Wicked X-mas Event - choosing the best girl and discussing

[Chthugha]

Then it doesn't matter much. They all make anatomy mistakes.

[Falco82]

23 minuti fa, Chthugha ha scritto:

Then it doesn't matter much. They all make anatomy mistakes.

It's not true at all, you can be wrong once, perhaps, for distraction but if you know the anatomy you can play with it with your style and the drawn is always correct.

The old characters are a perfect example, I don't remember anyone wrong in this way, do you?

Here it's just not correct, and it's not a one-time mistake, simply the basics are missing. There is really no comparison.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Falco82

[GeorgeMTO]

2 hours ago, Falco82 said:

The old characters are a perfect example, I don't remember anyone wrong in this way, do you?

There are several instances of awful feet anatomy, and one other instance of two of the same hand on one of the Bunny avatars but I forget which.

[Falco82]

47 minuti fa, GeorgeMTO ha scritto:

There are several instances of awful feet anatomy, and one other instance of two of the same hand on one of the Bunny avatars but I forget which.

Maybe I can't explain me: putting the same hand on both arms is not a symptom of not knowing the anatomy, it is simply a (bad) distraction mistake, it's not wanted, it's obvious.

Regarding the "awful feet anatomy" it depends what you means. Example, the foot in the foreground of Red Battler in the last pose is ugly and could have been done better but it is an inaccuracy of style, not an anatomical error.

As I said, let's not confuse the two concepts: respecting anatomy doesn't mean making realistic or perfect drawings but respect some rules without doing things randomly.

If you look at the old 80s cartoons there are characters that have legs that swell up to the foot but this wasn't due to anatomical errors but a deliberate choice to play with anatomy representing it in a different way, in fact they will appear throughout the work drawed in the same way.

In this case, the hand in reverse can be a distraction mistake, ok?! But the body that takes strange folds? The hands with forced poses? The breast misshapen? The lack of expression? Let's be clear, I have seen professional work in the game so far (with or without errors), this is not from any point of view, I'm sorry.

[Zorba the Geek]

On 12/23/2019 at 7:16 AM, Chthugha said:

"Get artists who know how to use it"... I don't think it is that easy. Finding an artist for a game like this is already a hard task, and then we are not even talking about being able to draw in the same style as Ben. I think we should give this artist time to adapt.

I do agree with you here.  I've been in the same position in the past.  With HH and a new event once a month, plus epic and legendary days alternating monthly, as well as the now occasional direct additions to Epic Pachinko, the poor artist has some frightening deadlines to achieve.

Falco82 makes some very compelling points, however.  And I would add some more comments. Have you noticed the luminous quality of Selene's and especially Melissa's skin tones.  It's a goddess-like whiteness where they appear to radiate brilliance.  Because luminosity (light emitted from a source) overrides any tonality due to the angle that incident light strikes a surface, the effect is flatness and a lack of any tonal contrast so it is hard to perceive 3-D depth.  At first I thought this was deliberate and I accepted it at first as a statement, but when I saw that our hero was drawn the same way I began to question the validity of style.

I agree with him, too, about breasts.  A well-drawn breast (and as the previous artist proved they can be a range of sizes and shapes reflecting the great diversity of the female breast) is, to me, a tremendous sexual statement and can be very erotic.  It can also indicate the degree of arousal of the drawn subject - from erect and enlarged nipples to puffy areolae that a number of increasingly turned-on females exhibit.  I found what the previous artist was able to achieve here, with the diversity of breast anatomy at his disposal, was simply outstanding.  Quite apart from this, drawing them lop-sided can undo any erotic expression that the artist might've wanted to achieve for that character.

On the topic of hands, yes Falso82 is right on the mark in his criticism because drawing (say) a left hand on a right arm is just unforgivable and shows the lack of proof reading that should just as much apply to artwork as text.

But you're right, give the artist time to adapt, but not an indefinite 'bedding in' period.  Some of the confusion of style can undermine the culture of the game if it is allowed to persist.

[Bomba]

I'm with Falco82 and Zorba the Geek on this one. I can't be as precise with pointing out what makes them "weird", but the fact is - something is weird about them - both Melissa and Selene. And that's not something that should be in the game, where art is the selling point.

Maybe it's the anatomy mistakes, maybe it's the "luminous quality"(it's an another way of saying shadows are wrong, but it's more accurate here). Maybe that luminosity emphasizes the anatomy mistakes and makes them more obvious. But something makes it weird. And weird means the drop of quality and there should be something done about this. I think the author of this style should either improve in some areas, like anatomy or lighting(luminosity) or perspective, etc; or move on to the girls, where this art will be more suited - maybe some girls with angel origins or inner magical powers or something. Or maybe it's just an experimentation or deadline drop of quality. In which case we still need to point out that something is wrong.

After all, these discussions started from "All this girls are cool, but this one is my favourite" and now they're at the point "These girls look weird". And I don't think the problem is we, who became too presumptuous.

If "Wicked X-mas Event" girls had some issues, now it's a problem that really should be addressed. After all, Melissa and Selene are permanent pachinko girls and are here to stay.

[DvDivXXX]

Falco and Zorba both have advanced knowledge and/or understanding acquired from training and/or studying art, that's clear to me. I'm not a visual artist myself, but I've been interested in this topic since childhood, I went to art school, and I've worked with several artists in the past. I have a trained eye as well for these things but, as I mentioned in a previous post, I unfortunately lack the English vocabulary to explain things as well as they do (because I'm French and I never discussed this topic in English until now). I'll give it my best anyway, because I feel the art quality and style (or lack thereof) used for the past few new girls marks a turning point for this game. A really bad one.

Just look at this:

You don't need a trained eye to notice that 2 of those headshots stick out like sore thumbs, and it's not just because they're done with different techniques and in a different style. I've seen tons of collage made from completely different drawings by completely different artists in the past, for posters or ads for a comic book convention, for instance. They can feel weird to an extent, but they usually don't look wrong like the above does. Because each individual drawing is from a professional artist who operates in the same visual realm as the others, at least, and each has merit.

Here's the thing: I can crank up "art" like this or very close to it in Paint fairly easily. So can most of you guys in this thread. Trust me, it's not that hard:

But you can't even come close to the other headshots, even the so-so ones, without being an artist. Because they're actual drawings, whereas the two things above are not. Instead, they feel like screenshots from one of those dress up your doll apps/games, or from a tool to customize your avatar in a cheap visual novel thing/game. See what I mean? There's no details to speak of, here, but more importantly there's no bone structure, no angle (unless you count "dead center facing camera as rigidly as possibly, with no perspective involved whatsoever and as little things to show as possible"). These are glorified smileys, is what I'm trying to say. They share the same extremely basic, simplistic, lifeless shapes to represent a face in the least artistic way possible. And on top of that, those basic shapes clearly refer to a stereotypical "manga" visual style that has nothing to do with the visual realm this game has shown thus far.

A bit more about style. Even though many drawings from past artists vary in style, and/or have errors and inconsistencies (for instance, when I fight Ninja Spy and I see my Mizuki next to his Solveig, their designs, their renditions and even their respective images' sizes clearly clash with one another), there's still enough common ground and enough shared rules or principles between them to still feel like they at least belong to the same realm aesthetically. These two new girls, just like Selene and Melissa before them, are completely alien to the feel and aesthetics of this game. They also lower the bar in art quality by miles, no doubt about it, but even if they were done much better, they just don't belong with the body of work of this game's previous artists.

Kinkoid has been stretching the boundaries of the game's visual style quite a bit over the past few months already, with stuff like Sady or any of the Western event girls, for instance: less emphasis on the pencils and inks approach, more focus on the digital coloring process, and also a stronger Japanese influence than before (the bulk of the game's art has more to do with 70s/80s American comic books and French/Belgian bande dessinée than with pure manga or anime, in my opinion) but these are pushing it way too far. Sady has a few issues (unnaturally long toes, for one thing) and also some elements, notably the eyes and the way to render her hair, that lean more towards anime or manga than US or EU comics, but she's still beautiful and beautifully drawn in most of her poses (and affection scenes), and she still has many common traits with the rest of my harem. I can say the same of, say, Sheriff Spook or Outlaw Mary. They aren't quite in line with most of the girls from the game's past, but it can still be perceived as an evolution (and, depending on your own taste, possibly as an improvement, even if I tend to prefer the game's classic style, as seen in OG Abraëlle for instance). The last few pachinko girls we're discussing here, in sharp contrast, have basically nothing in common with this game's visual identity.

And I also agree with Bomba: all four of these are permanent Epic Pachinko girls now, which already damages the game's overall visual appeal in my eyes. If they keep going in this direction, they're going to lose my interest (at least my interest in their new content).

Edited December 25, 2019 by DvDivXXX
typo and spacing

[Karyia]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Falco and Zorba both have advanced knowledge and/or understanding acquired from training and/or studying art, that's clear to me. I'm not a visual artist myself, but I've been interested in this topic since childhood, I went to art school, and I've worked with several artists in the past. I have a trained eye as well for these things but, as I mentioned in a previous post, I unfortunately lack the English vocabulary to explain things as well as they do (because I'm French and I never discussed this topic in English until now). I'll give it my best anyway, because I feel the art quality and style (or lack thereof) used for the past few new girls marks a turning point for this game. A really bad one.

Just look at this:

You don't need a trained eye to notice that 2 of those headshots stick out like sore thumbs, and it's not just because they're done with different techniques and in a different style. I've seen tons of collage made from completely different drawings by completely different artists in the past, for posters or ads for a comic book convention, for instance. They can feel weird to an extent, but they usually don't look wrong like the above does. Because each individual drawing is from a professional artist who operates in the same visual realm as the others, at least, and each has merit.

Here's the thing: I can crank up "art" like this or very close to it in Paint fairly easily. So can most of you guys in this thread. Trust me, it's not that hard:

But you can't even come close to the other headshots, even the so-so ones, without being an artist. Because they're actual drawings, whereas the two things above are not. Instead, they feel like screenshots from one of those dress up your doll apps/games, or from a tool to customize your avatar in a cheap visual novel thing/game. See what I mean? There's no details to speak of, here, but more importantly there's no bone structure, no angle (unless you count "dead center facing camera as rigidly as possibly, with no perspective involved whatsoever and as little things to show as possible"). These are glorified smileys, is what I'm trying to say. They share the same extremely basic, simplistic, lifeless shapes to represent a face in the least artistic way possible. And on top of that, those basic shapes clearly refer to a stereotypical "manga" visual style that has nothing to do with the visual realm this game has shown thus far.

A bit more about style. Even though many drawings from past artists vary in style, and/or have errors and inconsistencies (for instance, when I fight Ninja Spy and I see my Mizuki next to his Solveig, their designs, their renditions and even their respective images' sizes clearly clash with one another), there's still enough common ground and enough shared rules or principles between them to still feel like they at least belong to the same realm aesthetically. These two new girls, just like Selene and Melissa before them, are completely alien to the feel and aesthetics of this game. They also lower the bar in art quality by miles, no doubt about it, but even if they were done much better, they just don't belong with the body of work of this game's previous artists.

Kinkoid has been stretching the boundaries of the game's visual style quite a bit over the past few months already, with stuff like Sady or any of the Western event girls, for instance: less emphasis on the pencils and inks approach, more focus on the digital coloring process, and also a stronger Japanese influence than before (the bulk of the game's art has more to do with 70s/80s American comic books and French/Belgian bande dessinée than with pure manga or anime, in my opinion) but these are pushing it way too far. Sady has a few issues (unnaturally long toes, for one thing) and also some elements, notably the eyes and the way to render her hair, that lean more towards anime or manga than US or EU comics, but she's still beautiful and beautifully drawn in most of her poses (and affection scenes), and she still has many common traits with the rest of my harem. I can say the same of, say, Sheriff Spook or Outlaw Mary. They aren't quite in line with most of the girls from the game's past, but it can still be perceived as an evolution (and, depending on your own taste, possibly as an improvement, even if I tend to prefer the game's classic style, as seen in OG Abraëlle for instance). The last few pachinko girls we're discussing here, in sharp contrast, have basically nothing in common with this game's visual identity.

And I also agree with Bomba: all four of these are permanent Epic Pachinko girls now, which already damages the game's overall visual appeal in my eyes. If they keep going in this direction, they're going to lose my interest (at least my interest in their new content).

Can't help but agree with what is pointed out here.

I'm not sure if the right word is wrong or weird or something else... but I would definitely say it's at least off, regarding the previous work. Holiday, for one, looks/seems "doll-ish".

I'm not an expert on the subject like most of the previous posters, and I'm recent to the game but it seems there's a distinct "new look" or even path being taken with the last new girls. Which, in itself, doesn't have to be wrong or bad. Expanding and/or evolving is to be expected, I think. 

But like most have said here, it seems like the new art is sort of like... lacking, to say the least?

I'm definitely NOT the best person to judge but I congratulate the "discussion" that is going on here, both in form and content.

It seems to me like the "community" is worried about the current quality and approach being taken with the game and they're expressing their opinion in a constructive way. 👌👏

Having said that, I'd like to add that, IMO, not all is negative.

I, for one, am a fan of both Santa Claudia 3 and Selene.

Hopefully, they're trying to expand the visual style within the game, though there's a certainly a "new style" that seems being implemented. Maybe they're just "testing the waters". 

Bear in mind, that in the "voting" posts for the new event girls that have been going on, there's never any criticism like there is here. Which can/will give the wrong idea, given what has been said here.

Sorry for the bit of off topic.

[Bomba]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Here's the thing: I can crank up "art" like this or very close to it in Paint fairly easily. So can most of you guys in this thread. Trust me, it's not that hard:

I can confirm this. Can't draw at all, but can make those. It's time consuming with mostly Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V, rotation and color change, but doable. The point checks out.

That was a well thought out and in depth explanation. I didn't notice any of that until it was pointed out. It's good to have people with this level of knowledge about the subject.

Speaking of which, you mentioned digital coloring process. And in specifics Sheriff Spook and Outlaw Mary. Isn't it the same style that goes back to Eco Diver Nemah -> Delicia -> Alana and all the way to the Val Mala or even Kameyala? I wanted to mention them, because all of them have the same coloring pattern and they all stay on tiptoes. So you could say that girl's heels may be the artist's Achilles' heel.  And if it's the same style, then it could be easily argued that in case of Sheriff Spook and Outlaw Mary it was just a negative effect of either deadline or experiment. Because if one can draw Delicia like that it's honestly ok to mess up arms and legs and everything for however long. It was a godlike drawing spree. And if artist's reading this: Bravo! That was an outstanding art! Especially Delicia, she's hot! in every sense of that word.

But that's not the case for this new girls. Just look at the Kryll's 3 star pose. That's simply not a pose that can exist in this game. All this years artists tried their hardest to fit girls into this vertical rectangle and now we see this. It's unacceptable. I won't touch anatomy in her case, Falco82 will have a field day with it anyway and will explain it better then me. And I'm not even talking about this red shape thingy. There's just no quality here to speak of.

And just to be clear I'll add that now the topic shifted towards 4 newest girls - Selene, Melissa, Holiday and Kryll.

[Zorba the Geek]

5 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Falco and Zorba both have advanced knowledge and/or understanding acquired from training and/or studying art, that's clear to me. I'm not a visual artist myself, but I've been interested in this topic since childhood, I went to art school, and I've worked with several artists in the past. I have a trained eye as well for these things but, as I mentioned in a previous post, I unfortunately lack the English vocabulary to explain things as well as they do (because I'm French and I never discussed this topic in English until now). I'll give it my best anyway, because I feel the art quality and style (or lack thereof) used for the past few new girls marks a turning point for this game. A really bad one.

Just look at this:

You don't need a trained eye to notice that 2 of those headshots stick out like sore thumbs, and it's not just because they're done with different techniques and in a different style. I've seen tons of collage made from completely different drawings by completely different artists in the past, for posters or ads for a comic book convention, for instance. They can feel weird to an extent, but they usually don't look wrong like the above does. Because each individual drawing is from a professional artist who operates in the same visual realm as the others, at least, and each has merit.

Here's the thing: I can crank up "art" like this or very close to it in Paint fairly easily. So can most of you guys in this thread. Trust me, it's not that hard:

But you can't even come close to the other headshots, even the so-so ones, without being an artist. Because they're actual drawings, whether the two things above are not. Instead, they feel like screenshots from one of those dress up your doll apps/games, or from a tool to customize your avatar in a cheap visual novel thing/game. See what I mean? There's no details to speak of, here, but more importantly there's no bone structure, no angle (unless you count "dead center facing camera as rigidly as possibly, with no perspective involved whatsoever and as little things to show as possible"). These are glorified smileys, is what I'm trying to say. They share the same extremely basic, simplistic, lifeless shapes to represent a face in the least artistic way possible. And on top of that, those basic shapes clearly refer to a stereotypical "manga" visual style that has nothing to do with the visual realm this game has shown thus far.

A bit more about style. Even though many drawings from past artists vary in style, and/or have errors and inconsistencies (for instance, when I fight Ninja Spy and I see my Mizuki next to his Solveig, their designs, their renditions and even their respective images' sizes clearly clash with one another), there's still enough common ground and enough shared rules or principles between them to still feel like they at least belong to the same realm aesthetically. These two new girls, just like Selene and Melissa before them, are completely alien to the feel and aesthetics of this game. They also lower the bar in art quality by miles, no doubt about it, but even if they were done much better, they just don't belong with the body of work of this game's previous artists. They've been stretching the boundaries of the game's visual style quite a bit over the past few months already, with stuff like Sady or any of the Western event girls, for instance: less emphasis on the pencils and inks approach, more focus on the digital coloring process, and also a stronger Japanese influence than before (the bulk of the game's art has more to do with 70s/80s American comic books and French/Belgian bande dessinée than with pure manga or anime, in my opinion) but these are pushing it way too far. Sady has a few issues (unnaturally long toes, for one thing) and also some elements, notably the eyes and the way to render her hair, that lean more towards anime or manga than US or EU comics, but she's still beautiful and beautifully drawn in most of her poses (and affection scenes), and she still has many common traits with the rest of my harem. I can say the same of, say, Sheriff Spook or Outlaw Mary. They aren't quite in line with most of the girls from the game's past, but it can still be perceived as an evolution (and, depending on your own taste, possibly as an improvement, even if I tend to prefer the game's classic style, as seen in OG Abraëlle for instance). The last few pachinko girls we're discussing here, in sharp contrast, have basically nothing in common with this game's visual identity.

And I also agree with Bomba: all four of these are permanent Epic Pachinko girls now, which already damages the game's overall visual appeal in my eyes. If they keep going in this direction, they're going to lose my interest (at least my interest in their new content).

That's a really well expressed post and I thank you for it.  You said at the beginning that you're French and you rather unfairly put yourself down by telling us that you lack the English vocabulary to explain yourself well.  Can I tell you most gently?  Nonsense!  I couldn't have put it better myself and my language is English (a New Zealander).  As I write this it has turned into one of my marathon posts, so I apologise in advance.  You inspired me so it's all your fault.  Lol.

I agree with you re. Sady, but not entirely.  I would say some of the deformatities you pointed out were deliberate, given her ghoulish origins, and especially the eyes which are either cat-like or reptilian until she'd changed into a pretty and normal girl, albeit stark naked.

Just a correction, I'm flattered by your assessment of me as a trained artist.  I'm not, but I have studied human anatomy and honed my powers of observation and drawing/painting techniques over many decades.  I've long wanted to capture human form and movement through the subtilities of muscle and tendon movement.  This captures human emotions especially well.  I'm a keen photographer, too, and am well aware of perspective techniques porn photographers use to enhance the erotic female form, especially rear end views.  It's patently obvious that this does not successfully translate to manga, amime or Western-style cartoon drawing.  Nor does what I call 'saturation lighting' one sees in an over-exposed image translate.  It just becomes flat and featureless.

Yes, this game has a culture and demands of artists a certain consistency.  The original girls have a visual personality and when this is undermined by something completely new, we end up with new girls.  Abraël has a number of derivations of which her Chocolate Maker version is a highlight for me.  In this she's beautifully drawn and incredibly sexy, even though I cannot make out what that thing is over her pussy.  It's not clear with the low screen resolution of the image.  I've been critical of the 'airbag' nature of her boobs in the past, but not this time; they seem more natural and really lovely.  In general the original artist never did get the proportions of boobs right from side on.  They were too big and too projecting, quite deformed in fact.  The artist, in trying to show a boob when realistically it would be obscured by an arm, ended up showing something quite grotesque.  Check out the fairy scenes in the magic forest and you'll see what I mean.  That same artist also needed to be consistent in the shapes and sizes of each girl's boobs.  Take Princess Agate for example.  She has small breasts and they are beautifully perky and firm, but sometimes they are drawn too big in affection scenes or story images when she is being especially vigorous.  I know it's not real and it's only a cartoon, but breast shapes and sizes are part of the persona of each girl and it is important to get them consistently right every time, from whatever angle and depicting whatever activity.

When changes are pretty extreme we players tend to react.  The most blatant examples I can think of are the 4 and 5 star poses of Bunny and Juliette.  Their facial features are far from attractive and they are, franky, weird.  Under some criticism, HH were forced to redraw these images, but they didn't go far enough.  I was especially troubled by Bunny.  She's special to me and I love her to bits, and she is HH's mascot and brand identity so great care is needed when creating any new versions of her.  For example, is it possible to show a glistening aroused pussy instead of one dribbling cum or piss?  Wet skin surfaces are easily reproduced because light from them is fully reflected and the light source is shown as a sharp outline bright form.  Matte or rough surfaces tend to scatter and disperse reflected light so tonal features become emphasised.  I was able to paint and draw aroused female genitalia quite easily, along with parting and slightly exposed labia minora.

One aspect of HH's artwork I've had consistent trouble with is the final poses of the girls - usually when drenched in cum.  This to me is far from sexy and instead simply grubby and boring.  From time to time something a little more coy would be more appropriate with a flirting stip-tease (and variations according to what the girl represents) used instead.  After all, we are meant to represent the hero (or vice versa) so the girls are meant to be putting on a seductive show just for us.  Capturing flirtiness can be really hard as it can be very subtle in a female.  Also arousal changes in genitalia (breasts and vulva) can be faithfully drawn to create a sexy and arousing image no amount of cum can reproduce.  I guess what I'm saying is that if I get too much of HH's usual stuff I tend to want to fall asleep!

Girl artwork highlights for me (and I court some controversy here): Magical Girls - all of them in fact.  Great attire, pretty faces and lovely bodies, especially the Pachinko girls like Cori, Alana and Anita Torino.  The other lasting impression on me was from Sexy Beast (later to become Cute Monsters in the revival).  I was desperate to get each of the Pachinko girls and managed two out of three (Hornita continues to evade my attentions).

There's something very special about all these girls that is almost groin-tightening and I think it comes down to the mythology of how female hybrid human creatures have always tugged at males' imagination and desire.  Cat creatures especially have epitomised sensuality and lithe grace, very sexy, and Lives delivers for me in spades.  She has the most unusually beautiful face and eyes of any of the girls I managed to recruit and her concept is top-notch.  She's so damn cute I can't stop thinking about her and that's VERY unhealthy!  The other Pachinko girl from this event I really enjoyed was Deniz.  How they managed to turn a jellyfish into a concept of pure sexuality I have no idea, but they did it, and the idea of see-through sex was especially well done.  I also greatly enjoyed the slithering and coiling sensuality and caresses of the Lamia, Neidre.  I could almost feel her warmth and hugging smoothness.  As for that boardroom bitch, Maleva, I didn't like her opening pose much, but she grew on me as she went along, especially her magnificent, perky boobs.  Never in any other of the events (other than Magical Girls) have I struggled to choose my best girl.  Lilith might come up a bit short because I don't consider satyrs all that sexy and I had a pet goat who used to piss and shit on my bed, thinking she was human - a self-declared house goat!  This left an indelible stain on my appreciation for any goat-like creatures.

Yes, there's a lot to build upon without reinventing the wheel, and lots of fantastic events to draw from.  Even among the boss girls, HH continue to deliver.  Carrying on with the catgirl theme, Acadia is a standout and I can't wait to recruit her - but she'll have to wait because I'm being distracted by Tiers for Villains.  I have to confess to a liking for Manga style with big eyes, but, in HH's case, still believable as human females: Lapsy, Talila, Acadia... To me, pure Hentai, as practised in Japan, comes too close for my comfort in flirting with paedophilia, with baby-like features too much to the fore, and I hope HH does not swing in this direction.  They came perilously close with Countess Semana, but got out of jail just in time.  All in all, there's a lot to think about in the evolution of the game, and it's not just in artistic technique, although this is a crucial part of the end result and the game's evolving culture.

[Falco82]

I don't agree on demonizing the manga style, for me it can be even more beautiful than the western one.

The problem is that it must be done well and many fall into the stereotype manga=superficiality (which is not true at all) and do works that of manga have only the big eyes (another false stereotype).

Sady certainly has Japanese influences (especially in the characterization of the character) but it blends well with the rest, and in the end there is no longer this clear division between Eastern and Western styles, both influence each other and this leads to a general improvement.

As usual problem here is not in the style and regarding the two new ones I agree 100% with what DvDivXXX wrote. Especially Holiday, with his eyes too far away and the limbs that thins downward, I cannot understand how a person with that body can standing and there is nothing captivating in either of them.

I know I'm strange, but I really can't look at them...

[Bomba]

3 hours ago, Zorba the Geek said:

 

Zorba the Geek uses Wall Of Text !
It's super effective!

Well, I already learned that we have a very similar taste in girls. So I totally agree with what you said, though for different reasons sometimes. But with two exceptions: First, I'm unable to paint and draw aroused parts. And second, I've never had problems with goats, so I''m cool with Lilith. And yeah, Lapsey is so cool, that I'm considering switching to Know-How.

1 hour ago, Falco82 said:

I don't agree on demonizing the manga style, for me it can be even more beautiful than the western one.

The problem is that it must be done well and many fall into the stereotype manga=superficiality (which is not true at all) and do works that of manga have only the big eyes (another false stereotype).

Agree. Manga style allows itself some liberties, but still follows the same rules. After all, without knowing a proper anatomy you can't make a drawing look real. It's exactly that - style. Both western and manga styles are viable and good in their own right.