Wicked X-mas Event - choosing the best girl and discussing

[Zorba the Geek]

7 hours ago, Falco82 said:

You are always confused, but my judgment wasn't on the subject but on the technique, and technically there are various errors.

As I said the shot: even if you didn't see the other poses (I do) you see it in the first of Brittany where the bust looks bigger than the legs. It's a technical choice, but in addition to being badly done, it doesn't coincide with the poses of any other girl made so far, and this creates inequality (please artist don't try it again).

In addition, even the hands (it's the hardest thing to draw, every artist can confirm it, so I can pass over it but it's important) are wrong in both Brittany and Cifra first poses (but not only). I don't expect you to understand, but trust me, I know something about drawings and certain things get you up from the chair (certainly even the wrong feet, it's exactly the same impression of "weird").

We will see the next drawings, but the difference with those before currently is noticeable.

I haven't got Brittany so I can't comment specifically, if you're talking about proportionality, you might recall that the previous artist was experimenting with perspective and didn't get things right one little bit.  The perspective was as if the image was taken through a 30mm lens (wide-angle).  Take a look at Festival Bonny and Hope where the parts of their bodies closest to us appear disproportionately larger.  This is the classic wide-angle lens effect.  From what I've seen of Brittany's first pose the view is from slightly above her.  Naturally her bust would look disproportionately bigger than her legs in that case, if the artist followed the same approach.

In reality, the human eye has an equivalent to a 35mm camera of a lens focal length of between 60 and 70mm, longer than most camera lenses which are 50mm.  Most artists, in trying to be faithful to what the camera is seeing, are not being faithful to what the eye sees and therefore tend to create body shapes that are grossly out of proportion as we would view them.

I sure agree with you about hands, from my own experience.  It took me several years to master drawing them, important because hands are a very expressive part of one's personality and emotions.  Regarding hands, just remember the previous artist really made a mess of them, too, at times.

[Zorba the Geek]

54 minutes ago, jelom said:

Well, it seems we have a lot of artists here, perhaps Kinkoid should open a post for some collaboration in a special event with the girls drawed by players ...

Yes!  I've thought of that too.  Remember those awful drawings and affection scenes of Bunny's and Juliette's final two stars?  Clearly a different artist who had no respect for character continuity.  And I do remember confirmation that Loving Justine was created by a different artist, a woman apparently (info from Jessie Chan).  I also believe she was only temporary which was a real shame because what she produced was fantastic - both faithful and original.

Re. an open forum for artists, one exists already, but what you specifically proposed is a great idea.  Then we'll see won't we!  All those people who have criticised the current artist might be challenged to put their pens where their mouths are, I among them.  HH would probably get in-game artwork for free with this approach then we might face a riot from the professional artists associated with the company.

[jelom]

 @Zorba the Geek, be careful or @Bomba will steal your title of the longest post ever 🤣

[Zorba the Geek]

On 12/5/2019 at 11:38 AM, jelom said:

 @Zorba the Geek, be careful or @Bomba will steal your title of the longest post ever 🤣

I don't think so.  I have a certain reputation to protect.

-------------------------------------------

Yes, Bomba would've outdone me forever.  I don't think even I had ever managed to create a whole page of commentary.  That being said, I really enjoyed his post and he made some great points - and with good humour too (laugh out loud for me).  Also, to be fair, he was combining quite a number of responses from members in one post.  I hope HH and Kinkoid read his post because it is worth taking a lot of notice of.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Zorba the Geek
add text

[Sefiroth]

Well, since there's art feedback going on, here's my 2 cents. I think Far West (remember how hotly contested the poll was for the best girl?) and Halloween girls were pretty amazing. Recent monthly pachinko girls decent to great. In this particular case Lee Lee and Hateya are too cartoonish for my taste (and even so that booty on the first pose redeems Lee Lee for me), but then there're (all these) other girls that I like. So variety is good and I can't fault neither style nor approach of mixing it up. Variety is the spice of life, isn't it? 🤷‍♂️

Edited December 4, 2019 by Sefiroth

[Zorba the Geek]

Won't we all be terribly embarrassed if the artist we have been commenting on turned out to be the original one trying something different (as he has done in the past).  However, that being said and assuming the artist is new, he/she has fallen into the trap of experimenting with strange perspective distortions (the wide-angle lens effect).  We talked about this with Baker Brittany and now we see it in the final pose of Santa Claudia 3 (with Hateya thrown in for good measure).  Their heads and torsos look very out of proportion.

I suggest that the artist give this technique away, even though a lot of the work for this event has been first class.  It seriously didn't work for Festival Bonny or Hope, nor did it work for Baker Brittany or Santa Claudia 3.  Ironically, where the artist used the perspective technique to draw booty, this has worked really well just as it has with porn stars photographed from the rear.  Even for girls whose rear ends are rather unspectacular can suddenly become very sexually flattered in this way.  What I really mean is, there has to be a purpose for creating perspective distortion and I didn't see a purpose for the examples I gave here.

Anyway, to answer the ultimate question, who was my favourite girl?  Of the girls I was able to assess I found Lee Lee to be most appealing (cuteness personified in a very unusual way), but the affection scenes for all the three girls who were not Pachinko-only were outstanding.  I can't comment on the Pachinko girls.

[satmony]

HI

[DHarry]

On 12/2/2019 at 1:32 PM, Zorba the Geek said:

Always loved Claudia, but not this version.  To me Claudia's best version is her second one.  Same with Sifra.  Her original form was really cute and sexy with a great hairstyle.  However, I'll withhold my choice of 'best girl' until I'm able to see them in more advanced poses.  Lee Lee looks really cute and I agree about her eyes, but her nose gives her a toy or puppet quality.  I don't like the others, but Hateya seems determined to join my harem, giving me a wood whenever I try for her.  Got her to x53 in one account already, but Lee Lee is much more coy.  She's driving me mad!  Sylvia's ointment is very handy, giving my poor dick a new lease of life between rounds.

Sifra is one of my favourite girls, but the new artist didn't capture her cuteness. She looks weird now, disturbingly so. I like this Claudia though. 

[Lemus]

I see I'm not the only one who didn't like the girls' poses at all this time. Hopefully, as the theme has been noticed by the developers of the game, the artists will make more efforts in the future to maintain its style, appeal and sexuality for the players.

By the way, probably as a result of some bug, but through the bots of the arena you can see the poses of new girls for the game. So far, I've been able to look at four of them and say that I like them much more than in this event. Two are just good, one is very good, and one is "I want her in the harem right here and right now".

[Zorba the Geek]

That was that!  I got all three non-Pachinko girls in every account.  Now onto the Xmas revival (yet another one!), at least if the calendar is to be believed.

I stick to my earlier opinion that Lee Lee was the best girl being VERY cute in an unusual way.  From the wiki I was able to see the poses of all the girls and the greatest disappointment to me was Sifra.  I agree entirely with DHarry that Sifra lost just about all of her cuteness, and her artwork suggests a new artist, and I'll explain why I feel this... Boobs!!  In her final pose the original Sifra had the cutest, perkiest little titties that matched her pretty face and petite body perfectly.  The new artist was unable to capture this necessary feminine persona and, while that artist was able to draw boobs really well, the great diversity that is the female breast has not been captured or progressed in any of the girls I saw.  The original Sifra was Manga: long hair down to the bum crack, but with cute face and eyes, and side-plaited hairstyle.  In her final pose 'the boobs have it'.  Not so her xmas version.  Having said that I cannot comment on her affection scenes and, if the examples of the three non-Pachinko girls are any indication, she may be an improvement on those for her original version (apart from her second affection scene where she is especially beautiful and well posed).

Then there is this down-view perspective distortion I alluded to earlier.  This technique did not work for a cartoon so I suggest the artist drop it forthwith.  The great thing about the 'ideal' female body shape is hips that can bear a child easily and a perspective distortion that emphasises this (eg a very nice bum and waiting pussy) is very appealing to me.  When the perspective creates a distortion that resembles the classic male inverted triangle with short, little legs and feet then it ceases to be feminine and, to my eye, is not very sexy.  If in the final pose of Claudia this perspective technique had not been used, Claudia might've moved up my list but that pose ruined it for me and there was too much emphasis on large heads and faces (Claudia's and Hateya's) that weren't even particularly pretty, but there was no indication from the artwork that this anomaly was intended.

[Falco82]

New demonstration of the little care that new girls are receiving: Melissa.

Good the first pose (we don't talk about the third one 😅), in the second one the only visible hand is inverted (from that pose you should see the thumb, not the little finger).

It's not the only mistake but this is the most blatant.

The difference in the design of the artists is also seen in the image that the pachinko offers us: the same pose for Bass and Selene. Old character, complex, expressive, perfect hands, well-drawn breast. New character, synthetic, sketchy, hands positioned to be as covered as possible, misshapen breasts with randomly placed nipples.

Here we need a change of course, I'm sorry for the new artist but we need to go back to having more quality, I think that's also why people spend money on this game.

[DvDivXXX]

2 hours ago, Falco82 said:

Here we need a change of course, I'm sorry for the new artist but we need to go back to having more quality

I couldn't agree more! The contrast between the two girls in the same pose speaks for itself. They need to steer away from this super impersonal, over simplified pokemon style, and go back to the tasty, very appealing mix of classic European and 80's comic book styles with some manga/anime influence, aka the visual style they've built the game upon, and that the vast majority of girls (especially the best ones) have been drawn in.

Sure, the game has "hentai" in the name, but it's never been about gigantic eyes and lines so thin you can barely make out any shape without the help of colors. Go back to expressive, more realistic drawings! Not photo-realistic either, but not vague forms with no details at all like the newest girls. Please, KK! Buy a new stock of India ink, and get artists who know how to use it.

Edited December 22, 2019 by DvDivXXX

[Chthugha]

"Get artists who know how to use it"... I don't think it is that easy. Finding an artist for a game like this is already a hard task, and then we are not even talking about being able to draw in the same style as Ben. I think we should give this artist time to adapt.

[Bomba]

9 hours ago, Falco82 said:

The difference in the design of the artists is also seen in the image that the pachinko offers us: the same pose for Bass and Selene. Old character, complex, expressive, perfect hands, well-drawn breast. New character, synthetic, sketchy, hands positioned to be as covered as possible, misshapen breasts with randomly placed nipples.

Here we need a change of course, I'm sorry for the new artist but we need to go back to having more quality, I think that's also why people spend money on this game.

Yes! Thank you for pointing it out. It's good to have someone with a professional eye, who can actually point out all those things. All I can see is that's it weird. Without any understanding of why it's weird.

9 hours ago, Falco82 said:

New demonstration of the little care that new girls are receiving: Melissa.

Good the first pose (we don't talk about the third one 😅), in the second one the only visible hand is inverted (from that pose you should see the thumb, not the little finger).

It's not the only mistake but this is the most blatant.

And this... honestly I think we need a proper thread for all this things. It's not just an art that some people don't like. It's at the point were it's no longer a viable art at all, because of the amount of mistakes.

[DvDivXXX]

3 hours ago, Chthugha said:

"Get artists who know how to use it"... I don't think it is that easy. Finding an artist for a game like this is already a hard task, and then we are not even talking about being able to draw in the same style as Ben. I think we should give this artist time to adapt.

Wait a minute... Do you mean to say that there used to be only one person doing all of the art for this game? And now it's a different person, but still just one?!

If so, it would explain many things (like the many rookie mistakes with hands and feet, and the many rushed sketches in the adventure) but it also raises many new questions (like why do they refer to their artists as a plural, and why do they have multiple job offers for artists open at any given time)...

But most importantly: do you mean that the same artist drew excellent stuff like Santa Claudia 3, maybe even solid stuff like the Western girls and the batch with Semana in it, and also terrible stuff like Melissa and Selene?!

If that's the case, then the latter must have been rushed as hell (and even then, it's a completely different graphic style, so they were probably also experimenting at the same time).

Edited December 22, 2019 by DvDivXXX

[Chthugha]

5 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

Wait a minute... Do you mean to say that there used to be only one person doing all of the art for this game? And now it's a different person, but still just one?!

If so, it would explain many things (like the many rookie mistakes with hands and feet, and the many rushed sketches in the adventure) but it also raises many new questions (like why do they refer to their artists as a plural, and why do they have multiple job offers for artists open at any given time)...

But most importantly: do you mean that the same artist drew excellent stuff like Santa Claudia 3, maybe even solid stuff like the Western girls and the batch with Semana in it, and also terrible stuff like Melissa and Selene?!

If that's the case, then the latter must have been rushed as hell (and even then, it's a completely different graphic style, so they were probably also experimenting at the same time).

Nono, there are more than one, but those had a style closer to Ben's. But there was this phase last year where some of the affection scenes were terrible and to me all the faces suddenly looked the same (especially with the permanent pachinko girls). That one also got better with time. Look at the original art of Ben. That was not great as well. But this game is drawn in a certain style. This person might have to adapt his technique to fit the game better. That takes some time. So what I am saying; give this artist time to adapt, and hopefully in time the art will be better suited to this game.
I won't go as far as to say the art is bad, it's just alien looking in this game.

[linkdream]

Divergent art style is one thing and can be fixed when you give it enough time.

But what about the rookie mistakes and all the copy/paste? It’s embarrassing if you ask me and I’m baffled they let that slide multiple times.

I’d say slow down with the girls release pace and spend more time to provide better quality.

I’m all for a dedicated topic on the matter.

I believe there are a similar thread on the French forum with some hilarious comparisons.

Edited December 22, 2019 by linkdream

[Karyia]

8 hours ago, linkdream said:

I’m all for a dedicated topic on the matter.

Given the relevance of the subject, I would think it justifies that. Maybe even also a poll, though you'd need to be careful with the presented options.

It's one thing for a couple of members to post about this, quite another if plenty of them discussed it and disapproved of it. IMO, of course.

[jelom]

I will play a bit of devil's advocate here.

There are some old haremettes with a very different drawing style in the game, some are more in the anime parody style, Skytte, Princess Noemy, Miss Spook, Treasure, Juin Lerriere, Mavin or the Housemaid to name a few. In these cases the artist have tried to copy the original style of the character he is paroding. You can see a huge difference between old and new ones.

There are other cases in which the haremette is based in a real person or a realistic 3D character and consequently drawn in a more real style, with Sara Jay as the better exponent of this, but other examples are Nikki Vignae, Bass or Madame Charlie.

And finally there are a third style that I will name HH style, in which the haremettes although being a parody are drawn with a recognizable style as characters of this game. Bunny and her family is the best exponent of it.

@Falco82 was not doing a true fair comparison between Selene and Bass because they are drawn in different styles of the above said (although evidently Bass is of course more detailed).

About the hand of Melissa it is true the artist could have corrected it easily. But I suppose they are in tight schedule and hands and faces are the most difficult body parts to draw (if I remember well from my school days).

This is what i did in one minute (forgive me, I am not an artist) to correct the angle of the hand. That's why I think a thread dedicated to these mistakes could be useful to show Kinkoid some improvements that can be done in the pictures. Let give some time to the new artist to adapt to the style and in the meantime some corrections can be made to actual art.

[Bomba]

Oh no.
Have you seen their affection scenes? We can't link them and can't describe them, but we can discuss them, right? And it was a selling point of the game - that affection scenes are worth it. Well, I just saw Selene's first star scene... and that' it. I'm done. Falco82 will probably say that all palms there are wrong and will be correct, but you know what, even I can draw better, even though I can't draw at all. But at least I can count how many noses the protagonist has on his face. And it's not two. (or maybe it's second upper lip, I'm not sure). The scene is awfully drawn and there's nothing could be said in its defence.

Speaking of which. Am I the only one who sees two sets of eyebrows on Hima? 

3 minutes ago, jelom said:

About the hand of Melissa it is true the artist could have corrected it easily. But I suppose they are in tight schedule and hands and faces are the most difficult body parts to draw (if I remember well from my school days).

One thing is style. The other is blatant mistakes. I'm fine with style, but the obvious mistakes that follow this style are a very bad sign.

The whole point of this game is art. And when it drops in quality I honestly don't see any future.

[jelom]

9 minutes ago, Bomba said:

Oh no.
Have you seen their affection scenes? We can't link them and can't describe them, but we can discuss them, right? And it was a selling point of the game - that affection scenes are worth it. Well, I just saw Selene's first star scene... and that' it. I'm done. Falco82 will probably say that all palms there are wrong and will be correct, but you know what, even I can draw better, even though I can't draw at all. But at least I can count how many noses the protagonist has on his face. And it's not two. (or maybe it's second upper lip, I'm not sure). The scene is awfully drawn and there's nothing could be said in its defence. 

Yes, I have seen the first affection scene of Selene, but I didn't noted that the first time. It is true someone can mistake the upper lip with a second nose by the way it is drawn and because the chin is partially occulted making some kind of second lower lip below. But the second affection scene is better as a compensation.

🤣Thanks @Bomba, you made me laugh seeing that scene your way.

About the affection scenes, not talking about Selene but in a general sense, one of the things I like of the game is how for some girls the images and story told in the affection scenes and the poses of the girl are linked to form a humoristic sketch.

[Bomba]

10 minutes ago, jelom said:

Yes, I have seen the first affection scene of Selene, but I didn't noted that the first time. It is true someone can mistake the upper lip with a second nose by the way it is drawn and because the chin is partially occulted making some kind of second lower lip below. But the second affection scene is better as a compensation.

🤣Thanks @Bomba, you made me laugh seeing that scene your way.

About the affection scenes, not talking about Selene but in a general sense, one of the things I like of the game is how for some girls the images and story told in the affection scenes and the poses of the girl are linked to form a humoristic sketch.

Well, one of those lines is out of place. I can't see it in any other way. Maybe it's my sight. Oh, I guess it's time to visit an oculist. It'll be a fun conversation.

And the affection scenes - yeah, they're awesome. In most cases.

[MaybeRegret]

If we talk about art, then previous artists have girls with two left legs as well. I think this will not be fixed.
Or one of Samane avatars have some artifacts (probably can be fixed):
https://www.hentaiheroes.com/img/quests/p/5c9f5b3c/p.png

[Falco82]

19 ore fa, jelom ha scritto:

I will play a bit of devil's advocate here.

There are some old haremettes with a very different drawing style in the game, some are more in the anime parody style, Skytte, Princess Noemy, Miss Spook, Treasure, Juin Lerriere, Mavin or the Housemaid to name a few. In these cases the artist have tried to copy the original style of the character he is paroding. You can see a huge difference between old and new ones.

There are other cases in which the haremette is based in a real person or a realistic 3D character and consequently drawn in a more real style, with Sara Jay as the better exponent of this, but other examples are Nikki Vignae, Bass or Madame Charlie.

And finally there are a third style that I will name HH style, in which the haremettes although being a parody are drawn with a recognizable style as characters of this game. Bunny and her family is the best exponent of it.

@Falco82 was not doing a true fair comparison between Selene and Bass because they are drawn in different styles of the above said (although evidently Bass is of course more detailed).

 

Actually, I never questioned the fact that there may be different styles and there are, as you said, right now characters with different styles in the game and they coexist perfectly anyway.

The problem I have reported is not in style but in quality.

If an artist is truly such, it is assumed that he has studied. and an essential part of the study is that of anatomy. You can draw a human being in billions of different ways and they will all be valid, some you will like more, some less (maybe I will like them on the contrary) but the anatomy must always be the same, the human one, with its right proportions.

This is the problem: the anatomy cannot be improvised and if an artist ignores it, it doesn't matter if the character's style looks nice or less, the result will always be something "weird". Just like in the example: not knowing how to draw the hands and wrong the body proportions have nothing to do with the drawing style, they are simply errors.

For this reason it's absolutely possible to compare drawings with different styles, because it's not the style in question. The style is subjective, the quality is objective.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Falco82

[Bomba]

4 hours ago, Falco82 said:

Actually, I never questioned the fact that there may be different styles and there are, as you said, right now characters with different styles in the game and they coexist perfectly anyway.

The problem I have reported is not in style but in quality.

If an artist is truly such, it is assumed that he has studied. and an essential part of the study is that of anatomy. You can draw a human being in billions of different ways and they will all be valid, some you will like more, some less (maybe I will like them on the contrary) but the anatomy must always be the same, the human one, with its right proportions.

This is the problem: the anatomy cannot be improvised and if an artist ignores it, it doesn't matter if the character's style looks nice or less, the result will always be something "weird". Just like in the example: not knowing how to draw the hands and wrong the body proportions have nothing to do with the drawing style, they are simply errors.

For this reason it's absolutely possible to compare drawings with different styles, because it's not the style in question. The style is subjective, the quality is objective.

I agree. We're not talking about style. Style is cute and interesting. When I look at this art I don't see just the girl. I also see that something's wrong with her. So it's the quality. Even if it's the anime-girl anatomy with big eyes and such, it still must follow some rules, like the amount of right arms, eyes must be on the same height and the arms can't go straight through boobs. I was more focused on the perspective, shadows and details, but I think Falco82 is right. In this case anatomy is the main concern.