Patch-Notes 18/04/18 Discussion

[randomplayer]

While I still can't properly grasp the magnitude of the changes in this PvP patch, I can understand one thing: now you are forced to boost or consider all three main stats and even harmony too, so they practically give us more money sinks.

And I still don't see any correction to this blasted game economy...

[shalalin]

It might be different for veteran players who had previously maxed out their crit values at 25% anyway, but for me as a newer player it seems the changes have majorly increased the randomness factor in my fights because of the total Harmony chance being always 50% across both players now. I was previously around 10% crit, as were most of my assigned PvP opponents, so crit attacks played a relatively minor role in my fights. That's a lot different now. Still coming to grips with that...

[Ady6]

47 minutes ago, Lazy Lord said:

Ahem, where does Narcissism come from when no girl on either side is Charm?

And Charm girls triggering Reassurance. Okay...

I've also noticed the special is off on occasion. I currently run Charm for alpha, KH for beta and omega, yet I've fought games where i critted for narcissism multiple times in a row.

[Lazy Lord]

Just now, Ady6 said:

I've also noticed the special is off on occasion. I currently run Charm for alpha, KH for beta and omega, yet I've fought games where i critted for narcissism multiple times in a row.

It might be that Narcissism and Reassurance popping up on the enemy's health bar are actually caused by his girls (less damage and healing apply to that bar after all, so you see the Harmony in effect when it works, a turn later than Hardcore). Still doesn't explain how some effect appears with no girl of corresponding class on the battlefield

[Sovereign RHB]

23 minutes ago, Ady6 said:

I've also noticed the special is off on occasion. I currently run Charm for alpha, KH for beta and omega, yet I've fought games where i critted for narcissism multiple times in a row.

Narcisism is shown on both opponents simultaneously. Not sure if it's all the time or some of the time. Or just seems so due to quick succesion. Clearly some tweaking is still in order. Maybe  have each team have it's own colour font?

NOTE: Just fought the class I'm weak to (-20%) who also had higher ego and I won. I had a multiclass team and my harmony boosted so it was 43% vs 6%. Still experimenting and learning.

Edited April 18, 2018 by dirty harry

[Habi]

2 hours ago, fap.titans.gra said:

It is not idiotic, because the rainbow equipment would be too overpower.
Even now the rainbow gear is better than the single main statistic.

you didn't get my point. i'm talking about same stat from 2 sources. not different stats. a point know how awards me double ego if it comes from an item instead of the market. that's idiotic. a point know how should have the same effect no matter what it source is.

additionally: no matter in what direction it would be adapted, rainbow items would be either the same or less powerful than now but never more powerful.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Habi

[Lazy Lord]

Does Reassurance heal you from zero? And if it does, is the damage dealt to you that turn taken in account or are you allowed to proceed even if the hit is stronger than your healing? Imagine the system where 100% critical chance is possible and Know-how harems are immortal always healing above zero

[fap.titans.gra]

I think a patch is a good change, but I do not know how it is with the balance of the rainbow gear. someone would have to count it

finally, mixed equipment also gives something.
finally, the maxation of all the stats gives something.
The fights are more equal.

There are no, or very rare, situations that you get critical hits all the time.
(although you and your opponent have a 25% chance before the update).

in one word! patch on the plus!

[Sovereign RHB]

20 minutes ago, Habi said:

additionally: no matter in what direction it would be adapted, rainbow items would be either the same or less powerful than now but never more powerful.

Looking at the rainbow items, they clearly favour harmony. If you still have some of them left, try them and see if you still feel that way. I change them for single stat and vice versa depending on how the 50% harmony is divided And found it makes a big difference.

@Lazy Lord

Does Reassurance heal you from zero?  YES. nobody dies when they hit zero. They die on the next attack. Even with narcisism in effect, as I just saw!

And if it does, is the damage dealt to you that turn taken in account or are you allowed to proceed even if the hit is stronger than your healing? Dunno, watch closely, I guess.

Imagine the system where 100% critical chance is possible and Know-how harems are immortal always healing above zero. Not gonna happen!

Edited April 18, 2018 by dirty harry

[fap.titans.gra]

3 minutes ago, dirty harry said:

16 minutes ago, Habi said:

additionally: no matter in what direction it would be adapted, rainbow items would be either the same or less powerful than now but never more powerful.

Looking at the rainbow items, they clearly favour harmony. If you still have some of them left, try them and see if you still feel that way. I change them for single stat and vice versa depending on how the 50% harmony is divided And found it makes a big difference.

Yes you are right! I also think that rainbow equipment is now too overpower,
but I do not have rainbow equipment and with single statistics equipment on the same level. so I can not compare them equally. But the rainbow eqwipunek of a much lower level is comparable with the equipment with 1 main statistic at a much higher level

 

[Ady6]

Rainbow items at my level gives roughly 500 to each stat, except harmony which i slightly higher (~700).
So I get:
500 main, which translates to 500 atk power and 5000 ego
500 second, which is 500 defense and 2000 ego
500 tertiary, 500 defense and 250 harmony
500 ego
700 harmony
In summary, 500 atk, 7500 ego, 500 allround defense and 950 harmony

Epic equiments gives around 1000 mainstat, ergo 1000 atk power and 10000 ego

Legendary main stat gives 1500 mainstat, ergo 1500 atk power and 15000 ego

Equipping a rainbow for an epic thusly gives this:
-500 atk
-2500 ego
+500 defense
+950 harmony
Essentially 500 atk and 500 defense is the same thing, seen from a vacuum, so they negat each other. Thusly the difference between epics and rainbows is harmony over ego (and in turn rainbow is slightly better for charm and mainstat epics is slightly better for KH and HC from a crit perspective.
A legendary on the other hand gives an additional 500 atk and 5000 ego, and should thusly be considered a more safe bet than rainbows and more powerful to boot (this might mean that KH and HC has edge over charm in the long run).

So legendary mainstat > rainbow >/= epic mainstat

Someone correct me if my math is wrong or if I've gotten some info wrong.

[Asherandai]

Well this is completely broken now. No matter what I do as a charm player I can't win against know-how or Hardcore because their crits are literally over twice as powerful as mine, 3 times as powerful for know-how. I even put on all rainbow gear, loosing over 50k ego in the process and 10k attack, and their crits were still way more powerful than mine. I'm losing to players with over 90k less ego and 5k less attack than me, regardless of whether i pump my main stat with gear or use rainbow gear to get a higher harmony value and defence.

When the update occurred I needed 5 wins to complete my daily rewards, I still need 3 wins. There is no way i will ever get the daily rewards again. And that is on top of losing 30% of income so I can no longer upgrade at the same rate as hardcore or know-how players, and on top of losing any chance at affection items from battles so my harem income will suffer even more. The game is completely fucked unless I change my class, which would mean spending weeks finding new gear and millions buying it... oh yeah, and I can't afford to buy it now so that's not even option.

EDIT by a Moderator. The bad language used.

[shalalin]

3 hours ago, Chthugha said:

that's because equipment now also gives endurance, and thus ego.
the schedule below says it all:

I'm not sure I'm a big fan of main stat equipment getting boosted to a 10x multiplier for endurance now. IMHO that kind of defeats the decision to give stat bonuses to the secondary and tertiary equipment, not to mention that it makes equipment that directly boosts endurance even less useful now - I just dumped level 23 equipment with 65 charm + 100 endurance (=> 750 endurance boost; I'm a charm player) in favour of old level 17 equipment with straight 79 charm (=> 790 endurance boost) that I still happened to have laying around, and that seems pretty weird.

Edited April 18, 2018 by shalalin

[fap.titans.gra]

6 minutes ago, Ady6 said:

Rainbow items at my level gives roughly 500 to each stat, except harmony which i slightly higher (~700).
So I get:
500 main, which translates to 500 atk power and 5000 ego
500 second, which is 500 defense and 2000 ego
500 tertiary, 500 defense and 250 harmony
500 ego
700 harmony
In summary, 500 atk, 7500 ego, 500 allround defense and 950 harmony

Epic equiments gives around 1000 mainstat, ergo 1000 atk power and 10000 ego

Legendary main stat gives 1500 mainstat, ergo 1500 atk power and 15000 ego

Equipping a rainbow for an epic thusly gives this:
-500 atk
-2500 ego
+500 defense
+950 harmony
Essentially 500 atk and 500 defense is the same thing, seen from a vacuum, so they negat each other. Thusly the difference between epics and rainbows is harmony over ego (and in turn rainbow is slightly better for charm and mainstat epics is slightly better for KH and HC from a crit perspective.
A legendary on the other hand gives an additional 500 atk and 5000 ego, and should thusly be considered a more safe bet than rainbows and more powerful to boot (this might mean that KH and HC has edge over charm in the long run).

So legendary mainstat > rainbow >/= epic mainstat

Someone correct me if my math is wrong or if I've gotten some info wrong.

if you have a harmony at a low level that you will never have  critical hit or very, very rarely.  Harmony is very necessary, because if you have 5% of HC, then you have a 150% attack on a critical hit, gives you nothing. because you will not have a critical hit in the fight, even one. When you are charm player, then you have a critical hit every 2 attacks and you also limit your opponent with additional defense and the opponent will not make any critical attack for the entire battle. This is what gives rainbow equipment.

[Chthugha]

1 minute ago, shalalin said:

I'm not sure I'm a big fan of main stat equipment getting boosted to a 10x multiplier for endurance now. IMHO that kind of defeats the decision to give stat bonuses to the secondary and tertiary traits, not to mention that it makes equipment that directly boosts endurance even less useful now - I just dumped level 23 equipment with 65 charm + 100 endurance (=> 750 endurance boost; I'm a charm player) in favour of old level 17 equipment with straight 79 charm (=> 790 endurance boost) that I still happened to have laying around, and that seems pretty weird.

to be fair, I would've chosen the mono-charm item already before the change. the additional charm is more useful than that tiny bit of extra endurance that you got from it (30 more).

[Ady6]

8 minutes ago, Asherandai said:

Well this is completely broken now. No matter what I do as a charm player I can't win against know-how or Hardcore because their crits are literally over twice as powerful as mine, 3 times as powerful for know-how. I even put on all rainbow gear, loosing over 50k ego in the process and 10k attack, and their crits were still way more powerful than mine. I'm losing to players with over 90k less ego and 5k less attack than me, regardless of whether i pump my main stat with gear or use rainbow gear to get a higher harmony value and defence.

When the update occurred I needed 5 wins to complete my daily rewards, I still need 3 wins. There is no way i will ever get the daily rewards again. And that is on top of losing 30% of income so I can no longer upgrade at the same rate as hardcore or know-how players, and on top of losing any chance at affection items from battles so my harem income will suffer even more. The game is completely fucked unless I change my class, which would mean spending weeks finding new gear and millions buying it... oh yeah, and I can't afford to buy it now so that's not even option.

Fuck Kinkoid with a rusty pitchfork.

Yeah, the best fix I've come up with so far is to run KH as beta and omega to get better crits. Problem is that you trade off so much attack that you need to outcrit your opponent 3 to 1 in every game for it to work. Also, it's stupid. Shouldnt need another class girl to make up for bad crit ability.

[shalalin]

4 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

to be fair, I would've chosen the mono-charm item already before the change. the additional charm is more useful than that tiny bit of extra endurance that you got from it (30 more).

I should have clarified that I was already using the 79 charm equipment (it also has a small crit/harmony bonus - both equipments are rare type, so two traits each). By "dumped" I meant that I outright sold the charm/endurance equipment, because it has become literally useless under any circumstances now, despite being 6 levels newer. That seems a bit counter-intuitive, and is down entirely to the main stat getting boosted from 5x to 10x.

Edited April 18, 2018 by shalalin

[Ady6]

3 minutes ago, fap.titans.gra said:

 

if you have a harmony at a low level that you will never have  critical hit or very, very rarely.  Harmony is very necessary, because if you have 5% of HC, then you have a 150% attack on a critical hit, gives you nothing. because you will not have a critical hit in the fight, even one. When you are charm player, then you have a critical hit every 2 attacks and you also limit your opponent with additional defense and the opponent will not make any critical attack for the entire battle. This is what gives rainbow equipment.

Yeah well, it's still RNG. I've been outcritted in several matches now when I have 40/10 in crit ratio. And I'm not sure that HC's extra harmony yields better results than extra atk power (since it's virtually the same thing, only one doesn't RNG fuck you all the way to the moon from time to time).

[Chthugha]

Just now, shalalin said:

I should have clarified that I was already using the 79 charm equipment (it also has a small crit/harmony bonus - both equipments are rare type, so two traits). By "dumped" I meant that I outright sold the charm/endurance equipment now, because it has become literally useless under any circumstances now, despite being 6 levels newer.

yup, they should remove endurance from equipment altogether.
it has been rather useless from the start.

[Guest]

Hello, all.

Thank you for all of your comments.

Today we applied our latest changes in the pvp system. Although we see that it appears to be less balanced than before, we can reassure you, that it's not the case. Why? So, if you were used to using the same items, now this will change and you will have to adapt to new ways of using your items. 

The changes done are part of a big plan for improving our game.

If the current changes bring issues, be sure that we are going to work and improve. Yet, please, understand that before taking any actions we need to gather data, enough to have a clear idea.

We are happy to see that you are active, yet, we would like that you wait for our official FAQ before you state your own calculations, for sometimes they can be a bit wrong and maybe harm other players. We are going to prepare the FAQ shortly.

For the users, that don't follow our rules and use bad language, guys, we have zero tolerance to that.

Best,
Jessie Kinkoid

[shalalin]

2 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

yup, they should remove endurance from equipment altogether.
it has been rather useless from the start.

Well, I'm okay with it being available, if only because it provides a greater variety of possible equipment combinations and thus makes it a bit more tricky/time-consuming to eventually find your "ideal" equipment. (FWIW, I'll be playing HH as f2p so I'm unlikely to have too many rainbow items anytime soon, and two-stat equipment will probably be a major component of my setup.) But if endurance as a pure trait gets outright dominated by the three basic traits, there's not much of a purpose to it anymore.

FWIW, one approach would be to boost the amount of endurance that equipment can give you. That already seems to be the case for the harmony stat, e.g. rare equipment might give 80/80 with a particular "type" of rare equipment (there are 5 differently-weighted combinations) if the traits involved are some combination of HC/Charm/KH/Endurance, but it would be something like 80/110 if the second trait is Harmony.

[Ady6]

Counted the number of attacks in my last three games, and it averages around 10 attacks now.

So to consider the difference between mainstat epic and rainbow (500 atk or 950 harmony) for HC:
500 extra atk over 10 attacks is 5000 extra damage over the course of a match.
In those three games me and my opponents harmony averaged around 3500, so 950 harmony would account for slightly less than a third of your crit. Can't be arsed with exact numbers but say that you have 25% crit, so the 950 harmony would be something like 7% crit. Over 10 attacks it's not even statistically true to get even one crit in a game. An attack should be around 10000, so a crit would give 5000 more damage.

Ergo, harmony gives less damage than attack power for HC.
This was just a fast calculated scenario though, so there are more factors to consider but this will still hold true (with some accuracy) most of the time. You either take 5000 flat damage or you take the optional maybe baby damage that on occasion would be more than 5000 but more often than not, less.

[Sovereign RHB]

50 minutes ago, Ady6 said:

Rainbow items at my level gives roughly 500 to each stat, except harmony which i slightly higher (~700).
So I get:
500 main, which translates to 500 atk power and 5000 ego
500 second, which is 500 defense and 2000 ego
500 tertiary, 500 defense and 250 harmony
500 ego
700 harmony
In summary, 500 atk, 7500 ego, 500 allround defense and 950 harmony

Epic equiments gives around 1000 mainstat, ergo 1000 atk power and 10000 ego

Legendary main stat gives 1500 mainstat, ergo 1500 atk power and 15000 ego

Equipping a rainbow for an epic thusly gives this:
-500 atk
-2500 ego
+500 defense
+950 harmony
Essentially 500 atk and 500 defense is the same thing, seen from a vacuum, so they negat each other. Thusly the difference between epics and rainbows is harmony over ego (and in turn rainbow is slightly better for charm and mainstat epics is slightly better for KH and HC from a crit perspective.
A legendary on the other hand gives an additional 500 atk and 5000 ego, and should thusly be considered a more safe bet than rainbows and more powerful to boot (this might mean that KH and HC has edge over charm in the long run).

So legendary mainstat > rainbow >/= epic mainstat

Someone correct me if my math is wrong or if I've gotten some info wrong.

It is just not that simple anymore. Girls, girls' classes, equipment (multi vs single), boosters, opponents boosters. All are now variables you have to take into account. Somewhat less attackpower that is used a couple of times more due to high harmony might be better than high attackpower that never crits.

The best way is to experiment and see what works for you. Otherwise you might get frustrated and

 

reach for your rusty pitchfork. lol.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by dirty harry
reference was mod edited so better do it here too

[Ady6]

2 minutes ago, dirty harry said:

It is just not that simple anymore. Girls, girls' classes, equipment (multi vs single), boosters, opponents boosters. All are now variables you have to take into account. Somewhat less attackpower that is used a couple of times more due to high harmony might be better than high attackpower that never crits.

The best way is to experiment and see what works for you. Otherwise you might get frustrated and go for your rusty pitchfork. lol.

Yeah sure, it all boils down to what playstyle you choose to have. But I'm looking at the numbers from equipment in a vacuum to get an estimate as to how we should evalute their efficiency. Especially since some people seems to think that rainbow gear is overpowered, which it doesn't seem to be. Another thing to consider is that the battlesystem is still very limiting and automated, so even if you maximize every aspect of your pvp skill it still won't matter if you're paired against people 10 levels above or below cuz you'd still loose. Or when RNGesus decides your opponent is his successor and gives him 5 crits in a row. But I like to analyze numbers, so I do it anyways

[fap.titans.gra]

4 minutes ago, dirty harry said:

It is just not that simple anymore. Girls, girls' classes, equipment (multi vs single), boosters, opponents boosters. All are now variables you have to take into account. Somewhat less attackpower that is used a couple of times more due to high harmony might be better than high attackpower that never crits.

The best way is to experiment and see what works for you. Otherwise you might get frustrated and go for your rusty pitchfork. lol.

this is true! What about the fact that you have a super power attack, if you do not have even 1 critical hit, and the opponent critically hits every 2 attack, and sums up more damage than you.
Now the game is not based only on 2 statistics (EGO and power attack). there are many factors now.