Moderator Ol Sheriff Joe Posted June 2, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 2, 2018 il y a 32 minutes, Tatouf Métouf a dit : Global Presentation PVP 2 ( Kinkoids ) Traduction : Leagues System This feature is especially aimed at competitive PVP players. For 2 weeks, 100 players will fight against each other in a big one each for himself. Each player will be able to choose his opponents and face them up to 3 times during the 2 weeks (thus 297 fights in all). The one who wins the most fight will be promoted to a higher league where the rewards will be even greater. For a level 100 player, the rewards will range from 300 kobans to 200,000 coins up to 1500 Kobans and 1M of currency. Please remember that these numbers are still subject to change. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think that given the rewards, some will not hesitate to use this for dishonest purposes. In that case, there will be possibilities of abuse, yes. If you can choose your opponent, then hat you do with your team will matter... Until then, nope, nada, niet... nothing... Just free chocolates for my nice opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthugha Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Well, in that case you should also be worried about kobans used to refresh opponents, because that's an unfair advantage as well. You will never win against the players buying kobans and using them to get on the top of the leaderboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Ol Sheriff Joe Posted June 2, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 2, 2018 il y a 45 minutes, dirty harry a dit : There are thousands of active players. I'm sure there is a group that deliberately loose fights now to get as low on the ranking as possible. So when the leagues start they can make huge jumps in ranking. I can think of other strategies also. You'll simply have to accept that with so many players each and every strategy you can think of will be played out. Whether you think it is fair or not. I tried that... but sooner or later, if you keep winning, you climb in the ladder... no way out except by losing all the time, which is a bit pointless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatouf Métouf Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 il y a 9 minutes, CopyBoop a dit : @Tatouf Métouf So you are worried about how to stop people with multiple accounts from using their alternative accounts to boost their main account and how to stop people from forming alliances or teams to boost each other after PvP v2? Listen, with PvP v1 choosing to have a weaker team is not cheating because the person with the losing team does not gain anything from having the other person win. However I do agree that in PvP v2 using multiple accounts and teaming up might become a problem. That's exactly it, with the arrival of leagues and guilds later it will become a problem and that's why we draw attention to it;) Currently this is not a problem but must see this in the future and developers do something to prevent it from being possible to use it to win the leagues later. So it seems good to me to lose or earn points even when you are attacked. And to ban multi-accounts and punish that severely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoyoHH Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) We're talking about two different things. The topic of this discussion a multi-player cooperative strategy, titled the "Non-Defensive Pact". It is intended for and being used for the current game model. In it, players intentionally weaken their battle team when they are not actively playing, allowing for other players to benefit from easy wins and easy rewards. There is no penalty for anyone because there is no current competitive pvp environment. Absolutely nobody is suggesting that this pact would carry on in the event that pvp did become competitive. If and when a league system is implemented, and rising in the ranks competitively against your opponents becomes necessary, than the Non-Defensive Pact will end. Nobody in their right mind would argue for this once the league system/pvp competitiveness is implemented. Arguing against this pact now because of something that might happen in the future is ridiculous. That being said, a completely separate topic is that of multiple accounts. If a single player creates multiple accounts, specifically for the purpose of battling them against each other, that's a little different. Not a lot different, but a little. Under the current system, this is completely allowable as far as I am aware. It would be difficult to maintain, however, as the "winning" account would continuously rise in mojo, while the "losing" accounts would drop. It would be hard to keep these accounts all within the same competitive pool for any duration. I say if a player wants to put in the time and effort to do this, more power to them. They aren't hurting anyone else. Once the leagues are implemented, however, things change a bit. A player using multiple accounts to farm victories over themselves is now hurting other players. They aren't just gaining rewards, they are now preventing other players from gaining rewards in the league (currently, a player using this type of advantage takes nothing away from anyone else). We've seen win-farming exploits in other games, and it can be very damaging. Whether this tactic will be widespread due to the time/effort necessary will be interesting to see. I think the devs should have it on their radar. Regardless, the future league system and potential use of multiple accounts has absolutely nothing to do with the current multi-player Non-Defensive Pact and belongs in a different discussion. Edited June 2, 2018 by YoyoHH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoyoHH Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 58 minutes ago, Tatouf Métouf said: I do not speak English well, I speak French, so if the words I choose do not express perfectly what I want to express, please excuse me. Yeah, the whole "I do not speak English well", while normally a valid excuse, doesn't fly here, my friend. You said "I doubt that it was expected that players do organized cheat". Then, in the same post, you said "it is a lack of respect for the players who do not cheat". Granted, your English is not perfect, but you clearly used the word "cheat" twice. Chthugha then posted "It's not cheating when it's allowed by the game". This is an excellent point, which counters your argument. Your response was "I did not say that it is cheating". You didn't say you used the wrong word. You said you didn't say it. Well, you clearly did. I pointed out that you did, and your response was to state that you do not speak English well. English is obviously not your first language, and I respect your effort at communicating on an English forum. You're doing a hell of a lot better than I would do on the French forum. You made a weak point. Chthugha made a good point. You backtracked your words, then blamed the language when called out on it. In any language, the words you use are clearly visible for others to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatouf Métouf Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) I did not mean it was cheating. This is in French what I wanted to express if someone can translate it: Je ne dis pas que c'est de la triche, mais c'est assimilé a de la triche étant donné que c'est exploiter une faille du système, c'est ce qu'on appelle du Glitch. Tout simplement c'est une faille qui posera problème quand les ligues et les guildes arriveront. Et il faudra que les développeurs se penche sur le problème et qu'ils fassent en sortent que cela ne soit pas possible de tricher en utilisant cette faille. Mon but est de mettre le doigt sur quelques chose qui n'était pas visiblement détectable facilement et qui n'était surement pas prévu par les développeurs du jeu. Edited June 2, 2018 by Tatouf Métouf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoyoHH Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) Google translate is your friend. English translation: "I'm not saying it's cheating, but it's cheating because it's a flaw in the system, it's called Glitch. Quite simply this is a loophole that will be a problem when leagues and guilds arrive. And it will be necessary for the developers to look into the problem and that they come out that it is not possible to cheat using this flaw. My goal is to put my finger on something that was not easily detectable easily and that was probably not planned by the developers of the game." It's definitely not a glitch. The game is working as intended. If it is a flaw in the system (which is subjective), it is one of a dozen flaws in a game that has several mechanics that don't make logical sense. As far as it being a problem "when leagues and guilds arrive", nobody is disputing that point. And if you read my post above, I clearly point out that everyone will stop doing this once leagues arrive. And leagues haven't arrived yet, so it is currently irrelevant. Obviously, when leagues arrive the developers will need to address the problem of win-farming using multiple accounts. Again, nobody is disagreeing. However, it is absolutely not a problem right now. Your argument makes no more sense in French than it does in English. And by the way, your French translates literally into "it's cheating because...". You can't say "I'm not saying it's cheating" and then say "but it's cheating" in the same sentence. Edited June 2, 2018 by YoyoHH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatouf Métouf Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 il y a une heure, YoyoHH a dit : Google translate is your friend. English translation: "I'm not saying it's cheating, but it's cheating because it's a flaw in the system, it's called Glitch. Quite simply this is a loophole that will be a problem when leagues and guilds arrive. And it will be necessary for the developers to look into the problem and that they come out that it is not possible to cheat using this flaw. My goal is to put my finger on something that was not easily detectable easily and that was probably not planned by the developers of the game." It's definitely not a glitch. The game is working as intended. If it is a flaw in the system (which is subjective), it is one of a dozen flaws in a game that has several mechanics that don't make logical sense. As far as it being a problem "when leagues and guilds arrive", nobody is disputing that point. And if you read my post above, I clearly point out that everyone will stop doing this once leagues arrive. And leagues haven't arrived yet, so it is currently irrelevant. Obviously, when leagues arrive the developers will need to address the problem of win-farming using multiple accounts. Again, nobody is disagreeing. However, it is absolutely not a problem right now. Your argument makes no more sense in French than it does in English. And by the way, your French translates literally into "it's cheating because...". You can't say "I'm not saying it's cheating" and then say "but it's cheating" in the same sentence. If I did not use Google trad it's because it does not translate correctly as I would like. Because the French language is subtle, it has nuances difficult to describe in English. I'm not saying it's cheating, I say it looks like it. It's not quite the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign RHB Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tatouf Métouf said: I did not mean it was cheating. This is in French what I wanted to express if someone can translate it: Je ne dis pas que c'est de la triche, mais c'est assimilé a de la triche étant donné que c'est exploiter une faille du système, c'est ce qu'on appelle du Glitch. Tout simplement c'est une faille qui posera problème quand les ligues et les guildes arriveront. Et il faudra que les développeurs se penche sur le problème et qu'ils fassent en sortent que cela ne soit pas possible de tricher en utilisant cette faille. Mon but est de mettre le doigt sur quelques chose qui n'était pas visiblement détectable facilement et qui n'était surement pas prévu par les développeurs du jeu. I like a challenge as much as I dislike google translations. Hope my detrimental knowledge of the French language can do you just. Is this what you tried to communicate? Je ne dis pas que c'est de la triche, mais c'est assimilé a de la triche étant donné que c'est exploiter une faille du système, c'est ce qu'on appelle du Glitch. I'm not saying it is cheating, but it is amounting to cheating when you exploit a fault of the system, which one could call a Glitch. (not calling it cheating but subtle use of the word) Tout simplement c'est une faille qui posera problème quand les ligues et les guildes arriveront. Put simply it is a fault that will pose a problem when the leagues and gildes will arrive. Et il faudra que les développeurs se penche sur le problème et qu'ils fassent en sortent que cela ne soit pas possible de tricher en utilisant cette faille. And it falls to the developers to look at the problem and they need to sort it so it is not possible to cheat utilising this fault. (here you DO call it cheating) Mon but est de mettre le doigt sur quelques chose qui n'était pas visiblement détectable facilement et qui n'était surement pas prévu par les développeurs du jeu. My goal is to put the finger on something that wasn't easily detectable and surely wasn't foreseen/previewed by the developers of the game. This is just a translation. I'm not agreeing with you. Edited June 2, 2018 by dirty harry 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoyoHH Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Fair enough. So we all agree it is not cheating, it is not a glitch, and it is not an exploit. It could possibly be considered poor game design, which is common all over this game. It is not a problem now and hurts no one. It might possibly become a problem in the future, but the Non-Defensive Pact will stop occurring the moment leagues arrive, anyway. So what the hell are we even talking about? There is literally no legitimate argument against this in any language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatouf Métouf Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Il y a 6 heures, YoyoHH a dit : Fair enough. So we all agree it is not cheating, it is not a glitch, and it is not an exploit. It could possibly be considered poor game design, which is common all over this game. It is not a problem now and hurts no one. It might possibly become a problem in the future, but the Non-Defensive Pact will stop occurring the moment leagues arrive, anyway. So what the hell are we even talking about? There is literally no legitimate argument against this in any language. Why not organize challenging games where players will compete in various events to score points for his country. And at the end the players of the winning country or countries win rewards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masters Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tatouf Métouf said: Why not organize challenging games where players will compete in various events to score points for his country. And at the end the players of the winning country or countries win rewards? That sounds a lot like what Clubs/Leagues. More importantly, it is not something players on their own can do. For one thing, we cannot access country listings other than our own. WE *can* see a player's country ranking on profile pages, but that is not a *list* and who is going to bother compiling them? Second, we players cannot reward each other. The closest to that we can do is to by making ourselves weak enough so other players earn winnings off of us. Which has zero negative impact against ourselves. By throwing a fight we lose nothing. Except perhaps for Mojo rankings not Mojo itself, just our position in the ranking list), which since we cannot choose who to fight from the Tower anymore makes it meaningless. Mojo has become an arbitrary number. Finally, it does nothing to help or hurt Cashers. Players who can afford Kobans as *they* need it will always have better rankings anyway. Buying Market refreshes, Boosters, refreshing Energy, combat points, Arena, etc. ALREADY the system is IMBALANCED in favor of spenders. So who really cares if I throw PVP battles? Hell, EVEN IF I WERE TO LOSE STUFF by throwing PvP battles, of what concern is it to anyone else? ISN'T that MY CHOICE? You know, choice… that thing players tend to say is severely limited in this game? And cries of "players could unfairly boost alternate accounts" is meaningless when considering that some players can boost accounts with their wallets. You have an opinion. That's fair. But very few in this thread agree with it. Edited June 3, 2018 by Masters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DHarry Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I agree with the man about it not being the idea if pvp to deliberately “lose“. Even if it doesn“t hurt you. You“re supposed to want to win it all. But I do not consider this cheating. Cheating is gaining an unfair advantage or winning by doing something that is not allowed. If you are near the top of the table, I don“t see why you want to do this pact as you would be helping others getting points. Other than that, you have nothing to lose from being a social person. Though I doubt the value of the whole thing as the win will just make you lose again later to a stronger oponent later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CopyBoop Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 6 hours ago, Tatouf Métouf said: Why not organize challenging games where players will compete in various events to score points for his country. And at the end the players of the winning country or countries win rewards? That sounds like a very bad idea for players in small countries or players in countries with few active players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthugha Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 3 hours ago, CopyBoop said: That sounds like a very bad idea for players in small countries or players in countries with few active players. Well, he would like that because France is dominant country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatouf Métouf Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I did not think about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Ol Sheriff Joe Posted June 8, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 8, 2018 Wow! Such a shitty PVP day today... Apart from @dirty harry and @Loustic who were great enough to be non defensive, all the matchups i got were against guys 10k+, 12 lvls+ stronger than me... I stand at a 50/50 ratio today... which is.... abysmal... i feel so sad, not being able to satisfy my girls in the arena... (not to mention, winning nothing...) So thank you guys, for being great non offensives!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthugha Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 15 minutes ago, Joe-da-G said: Wow! Such a shitty PVP day today... Apart from @dirty harry and @Loustic who were great enough to be non defensive, all the matchups i got were against guys 10k+, 12 lvls+ stronger than me... I stand at a 50/50 ratio today... which is.... abysmal... i feel so sad, not being able to satisfy my girls in the arena... (not to mention, winning nothing...) So thank you guys, for being great non offensives!! I've been flying through the rankings. Gained 400 places in 2 days so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign RHB Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 Il y a 11 heures, Joe-da-G a dit : Wow! Such a shitty PVP day today... Apart from @dirty harry and @Loustic who were great enough to be non defensive, all the matchups i got were against guys 10k+, 12 lvls+ stronger than me... I stand at a 50/50 ratio today... which is.... abysmal... i feel so sad, not being able to satisfy my girls in the arena... (not to mention, winning nothing...) So thank you guys, for being great non offensives!! Glad to reciprocate the favour. I hope you get as much mojo from me as I get from you. You're soaring in that table. I got these just now, never heard of them or seen them be4. hope they're not endemic. but then again apparantly nobody else knows too. Ok. undone double piccing, but now it's all backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign RHB Posted June 8, 2018 Share Posted June 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Joe-da-G said: Wow! Such a shitty PVP day today... Apart from @dirty harry and @Loustic who were great enough to be non defensive, all the matchups i got were against guys 10k+, 12 lvls+ stronger than me... I stand at a 50/50 ratio today... which is.... abysmal... i feel so sad, not being able to satisfy my girls in the arena... (not to mention, winning nothing...) So thank you guys, for being great non offensives!! forget it. It will probably get deleted. Watch for my post in chit chat. And good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Ol Sheriff Joe Posted June 9, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2018 Il y a 8 heures, dirty harry a dit : forget it. It will probably get deleted. Watch for my post in chit chat. And good luck. Why would that be?... In fact, i'm afraid it's me climbing the Mojo ladder that fast that explains my current adversaries... There's nobody at my level around me... (they're all lvl 210+...)... Life is hard at the top.. As for you, as you are probably not far behind, they're probably isn't anyone at your lvl range.. at all. Hence the bots you've encountered... Lucky you! Now the question is: how do you LOSE levels ?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign RHB Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Joe-da-G said: Hence the bots you've encountered... Lucky you! Now the question is: how do you LOSE levels ?... So those are bots? Looks to me like built-in non defenders. And if, at your level, you need to learn how to lose mojo, you've led a charmed life. Edited June 9, 2018 by dirty harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Ol Sheriff Joe Posted June 9, 2018 Moderator Share Posted June 9, 2018 Climbed up 3000 mojos in the last week... Now, everybody around is lvl 210+... so, either i win (rarely) : +32 or i lose, most often : -1... How can i recover my safely lower place? i feel like a peapod in front of a forest?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign RHB Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 7 minutes ago, Joe-da-G said: Climbed up 3000 mojos in the last week... Now, everybody around is lvl 210+... so, either i win (rarely) : +32 or i lose, most often : -1... How can i recover my safely lower place? i feel like a peapod in front of a forest?... We are still in the same pool. I could give up the non-defensive stance for a while and put some strong girls forward. If you fight them with weak ones you could lose a few mojo. Would that help? Funny. A non-non-defensive pact. Is this still on topic or should we move this to chit-chat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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