[[ 24-Nov-21 ] T.T.Tubers PoA - Discussion]

16 minutes ago, Kenrae said:

But you loose 150 kobans that way, I'm not sure that's a good idea 🤔

As long as you claim them before the DC end time tomorrow it doesn't.

I'm in the same position as @Xemnas - on Tier 18 and I've still got some fights to go to complete that. So I'll hold off on claiming my DM rewards until tomorrow morning, when I'll have finished Tier 18, then claim them (and the Koban) completing Tier 19, and then move straight on to Tier 20.

[Awakenings are here]

1 hour ago, Liliat said:

I don't know how it is for other leagues; but in my previous and current league (Both D1), I'm actually surprised to see that most players still have the same level girls (Like lvl 449 Harem for lvl 445+ players). Even in the Top 15 of the league, I don't see too many girls above their lvl cap (I found only 2 players with +100 levels in the top 15. Everyone else is somewhere between +0 and +50).

+1 - I'm in D2 and people just don't seem to be using the Awakening system (yet). I'm unusual that I have. I'm also sure it's different in D3 where there are a lot more competitive players.

[[ 24-Nov-21 ] T.T.Tubers PoA - Discussion]

43 minutes ago, Yuyureka said:

My Kobans will not be enough (about 1800 on Nutaku (equivalent to 10k on Hentai Heroes)), should i focus on one or two PoP and get them at max lvl (or at least as high as possible), or should i try to upgrade a bit all 3 PoP ?

Also be aware that there is a difference in power required between the 3 PoP. See - https://harem-battle.club/wiki/Harem-Heroes/HH:Places-of-Power

 

Goblins: Master of Shadows is far and away the cheapest, then Part Time Purifiers then Kinks on Air, which at Level 10 costs almost twice as much as Goblins. So if you're tight on your available girls, its better to upgrade Goblins first and so on.

[[ 24-Nov-21 ] T.T.Tubers PoA - Discussion]

1 hour ago, Yuyureka said:

I'm selling items, but i've been playing for less than 10 months, i obviously don't have 2k items i can randomly sell. I've sold about 200 items (mostly because of the PoA missions), with an average selling price of 100 000, so i got 20M. That's is a bit more than half the money needed to upgrade one 5 stars legendary girl. Maybe if i was playing for years and had all my PoP upgraded, i could get a lot more items to sell, but for now, that's not possible. But yes, upgrading my PoP to get more x10 orbs might be a way to find a new balance. (I'm a bit hesitant because recently, the drops and droprates are subject to change)

100% upgrade the PoP - you're correct that the drop rates have moved a bit recently, but regardless this has still been the best resource source in the game. If the 10xGP has been reduced, the 1xMP has been increased and they get you boosters and free girls. I made the mistake of waiting too long to do that and now see clearly that it was a mistake!

[[ 24-Nov-21 ] T.T.Tubers PoA - Discussion]

54 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Honestly, donation-based daily contests are pretty much a thing of the past, since the massive nerf to cash income. Otherwise, you can't accumulate Ymens as quick and easy as before, but if you just spend it when needed your stash still grows (not just "diminishes slowly", or "stagnates"—it actually still grows).

Out of interest, have you reverted to collecting your Harem cash?

I'm certainly not seeing my stash growing. Spending only on buying XP/Aff, upgrading stats on level-ups and upgrading girls, my balance is down around 250mil since the Ymen nerf (that includes completely upgrading one Mythic). That said, I haven't had a sell items DC yet. While I realise that these won't be nearly as big a jump as they used to be, I'd still expect it to take a big chunk out of that loss. I also have record levels of 10xGPs stashed (though I think the drop rate on them may have been reduced to up the MP drop rate). And I do have ~3 billion, so I can afford to let that ebb a little while finding the new equilibrum.

[Beginner question : Best way to spend kobans ?]

20 minutes ago, Bomba said:

With time the chances for 5star Legendary girls to appear in top7 will diminish significantly.

And I think this is the crux of the discussion. How quickly you feel that Mythics will make 5*s irrelevant. I do agree that 5* are on the path to irrelevance, but I think this is likely at least 2 years away. Until that point they are still important and will frequently make up the bulk of the top 7.

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

So you need a pretty big bank to start it.

I thought that might be why your figures were so high, which is why I commented on variance and having significantly more than I need before starting any of the events. I 100% agree - you should never start a MD event with only just enough to cover what it is expected to cost. Having 50% more is smart. Personally, I like to keep a cushion of 100% more than I should need.

[Beginner question : Best way to spend kobans ?]

4 hours ago, Bomba said:

On HH that amount(12.5k) would be enough for only MD. There will be some left probably. And from two month those leftovers will probably be enough for LD. But leaves you nothing else.

Assume a 6% drop rate (it's actually a little higher than this from what I've seen), meaning that we need 1667 Combativity total for 100 drops. Add in SP booster x5, meaning that we only need 834 Combativity as we need half as many drops. I started the last MD with 150 Combativity banked, and over the course of the 3 days had another 142 in natural regens (this included some DC Combativity which admittedly is gone now, but still only accounts for ~10). This means that I needed an extra 542 Combativity. At 1.8 Koban/Combativity, that's 976 Koban + (5x90) for the SP boosters, giving an average cost per Mythic of 1426 Koban (or 8556 HH). I think you might be over-estimating the cost for MD a little. I do accept that this is when everything aligns with mathematical expectation - so you will have instances where it costs a good bit more and times, like this month for me, where it costs less - but I always have a significant bank of Kobans saved up anyway, so I'm happy to eat that variance knowing that in the long run the price will work out at around 1426 Kobans/month for the Mythic girl. [EDIT - I forgot to add on the 24 for the 3x50 to burn through the 150 saved Combativity right at the start to get the natural regens running - so actual total 1450]

 

 

4 hours ago, Bomba said:

And 18 months is a lot of time. After 6 months the need for 5star legendary girls will drop for you because you will get 7 mythics. And to up the strength of those you will need the passive bonuses.

I understand your point here. However, there's a paradoxical conundrum in either extreme.

As things stand, my ability to hold my own in D2 is currently closely correlated with the number of top 7 girls I can field in a given week. If I can field 4, I'm very strong and will have to try and intentionally weaken myself to use all fights. If I can field 3, it's a comfortable week. Less that 3 and I'll have to plan to ensure I can remain in the top 30. It's not quite as cut and dry as that, but that's a reasonable rule of thumb.

Having those top 7 girls is almost exclusively a function of which 6/5* you have available. By sacrificing picking up 5* to increase the number of extra 3* you get, your significantly reduce the chances of being able to field a strong selection of the top 7 but gain the passive bonuses.

Either direction you go, you lose one benefit and gain another. It really comes down to which benefit you think is stronger or finding the best middle ground between the two.

And as I hadn't expected to be really competitive in D3 for another 18 months (when I'd be expecting to hit around Level 440), the pacing for hitting max passive bonuses aligns fairly neatly this way.

As to the '7 Mythics to win' strategy - as I mentioned above, I appreciate that this is the right strategy for the current version of the game as Blessings are made redundant by Level 750 girls, but I strongly suspect that this dynamic is going to shift in the next 6 months. Blessings created demand for all Mythics by making every one of them valuable on different weeks. Commercially it would be a very bad idea for KK to undermine this dynamic after creating it. As such I think basing long term planning on the assumption that the current 7 Mythics to dominate (that's just begging for a Lord or the Rings parody hehe) is going to remain in place does not seem wise to me. Blessings will (imo) end up getting an overhaul to ensure that it is non-optimal to sit with a static team of 7 Mythics. Commercially it's logical that will happen.

 

4 hours ago, Bomba said:

Wait, how do you get 26 a month?

I wouldn't like to pin this down too much and my recollection would likely make me a lier 😛 But here you go:

 

316/12 = 26.33...

I would guess that this may have been padded by 1* - removing these reduces that total to around 21 - but 1* are still getting pumped out so completely removing them isn't entirely accurate, and my lack of Pachinko play at the MP/EP level had artifically reduced my collection speed as well. I'd guess that 26 isn't far off accurate.

[Mythic Pachinko]

15 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

On a lighter note, I still don't understand why so many people feel the need to add the Y in "MP". I get the extra V in "EvP" to differentiate it from "EP", but nothing in the game can be confused with "MP". Why the extra letter, guys? WhYyyyy? ^^

Good point, well made.

I only now realise I'd simply copied bad habit from elsewhere. 'MP' it is from now on.

[Beginner question : Best way to spend kobans ?]

34 minutes ago, Bomba said:

Purple(Voyeur) gems - you get 300 per week in League if you win all battles. So it's 1200 per month. Plus 500 from free path in PoA. 1700 plus what you'll get from T PoPs. So 300 from paid path in PoA isn't that much.
Orange(Physical) gems - you get 24 a day in Season if you win all battles. So it's 720 per month. Plus 67 from additional kisses in Season and Daily rewards. Plus 9 from free path in PoA. Plus 300 orange gems from free path in PoA. To the total of 1100 orange gems plus what you'll get from T PoPs. So 500 from paid path in PoA looks pretty good.

These sorts of calculations are really useful. If you're going to stick to those sorts of schedules. But reality gets in the way and winning everything isn't always possible.

In terms of the league, not only is not even vaguely possible for me to win all of my battles, I actually have to be careful and manage my wins/losses to ensure I don't promote right now. I think I might be able to hit higher rewards in D3 right now, but not higher XP. So I want to stay in D2 for a while.

Seasons - I've actually taken to not playing at the start of the month to save the previous month's Kisses for the KC. A step past that though, once I hit tier 51 I stop playing. This is to allow others to move past me and ensure that when the PoA comes along I get easy wins for all the PvP tiers.

So the above will absolutely impact Gem accrual negatively.

But then there's the potential positives. For instance, I have a huge bank of MyP orbs (comparatively, but not to the veterans lol) and my gut feeling is that the drop rate on the PoP has been increased on these. Consequently, in a short time I'll start playing these again (which will be great for my booster stash!!!). And I think other sources of Gems are likely to turn up in the near future.

These sorts of variables make assessing the Gems that I will be able to pick up in the short to mid term tough. Hence wanting to get a little more real world information before either spending excessively or panicking about the potential shortfall.

------------------------------------------------

Koban income:

League - 226/week = ~32/day = 960/30 day month
Daily Missions - 25/day = 750/month

That already covers the MD with some to spare (assuming full SP booster usage).

Seasons - 65/month (I know this varies - I've went with this month which I think is a low month)
Daily Calendar - 25/month
Classic Even - I'm not sure exactly but at 9 days I'd estimate at least an additional 100/month
Orgy Days - Again not sure exactly, but 5 days 50/month
TPoP - This has been reduced a lot recently by the dilution of the good TPoP, but I'd still estimate around 3/day, so 90/month

That would be 2040/month (12240 for HH), which would actually just about cover both MD (~1500) and LD (~550) on an 'average' amount of Combativity used on each. Though I will admit that this month may be giving me a false sense of security as I received an insanely good drop rate on MD this month (9.65%) which meant I actually got Undercover Valentina for only 906 Koban (5436 HH). That's left me with a lot extra this month.

Counter to that though - LD is only every second month, so you could half the cost and bank the extra Kobans as savings.

I don't spend Kobans on OD. I understand that these are a cheap way to pick-up lots of girls, but already managing around 26/month (and I've shorted that figure by not spending MyP or EP at all for about 5-6 months now). A harem of ~800 is required to max out the passive bonuses. That's 18 months away at the current rate. I'm not sweating this. The 'gotta catch 'em all' thing doesn't really rank highly on my priorities. 3* are a nice extra if you can get them in case they come up in the double Blessed category, but not critical to sustaining a high level of performance imo.

And then you have the Daily Contests. I'm in a good timezone for these and have a very flexible work schedule, so I do well placing top 4 most days. So these come in over and above what I get above. If these crashed out - which I fully expect them to at Level 400, at least for a time - I should still have enough to engage both events as long as they are still useful to me.

----------------------------------------------
 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

Honestly, the best short term strategy would be to break 450 and go for 500 level mythic and legendary girls. Or even 550.

Using my current strategy I estimate I'll break 450 naturally sometime in January (hopefully early) next year.

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

But I would still recommend to stop doing it when you reach a reasonable amount of 5star legendary girls to cover your team's needs.

And I agree - 5*s have a limited shelf life given the ever growing pool of Mythics. There reaches a point where, having picked-up enough Mythics and the overall pool of Mythics having expanded significantly, that 5*s stop being relevant. The idea behind getting them at the present time is they are still very useful right now and will be for the next few years (you need a large bank of Mythics to cover all the Blessing combinations and as that only increases by 1/month it's going to take a long time to reach saturation).
 

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

You know what. I think we just value 5star legendary girls differently. 25.00 is good, but I think that it's just a supplement to mythic's 28.56 and rarely worth it. So I prioritize bonuses to that 7 mythic team over them. But I have enough options to cover my team's needs depending on the blessing. And I don't know your options. I think Legendary contests should've covered those needs at this point. I guess I'm wrong about it.

No necessarily wrong. In fact, more likely to be right than me given the additional game experience you have. It's just not really possible to say for certain.

There is a mathematically optimal strategy to this game. But everyone here is just making educated guesses at it. There are far to many moving parts to intuit the correct strategy exactly and not enough incentive for someone to actually spend the likely months of work it would take to creat a simulator to test the different game approaches to assert as fact which is the best approach. And beyond this, we all overlay our own preferences on the strategies that we choose. If I'm interpreting correctly, you place more emphasis on maxing the passive boosters while I place more on having the strongest girls available to catch the relevant Blessings. I wouldn't go as far as asserting either approach is correct in fact, they're just differing approaches.
 

[Mythic Pachinko]

Is anyone else getting the sense that the drop rate for MyP in PoP has been increased significantly?

[Beginner question : Best way to spend kobans ?]

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

Maybe I misunderstood, but it wasn't clear for me that you were counting it.

Apologies Bomba - I clearly haven't communicated well in this exchange.

I've not been suggesting that MD is the 'best' choice for any player when it comes to Koban spend (which is what this thread is really about and as such what I should have stuck to). I've been comparing the LD vs the PoA.

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

At 385th level you will hit 12th level of T PoPs and you will need additional 57.6M of power from girls in your harem.

I think I could probably afford that now, but if not at approximately 2 levels/week, 385 is 13 weeks away. 3 months. In that time I'll pick-up and max 3 Mythics (6k each) and between 4-6 5* Legendaries (5k each), which already covers the bulk of this jump. So yeah, I would be okay with that.


Book - these are always going to be a bottle neck and I appreciate what you're saying about how the expense escalates as the level increase. But for the near future at least I'm confident that I can afford to keep levelling up girls as needed. If I was trying to break an Awakening barrier - involving maxing lots of girls at once - then this would become a major problem. But with a patient approach the girls necessary to pass the barrier reach it then you move on.

Gifts - I'd estimate I can manage to upgrade a Mythic and a couple of 5*s/month. I do reset the shop when I get up during the night though, meaning I get around 3.5-3.8 shop refreshes/day. That's probably more than most. It also discounts any other sources of Affection (like pachinko as I haven't really used that in months). The way I look at this particular bottle neck is that even if I can't upgrade them all, as long as I have them on hand, I can pick and choose which to upgrade when I need them. Once they're upgraded they're upgraded for life.

Gems - I'm still feeling out how significant this bottleneck is. It's huge if you try and rush moving up Awakening levels immediately. It remains to be seen if I can sustain the strategy discussed in the mid term. Long term some changes will likely need to be made.
 

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

So in these cases PoA will be better, because it gives those additional resources to use.

PoA - I would agree if this was giving you a lot of resources to address the above bottlenecks, but it only gives Gems and it remains to be seen how far those Gems will stretch. If Gems become the principal bottle neck and PoA becomes one of the most significant sources for them re-evaluating the value of PoA is a must.

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

For me - I just don't see a value to the 5star Legendary girl in a long run. And this isn't the game about short term solutions. Right now it's 12% chance for a 5star L girl with 25.00 stats to be relevant and be in top7. That's not a lot and that chance will decrease with each released mythic.

I completely agree that there is an end point to the value of 5*s and that having the Mythics becomes more and more critical as time passes. [Side note - this creates another dynamic that ultimately ensures the older players will always be the top players - even where there were Mythic revival events, these girls are so expensive that catching up to a player who has 36 Mythics already from Level 0 is simply never going to happen.] But the redundancy of 5*s is going to be a very slow errosion over the course of the next few years. In the interim having the 5* is a real boon. So the priority should always be to get and upgrade every Mythic you can. But you can only get one Mythic a month and if you're going to have Koban left over...... Well to me it's a choice between getting some 5* or shop refreshes to get through more experience/gifts. Both have advantages. I just wouldn't spend Koban on 3* girls......

[Beginner question : Best way to spend kobans ?]

20 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

I'm a bit intrigued you haven't mentioned LC at all, or my specific argument that you get a free 5-star legendary each month from LC so it's not worth spending lots of kobans to grab the LD girls too. I guess you simply believe in amassing as many 5-star legendaries as possible.

Spot on - why have only one when you can have 2? LC is a no-brainer pick-up each month.

 

20 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

You need seven 5-star legendaries you can bring close to level 750 ASAP (and one less per Mythic you own),

So it's fair to say then that you feel the level benefits will make the Blessings obsolete? I can certainly see the top small percentage of players sinking resources into 7 Mythic at Level 750 and ignoring the Blessings, but if that starts happening I'd be very confident that KK are going to tweak the system to make Blessings more important again. I like the Blessing system, but beyond that this is the primary economic driver for KK now. If that stops being the case, we revert to a system with an artifical cap on the number of top tier girls you need (7 Mythics and done). That would pull the carpet out from under the demand that KK are trying to make for everyone to need every Mythic.

If left as things are, I think you're likely right. And the huge resources needed to get 7 Mythics to 750 makes the strategy you suggest correct. I would suggest though that there will be changes to come to move us back closer to the Blessing priority system or more of a middle ground where Blessings become relevant again. That would be my gut instinct on this. I'm not chasing level 750 right now as I'm no where near in a position to get even close (not being grandfathered in at 450+), so I'm pacing things to see what happens next.

[Beginner question : Best way to spend kobans ?]

43 minutes ago, Bomba said:

Because you're comparing her to better passive bonuses and mythic girls

Not quite. I'm already saying that I *can* afford the Mythic girls. In fact they would be second on my recommendation to any player after PoP.

So this is really a question of balancing (the frequency of benefit of having any 5* Legendary in your team + the passive bonus) vs ((the frequency of benefit of having any 3* in your team) x the number of extra 3*s + the passive bonus).

As I pointed out above, you're getting around 3x3* girls from the PoA. But you could actually afford 2 LD for the same price. So if you're choosing between PoA and LD in terms of investment you are choosing between those two options with some additional benefits - the Combativity could save you some Koban on the next MD, and some Ymen, a few 10xGP, tickets and gems from the PoA and some Kobans leftover from LD. The other benefits from either aren't enough to get you another girl. So which is going to help you more - the +3 for passive bonuses and 3x3*s or the +2 for passive bonuses and 2x5*?

And that's the assessment that any player, regardless of level, has to make if they are deciding whether it's better to spend Kobans on opening the bonus on PoA or engaging with LD. Not LD vs anything else, just specifically PoA vs LD.

(I would have looked at the spreadsheet, but as far as I'm aware it keeps a log of what the Blessings have been but not the top 7 team for each week so I wouldn't be confident asserting what the frequencies are at this point)
 

 

43 minutes ago, Bomba said:

I'm just a level 457 player who can secure top15 in D3. I can't afford LD for myself. And that's true for every player below me in level and koban income. Because all those players have to think long term and long term LD aren't worth you kobans.

I need a little more time to assert as a certainty, but at level 358 and finishing 16-30 in D2 I'm confident I can afford MD and - based on a LD ever second month - LD as well. Though I am very aggressive in limiting my Koban spending and don't spend on other events. If you're going on PoA or spending on other events then that would be the difference I guess.

 

[Beginner question : Best way to spend kobans ?]

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

So it all comes down to "Can I collect them later if I miss them now?" really. And for Legendary days the answer to that question is "Yes, you can".

@Bomba (Sorry @DvDivXXX - I didn't intend to post twice in a row, but it wouldn't let me edit in quotes)

The question I would pose in response would be 'How long will that take?'

You may miss some 3* if KK sticks to their one use policy, but how often will those 3* actually make your team vs how many times would the 5* have made your team in the years it is likely to take on average to pick her up from MyP? Perhaps @zoopokemon who maintains that fantastic spreadsheet could give us an average of the frequency of occurrance to date of any given 5* Legendary vs any given 3*? I'm confident that the average frequency of occurrance will show that the 5* would come up several times a year with a 3* faaar less, but I'd be willing to be proven wrong on that.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

Also, 5 star Starting and Common girls are among the top100 strongest girls right now.

This wasn't the point I was trying to communicate.

Of course there are other rarity girls that are useful. The ladder of priorities for upgrading for me is:

- Whichever girls give me the strongest team this week
- Whichever girls give me the strongest team next week
(break - I will deal with the above regardless of contests, below I'll only go to when there are contests where spending the XP gives an additional benefit)
- Mythic
- Legendary 5*s (5.5s first)
- Epic 5*s
- Rare 5*s
- Common/Starting 5*s

I'm not advocating ignoring the common girls. I am saying that I ignore anything less than 5*s unless they are of benefit to my team on any given week. This is contrary to others who are advocating upgrading 1* commons because they're cheap to allow them to break through the Awakening barriers so that they can advance further. I'm happy to wait at the present time and see the strongest girls upgraded first. That may change as time passes, but for the moment, with a harem that's almost entirely above level 350 (other than 1*s that don't appear in the Champions rotations) it's entirely possible to focus on building up the top girls to break the next Awakening barrier. A couple of months is likely to see that achieved.

[Beginner question : Best way to spend kobans ?]

Hi DvDivXXX,

I think you're perhaps extending some of what was posted above beyond what was intended.

 

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

There is. MP pool is typically a few months off, although it varies.

That's good to know. Thanks!

 

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Yep, but plenty of past LD girls appeared during that time

I realise this, but was looking specifically at the LD from the last 12 months to give a real world example of how long it can take to pick-up a 5* that you miss on LD from MyP. The real world example being that none of the 5*s from the last 12 months have appeared in the MyP yet.

I'm a big supporter of targeting your MyP play specifically to pick out the 5* (where the player has a large bank of players still in MyP). I've actually hoarded MyP orbs for several months now (~650) to ensure that when 5*s come up I can guarantee grabbing them. During that process I've managed to pick-up Sponsor Sara Jay, Golden Bunny, Silver Lupa and I could have grabbed Sai as well (I got her a few days before on the LD as I wanted to burn my DT on 5 stars).

Again though, the point I was trying to make was that by skipping the LD you are likely to end up waiting years before you can grab all these girls in MyP.

 

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

LD is one of the most expensive and least necessary events in the game, actually. Your argument would make much more sense if you replace LD with MD.

That most certainly was not the point I was trying to convey, though I do disagree with you in terms of the 'necessity' of LD.

MD is the clear winner overall imo. There's no arguements on that front. Anyone saying otherwise likely isn't really competitive on the PvP. I would skip all other events to prioritise MD, though I do understand that this is a subjective opinion. But I would put LD immediately below MD. Yes you can get girls cheaper in terms of Kobans via other events, but the girls simply aren't even remotely as good. 5* are a long long way behind the Mythics. But the NEW Legendaries coming out with LD are of the 5.5 variety now. 3* are, imo, even further behind 5* than 5* are behind Mythics in terms of how often they are likely to contribute to an optimum team.

And again, I would stress that this is my opinion and I accept that yours may differ in terms of how to approach the events, but the frequency with which 5* Legendaries end in the top 7 girls for any given week is so much higher than any given 3* that I'd rather than one 5* than several 3*s.

 

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

PoA is the best value this game has to offer, along with PoPs, and you SHOULD prioritize that ASAP once you start to get the ball rolling after the first year or so. IF you want to progress ASAP and get competitive (relative to your account's age and assets) to progress even further, that is.

With regard to progressing faster - I think there's a discussion to be had with regard to which begats strength faster: gaining as many girls as quickly as possible or gaining fewer but stronger girls. I fall in the latter camp, but I would say that the truth likely falls somewhere in the middle. If you manage to get 700 girls but nothing better than a 5* rare, the number of girls isn't going to help you be competitive. Likewise only having 30 girls but having them all be 6/5* Legendary+, you'll be able to form stronger teams more regularly, but are going to have weaker base stats. Both of these are extreme examples that are unlikely to occur, they are simply used to make a point.

I'm a year in, 100% f2p at Level 358, with 316 girls, 4 Mythics and 27 Legendary 5*. I'm very comfortably managing 16-30 in D2 every week. I have to plan carefully not to promote (following advice you provided previously regarding balancing the XP in the leagues). I could have had probably up to 50 more girls over the year if I'd went for fewer of the Legendary 5*s (and not hoarded orbs so aggressively), but a principal reason that I'm managing to compete comfortably in the 2nd top division is that I usually have to hand a decent number of the top 7 girls due to having so many Legendary 5*s. They are the backbone that allows me to compete despite there being very few players of lower level than me in D2 (only 4 this week which is about the norm).

Oh, and I completely agree - PoP are the thing that every player should prioritise. They come top of the stack for me, even above MD.

 

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

Nope. Whatever your end-game goal is, PvP is still a crucial and mandatory part of it if you want to get there sooner and better. Being competitive in PvP still leads to collecting more girls and resources and snowballing from there, even with the recent league reward nerfs and everything else.

I disagree here not because I disagree, but because it doesn't take into account the non-PvP approach and as such wasn't what I was trying to convey.

I completely get what you're saying, but there are a lot of players who are 'just here for the story' and who actively avoid the PvP aspects of the game. I, personally, don't really get it, but I accept that many people do think down this line. Talking about PvP for those players is a non-starter. They don't want to interact with other users at all. So accepting they just won't engage with this part of the game, for them unlocking scenes becomes the focus. 5*s carry little benefit for a player approaching the game in this manner, and more cheaper 3* is the better way for them to go. Yes, they could likely achieve more of that if they engaged with PvP, but that's not something they're going to do.

And I was NOT saying that LD is essential to being competitive. MD are. I was saying that I think picking up the new 5* Legendary that comes with the LD is a better way to get competitive quicker than PoA or even OD in terms of Koban investment. The 5* girls are simply a lot more useful and have greater impact on your ability to compete. I haven't until this point picked up every LD girl, but now that I have PoP maxed and can comfortably pick-up the Mythic girl each month with excess Kobans to spare, I will be looking to do so from this point on. PoA would for me come after that but only once I can comfortably secure Kobans beyond what was required for MD and LD. Quality over quantity has been a successful strategy for me up till now. 

[Beginner question : Best way to spend kobans ?]

I think there's another way to view the LD vs PoA/OD question.

I've been playing for just over a year. In that time there have been 6 new 5* Legendaries released via LD. In that time I do not recall seeing a single one of these girls in the MyP rotation. DvDivXXX maintains an excellent record of the rotations on the HH server (I'm on Nutaku) and again I don't see a single one of these 6 girls having appeared in MyP in the last year.

Now this could just be luck, or perhaps there is a delay before these girls get added to the MyP pool, but it is absolutely possible to have to wait years to collect a 5* girl that you missed on the LD if you are going to wait on them appearing in the MyP rotation. This dynamic, imo, makes them not that much different to the second path girls in PoA in terms of their availability after the event. While there are some efforts by KK to move in an 'exclusive' direction, there's not really a lot of reason to make 3*s exclusive. There's little special or covatable about them in the current game system, so while it hasn't happened yet it does not seem unreasonable to conclude they will reappear at some point. And given how long it can take to find the 5* in MyP, there's even a reasonable chance of that happening before you manage to collect the girl from MyP.

And the arguement about the passive bonuses for having a large harem size - if we go down this road you are balancing the passive bonuses against having the right girls. On the one hand you could have an extra 2-3 girls if you go PoA, moving those bonuses up fractionally every week, but it's likely to be years before these girls are useful to your PvP team when they get hit by a double blessing. On the other you could have a 5* that is more likely to end up being in the top 7 girls at some point in the near future as they generally only need a single blessing to get there. Imo the passive bonus will do you significantly less benefit than the 5*.

And then you have the cost. If we take @Bomba's figures above, LD 10% drop rate, 1-3 shard drops (so assuming that there's an equal chance of each, an average drop of 2), which means you need 50 drops or 500 Combativity. 192 natuarl regens. 308 additional fights at 1.8 Kobans/fight (Nutaku - 10.8 Kobans/fight HH). Total cost 555 Koban (or 3327). But that does not take into consideration the SP booster. If you use 3 SP it will require 34 drops, or 340 Combativity. 192 natural regens leave 148 additional fights at 1.8 Kobans/fight. Cost for Combativity 267 Koban, plus 270 Koban for the SP giving you a total of 537 (or 3222 on HH) which is a little cheaper than without SP booster. So, HH, the cost is closer to 3k than it is 4k and certainly no where near the 5.4k for 10xEP.  

It's also worth considering that the cost of one PoA actually covers 2 LD. So if it's an either or decision, you could miss every 4th PoA as there's usually only one LD every 2 months. Over the 4 months you could get 12 additional 3* girls playing all four PoA and missing LD, or 9 additional 3* girls and 2 5* (meaning 11 total) playing 3 PoA and 2 LD.

LD still costs more per girl than PoA (estimate around 350NK or 2100HHK/girl for PoA) but the decision then comes down to whether the additional spend on LD to get a 5* is more beneficial than getting more girls. For me, I'd rather have less girls and more 5*s, especially under the Awakening system. I realise some players are going for an 'upgrade all the commons as they're cheapest' strategy to allow them to break the various Awakening barriers as quickly as possible, but I'd rather spend gems efficiently, until we see whether there are going to be shortages, and upgrade the girls I'm actually likely to use frequently in my team. I have enough 5/6*s to pass the Awakening barrier immediately above me anyway and I'm going to end up upgrading these girls as I need them anyway. I'm not finding it difficult to sustain my performance in D2 as it is so feel no need to rush to Awaken past my current high (lvl 450). A little patience means no wasted gem spends on garbage girls. More girls are required for higher Awakenings, so to stick to my strategy I need to increase the number of 5/6* girls rather than gain extra 3s.

So the 'value' of the LD isn't a straight comparison to PoA or OD. If you're objective in the game is unlocking as many scenes as possible or collecting as many girls as possible, then the chances are that you're marginally better off spending your Koban on PoA or OD. If your objective is to compete in the PvP then (again imo) the LD are a far better investment.

Each to their own I guess. 

[Chit Chat]

7 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

This update is absolutely terrible. I don't think I'll bother giving Kinkoid time to fix this, I quit.

While I realise we've had our differences, and I do wish you would be a little more diplomatic in how you respond to other users - especially those that are clearly not as experienced or well informed as you - I am genuinely sad to hear this and hope you will reconsider. You have added a lot of value to the boards.

If not - I wish you the best in all your endeavours in the future!

[Leagues changes and New Rewards]

32 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

We don't really manage interactions, actually.

"Managing interactions" isn't a 'moderation' issue. It's nothing more than choosing how to approach a basic human social interaction in a manner that doesn't unnecessarily result in negative reactions. It's actually kind of what this entire dialogue has been about

[Leagues changes and New Rewards]

8 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

You're focusing on all the wrong details, here. There's a limited set of options in our toolkit. The important thing to take away from my moderating your post was that it was out of line for the reasons I explained, so I removed it and sent you a warning with extra efforts in my message to explain my reasoning to you, because we had misunderstandings before. And the one thing you took away from that is that you got one penalty point (which means very little, as I already told you) and the freaking category I picked from the Warning drop-down menu? =/ I'm honestly disappointed.

So am I. There's a lack of common sense being applied to how to manage interactions here. You posted the PS anyway, of course it puts people's backs up when you hand out a warning rather than making a polite request. But the point, as I said, is that I dropped that on the back of your explanation.

But it come back into play when it's quickly followed up by another poor choice. The reality is that I've watched thread after thread derailed by @GeorgeMTO's "blunt" approach to interacting with other users and I've even seen people here try to explain it away as 'that's just how he is'. That's facilitating bad behaviour and the reality is, it's actually making your job (and that of the other moderators) more difficult.

I'll be clear that I actually like and respect what I've seen of you, but I think you're falling on the wrong side of this one and frankly, where someone is allowed to engage in those behaviours repeatedly, it simply makes the forum an unpleasant experience to engage with.

[Leagues changes and New Rewards]

@DvDivXXX - tell you what - I'm out.

The first warning I took on the chin as a poorly chosen way of just saying 'please don't post multiple times in a row'. Could have been done via the P.S. instead of saying 'look at your profile page' where warning points were awarded for 'spamming'. Would have prevented the subsequent drama. But 'Abusive behaviour'? You've got a mod actively, and knowingly, provoking discord on the forums and you're sanctioning other users for getting annoyed about it. You're protecting the wrong people here.

It's been interesting contributing, but if that's the ethos of this forum I'll refrain from posting in future.

 

 

[Leagues changes and New Rewards]

18 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Yes, he's correct, and yes some of the in-game descriptions are either incomplete, insufficient or unclear, sometimes even misleading. But no, this doesn't belong in this here thread, because these are very well-known facts for most players in this thread. Please feel free to open a thread in the "Question & Answer" section for any general info you'd like clarification or pointers for.

I wasn't really asking for clarification. The entire issue was actually irrelevant to the point that was orginally made. That being that the value of these orbs is mostly held in the drop rate and it's really not that hard to compare the values of 10xEp vs single Eps as was suggested.

I simply addressed the points raised in response by @GeorgeMTO when they looked to highlight the errors in my rational, pointing out why I would have made the errors that they felt were significant. I would suggest that this is at least tangentially relevant to the discussion of the changes to the league given we've lost a 10xEp and gained single Ep orbs.

[Leagues changes and New Rewards]

1 hour ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Wrong. It can only give a girl, equipment or affection. No booster or book.

Well excuse me for relying on the in game information



I assume you are correct. However, if you are, the above in game information is incorrect or at least misleading as it uses multiple definitions of the word "Item".

 

1 hour ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Uh, based on the game's definition of item you're correct, but based on how you used the term 'item' in reference to the Ep single orb, wrong. You've used item above where the game would use equipment, but here item is apparently meant to cover every category? Self contradictory. I'm also not certain if the 3 guaranteed legendaries include all those categories, but I can't categorically call that one wrong.

Unnecessarily nit-picky and looking to find fault with an irrelevance rather than address the actual point which is that, as I made clear in the previous post, the real value for either the Ep or 10xEp is the drop rate of the girl. Epx10 gives a guaranteed girl. 10 single Ep orbs gives around a 52% chance of getting a girl. If the real value is in obtaining the girl and the rest are just nice extras, the EPx10 is clearly the more desirable of the two. You may have you're own opinion regarding the complexities of comparing the values, but that's all they are. My guess would be that most players would take a single 10xEp over 10 single Ep orbs any day of the week.

So yes, I agree with @Yuyureka that the overall value of the orbs is diminished in the new system, though not that this was done in an effort to mislead. And in my opinion I don't feel the value of the orbs are at all difficult to compare. But as already pointed out in my previous post, that the 10 single orbs are getting distributed over more players is probably more of a positive on the whole than having the single winner walk away with the 10xEp.

[Leagues changes and New Rewards]

38 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Is it really? Because yours is wrong too.

Wrong. It can only give a girl, equipment or affection. No booster or book.

Uh, based on the game's definition of item you're correct, but based on how you used the term 'item' in reference to the Ep single orb, wrong. You've used item above where the game would use equipment, but here item is apparently meant to cover every category? Self contradictory. I'm also not certain if the 3 guaranteed legendaries include all those categories, but I can't categorically call that one wrong.

 

Now yes, I'm aware I absolutely took you to an unnecessary level of detail, but that's why I said it was hard to do, because there's always going to be a corner case you've missed if you're trying to be brief.

I'm actually going to step off point here as I don't see the point in discussing the matter when you seem to take the tone shown in the last couple of messages as default.

To my mind a moderator should be trying to facilitate an open and pleasant discourse. Encourage learning amongst those who are not as experienced as you while trying to cool down the naturally occurring exchanges that are negative to the forum. If your interactions are enflaming negative exchanges rather than cooling them down, you probably need to spend some time considering about how your messages are likely to be received. Where a moderator fails to do this, they're not really serving their intended purpose.

It wasn't the level of detail that was unnecessary, it's the lack of respect you show that seems to come over in so many of your posts.

[Leagues changes and New Rewards]

3 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

It's also misleading to conflate the 10 games orb with 10 single orbs. The multi pull functionality in all Kinkoid pachinkos don't actually do multiple single pulls. It refers to the number of rewards you get, which have different rules for what they can grant. It's very hard to write a description that captures the distinction, as you've just indicated by not doing so yourself.

It's not that difficult.

An Ep orb gives a small chance of a girl and a high chance of a Legendary item/booster/exp/affection.

A 10xEp give a guaranteed girl, 3 Legendary items and 6 other items, some of which may only be epic.

The real value in the Ep orbs is the girl. So given that the drop rate is around 6-7% (around one in 14ish orbs), the 10xEp is by comparison offering an improved drop rate on the value result (10%). I don't think it's at all unfair to compare 10 single EP orbs to one 10xEp. Imo it actually short changes the 10xEp a fair bit.

However, it doesn't really make that much difference as the 10xEp was effectively going to the same small group of players each week, where more single orbs will be distributed over more players.

[Leagues changes and New Rewards]

Shards - I have to admit, the shard drops for S1-3 do seem a bit redundant. Without using a promote/demote strategy it's effectively impossible for players in these leagues to get the girl in 6 weeks. If you're good enough to play S3 consistently at 16-30, drop down to S1 take #1, take a #2-4 in S2 and then take 4 weeks at #16-30 in S3 and you'll end on exactly 100 shards. You would then need to miss 2 weeks to demote down to S1 again, meaning that you have no chance in the next 6 weeks of getting the girl, not to mention the drop in Kobans for missing weeks and playing in lower leagues. And that doesn't mention the risks of dropping down and someone slightly stronger in your S1 league using the same strategy as you and missing out on that #1 spot, meaning your 6 week plan comes to an end in week 1.

For players in the S1-3 leagues, the shards are not a real reward imo. Their an illusion that will cause more frustration than benefit. Especially given that there will be no further opportunities to get additional shards for these girls (if KK actually hold to the 'exclusivity' road they now seem to be going down with both Mythics and league girls).

Worship - The Worship is nice right now, but as many others have highlighted has an expiry date. There are currently 2000 levels. With 10 Worship/day, that's 200 days before Worship becomes a worthless commodity. A little less that 7 months. I realise that KK will open new levels, but then the question becomes 'at what point do the levels become unbeatable?' If, as with the likes of Tire 3 of Pandora's Witch, it becomes non-achievable to advance, Worship again becomes a worthless prize. So 6 months from now my suspicion would be that players in D3, and maybe D2, may still find the Worship useful, but lower than that I suspect will have topped out.

Kisses - This doesn't make a lot of difference to me as I've been able to comfortably manage to complete tire 51 of Seasons before the start of the Legendary Contests every month since my 4th (and in the first 3 months I wasn't playing as well and didn't need to achieve that to pick-up the girl on the LCs). I also see the KC as out of reach for the present time. I understand that for those who seriously want to challenge for the KCs the reduction in Kisses is a significant loss, though I suspect one that could be made up for with even more Champion performances (sigh - more time on game) as I'd guess there's a significant overlap between the f2p players competing for the KC and those who find they have more tickets than they can use.

Kobans - Somewhat of a double edged sword. Did the leagues need to be rebalanced? Yes. The reduction in Kobans takes a lot of resources away from the top 'dominant' players and gives more to the players further down. Robin Hooding. That's a positive. But thinking about it, those huge potential rewards were a big part of the incentive to strive to compete for those top spots in D3. As @holymolly pointed out, it seems likely that p2p players will take the D3 top 4 more often now and many other players will settle to the 'easier' road of 5-15 or even 16-30.

And the truth is that  the Kobans weren't really the problem anymore. They used to be, when the Mythics were so expensive. They meant that the D3 winners would always get the Mythics and the rest of us would likely have to go month about at best. But the SP booster changed that. It's now possible for even a f2p player in a lower league (D1/2) to pick-up the Mythics if they're prepared to miss some of the other events.

What really needs to be rebalanced in the harem sizes. Especially with the new BDSM giving the huge harems more options for making the best team and the Elements meaning maxed bonuses for the huge harems. There's never going to come a day where KK remove girls from players to try and rebalance it, so it has to come from providing opportunities for lower level players to 'catch-up'. Elements kind of does this in the same way as the 500 level cap does, by stopping the top players pulling even further ahead. Once you get to 100 of each type, getting more girls isn't growing your bonuses any. But nerfing all of the ways that the lower players could gather girls to catch up (bye bye orbs) has undone that. And adding a few extra orbs to the leagues certainly won't fix that.

Overall I'm in the middle on this. I'll lose around 16/96 Koban/month. Not enough to worry about. I can comfortably pick up a girl every 6 weeks, with a couple of weeks to spare. I hope/suspect it'll be a 5* Legendary and I've made my views clear on the value of them. The Koban reduction is a pittance to pick one up. But I'm not sure that the change really achieves the desire effect and I can understand why lower league players who are not feasibly going to be able to get the girl are going to be very frustrated with this 'reward'.