The truth about affection changes with the update

[Asherandai]

I am posting this separately to gather all the correct information in one easily accessible place, instead of trawling through pages of replies. A lot of the complaints about the new affection system seem to be based on extremely inaccurate and massively incomplete information. I can’t affect people’s opinions, but I can at least provide correct and reasonably accurate information with which to form those opinions. For anyone who has read my previous replies to people, I will be using a calculator instead of working it out in my head in order to improve accuracy. With that said let’s begin:

Affection items have been reduced in the numerical value with which they provide. For this I will be using the largest affection item commonly available, the rare (green) panties. Prior to the update they provided 1,560 affection, after the update they provide 100 affection.

1,560/100 = a reduction factor of 15.6

However girls have also had the affection they require reduced. Using the very first girl, Bunny, as the base value for required affection let’s see how that looks. Prior to the update she required 14,950 affection to reach grade 3, after the update she requires 215 affection to reach grade 3. Grades 4 & 5 are brand new and have no comparative values, so cannot be used to compare.

14,950/215 = a reduction factor of 69.5348837, lets round that to 69.5

This is massively more than the reduction of affection items, which greatly increases their VALUE. But we all know their cost was increased right? Well let’s take a look. Prior to the update the panties cost approximately 36,000 (if anyone has the exact figure feel free to tell me), following the update panties cost 41,701.

69.5/15.6 = 4.45512821, which I’ll round to 4.455. this is a 445.5% increase in the VALUE.

41,701/36,000 = 1.15836111, which I’ll round to 1.158. this is a 115.8% increase in the COST.

The VALUE of panties has increased drastically more than the COST of panties. This is not even mentioning Pachinko which while random will almost always provide far more than buying directly from the market. Unless your luck is god-awful bad… but then nothing can help you.

 

Now, there is another change to affection that needs to be considered. Namely the increasing amount of affection required for each progressive girl you receive. This works on a very simple multiple basis, girl 1 affection needed is multiplied by 1, girl 2 affection needed is multiplied by 2, and so on. So how does this work with the reduction factors? At what point does the reduction of items become greater than that of the girls? Let’s examine.

Girl 2: affection required = 215*2 = 430.                 14,950/430 = 34.7674419 rounded to 34.8

Girl 3: affection required = 215*3 = 645.                 14,950/645 = 23.1782946 rounded to 23.2

Girl 4: affection required = 215*4 = 860.                 14,950/860 = 17.3837209 rounded to 17.4

Girl 5: affection required = 215*5 = 1,075.             14,950/1,075 = 13.9069767 rounded to 13.9

So at girl 5 we have our break point. It is here that things start to look bad right? Well… no. Because there is still something that needs to be factored in. Something that is the entire point of all the changes. Time.

Obviously the time we each take to accomplish various goals in the game is different for each of us. Someone who only logs on once each day is not going to progress as fast as someone who logs on 5 times throughout the day. So we need something that can be compared universally across everyone. That is the amount of time logged to the game, which I am going to call the time factor.

There is one more thing we need to find this time factor, and that is the income. Income can vary quite a lot depending on exactly what you do, which girls you receive and how many, so in order to apply this we need an average income per girl with all girls at the same grade. I am going to use grade 3 since all my girls are at grade 3, except Bunny and Juliette who are at grade 4 but as I said earlier grade 4 is brand new and therefore cannot be used in comparisons. I have 11 other girls at grade 3, if you have more you will be able to achieve a more accurate average, but the principles and calculations will remain the same.

(2,000.31 + 2,300 + 1,270.41 + 1,270.13 + 1,270.07 + 1,270.15 + 1,270.1 + 1,270.67 + 2,300.49 + 1,260.92 + 1,270)/11 = an average of 1,523.02273, rounded to 1,523.

Now that we have our income value, in order to find the time factor we have to compare the affection required with the income. Since the cost of affection items never change they will not impact the time factor, and since the girl we are upgrading is not at grade 3 she will not be included in the average I am using. This means I cannot calculate a time factor for the first girl while keeping a universal average.

Girl 2: (2*215)/(1*1,523) = a time factor of 0.28233749

Girl 3: (3*215)/(2*1,523) = a time factor of 0.21175312

Girl 4: (4*215)/(3*1,523) = a time factor of 0.18822499

Girl 5: (5*215)/(4*1,523) = a time factor of 0.17646093

So we’ve reached our break point, and what we see is that the time it takes reach grade 3 is still reducing. But how does this compare to before the update? Well before the update the affection required was fixed so that’s easy. The girls also provided a bit more money, exactly how much more I’m uncertain on. Guesses people have made is that they now provide from 80% to 60% of the previous values. I’m going to use the one I’ve seen the most people claiming, 60%, but it’ll work the same with any value.

1,523/0.60 = gives us an estimated previous average of 2,538 to work with. So….

Girl 2: 14,950/(1*2,538) = a time factor of 5.89046493

Girl 3: 14,950/(2*2,538) = a time factor of 2.94523247

Girl 4: 14,950/(3*2,538) = a time factor of 1.96348831

Girl 5: 14,950/(4*2,538) = a time factor of 1.47261623

Well this shows that it is far easier and quicker to upgrade girls with the new update. And that’s without including the fact that prior to the update girls were the only notable source of income, whereas after the update we have several notable sources of income. But this isn’t the entire picture either. We need to take a quick look at the larger number of girls.

Girl 50 pre-update: 14,950/(49*2,538) = a time factor of 0.12021357

Girl 50 post-update: (50*215)/(49*1,523) = a time factor of 0.14404974

Well now, we’ve gone all the way to girl number 50 and pre-update time is BARELY less than post update time. Post update time is also far more consistent and accounts for all factors much better. There is also the cost of the upgrade screen itself that increases, but it follows the exact same formula so including would not alter the results much if at all, and would also mean we would need to include EVERYTHING else from battle and mission earnings to pachinko results. Frankly I don’t have enough data to do all that, and it would make this 100 times longer.

If you’ve actually read this far, congratulations. You now have accurate and complete information with which to form your opinion. Math doesn’t lie.

[Hans]

Holy... fucking... shit..................................................................................................................................................... mind exploded X_X

[Tristelune]

Interesting post, Asherandai. I've tried to proof-read it, and I didn't notice any remarkable flaw in your reasoning with the following exception:

• If you take into account the upgrade scenes costs, I think the threshold at which the former system become more interesting than the new system is (much?) lower. I didn't do the math though, by lack of time at the moment...

Maybe someone more able than me can identify other mistakes.

You also omit the matter of actually being able to buy the panties, though. Sure, your demonstration was all about the financial reality of it. But the practical aspect of finding enough panties to buy might turn out to be the real issue for players with a lot of girls.

[Sarkasth]

 

 

 

[Asherandai]

32 minutes ago, Tristelune said:

Interesting post, Asherandai. I've tried to proof-read it, and I didn't notice any remarkable flaw in your reasoning with the following exception:

• If you take into account the upgrade scenes costs, I think the threshold at which the former system become more interesting than the new system is (much?) lower. I didn't do the math though, by lack of time at the moment...

Maybe someone more able than me can identify other mistakes.

You also omit the matter of actually being able to buy the panties, though. Sure, your demonstration was all about the financial reality of it. But the practical aspect of finding enough panties to buy might turn out to be the real issue for players with a lot of girls.

as i stated in my post i didn't include the scenes themselves because i do not have the relevant data to properly calculate it. but you would also need to calculate the difference in earnings from bosses and missions, which are massive. again i don't have enough data to do those properly right now, but the short version shows around a 4,250% increase in these earnings. possibly even increasing with later stage bosses.

 

oh... and as far as buying panties and such: Pachinko.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Asherandai

[Sarkasth]

11 minutes ago, Asherandai said:

as i stated in my post i didn't include the scenes themselves because i do not have the relevant data to properly calculate it.

the costs to unlock the scenes?

star 1:  n x 3.15k
star 2:  n x 6.75k
star 3:  n x 18k

[Asherandai]

3 minutes ago, Sarkasth said:

the costs to unlock the scenes?

star 1:  n x 3.15k
star 2:  n x 6.75k
star 3:  n x 18k

these for bunny?

and can you confirm the costs for girls 2 & 3 to ensure the formula is the same? (oh god... i'm going to have to do all of it aren't i...)

edit: i would also need the average winnings from several bosses before and after the update. i only have ninja's average to work with right now.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Asherandai

[Sarkasth]

5 minutes ago, Asherandai said:

these for bunny?

these for all girs. n is the number of girls u have

 

for the boss question: 

edwarda 9k

donatien 12k

sylvanus 15k

bremen 20k

 

(didnt fight much so its a very rough "avarage"

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Sarkasth

[Asherandai]

1 minute ago, Sarkasth said:

these for all girs. n is the number of girls u have

so you can confirm it is the same formula. i was fairly sure it was but i didn't have data to confirm with.

i would also need the average winnings from several bosses before and after the update. i only have ninja's averages before and after to work with right now.

[Tristelune]

Asherandai, Sarkasth edited his post with the average winnings. It seems you didn't notice.

[EvilSneasel]

You included that Harem now gives 60% income. You also said you could buy aff items (rare panties) from market or do pachinko, however you seem to not take into account that monetary cost. You mentioned the cost of aff items is higher but they are also more effective so it shouldn't matter. Pachinko costs more when you lvl up (1,000/lvl) and the items you obtain sell back for much less than base value. The cost of aff items, pachinko, aff upgrades (which you seemed to exclude) to lvl aff from 1*-3* is much higher than the income that can be raised w/ current resources: Harem, Combativity (15 max), and Missions. The real problem is gaining the money necessary to increase the aff of characters, which should always be a problem since the cost raises per character. The affection system has become inefficient and a money sink; seeing as it takes months (in extreme cases over a yr) of constant efficiency gathering characters donations to make any profit from your purchase. Take sleep and other reasons to not be able to collect donations and it could easily take years for a character to gain back the money spent in aff and aff upgrade costs. It could be argued we don't lvl up aff for monetary profit but for the scene, character model, or stat boost, but may a remind you can see 3* scene w/o paying for aff upgrade and the models can be seen elsewhere (I think a wiki) so those shouldn't be the reason to ruin yourself financially in the game. The stat boost really is unnecessary especially if you can beat all trolls because PvP is still as useless as ever. In conclusion, it may take much longer much more pointless grinding on what should be an idle game than you think to get characters 3*.

[UnwrappedGodiva]

Thanks EvilSneasel.  I was preparing a larger post explaining that Asherandai has forgotten to take several things into account (such as the fact that Pachinko costs more when you level up or that the resell value of the items is much lower now) but I am glad that you already mentioned some of these points.

To be clear: for a new player who has only a few girls, the game is really easier now.  The first half of Asherandai's post is correct and shows this positive trend. But unfortunately it does not take into account all the constraints that affect a high-level player who has reached world 8 and who has a large harem.  I will try to provide more details when I have a bit more time tonight...

[Asherandai]

27 minutes ago, EvilSneasel said:

You included that Harem now gives 60% income. You also said you could buy aff items (rare panties) from market or do pachinko, however you seem to not take into account that monetary cost. You mentioned the cost of aff items is higher but they are also more effective so it shouldn't matter. Pachinko costs more when you lvl up (1,000/lvl) and the items you obtain sell back for much less than base value. The cost of aff items, pachinko, aff upgrades (which you seemed to exclude) to lvl aff from 1*-3* is much higher than the income that can be raised w/ current resources: Harem, Combativity (15 max), and Missions. The real problem is gaining the money necessary to increase the aff of characters, which should always be a problem since the cost raises per character. The affection system has become inefficient and a money sink; seeing as it takes months (in extreme cases over a yr) of constant efficiency gathering characters donations to make any profit from your purchase. Take sleep and other reasons to not be able to collect donations and it could easily take years for a character to gain back the money spent in aff and aff upgrade costs. It could be argued we don't lvl up aff for monetary profit but for the scene, character model, or stat boost, but may a remind you can see 3* scene w/o paying for aff upgrade and the models can be seen elsewhere (I think a wiki) so those shouldn't be the reason to ruin yourself financially in the game. The stat boost really is unnecessary especially if you can beat all trolls because PvP is still as useless as ever. In conclusion, it may take much longer much more pointless grinding on what should be an idle game than you think to get characters 3*.

i didn't include calculations for pachinko or selling items because pre-update pachinko and the market were broken. it was so easy to play pachinko and sell in the market for profit that cash was literally infinite. i scored over a million points in the casino contest at around lv15 and finished with way more money than i started with. you cannot compare infinity against numerical values, the same reason i didn't show a calculation for girl 1. honestly, i thought that was obvious and didn't need mentioning. thats the reason i used the value and market cost to show items were not more expensive.

 

also, i can only assume you're referring to the brand new feature of an extra 2 affection levels, since the math clearly shows that is not true for grades 1-3, and as i already stated they cannot be compared because there is nothing to compare them against. if you really want to nitpick you could also refer to the extra money you save early on, but that doesn't help your case either.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Asherandai

[EvilSneasel]

I'm not trying to say the old way was good or w/o flaw but the game is ruined now due to the time and effort a.k.a. grind it has been turned into. I suppose I should also add I don't want the game to be effortless but it's way too grindy now especially since it's supposed to be an idle game.

Edited August 25, 2017 by EvilSneasel

[Asherandai]

45 minutes ago, Sarkasth said:

for the boss question: 

edwarda 9k

donatien 12k

sylvanus 15k

bremen 20k

 

(didnt fight much so its a very rough "avarage"

 

do you have a rough average from before the update? i need something to compare it against

[Asherandai]

3 minutes ago, EvilSneasel said:

I'm not trying to say the old way was good or w/o flaw but the game is ruined now due to the time and effort a.k.a. grind it has been turned into. I suppose I should also add I don't want the game to be effortless but it's way too grindy now especially since it's supposed to be an idle game.

i really don't understand how you can say its grindy when there is nothing to grind with. and i already accounted for not logging on often with the time factor, AKA time spent in game.

[Sarkasth]

1 minute ago, Asherandai said:

do you have a rough average from before the update? i need something to compare it against

fortunately for u i have:

edwarda awful

donatien awful

sylvanus awful

bremen awful

 

money from bosses before the rebalance is kinda negligible. Main income was the harem. The bosses didnt really matter at all.

[Asherandai]

9 minutes ago, Sarkasth said:

fortunately for u i have:

edwarda awful

donatien awful

sylvanus awful

bremen awful

 

money from bosses before the rebalance is kinda negligible. Main income was the harem. The bosses didnt really matter at all.

i guess i'll work something out...

last thing, the grade 3 cost Pre-update, was that 135k? i'm not sure i have that right

[UnwrappedGodiva]

Before the update, the value of the items dropped by the bosses was usually (much) higher than the amount of money that they were dropping directly.  I will check if I find some statistics, but it is right that the money was awful. On the other hand, it was very nice to get some epic dragon boots or godly abs from time to time.

[EvilSneasel]

22 minutes ago, Asherandai said:

i didn't include calculations for pachinko or selling items because pre-update pachinko and the market were broken. it was so easy to play pachinko and sell in the market for profit that cash was literally infinite. i scored over a million points in the casino contest at around lv15 and finished with way more money than i started with. you cannot compare infinity against numerical values, the same reason i didn't show a calculation for girl 1. honestly, i thought that was obvious and didn't need mentioning. thats the reason i used the value and market cost to show items were not more expensive.

 

also, i can only assume you're referring to the brand new feature of an extra 2 affection levels, since the math clearly shows that is not true for grades 1-3, and as i already stated they cannot be compared because there is nothing to compare them against. if you really want to nitpick you could also refer to the extra money you save early on, but that doesn't help your case either.

While the cost to get 1*-3* in aff items and upgrades isn't particularly large when your a newb the higher collective amount of girls you have (the longer you play) the amont money it takes gets unreasonable you used getting a 50th girl 3*; the money in aff items and upgrade is ridiculous for the small amount you get back and the easily calculated average a dedicated player can make in one day. I'm not saying you should be able to max a character in a day if you don't have a large amount of money stored but at this rate that large amount of money stored would spend too quickly and refill too slowly. Really you could store up a 5mil and blow it on one character if you have enough characters, and it's not like those characters are the main source of income anymore.

Edited August 25, 2017 by EvilSneasel

[Sarkasth]

4 minutes ago, Asherandai said:

i guess i'll work something out...

last thing, the grade 3 cost Pre-update, was that 135k? i'm not sure i have that right

it was 1k....10k....45k

[EvilSneasel]

3 minutes ago, Asherandai said:

i guess i'll work something out...

last thing, the grade 3 cost Pre-update, was that 135k? i'm not sure i have that right

Pre-update cost was 1*=1,000, 2*=10,000, 3*=45,000 for a total of 56,000

 

[EvilSneasel]

17 minutes ago, Asherandai said:

i really don't understand how you can say its grindy when there is nothing to grind with. and i already accounted for not logging on often with the time factor, AKA time spent in game.

Grindy as in not enough money can be made unless your on super often, getting on once or twice a day is no longer viable for making much progress.

[Asherandai]

4 minutes ago, EvilSneasel said:

While the cost to get 1*-3* in aff items and upgrades isn't particularly large when your a newb the higher collective amount of girls you have (the longer you play) the amont money it takes gets unreasonable you used getting a 50th girl 3*; the money in aff items and upgrade is ridiculous for the small amount you get back and the easily calculated average a dedicated player can make in one day. I'm not saying you should be able to max a character in a day if you don't have a large amount of money stored but at this rate that large amount of money stored would spend too quickly and refill too slowly. Really you could store up a 5mil and blow it on one character if you have enough characters, and it's not like those characters are the main source of income anymore.

fair enough, but what else are you gonna do with the cash? stat points? completely worthless right now due to arena faults. maybe equipment? both equipment and affection items come from the same source, pachinko. you can literally do both without spending anything extra except the scenes themselves.

i'm struggling to think of another place to blow cash... anything i've missed?

[EvilSneasel]

1 minute ago, Asherandai said:

fair enough, but what else are you gonna do with the cash? stat points? completely worthless right now due to arena faults. maybe equipment? both equipment and affection items come from the same source, pachinko. you can literally do both without spending anything extra except the scenes themselves.

i'm struggling to think of another place to blow cash... anything i've missed?

This wouldn't be a problem if ppl had cash to blow but as I said the problem is the income who wants to blow a weeks worth of cash on one thing, I know a lot of ppl are putting spending cash and selling stuff on hold hoping for a another re-balance.