now. OP has some issues with the balance, and I'm pointing out to him why he is being beat up: Because the two other classes have 5-star girls that destroy his 5-star girls.

You don't know that. The OP hasn't said who's beating him, and it's easily the case that he's being beaten by normies who don't have all the best girls maxed out. What's relevant is which girls are within easy reach of most players.

[Fiel]

1 minute ago, Hollo said:

You don't know that. 

I know he has the weakest class, so it's easy to figure out the other players have much stronger 5-star girls than his 5-star Samane.

[Hollo]

2 minutes ago, Fiel said:

I know he has the weakest class, so it's easy to figure out the other players have much stronger 5-star girls than his 5-star Samane.

But that's not true either, as I explained in the previous three posts. If his class is weaker than the other two, the degree is so small that he can overcome it with gear and stat pumping.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Hollo
asdf

[Fiel]

Just now, Hollo said:

If his class is weaker than the other two, the degree is so small that he can overcome it with gear and stat pumping.

That was my advice as well. Until you claimed I was wrong.

But all else being equal he is still at disadvantage even with gear and stat pumping.

[Hollo]

Ehh?? No, I agree with you on what to do about it. The only part I disagree with is that the game is "rigged" against KH. It's not even clear it's a disadvantage, given KH's better crit ability. (And I didn't even get into the innate advantage KH has against Charm.)

[Fiel]

2 minutes ago, Hollo said:

It's not even clear it's a disadvantage, given KH's better crit ability. (And I didn't even get into the innate advantage KH has against Charm.)

The Stats are more important than anything else because HP and attack power are directly influenced from it. It's dishonest to claim it's not a clear advantage.

As far as I'm aware, all three classes have equal critical abilities. But you won't get anywhere if you have inferior stats. There is a reason why the other poster keep losing and it's due to stats.

[Hollo]

I agree it's a clear advantage, all other things being equal, so I'm not dishonest about that. What's dishonest is claiming that it's the only clear advantage, or that it's influenced solely by which school has which girls with which stats. It's not, because stats are also influenced by which of those top-tier girls are easiest to get, and then to max out*.

The schools do not have equal crit abilities. Check the patch notes from a few weeks back, and the discussion thread analyzing them.

Charm is generally considered worse than KH and HC, given the typical stats players have.

*And for like the fifth time: the difference in stats between girls will be lost in the noise, given gear and pumping variance.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Hollo

[Fiel]

5 minutes ago, Hollo said:

What's dishonest is claiming that it's the only clear advantage, or that it's influenced solely by which school has which girls with which stats. It's not, because stats are also influenced by which of those top-tier girls are easiest to get, and then to max out*.

You keep bringing this up, but it's not relevant to the topic.

The other poster is at a progression where he has 5 star Samane and still gets destroyed. Due to inferior stats from Know-how girls..

[Hollo]

Okay, I meant to mention this before, but I'll do it now: first, it's not the OP (as you seemed to imply above).

Secondly, I already explained in great detail why it is relevant, so if all you can do is sit there and repeatedly assert what has been refuted before, with no supporting information, I'll just let the stuff above stand and not bother anymore.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Hollo

[Fiel]

4 minutes ago, Hollo said:

Okay, I meant to mention this before, but I'll do it now: first, it's not the OP (as you seemed to imply above).

Secondly, I already explained in great detail why it is relevant,

So he isn't OP, but he is still the root of my first reply.

Your explanation does not explain why he keeps being defeated, you claim he has an advantage over charm. But when he sees all his defeats vs. your claim: Then I understand why he would not believe in what you say.

On the other hand, my explanation perfectly explains why he keeps getting destroyed. That's why my argument has higher credibility.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Fiel

[Hollo]

Here's the comment you originally replied to: "My Samane is now @ the 5 star level but I'm still losing pvp fights."

That comment is very ambiguous. Did you consider the possibility that he's not losing as much as you think? Maybe it meant he's losing some, when he thinks he shouldn't lose any. Maybe he's losing some and only noticing those, and not the one's he's winning. And maybe it's just due to his stats. I've seen commenters do this all the time; they complain about something that turns out to be not as bad as the comment might sound. That's three things off the top of my head that are consistent with his comment, with Samane being perfectly useful as his alpha, and not with your explanation, which seems to imply that no matter what he does, he'll lose too much (how much? >50%? >33%?), simply because he's KH.

I think "perfectly" does not mean what you think it means.

[Fiel]

2 minutes ago, Hollo said:

Here's the comment you originally replied to: "My Samane is now @ the 5 star level but I'm still losing pvp fights."

That comment is very ambiguous. Did you consider the possibility that he's not losing as much as you think? Maybe it meant he's losing some, when he thinks he shouldn't lose any.

Perhaps. But that's when I apply my own experience and tend to agree with him about know-how getting screwed over by inferior stats in general.

[jrharr16]

@Fiel He never said he was getting screwed over by anything just that he was still losing. Also this has gone way off the rails @Chthugha

[Fiel]

1 minute ago, jrharr16 said:

He never said he was getting screwed over by anything just that he was still losing.

It's safe to assume it's bad enough for him to come to the forums and complain.

There was literally nothing wrong in what I did: Explaining to him the cause, and explaining to him he should prepare for something even worse when Charm gets Legendary.

[jrharr16]

@Fiel, I don't think you did anything wrong other than jumping to a conclusion you don't know is true, and in a couple months, maybe less, KH will get their chance at a legendary girl. Also as i said before all the girls charm has we are going to lose because of the rarity update so it won't matter then anyway. The devs have also said that every girl is going to receive 5* at some point. The game is not rigged against anyone, I believe that was Hollo's point.

[Fiel]

4 minutes ago, jrharr16 said:

The game is not rigged against anyone,

In the future it might not be. In a few months, you may be right in all likelihood.

But right now the Know-how faction is rigged against.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Fiel

[jrharr16]

9 minutes ago, Fiel said:

But right now the Know-how faction is rigged against.

I have seen many HC accounts say the same as well as Charm.

HC has the weakest over all 5* girls which causes a lot of them to feel that the game is against them. They also claim Samane and other KH girls to be more useful

Charm has by far the weakest PVP "boost" and is probably going to lose their girls that are useful now to rarity.

And KH I guess you guys feel that Charm a huge advantage due to # of 5* girls and the stat boost from them

 

My point is that everybody has an argument that the game is against them. I lose several PVP I know I "should" win going against HC players and still lose with an all Charm team and Abrael as my alpha so it's not just KH losing when they "shouldn't" in PVP all classes do.

 

[Fiel]

32 minutes ago, jrharr16 said:

I have seen many HC accounts say the same as well as Charm.

HC has the weakest over all 5* girls which causes a lot of them to feel that the game is against them. They also claim Samane and other KH girls to be more useful

Charm has by far the weakest PVP "boost" and is probably going to lose their girls that are useful now to rarity.

And KH I guess you guys feel that Charm a huge advantage due to # of 5* girls and the stat boost from them

I don't understand why they would say such things. Samane is the weakest of the top1 characters, she is destroyed by Levitya and she will be destroyed by the new Charm legendary. Putting Levitya as the Alpha girl is a massive advantage of Stat bonuses, this is something Samane can never compete with.

You are trying to make us hopeful about a mechanism that is months away at best, but people might quit the game before then. And I don't believe for even 1 second the Critical difference is as important as the raw stats.

[jrharr16]

@Fiel we are off topic so this will be my last post. I do not believe we are going to come to an agreement here as we both have our own bias and view about the game, but I wish you good luck in your gaming and hope that one day you will feel that the game is fair across all classes in PVP.

 

 

[casey]

7 hours ago, Fiel said:

The game is a rigged against Know-how at the moment. 

Charm has 6 five-star girsl, 3  of those girls are just as strong as Samane. And they are getting a new Legendary girl in a few days, so prepare to get destroyed even harder.

Hardcore has the strongest heroine, so there's that.

 

The only thing you can do is try to upgrade your hero as much as you can, or change class, but you already wasted your money on Samane, Unfortunately.

I am a hardcore player

[Hollo]

@casey, what's your ID? (click your profile in-game; it should be next to your thumbnail portrait on the left) I tried searching for you and got some level 5 that I'm sure is not you. I might be able to help, if you want.

Samane's KH, so she shouldn't be your alpha. But I'm guessing you know that. You should probably be running with Levitya if you have her, or alternately Fairy or Bunny.

[casey]

5 hours ago, Hollo said:

@casey, what's your ID? (click your profile in-game; it should be next to your thumbnail portrait on the left) I tried searching for you and got some level 5 that I'm sure is not you. I might be able to help, if you want.

Samane's KH, so she shouldn't be your alpha. But I'm guessing you know that. You should probably be running with Levitya if you have her, or alternately Fairy or Bunny.

I would appreciate any help that you can give me ,  I believe my I.D. is ID 256770 

i feel with the battle team I have I shouldn't lose as many pvp battles as I do 

I'm  hardcore level 237 my alpha is Levitya @ 5 stars,  Beta is Fairy @ 4 stars,  and the Omega is Bunny @ 5 stars , I have several possible  substitutes such as Samane @ 5 stars,  Princess Agate 5 stars,

Red Battler 5 stars, jennie 5 stars, Ankyo 5 stars, Princess Noemy 5 stars, and Abrael 5 stars

[Chthugha]

@Fiel @Hollo

It's a bit late now, but next time try to keep it shorter than that exchange of words.
Those kind of discussions can go the wrong way really quick, and tend to go off topic.
Next time I shall have to give you guys a warning point for spamming.

[Daniele]

15 hours ago, Fiel said:

I don't understand why they would say such things. Samane is the weakest of the top1 characters, she is destroyed by Levitya and she will be destroyed by the new Charm legendary. Putting Levitya as the Alpha girl is a massive advantage of Stat bonuses, this is something Samane can never compete with.

You are trying to make us hopeful about a mechanism that is months away at best, but people might quit the game before then. And I don't believe for even 1 second the Critical difference is as important as the raw stats.

Sorry, but it seems you don't know how the game works. Let's talk about it.
Abrael and Samane are equal, so the presumed advantage is given only by beta girl (omega is useless). At the moment it seems that beta addiction doesn't work properly, as you can read here:
http://forum.hentaiheroes.com/index.php?/topic/4732-after-orgasm-beta-calculates-backwards/
So right now i guess that this charm advantage over KH you're talking about doesn't exist. But let's assume everything works fine.
Now, the second best charm girl is Lenaelle (EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE) with a 5-star stat multiplier of 9.25; and the second best KH girl is Princess Agate (cheap) with a 5-star stat multiplier of 7.5.
In my example i'll use my current level (225):
5-star Lenaelle at lvl 225 has her charm stat at 2081.25, so as beta she adds 2705.6 in both your attack and defence (2081.25 x 1.3);
5-star Princess Agate at lvl 225 has her KH stat at 1687.5, so as beta she adds 2193.75 in both your attack and defence.

Remember that only alpha contributes to the stats at the start of the battle, so we need to wait the first orgasm to have beta in battle. For me this means that beta join the battle only after the 4th hit (3 hits to fill excitation and 1 more for orgasm), but maybe with Abrael at 5 stars you could need to wait even 1 hit more. Battles last 6-7 hits, so beta contributes only for the last 2-3 hits at most. Lenaelle provides an advantage over Agate of 1024 ego per hit (2705.6 - 2193.75 = 512 in both atk & def), so the advantage you're talking about should be around 2048-3072 ego.

Now let's check Harmony special abilities. Once again i'll use my account level/stats:
a charm player with my equipment/stats and both 5-star Abrael and Lenaelle would have a KH defence of 4650 with alpha in battle and 7356 with beta, so the bonus would be 4650 at the beginning and 7356 at the end of the battle;
a KH player with my equipment/stats and 5-star Samane (beta doesn't affect ego) would have 121976 ego, so the bonus would be 12197.

KH crit bonus is more than twice better than charm's one, if both players trigger their harmony 1 time the charm beta superiority is not only nullified, but actually KH have an advantage of 4841-7547 ego.

Do you know what this means? It means that charm players need to spend a loooot more money in affection/stat upgrades only to have a smaller disadvantage over other classes. IMHO at the moment charm class is the worst in pvp.

This is how the game works, so if you lose it's not because of your class.

The only thing you can complain about is that KH will be the last class to have a legendary event. But if you ask  me HC -> CH -> KH is the correct order, and besides probably you need to wait only 2 months.

 

EDIT: OOPS, sorry chthugha, i read your post just now

Edited May 15, 2018 by Daniele