[ 18-Jun-20 ] Music Event - Discussion

[test_anon]

Il y a 3 heures, LanceHardwood a dit :

Since you keep quoting me I'm going to say this once - I have absolutely zero interest in anything you have to say/do/prove etc.

I react to your message, of course I'm quoting you, else it would be difficult to follow the conversation.

 

You have criticism about this game, okay.

But the fact that you have zero interest into someone could prove, is just immature. You made claims, theses claims where the foundations of your argument. I am currently proving your claims false, thus making your position without any foundations.

The fact it doesn't interest you is just intellectual dishonnesty, you do not seek the truth, only to "win" (or "not loose") the argument.

 

You made the claim that new players would need event girls to get Felicia, and need Felicia to get event girl. I currently proving it false :

1. there is puzzle events ;
2. i am into the process of getting Felicia without event girls, and even, without all powers/some usefull perks.

You made the claim that "normal players" wouldn't have Felicia x18, i presented probabilities showing otherwise.

You made the claim that new players wouldn't be able to finish this event... even after 1 month of playing... I am currently proving this claim false. Next week I will finish this event with Felicia at least x3.

You made some claims about the progress in the office, I showed that this is irrelevant as players doesn't compete in the office (another players could have reached level 37k, it wouldn't impact me). As new player already have interresting perks to unlock without worrying having new ones (this require a lot of affection), that there is puzzle events, and potentially revivals in few months.

You made the claim that I didn't understood the difficulty, I answered by showing that I did more difficult, and now that I am currently doing the event at maximum difficulty (i.e. with a new account starting 1 day after the begining of the event).

 

Yes I understand that having to spend kobans in an event (only the first, or at worst the 2 firsts), is not super. However, events offers you 5.5k of kobans, and you can win ~500 per days + some more with daily missions. Thus this is not like you would need a lot of time to gather the required koban amount. Yeah, some would prefers to invest all into Gacha or affection... but whatever you do, you will not have enough kobans to empty the Gacha, or to unlock all perks. Spending some elsewhere is not the end of the world.

Yes I understand that you can't play full days on it. That's why this event lasts ~9 days. You want more ? You can buy things. Remember that you play the game for free and that whales are paying for you. For 3€ per months, ou can have 18k of kobans per months, that should be enough for the events. You also have an offers at 5€ for 45k of kobans. You even have a bundle for 10€ with 10 boosters.

 

After, if you neither want to play or pay, what are you here for ?

 

 

... And remember that you dared me to finish this event... and now that I'm doing it, suddently, you are not interested anymore....

Edited June 21, 2020 by test_anon

[Just_To_Complain]

Il y a 12 heures, LanceHardwood a dit :

Because you're looking at your own stats only. For example mine are:



And I haven't even unlocked all the idle multipliers I have because I don't need them at this point. By comparison, what is achievable with the Main Office girls is about x8, x3, x3, x3 of the respective multipliers if we disregard the post 10k levels because they're unreachable with the above multipliers.

When you started playing where you able to reach the last girl obtainable through the office ? I was not, some people could because they put money in the game or they got lucky but i did not, only by playing events and unlocking their perks, was i able to reach higher stage.
So newer player having trouble is just how it should be.

Citation

Regardless of how old a player you are, this is more than an advantage. Granted you've hit a wall for different reasons, but if that wall wasn't there, you'd be at level 17k+ or who knows where,

It is an advantage, but i don't take into account hypothetical situation, the state of the game right now, is that stage 13k is the limit. So no matter how high i could reach thanks to perks, multiplier and what not, they're of no use in the current state of the game. 

Citation

while newer players without enhancements will be stuck below 8k until they're lucky enough to get a puzzle event with a triple multiplier girl.

Yeah because they're newer players.
Right now the game still allows newer players to get girls from event, but even if they didn't, events still gives out ressrouces to improve, which should be good enough. Because with time or money they are able to progress and advance. 

Citation

Even if everything worked fine, that additional source of multiplier is a drop in the bucket compared to the many x10-15 multipliers we have already, so it doesn't make sense as just an additional source of damage.

I was refering to my case when talking about enhancement being useless in the office (also remember contacts ? they're also utterly useless for us except "Harem girls level after reset +x" for some quality of life) but not everyone has toons of girls and perks so maybe you already have toons of x10-15 multipliers but others might not. 
Also since it's a multiplier it does help a lot, even if you already have many x10-15 having one more still considerably increase your stats. The issue is that the increase is useless because we can't go over stage 13k.

Anyway if there are more damage source then there'll be more way to earn them making more content for the game, since this game is kinda devoid of content adding some to it helps keeping us occupied (not for long tho :x).

Citation

Enhancements have no use to you because they aren't targeted at you. Or if I'm wrong in that assumption - then their addition before fixing the cap was completely useless. Why spend the effort to add them when they bring nothing to the main game ? Unless, they are aimed at  getting players who don't have 10+ Felicia multi to spend Ryuos on event boosters. Is that strategy acceptable to you ?

Even if enhancement was only designed for event i don't think that's wrong, right now there's no reason to improve anything so having enhancement gives me a reason to keep playing daily.

And even if it really was "Unless they have 10+ Felicia, they'd have to spend ryos" i think it's perfectly fine.
With time they'll also have 10+ Felicia like us so they won't have to spend ryos anymore so they just have to keep playing and that's it.

By now it should be guessable but i stand for new player having to either spend time playing or spend money to catch up faster.

[JAVhero]

1 hour ago, test_anon said:

You can buy things. Remember that you play the game for free and that whales are paying for you.

So let's adore the whales then  

For me it's quite simple: the game isn't worth my money and i doubt any other idle game is (nude girls or not)

[LanceHardwood]

@Just_To_Complain Your whole post shows the type of thinking that lead to the current state of the game, including the level cap and other issues.

On the stats I was exactly pointing it out that we are far in the main office because of event girls. But events were always difficult to new players, so enhancements can make their life a little easier. But now that events are also balanced around enhancements as well, obtaining event girls is even harder than before. So for all their usefulness these enhancements will not help anybody progress the 4-5k levels which events can give them. Yeah, nobody's supposed to insta-cap main office, but you're forgetting the amount of effort required to unlock those perks anyway. I can personally say that being stuck around level 8k inbetween events was pretty annoying as we didn't have enough multipliers even with events at that point.

[test_anon]

il y a 4 minutes, LanceHardwood a dit :

But events were always difficult to new players, so enhancements can make their life a little easier.

And how theses events were easier to oldest player ?

Contact girls and perks does not count on events... Once you got Felicia, you got almost everything.

 

Also, if enhancement makes life easier to newest players... so is for oldest players too...

[JAVhero]

Just finished the event and got Arietta.
I was able to get past the last boss without the usage of any of the skills, clicking was enough for me.
No boosters used during the event, no Ryos spent on Reset and probably i could have finished it a couple of hours earlier.

Time left: 6 days, 20 hours
Stage: 4200
Felicia: 11100 (x8)
Keira: 10900 (x3)
Charms: 20 (Sex Tape was my 9th purchase, Mojo Ring was my 13th purchase)
Nuber of resets: 10
Mojo left: 9.67B

Charm levels:

Shamanic Finger Tingler: 220 (Click +32.95K%)
Mojo Amulettes: 220 (Idle +32.95K%)
Dirty Talking Scripts: 71 (Seconds on Boss +150% ~37 sec.)
Maneki Chinpo: 200 (Rewards + 29.95K%)
Emphatic Chat Book: 200 (Non Boss Reward + 39.90K%)
Titcoin: 201 (Chance to tripple the rewards +25%)

Mojo Ring: 230 (Add 462% of your idle to your click)
Sex Tape Souvenir: 230 (Add 2.31K% of your click to your idle)

Mojo Shocker: 101 (Chance to do Critical on click +15%)
Mojo Lube: 200 (Increase the Critical value of click +418%)

Charms not listed here at ~ lvl 150)

For comparison, Stage and Levels from Friday 19.06.2020 at 01:52 PM
Time left: 9 days, 0 hours
Stage: 3550
Felicia: 9300 (x8)
Keira: 9275 (x3)
Charms: 18 (Sex Tape was number 9 purchase, Mojo Ring was number 13 purchase)

Summary:
This stage 4200 clicking event was way easier for me than the previous stage 4900 clicking event, where i had to buy many boosters to finish it (at least for double the Ryos i've got through the event) and yet it was a grind fest.
The active play time needed to finish the current event was still too much for my taste, as i usually don't want to spent an average of >1 hour a day on an idle game - approximately 12-16 hours play time until now.
I think without Felicia (plus her x8 multiplier) and great luck on my charms, i would have had way more trouble.

[Hkishi]

Il y a 1 heure, LanceHardwood a dit :

@Just_To_Complain Your whole post shows the type of thinking that lead to the current state of the game, including the level cap and other issues.

Could you elaborate ? 

Isn't the stage cap issue just bad coding and no planning ?

Citation

On the stats I was exactly pointing it out that we are far in the main office because of event girls. But events were always difficult to new players, so enhancements can make their life a little easier. But now that events are also balanced around enhancements as well, obtaining event girls is even harder than before. So for all their usefulness these enhancements will not help anybody progress the 4-5k levels which events can give them. Yeah, nobody's supposed to insta-cap main office, but you're forgetting the amount of effort required to unlock those perks anyway. I can personally say that being stuck around level 8k inbetween events was pretty annoying as we didn't have enough multipliers even with events at that point.

Enhancement was never for new player, the system itself gives advantage to older player. 

 

Iirc, except the first event older player only had the girls they unlocked as advantage before enhancement was released. The only requirement was get Felicia and you could clear the event.

Honestly do you really think they're balancing anything ? I just think they kept the exponent rate of the first event and they're just increase how many stage there is if people said too hard or too easy.

 

As for newer player you already know my stance.

Edit------------

I didn't know I still had my HH account I'm @Just_To_Complain

Edited June 21, 2020 by Hkishi

[LanceHardwood]

8 minutes ago, Hkishi said:

Could you elaborate ? 

Isn't the stage cap issue just bad coding and no planning ?

It's an issue of bad game design, namely - consistently inflating numbers by large amounts, specifically due to the use of multipliers and how they work.

8 minutes ago, Hkishi said:

Enhancement was never for new player, the system itself gives advantage to older player. 

It gives advantage only during events where older players are likely to have a higher multiplier, but I am talking about main office. If you accept that it's targeted at events then why the hell would older players need further advantage when they already had advantage before ?

Unless you support the stance that the discrepancy between older and newer players should be greater ? If that's the case, then I have nothing more to say.

Edited June 21, 2020 by LanceHardwood

[test_anon]

il y a 2 minutes, LanceHardwood a dit :

It's an issue of bad game design, namely - consistently inflating numbers by large amounts, specifically due to the use of multipliers and how they work.

Nope, this is not due to the game design, but to the implementation where they couldn't use large number library, or compute in the logarithm space.

Lot of clicker games have an exponential growth.

 

Citation

It gives advantage only during events where older players are likely to have a higher multiplier, but I am talking about main office. If you accept that it's targeted at events then why the hell would older players need further advantage when they already had advantage before ?

Unless you support the stance that the discrepancy between older and newer players should be greater ? If that's the case, then I have nothing more to say.

But new players will become older players quite quickly...

[Just_To_Complain]

à l’instant, LanceHardwood a dit :

It's an issue of bad game design, namely - consistently inflating numbers by large amounts, specifically due to the use of multipliers and how they work.

How is that due to my type of thinking ?

Citation

It gives advantage only during events where older players are likely to have a higher multiplier, but I am talking about main office. If you accept that it's targeted at events then why the hell would older players need further advantage when they already had advantage before ?

Unless you support the stance that the discrepancy between older and newer players should be greater ? If that's the case I have nothing more to say.

So for you having Felicia is already enough of an advantage ? so a player that played a week and a player that player 8 months are equal in event ? 

Maybe you missed a thing or 2 from what i said but yes, i'm for older player should have advantage compared to newer player, even in event. 
If you want to end this discussion i'm fine with it too, i was just sharing my opinion. 

[LanceHardwood]

8 minutes ago, Just_To_Complain said:

So for you having Felicia is already enough of an advantage ? so a player that played a week and a player that player 8 months are equal in event ? 

Yes, players with Felicia should be equal in events, even more so, players who don't have her should still be able to compete in events instead of being locked out. A player with 1 week of progress will still never be close to the one with 8 months in main office which is the main metric in the game. It will take a new player probably a couple of months to reach the cap and that's only if they get some event girls. Is that not enough of an advantage for you ? There is always a point at which players will become roughly equal due to one cap or another. It's just that in HC the cap is comparatively low due to the huge multipliers introduced. If multipliers were limited to let's say x5 on something and no more, then certain players wouldn't even have reached the cap yet.

[test_anon]

il y a 40 minutes, LanceHardwood a dit :

Yes, players with Felicia should be equal in events, even more so, players who don't have her should still be able to compete in events instead of being locked out.

They can... and i'm currently doing it...

They just have to get her during the event, which is quite easy if you use boosters or if you have already all powers unlocked / with some small perks.

[Just_To_Complain]

il y a 3 minutes, LanceHardwood a dit :

Yes, players with Felicia should be equal in events, even more so, players who don't have her should still be able to compete in events instead of being locked out. A player with 1 week of progress will still never be close to the one with 8 months in main office which is the main metric in the game. It will take a new player probably a couple of months to reach the cap and that's only if they get some event girls. Is that not enough of an advantage for you ? There is always a point at which players will become roughly equal due to one cap or another. It's just that in HC the cap is comparatively low due to the huge multipliers introduced. If multipliers were limited to let's say x5 on something and no more, then certain players wouldn't even have reached the cap yet.

I played a lot of browser rpg games so i'm used to events not being completable by everyone or newbie friendly.
I don't really have more to say, for you being able to increase our office stats or reaching the cap is enough advantage and enhancement shouldn't affect events. 
While i feel like there's no point in increasing our office stats because of the cap so i'm seeking something else to improve so i get advantage somewhere. 

quick question, why are you playing this game ?

Right now i think we can both easily reach the stage cap so all that's left for us to do is to get some affections to unlock some dialogue and art, getting kinkpoints for some art, get enhancements items for events, get ryos for some girls and play events to get some girls right ? 

If enhancement were to be removed from events then all i could see is playing to unlock dialogue and art, all aspect of incremental game just disappear. I would just drop by to get the event girls and there'd be nothing else to do. 

Now that i'm thinking about it I don't even know why i'm still playing this game If i wanted to get more girls/dialogue/art I could just play HH or any eroge. Maybe it's just my hope of a nice update but i don't think there's anything in sight. Anyway i think there's no point in me rambling any longer about my opinion or whatever it was. 

I don't think this has anything to do here so feel free to delete this if it doesn't follow rules. 

[test_anon]

Just I quick update.

I reached 5.7k in the office. Can't do more charm upgrades, still missing 2 powers.

 

I tried to see Spring stats, she seems quite good, but due to the idle->click / click -> idle misconception, she is only equivalent to Bunny.

I explain :

Be X the power of a clicking girl (per clicks), a equivalent idle girl power is ~5X (assuming you click 5 times a second). You see it with Bunny and Mizuku, where power(Bunny)/power(Mizuki) is ~4. The devs rewarded the use of a clicking girl, as you make actions.

The idle -> click and click -> idle took it into account, the click -> idle is 5times more powerful than idle -> click. Because they assumed you click 5 times per seconds...

Meaning that if your multiplier is Y, idle ->click brings you Y, and click -> idle 5Y. But... as you click, 5 times a seconds, idle -> click is in fact 5Y per seconds.

 

So I think you already see where we are headed. If the power of an idle girl is 5X, with idle ->click, her power will by 25XY. If the power of a clicking girl is X (per click), with click -> idle, her power is 5XY.

This means that an idle girl will be 5 times more powerfull. If you take into account auto clicker booster (10 click per seconds), this becomes 10 times more powerfull.

 

Spring is supposed to be ~5 times more powerfull than Bunny. However with the new charms, she become equivalent to Bunny. 5(5X)Y = 25XY with the advantage of being idle. But is 2x less powerfull if auto-clicker booster is used. Plus, with the powers, a lot are clicking-based.

 

To come back at my progress, this means that I will not have a x5 having Spring that could help me going from 6K to 7k to get Felicia as I would have done back in my days. This would have give me ~400 levels, which in turns would helps me gaining 200 more levels + the mojo obtained by reaching 6k +200 levels. I would only miss ~200 levels that I may have done using the 2 powers I still have to unlock.

 

So I am missing a x5 multiplier to get Felicia. I have interesting perks (Rewards x2 and Idle x4) that would be enough to get Felicia, however, I am missing time to unlock them as I have to unlock all the powers to finish the event. I need ~1475 affection to unlock both perks. I could let the last power unlock, get the perks, unlock Felicia, then get affection on the event to get the last power, but that wouldn't be enough as the event rewards only 900 affections.

 

But I am really into the challenge : no more that 4.5 koban spent as the event rewards only 5.5k (i.e. 3 boosters). Using boosters in the office is out of question as I will miss them in the event (x3 rewards, x3 idle, auto-clicker) as I will only have Felicia x3. So I will try to do it without the last power, thus enabling me to unlock the 2 perks I need in the office. If it is still not enough, I would use only 2 boosters in the event, and 1 in the office.

So I let myself until saturday to unlock Felicia, and I will have only short time to finish the event Sunday before 14 O'clock.

 

I started it ~1-day late, that will be hard xD.

I am quite hard on myself as I have ~16k of kobans thanks to the achievements.

Edited June 22, 2020 by test_anon

[Cursed666]

Got 24th craft. Still no Mojo Ring. Took me effing 10 hours (well, basicly whole day) to get that 24B mojo.

On test server got MR as 23rd craft, event complete.

Really this effing RNG and amount of time this takes makes me want to quit this game.

[EdMuse]

Okay, so five days ago I said I was going to do one more reset just for good measure, and then marathon to the end.  Four days ago, I said I was finding the event to be a long, slow slog (clearly, I didn't marathon to the end the day before).  And here I am, still grinding.  At least I'm getting a little farther with each reset, but not by much.  Last reset was at about 3600, which is a far cry from 4200.  So what should I be doing?  I'm concentrating my mojo on Mojo Amulettes and Malenki Chinpo, primarily, but with significant dumps into anything else that will help my idle game.  Got Felicia fully enhanced, and both Mani and Keira (Sex Tape Souvenir lvl. 175) enhanced to level 8000.  Honestly, I really thought I'd be done by now.

Anyone who wants to chime in with a "Here's what you do..." would be welcome.

[Cursed666]

@EdMuse

Got Mojo Ring yet?

[EdMuse]

@Cursed666 No, but I play an idle game, so I don't really use it, anyway.  In the office, for instance, I've literally got it on level 1, while Sex Tape Souvenir is on level 581.  And my fastest speed run to max stage in the office is 13 minutes.  I've always wondered, though, if bumping Mojo Ring up would also up my click-to-idle rate from Sex Tape Souvenir.

Right now, I've got 18 crafts, so I'm pretty close to the point of diminishing returns, where I figure I should be dumping mojo into the crafts I already have.  My next craft will cost 481M, while my next reset will probably bring about 6B, so that's a pretty significant expense, especially with no guarantee of getting something useful, right?

ETA: Worst part is that it's looking like my next reset, when I get up in the morning, probably won't bring in much more than my last one did.

ETA^2: That seems to be a no on dumping mojo into Mojo Ring boosting your click-to-idle from Sex Tape Souvenir.  Bumped it up from lvl. 1 to lvl. 333 in the office, and my idle ! didn't change.

Edited June 23, 2020 by EdMuse

[Cursed666]

2 minutes ago, EdMuse said:

@Cursed666 No, but I play an idle game, so I don't really use it, anyway. 

No wonder you cant finish an event.

Although 13min max stage without MR sounds kinda impressive, so maybe I dont know what Im talking about.

This is my 'before last' push. I didnt had MR at this point. Used Felicia idle to get there (dont have click girl on test server).

After getting those 138B mojo got MR as 23rd craft for 24B mojo. dumped rest into it. 

And right after that I went for my last run:

Basicly +200 levels in half the time.

[EdMuse]

5 minutes ago, Cursed666 said:

Basicly +200 levels in half the time.

And you're playing as an idle game, hunh?  Hunh.  So strange, since like I said, I just tried dumping a bunch of mojo into Mojo Ring in the office, and it didn't seem to make any difference at all in my idle !.  Maybe I'll try another speed run to max stage see if that's accurate.

[Cursed666]

1 minute ago, EdMuse said:

And you're playing as an idle game, hunh?  Hunh.  So strange, since like I said, I just tried dumping a bunch of mojo into Mojo Ring in the office, and it didn't seem to make any difference at all in my idle !.  Maybe I'll try another speed run to max stage see if that's accurate.

Mojo ring does nothing for your idle 'dmg'. It just gives massive click.

And 'click game' I play is basicly: come to PC every 40 minutes and do mad clicking for 1min20sec.

Last post made me realize I had easier time grinding mojo with just Idle Felicia, then I have with Lyka Click-to-Idle. Maybe I am overvaluing usefulness of click girls + STS...

[EdMuse]

@Cursed666 -- So your method is to use all of Felicia's power through your idle-to-click conversion?  Interesting, since I'm really doing very little of that sort of thing in the opposite direction.  In fact, not having Mojo Ring at all in the event, I don't even know why I just bothered getting Keira up to her to level 8000, just to get that enhancement working.  Must be tired.

Trying to do that speed run, with Mojo Ring at 1.01k%, but I just got the frickin' memory leak error!  Stopped the clock, though, while I refresh.  We'll see if I can still get an accurate representation....

[EdMuse]

And there it is: speed run to max level in about 13:40, with Mojo Ring at level 504, but without a single click.  So yes, you're right, Mojo Ring doesn't do anything for your idle, even with my click-to-idle at 5.82k%.  So I guess my best option is just to do what I've been doing, inching along with each reset.  Think my next move will be to dump a bunch of mojo into Mojo Hotstones, since what really stops me is when I can't get through a boss level without a Manly Sweat power-up.

[Cursed666]

1 hour ago, EdMuse said:

@Cursed666 -- So your method is to use all of Felicia's power through your idle-to-click conversion? 

Pretty sure thats how everyone does it.

Im wondering: that 13minutes till max stage run - are you leveling up Felicia or Keira for this?

And how long it takes with the other girl?

[LanceHardwood]

2 hours ago, EdMuse said:

And you're playing as an idle game, hunh? 

If you want to win the event you can't afford to play an idle game. Due to how everything works Mojo Ring is mandatory in any event. You don't have to click all the time, but it's good to activate all skills and click while money/idle multipliers are active. Unfortunately there's no way for events to be completely idle. For the main office you've figured out something but it is still much faster using mojo ring and clicking/activating skills.