YoyoHH Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) It's really not rocket science. You have players who love the game and artwork and are willing to make purchases to advance their player and acquire more girls. But players are hesitant to use kobans if it doesn't progress their harem (I know I am), and if they do use kobans and get nothing, they are immediately frustrated and regretful (and less likely to buy kobans in the future). The 100% luck-based drop system is pissing off your players and cutting into your revenue. There's a reason players save their kobans for 10x epic pachinko - the guaranteed girl. You want to place event girls on the low-level bosses? Not a problem. This cuts into player revenue if they choose to pursue the girls, which is to the game's advantage. Lower revenue means it takes longer to progress the harem, which means players stay interested. Players can CHOOSE whether to acquire new girls or increase their revenue stream. However, it is the luck-based drop system that's the problem. Players have no idea if or when the new girl will drop, and therefore have no basis to decide whether or not sacrificing revenue is worth it. They're asked to make a choice without the facts, and when that choice backfires, they are understandably angry. The 50 pages of negative feedback on the recent Legendary Event is evidence. You want super low drop rates? Also not a problem. Low drop rates keep people engaged and playing, which is to the game's advantage. But, again, the 100% luck-based model is a motivation killer. Because a low drop rate can mean a quick drop, a long wait, or (God help us) a non-drop, players feel like they've wasted their time if a girl doesn't drop quickly. And they're right, they have. SIMPLE SOLUTION! Place a progress bar on your event girls. Keep your low drop rate and hell, even keep the drop rate secret if you like. But set a GUARANTEE drop point. After 100 fights, 200, 900, whatever. Set a progress bar and let the players see how close they are to a guaranteed drop. Set a different guarantee drop point for different girls if you like. Set some reasonable and set some ludicrously high. Either way, the players will be able to make an informed decision on how to play. Those who then choose to use kobans to get extra fights will at least earn progress towards the new girl and will not waste both their kobans and their revenue opportunity. The girls will be just as hard to get, the new players will still have access to the girls, the senior players will still lose revenue if they choose to increase their harem, and most importantly - everyone is happy. Players are loving the game more than ever because it's fair. Not easy, but FAIR. Developers are happy because people will buy kobans to progress, rather than feeling frustrated that their purchases are wasted. It's the definition of a win-win. Read the feedback on the Legendary event. What you're doing right now is not working. But small changes like the one I've suggested can make all the difference in the world. The Legendary event looks like you've chosen revenue over player satisfaction. And foolishly, because this model will actually lead to long-term revenue loss. You don't have to choose, you can have both. Edited April 6, 2018 by YoyoHH 12 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlusIon Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 29 minutes ago, YoyoHH said: There's a reason players save their kobans for 10x epic pachinko - the guaranteed girl. SIMPLE SOLUTION! Place a progress bar on your event girls. You are absolutely right! the 10x Pachinko is set so expensive with Kobans that players gauge everything against it. It is the only mechanism in the game that gets a girl guaranteed. Spending Kobans on other things only leads to regret and anger when it doesn't pay with a girl drop. So players learn to hoard them or stop buying them. But unfortunately your solution will be a hard sell to the creators. I believe there is a reason they will not tell us the drop rates. I think there are other factors involved other than simply battling the boss. If they want me to start spending Kobans then stop putting so many girls in Epic Pachinko. Every event gets 3 girls into the Epic Pachinko Winnings. So that is where my Kobans are going to go. Maybe put one in the great pachinko? Maybe put one in the Arena for Battle wins? I would even buy one in the market! It would be nicer not to feel like I am passing up on the 3 girls each event in Pachinko. With this latest event SuperGirlzz I spent down my Kobans trying to get some of the event girls. I did not. I cannot complain because I did get other girls, just not the event ones. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberbholt Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) This is other, They should make who pachinko epic drop first the girls of the event and then the rest. It's a fraud to put troll girls or to get ... Lupita or Hikea for you buy more kovans or lose a superwoman and the rest events girls forever Edited April 6, 2018 by saberbholt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlusIon Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 All this does it make players hoard the kobans until they have all available boss girls, then play Pachinko. If they remove the boss girls from Epic Pachinko, then more players would play epic pachinko immediately. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstephens Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 23 minutes ago, PlusIon said: All this does it make players hoard the kobans until they have all available boss girls, then play Pachinko. If they remove the boss girls from Epic Pachinko, then more players would play epic pachinko immediately. Yep! That's exactly what I'm doing. I've played the single epic pachinko 3 maybe 4 times and never won a girl, I've only ever received crap equipment. This is very frustrating and the fact that I might get a girl that I will get anyway through regular run of play/fighting bosses, means I definitely won't be playing pachinko anymore until I know the girl I get is special (not that they are not all special in their own way). I think OP idea of some sort of progress or indication of how far you are away from a drop is a great idea 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisgustingMarsupial Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Honestly, big fan of the progress bar but I think the drop rates should be public knowledge. The devs could easily say the rates are the same as always but then people start hitting that maximum end of the bar a little too often and people start asking questions. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskir Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) I support your idee as well. At "least" make the formula different to the point where someone let´s say has 3 days to gain one event girl. Ok that´s in theory 144 possible fights +/- if you keept your fightingpoints and so on...well now take the sum of 5400 [Kobans (100% aquired girl 10x pachinko game) - {(144 ["free" fights]:20 [one full refill]) = 7,2 x 213} (cost of one full refill)] that´s ~ 3866 or ~ 18 full refills. What do we get: a max number of needed kobans (full refills -> fights) for all event drops by subtracting x from 5400. If you do fight the max possible than it will get at least cheaper than a 10x drop to aquire a girl thanks to a "stop-line". Well I know it´s not perfect but kind of acceptable with some tweaks here and there And no, I do not study maths or the like so my formula looks like shit Edited April 6, 2018 by Kaskir 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantrix Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 All that RNG made me quit WoW Legion, then i wasted a lot of kobans in a 19 single epic pachinko spins with 1 girl dropping from all of them. Then i have spend more than 20euro on the legendary days for refills with absolutely nothing in return... Not a pretty appealing way to convince me to buy additional kobans, to say the least. It goes without saying that i am hoarding all my kobans for the 10x spin now after i finally got all the boss girls. The sheer number of girls in the epic pachinko is completely obliterating any hope of getting a specific event, pachinko exclusive girls alltogether. So i merely gave up on them too. I am happy with the occasional world boss event drops. This is a bad design in a game where people have to be incited to make ingame purchases. I'm not whinig like some people have accused all the unhappy people in the "legendary frustration" poll, i'm giving a constructive feedback based on my 18years of playing games with ingame purchases. Start with WoW, Heroes of the storm, onigiri online, briefly LoL, Guildwars 2, ps3's drakengard series and so on... Ofcourse people would complain wjen they invest a lot of money and get nothing in return while watching so many other players get the reward even without paying. If you see so much negarive emotion concerning a game mechanic then definately there's something wrong with it. And althought forums being a breeding ground for trolling and shitshows it's a comunitymanager's job to read trough all the posts and extract the feedback beneath it. Heck sometimes even enotion can be a feedback in itself, as a game designer ask yourself "how did this part of my game made the players feel?" If the majority of the players were happy with the result great, but the feedback of the minority who felt betrayed should NEVER be thrown away and cinsidered useless "whining", because maybe this minority happens to be the one who had spend a lot of money on the game and brought it's worth to the dev team. If that's the case you are in for a rocky ride in the long run. The players simply will refuse to spend money and i dont need to explain where this leads... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senpai-kun Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 If the developers want to make money, give players value for their money! I'm sorry, but I don't know of anyone who thinks €5 for 600 kobans, which is not even 3 refills of your combat meter, is good value for money. If the developers insist on keeping the drop rate as low as it is, in my opinion a refill should be costing around 100 kobans at MAX. This way, people that buy kobans feel like they at least get some value for their money. Also, the "loot-box" system they have in the Epic Pachinko seems to be annoying a lot of players. Many triple-A games as of late are showing overwhelmingly negative feedback from their players over the implemented "loot-box" systems, yet games that let you buy specific items/characters etc are profiting just as well, but with lots of positive player feedback. Positive feedback = Happy People = People willing to spend money = PROFIT. Negative Feedback = Unhappy People = Loss of potential revenue. Its Business 101. Give players the option to buy specific girls for their Harem for say €5 each (Not with Kobans, this ensures profit to the developers) AS WELL as the epic pachinko. This will give players the CHOICE to either use the kobans they earn each day on refills or a chance at a new girl, as well as giving them a way to get the girl they want GUARANTEED if they pay. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoyoHH Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 Thought I'd bump this since it's more relevant than ever. If I was leading the development team I would stop working on leagues and harem V.2 immediately and address this one issue, which is by far the biggest problem with the game and biggest complaint from the players. The completely luck-based model is pissing off (and ripping off) your community and you don't seem to care. Both Jessie and Kinkoid read and post on this board (although not often enough). This idea has been proposed by multiple players and echoed by countless others. I would love to see a developer response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemenza Cordova Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 On 4/6/2018 at 11:09 PM, YoyoHH said: SIMPLE SOLUTION! Place a progress bar on your event girls. Keep your low drop rate and hell, even keep the drop rate secret if you like. But set a GUARANTEE drop point. After 100 fights, 200, 900, whatever. Set a progress bar and let the players see how close they are to a guaranteed drop. Set a different guarantee drop point for different girls if you like. Set some reasonable and set some ludicrously high. Either way, the players will be able to make an informed decision on how to play. Those who then choose to use kobans to get extra fights will at least earn progress towards the new girl and will not waste both their kobans and their revenue opportunity. The girls will be just as hard to get, the new players will still have access to the girls, the senior players will still lose revenue if they choose to increase their harem, and most importantly - everyone is happy. Players are loving the game more than ever because it's fair. Not easy, but FAIR. Developers are happy because people will buy kobans to progress, rather than feeling frustrated that their purchases are wasted. It's the definition of a win-win. Read the feedback on the Legendary event. What you're doing right now is not working. But small changes like the one I've suggested can make all the difference in the world. The Legendary event looks like you've chosen revenue over player satisfaction. And foolishly, because this model will actually lead to long-term revenue loss. You don't have to choose, you can have both. THIS !!! ... i love this idea & would love to see this idea applied in game ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyepie Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 On 4/6/2018 at 11:09 AM, YoyoHH said: It's really not rocket science. You have players who love the game and artwork and are willing to make purchases to advance their player and acquire more girls. But players are hesitant to use kobans if it doesn't progress their harem (I know I am), and if they do use kobans and get nothing, they are immediately frustrated and regretful (and less likely to buy kobans in the future). The 100% luck-based drop system is pissing off your players and cutting into your revenue. There's a reason players save their kobans for 10x epic pachinko - the guaranteed girl. You want to place event girls on the low-level bosses? Not a problem. This cuts into player revenue if they choose to pursue the girls, which is to the game's advantage. Lower revenue means it takes longer to progress the harem, which means players stay interested. Players can CHOOSE whether to acquire new girls or increase their revenue stream. However, it is the luck-based drop system that's the problem. Players have no idea if or when the new girl will drop, and therefore have no basis to decide whether or not sacrificing revenue is worth it. They're asked to make a choice without the facts, and when that choice backfires, they are understandably angry. The 50 pages of negative feedback on the recent Legendary Event is evidence. You want super low drop rates? Also not a problem. Low drop rates keep people engaged and playing, which is to the game's advantage. But, again, the 100% luck-based model is a motivation killer. Because a low drop rate can mean a quick drop, a long wait, or (God help us) a non-drop, players feel like they've wasted their time if a girl doesn't drop quickly. And they're right, they have. SIMPLE SOLUTION! Place a progress bar on your event girls. Keep your low drop rate and hell, even keep the drop rate secret if you like. But set a GUARANTEE drop point. After 100 fights, 200, 900, whatever. Set a progress bar and let the players see how close they are to a guaranteed drop. Set a different guarantee drop point for different girls if you like. Set some reasonable and set some ludicrously high. Either way, the players will be able to make an informed decision on how to play. Those who then choose to use kobans to get extra fights will at least earn progress towards the new girl and will not waste both their kobans and their revenue opportunity. The girls will be just as hard to get, the new players will still have access to the girls, the senior players will still lose revenue if they choose to increase their harem, and most importantly - everyone is happy. Players are loving the game more than ever because it's fair. Not easy, but FAIR. Developers are happy because people will buy kobans to progress, rather than feeling frustrated that their purchases are wasted. It's the definition of a win-win. Read the feedback on the Legendary event. What you're doing right now is not working. But small changes like the one I've suggested can make all the difference in the world. The Legendary event looks like you've chosen revenue over player satisfaction. And foolishly, because this model will actually lead to long-term revenue loss. You don't have to choose, you can have both. They say they dont want a progress bar because they prefer the luck system. They say that you can win a girl after 10 fights or maybe 100 fights so that this makes the game better to the creators for some reason.... that the luck based system somehow makes better gameplay or somehow is better than a progress bar (They say your luck could change at any moment, you could win a girl after 20 fights next time) Which is EXTREMELY weird and a really odd excuse. even the mods have said in the past how the luck system is better but i never hear good reasons as to why this is better. i never get real reasons to keep that luck system (Except the excuse that: Luck System is so Exciting guys!!!" ) everyone hopes for a progress bar, everyone is begging for a progress bar. I dont know if they just CANT make a progress bar. I dont know if it would be too hard for the devs to create the progress bar, or too much work in changing the code. maybe it would complicate things too much I just wish the drop rate was a liltle higher during events 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spheedy Posted May 23, 2018 Share Posted May 23, 2018 also the randomness of the equipment they give us is total bullshit , spend a lot of kobans in epic pac to get gear not for you , not to mention the events ....what the hell is the point of giving a reward where you cant use it !!!!!!!!!!!, i got 3 events where the gear i received as a reward was useless to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoyoHH Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, jyepie said: They say they dont want a progress bar because they prefer the luck system. They say that you can win a girl after 10 fights or maybe 100 fights so that this makes the game better to the creators for some reason.... that the luck based system somehow makes better gameplay or somehow is better than a progress bar (They say your luck could change at any moment, you could win a girl after 20 fights next time) Which is EXTREMELY weird and a really odd excuse. even the mods have said in the past how the luck system is better but i never hear good reasons as to why this is better. i never get real reasons to keep that luck system (Except the excuse that: Luck System is so Exciting guys!!!" ) 4 I haven't read or seen anywhere where the actual devs have stated that they prefer a luck system to a progress bar. If they have said this, I agree with you that it doesn't make any sense, and it certainly should have some clarifications regarding the reason why. I do agree that a luck-based system is more "exciting" when you win. And if you look at my proposal, I'm actually not suggesting they remove/replace the current system. A luck-based, random drop system is fine, even if the drop rate is super low. The problem is that there is no safety net to protect players from horrendous bad-luck streaks (and they do happen). Adding a progress bar on top of the current random drop system would keep the "excitement" and the "challenge" but eliminate the needless frustration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts