Patch Notes 12/12/18 Discussion

[Sovereign RHB]

I haven't heard anyone comment on this:

Event pachinko will be available for revivals (at the moment)

So does this mean that new event girls are still available in epic pachinko? I think Hotless and bananajoy would like that as they have all the others already.

 

And what about the girls that move to epic pachinko after an event?

Is it so that they are available on bosses during the event, move to epic pachinko after the event and move again to event pachinko by the first revival?

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Also only slightly commented on in this thread is the revision of the xp gains.

A little while ago the whole structure of how you gain xps was changed with the introduction of the leagues. Let us give credit where credit is due; apparantly it worked out a bit different than projected so now we can gain a bit more xps outside the leagues, especially for lower lvl players which is a good thing because the leagues are dominated by a few players that are too strong to beat.

In order to make the game competitive you need variation in ways of progression. When I started this game a year ago top lvl players were about lvl 180.

I am lvl 283 now and top lvl is 349 so the gap has been closed from 180 to 70. At least 10  to 15 lvls of that was achieved by pvp in the arena. The way the leagues are constructed now  the higher lvl players who are stronger an thus win more, gain more xps as well so lower lvl players can never catch up. Even if those higher lvl players ignore the arena.

I'd like to see much more variation in ways of progression. Such as side quests in the story mode which you can take or leave but which will gain you extra xps or .......... but I'm meandering of topic here so I'll stop.

 

 

[Mightk]

Love to love you

[johntrine]

2 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

It was hamful for the player because we desired to continue providing new girls in the epic pachinko regularly and yet we understood that for new player just arriving in the game, it would feel demotivating to see that there is more than 20 girls next to the event ones to win.

i have 30 girls in epic pachinco right now and i don't feel demotivated. infact the one or twice, i do 1x spin during events in hopes that at best i might get an event girl and at worse i might get an epic girl (of course in the course of the time i've been playing it's yet to work.)

 

7 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

So it was required for us to develop another pachinko.

 

NO ONE ASKED FOR IT!!!

 

7 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

And competiting with yourself is bad because it means that if you improve one of the two feature that are competing with each opther, you are diminishing the other one, consequently, you are hurting the return on the time invested on this feature.

while your logical argument is sound, you you could make it high risk high reward. and yes, i see that that's what you're trying to do. except it fails BECAUSE we have no idea of how good the chance of that reward is, we can only see that RISK. you say that the chance of getting girls is grater and i agree, it could be, but we don't know. like i stated before, maybe before it was 0.0000009% and now it's 0.09%, that's a drastic increase than before but the odds are still shit in this example.

 

11 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

Regarding the chances of Drop, we do not desire to display them as we have the experience that displaying them will not improve the experience for most people, quite the contrary

how? are we going to use those kobans on someother game? is there other games on the internet that use the digital currency of kobans? NO! we can only use them here. showing the odds is just gonna make us go, well shit, the odds are garbage in epic but less garbage in event, maybe i'll try there aaaaaaand all my kobans are gone instead of well i don't know the odds so i'll just try once aaaaaand the kobans are gone.... see the example? IT CHANGES NOTHING... we can't take kobans elsewhere, we can't convert it to real cash, the economy from here, stays here and kobans can only be used for, like what, 5 or 6 things and the pachinco IS the MAIN thing it's used for.

[fap.titans.gra]

2 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

Regarding the chances of Drop, we do not desire to display them as we have the experience that displaying them will not improve the experience for most people, quite the contrary.

I understand this because everyone has different expectations. For some 5% it's a lot, for others 50% is a lot,  but you can do some amount. For example, 3x Event Pachinko and have a guaranteed girl, the same as it is with 10x Epic Pachinko. 
otherwise I feel a bit cheated, because on the current rules, as you already have all the girls in the Epic Pachinko, 10x Epic Pachinko during the event always gives you the girl from the event. You know what you pay for and you know how much. A new Event Pachinko is a gamble  without the rules of a guaranteed girl.

Of course, I do not know everything and I did not see it so it's hard to say whether it pays or not, but I think all players play pachinko for girls not for equipment, books or gifts, so this is the only thing that counts.
I really like how you did 10x normal pachinko = legendary equipment,  although the price went up twice, but finally something guaranteed and can be used.

[fap.titans.gra]

7 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

There is multiple type of player's profiles that plays our game, we considered that this change is positive for most players. Escpecially for the new players.

Our point is that these different profiles react differently to the display of their chances and consequently, we decided to not display them.

 

@fap.titans.gra, your point is totally fair, yet the "garanteed girl every 3 spins" would have a cost too. A smaller chance for the individual spins, for example, or a higher price.

5400 kobans is the price for "a girl guaranteed" within a huge range of girls, so to keep it balanced, to have "a girl guaranteed" in a way smaller range, the price would go up. As we desired to keep this new pachinko available for most players, we wanted to avoid an increase of price. So we needed to do a choice between the guaranteed and the price.

Ok now I understand and this is some information with which I can agree. In the end it is for the good of the game.

[Helix]

il y a 29 minutes, Kinkoid a dit :

Regarding the chances of Drop, we do not desire to display them as we have the experience that displaying them will not improve the gameplay experience for most people, quite the contrary.

Bullshit. People have been asking you about this for as long as I remember beeing on this forum, on both english and french sides. I have yet to meet someone who doesn't want to know the drop rates. Knowing the drop rates allows you to take decisions based on calculated risks, unlike the blind gambling we are doing now. There is no scenario where not knowing the risk is better than knowing it. And you can"t convince me otherwise.

[fap.titans.gra]

2 minutes ago, Helix said:

Bullshit. People have been asking you about this for as long as I remember beeing on this forum, on both english and french sides. I have yet to meet someone who doesn't want to know the drop rates. Knowing the drop rates allows you to take decisions based on calculated risks, unlike the blind gambling we are doing now. There is no scenario where not knowing the risk is better than knowing it. And you can"t convince me otherwise. 

you probably did not understand the message.

people will almost always say that the drop is too low, even giving a drop rate of 75% would quickly get used to and they said it's too low after some time.
Not giving information about the drop. Gives players an impression and is good or bad depending on the people.  I do not say it is good or bad. I also do not like gambling and prefer to recalculate everything, but I understand that.
Giving a drop chance can end badly. I can already see spam on the forum that the drop is too small,  you have to enjoy what you have. And unfortunately, most players want a lot more and will always want more.

[DisgustingMarsupial]

Just now, fap.titans.gra said:

you probably did not understand the message.

people will almost always say that the drop is too low, even giving a drop rate of 75% would quickly get used to and they said it's too low after some time.
Not giving information about the drop. Gives players an impression and is good or bad depending on the people.  I do not say it is good or bad. I also do not like gambling and prefer to recalculate everything, but I understand that.
Giving a drop chance can end badly. I can already see spam on the forum that the drop is too small,  you have to enjoy what you have. And unfortunately, most players want a lot more and will always want more.

As you even mention, we already have people complaining the unknown drop rate is too low. Saying what they are won't change the minds of people who are going to complain no matter what but it will help a lot of community members who want to know what they're getting into. The only logical reason to be hiding drop rates is so that they can be changed at will for any reason and not tell the consumer. It pushes the game further and further into gambling. 

[Habi]

42 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

There is multiple type of player's profiles that plays our game, we considered that this change is positive for most players. Especially for the new players.

Our point is that these different profiles react differently to the display of their chances and consequently, we decided to not display them.

 

@fap.titans.gra, your point is totally fair, yet the "garanteed girl every 3 spins" would have a cost too. A smaller chance for the individual spins, for example, or a higher price.

5400 kobans is the price for "a girl guaranteed" within a huge range of girls, so to keep it balanced, to have "a girl guaranteed" in a way smaller range, the price would go up. As we desired to keep this new pachinko available for most players, we wanted to avoid an increase of price. So we needed to do a choice between the guaranteed and the price.

but i think you offend a lot of long time players and especially the patrons and other big spenders who already emptied the epic pachinko. for those it would be awesome if event girls would be present in BOTH pachinkos simultaneously. that way also new players could take their risk on what girl they get for a guaranteed price vs guaranteed event girl on no girl guarantee at all. let the players choose which pachinko they want to use!

on a sidenote: thanks for the responses and clarifications. please keep up the forum activity!

Edited December 11, 2018 by Habi

[fap.titans.gra]

17 minutes ago, DisgustingMarsupial said:

As you even mention, we already have people complaining the unknown drop rate is too low. Saying what they are won't change the minds of people who are going to complain no matter what but it will help a lot of community members who want to know what they're getting into. The only logical reason to be hiding drop rates is so that they can be changed at will for any reason and not tell the consumer. It pushes the game further and further into gambling. 

 It may be so, I'm not saying that it is not. but knowing what is the drop you can not change it?  Instead of 4% do 3% or 5% ,
if it's only % then you can not measure it well. one player drop after 1 try and another one after 99 try, in total everyone had a drop of 2%.
some have bad luck and others are lucky.

Edited December 11, 2018 by fap.titans.gra

[johntrine]

44 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

There is multiple type of player's profiles that plays our game, we considered that this change is positive for most players. Especially for the new players.

Our point is that these different profiles react differently to the display of their chances and consequently, we decided to not display them.

crazy idea, how about we get to have that option and those that don't want it can turn it off....

 

4 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

Displaying the drop rate will make some users happy, yet other users will feel demotivated or infuriated by the chances (whatever they are) and we made the choose to focus on these players.

pls point me to these players so i can ask them myself how that would affect their gameplay. also, i'm pretty sure countries in eu have to (or soon) display odds in the ingame gambling that uses real life currency in some form so you eventually HAVE to do it.

[Helix]

il y a 23 minutes, fap.titans.gra a dit :

people will almost always say that the drop is too low

People will complain no matter what, they complain now and they will do it if the drop rate is known. The only difference is that you know what you are getting into, and the only one to blame is you if you decide to spend kobans.

 

il y a 6 minutes, Kinkoid a dit :

The chance of obtaining a girl from the epic pachinko hasn't changed since the launch of the game. Just the quantity of girls available in it, so the chance of getting a specific girl has changed.

You can't expect us to fully believe you when you refused to acknowledge the bug of boss girls drop for months, or when dozens of players testified that the PE was giving them mostly permanant girls ineasted of event girls even though you said their (unknown) drop rate was higher. Tell me why should I believe you know.

 

Also I really want to see those players who are happy with unkown drop rates, I want to understand the logic behind it.

[Habi]

20 minutes ago, Kinkoid said:

@Habi, it is a tricky situation for us, because what you describe is providing an advantage to the old players : They litterally would be assured to win the event pachinko girls for a specific amount of kobans.
If you add that to other benefices that older players receives (like the early version of affection that was totally at the advantages of ancient players, or just the number of girls they have), it can be overwhelming and it can be a danger for the survival of the game. It is a question of balances between "new" and "older" players.

basically you take away something from people they're used to. no one likes things being taken away. but as i said with my suggestion you also give new players a choice and not only the old players an advantage.

another point: i think there are many of us who like guarantees. the new event pachinko only lets us gamble and as long as the dropchance isn't 100% there will always be a few players totally fucked up by rng. (i consider myself being one of them). i could live with a guaranteed event girl at like 10% higher cost (or round it to 6000 kobans for a nice number) but it shouldn't be more. i still consider it unfair versus even older players than myself because they got all the old girls for a fixed 5400 kobans vs maybe 6000. but it would be a bearable rate.

[Blain]

It's obviously not sinking into Kinkoid's head that the main complaint of players, new and old, is not knowing the drop rates. He hasn't budged on this since I asked him to disclose the rates in February.

With Chthugha stepping away from moderating, I wonder if that means the Kinkoid team will be more present on the English forum. They can pick up the load of answering the most common question/complaint that players post on their English forum. I'm getting tired of saying the same answer about "the devs don't disclose the drop rates", and knowing that information isn't satisfying the poster's desire to know the odds . I'm just a player, so I'll stop helping to answer that question, and watch the English forum as a disinterested observer.

Side note: I wonder what effect this will have on the club system. Seems the club system will be more focused on the girls in our harems, so maybe this will end up being a way to increase the cost of acquiring girls. Maybe not. Time will tell.

[Hotless]

I think the reason that kinkoid created event pachinko is just to put the event girls (who have limited duration to get them) into a different pachinko than the epic one while epic pachinko will stay as it is with all of it's permanent girls.

If i am correct then the only correct action i see fit (that benefits both old and new players) is to make x1 and x10 spins (with the x10 spins the girl is guaranteed of course) that cost 540 and 5400 kobans respectively, in other words both pachinkos will be exactly the same and now that i think of it with this change the pachinkos don't compete and they complete one another.

[Mythos]

1 hour ago, Habi said:

but i think you offend a lot of long time players and especially the patrons and other big spenders who already emptied the epic pachinko. for those it would be awesome if event girls would be present in BOTH pachinkos simultaneously. that way also new players could take their risk on what girl they get for a guaranteed price vs guaranteed event girl on no girl guarantee at all. let the players choose which pachinko they want to use!

1 hour ago, Kinkoid said:

@Habi, it is a tricky situation for us, because what you describe is providing an advantage to the old players : They litterally would be assured to win the event pachinko girls for a specific amount of kobans.
If you add that to other benefices that older players receives (like the early version of affection that was totally at the advantages of ancient players, or just the number of girls they have), it can be overwhelming and it can be a danger for the survival of the game. It is a question of balances between "new" and "older" players.

I can be considered "new player" regarding Epic Pachinko cause the only permanent pachinko girls I have are the ones I obtained during Epic Events: never tried a single spin of Epic Pachinko. Me and a lot of other "new players" here support the proposal of Habi, simply because a lot of us prefer to try for an event girl, even between a lot of permanent pachinko girls, and have a guaranteed girl anyway as a consolation prize than try an indefinite number of times at 1800 Kobans each try.

Also don't see the problem to give "old players" the "advantage" you are talking about, cause they earned it by spending a lot of Kobans before! If not to let you squeeze more Kobans and therefore money from them.

Last but not least: do you really think that new players have that many Kobans to spend in an indefinite number of tries at 1800 Kobans each?

Edited December 11, 2018 by Mythos

[DisgustingMarsupial]

57 minutes ago, Mythos said:

I can be considered "new player" regarding Epic Pachinko cause the only permanent pachinko girls I have are the ones I obtained during Epic Events: never tried a single spin of Epic Pachinko. Me and a lot of other "new players" here support the proposal of Habi, simply because a lot of us prefer to try for an event girl, even between a lot of permanent pachinko girls, and have a guaranteed girl anyway as a consolation prize than try an indefinite number of times at 1800 Kobans each try.

Also don't see the problem to give "old players" the "advantage" you are talking about, cause they earned it by spending a lot of Kobans before! If not to let you squeeze more Kobans and therefore money from them.

Last but not least: do you really think that new players have that many Kobans to spend in an indefinite number of tries at 1800 Kobans each?

As someone who's also a "new player" when it comes to Pachinko, I only have Skytte and not even 1 event pachinko girls, I have no problem getting a regular pachinko exclusive girl instead of an event girl. They are all part of the demoralizing 195 girls I'm missing, not including the 5 or so custom girls that were exclusive to big patrons which I have absolutely no chance of ever getting. 

I don't mind at all that veterans players have it much easier than me when it comes to getting event girls, winning at PvP, giving their girls affection/XP or generating harem income way above anything I could ever dream of. They've played/spent way more than myself and a lot of people. 

[Valgo]

I would have accept it if the pachinko legendary equipment drop is only a single stats instead of multiple stats. Otherwise it simply isn't worth the risk to go for it.

 

Information is soo vague & the price look soo steep to make it worth the effort. At nutaku, it is already quite painful to even collect 900 koban for 1 guarantee girl, let alone relying on rng.

[Damoncord]

3 hours ago, Kinkoid said:

 

@Habi, it is a tricky situation for us, because what you describe is providing an advantage to the old players : They litterally would be assured to win the event pachinko girls for a specific amount of kobans.
If you add that to other benefices that older players receives (like the early version of affection that was totally at the advantages of ancient players, or just the number of girls they have), it can be overwhelming and it can be a danger for the survival of the game. I is a question of balances between "new" and "older" players.

 

It's not just "New" vs "older" It's more a question on how "Much do people wanna pay?"  I've personally had a streak of 39 failures on single pulls in EP before I stopped doing single pulls.

In the 14 months since I started, I've caught up to the current end of the story, defeated all the bosses and to max their level, and earned ALL their girls.  Then I spent enough money to get all the Epic Pachinko only girls including the ones added every few months, and many of the ones form events in the meantime.  Yeah, we have much better chances at getting the event girls, but that's because we paid kobans to do it. 

I've got 188 max affection girls in my Harem, 27 "normal" girls from bosses, 12 from progressing the story through world 1 to the current end of world 10, 36 from Epic Pachinko, all the 113 others are from the events or Event Pachinkos.

[Badhead]

I actually love the idea of breaking the Event girls out into their own pachinko machine. For example, I wanted Deniz during the Sexy Beast event, but because I still have 30 or so "always available" girls in my Epic Pachinko, my odds of getting Deniz were effectively zero (less than 4% even if I DID get a drop). Putting the event girls in their own machine would give me a much better chance (about 33% if I got a drop).

HOWEVER, the non-guaranteed nature of the drops and the price of the thing has me wary.

If the drop rate is 40%, I will LOVE the Event pachinko. 

If the drop rate is 5%, I will never touch it unless my Epic pachinko is completely empty. And even then, I may opt to save my kobans for future events. 

[Badhead]

Also, I agree that it's totally fine for seasoned players to have a bit of a leg up. 

For example, I see several players who have Flight Attendant, and Ishtar, and Festival Geekette, who were all attendance rewards before I began playing the game. I accept that they got those characters quite easily and it will be much harder for me to get them, if I even can. But that's their reward for being in the game longer, and I don't begrudge them that. They've earned it. 

[EthanEverhart]

So far from what I'm reading I like everything except :

Event Pachinko girls will not be available in the Epic Pachinko whenever the Event Pachinko is available.

 

[johntrine]

8 minutes ago, Badhead said:

I actually love the idea of breaking the Event girls out into their own pachinko machine. For example, I wanted Deniz during the Sexy Beast event, but because I still have 30 or so "always available" girls in my Epic Pachinko, my odds of getting Deniz were effectively zero (less than 4% even if I DID get a drop). Putting the event girls in their own machine would give me a much better chance (about 33% if I got a drop).

HOWEVER, the non-guaranteed nature of the drops and the price of the thing has me wary.

If the drop rate is 40%, I will LOVE the Event pachinko. 

If the drop rate is 5%, I will never touch it unless my Epic pachinko is completely empty. And even then, I may opt to save my kobans for future events. 

oooooor. another crazy idea... they could you know... just INCREASE THE DROP RATE of event girls IN EPIC PACHINCO during events... but hey... that'll give the old player who can't win more than half of the koban earning competition an advantage. cos we can't spend our energy, we can't win pachinco competition cos normal pachinco is too expensive and ooooh right, they made a competition of points for lvl uping the girls AFTER many OLD players had already max lvled their harem. welp fuck the old player a bit more... they can take it. we have too many advantages already

Edited December 11, 2018 by johntrine

[snowman22]

@Kinkoid, here goes:

• Thanks for the feedback on this topic. Regardless of being happy or sad about the content I appreciate that you are responding. It can be tough dealing with the anger. Chin up.
• I agree the xp payouts needed some adjusting. Not only between old and new players but there are some very bad holes in how xp is allocated in the leagues.
• I think I understand why you will not publish drop rates. Would you consider publishing relative drop rates? I.e. Call Dark Lords drop rate 1.0. Everything else would be some multiple/fraction of a DLDR (Dark Lord Drop Rate). All I really want to do is decide between Gruntt (an event girl with her event drop rate + Gruntt's cash) and say Roko (his regular girls at their drop rate + Roko's cash).
• Event Pachinko. Meh. Hurts some, helps some. If you have a a lot of girls in EP but you really, really want a particular exclusive EP girl this gives you a path to her. I (40 girls in EP) have passed on several pachiko exclusive girls I wanted because there was no real chance of getting them via EPx1 or EPx10. If girls appear in event pachinko and never go into regular pachinko I can see how it would make completionists with empty pachinkos salty. Their cost just went from 5400 to X times 1800. But for most of us: Small plus to meh.
• A little off topic: The event thing in the lower right corner is a really, really great addition and nicely done. Thanks.

Edited December 11, 2018 by snowman22
Correct Kinkoid tag

[Lemus]

5 hours ago, Kinkoid said:

@fap.titans.gra, your point is totally fair, yet the "garanteed girl every 3 spins" would have a cost too. A smaller chance for the individual spins, for example, or a higher price.

5400 kobans is the price for "a girl guaranteed" within a huge range of girls, so to keep it balanced, to have "a girl guaranteed" in a way smaller range, the price would go up. As we desired to keep this new pachinko available for most players, we wanted to avoid an increase of price. So we needed to do a choice between the guaranteed and the price.

Well, do it. Let the price for a guaranteed girl be higher, but there is a reason for this - in the end, one of the girls is legendary and there is no likelihood of getting an ordinary girl who has not yet been taken from the boss. Or if you do not want to scare newbies with a high price tag, just make a limited number of prizes in the new pachinko. For example 10-15. And then, even if all the gods of luck turn away from me, I will know that sooner or later I will get what I want, albeit at a greatly increased price.

The problem with the lack of guarantees is that I clearly understand that there is a possibility that even after spending a lot of attempts, I won’t get anything I need at all. And let the probability of this is not so great, but it is quite real. And it will just ruin my day and completely lower my spirits. And may I know that this is just "bad luck" I will still feel humiliated and robbed. And I definitely do not want such emotions from the game. Therefore, I don’t even want to try such “luck”. We have enough trouble in real life, and I definitely don’t have to frustrate myself when I relax and have fun in an adult online game.