12/Feb/2020 week 7 patch note discussion

[trunks2585]

So my thoughts on this.

Personally, I'm grateful they are even offering EP orbs at all for f2p players in, what 4 different ways?  One of which is do an epic mission, and easy way to aquire a daily pull, or stock and save them up for a particular event if there's a girl you wanna try for.  The easily could have kept screwing people with MP orbs instead.

That being said, this has created a lot of problems as many users have pointed out, and I won't bother going over them, especially since we don't seem to have clear answers on everything yet.  I'd rather talk about points that haven't been discussed to death.

1.  Mythic Pachinko:  I'd like to see options to get orbs for 3 and 6 game MP pulls.  Those would actually be useful. 

2. Epic Pachinko:  I'd like to see more than just one way to get a 10pull EP orb.  At the very least all players in the league that placed high enough to earn enough kobans to do a 10 spin, should get that value of an orb to compliment it.

2. Event Pachinko:  I'd really like to see EvP orbs implemented.  Someone mentioned the idea of revival events giving orbs instead of the epic gift set.  I second that, but maybe do it for EvP instead of EP.  It would make sense in sticking with the 'theme' of the event (to me at least), and odds are if this idea is implemented, they wouldn't give us a 10 pull EP orb, so I'd take a handful of EvP orbs over EP orbs in this case.  Open to other suggestions that would work for included EvP orbs.

3. great pachinko.  Do we even want or need orbs for this category to get included?

[MDuss]

The other question is:

How would this orb influence the drop chance from attarction points from eventgilrs at the boss fights?

I mean we have until now ymens, tickets, boss girl and or event girl.

Now we have the orbs too.

So will this reduce the chance to get attraction piont for the girls? I think yes.

 

MfG
MDuss

[Karyia]

Wow.

Talk about an awful implementation of a promissing concept (the orbs). But the worse thing is really how things are being posted by the devs. IMO, they're just doing themselves more harm than good but that's their problem.

Anyway, taken what has been said as "real", and since the champions feature has been somewhat "broken" (at least to me) by the latest changes, I would suggest, if possible, a different way. Reinstate the orbs like the items were before... available after the other rewards have been claimed.

In order to increase the longevity of the feature (if you don't want to add an extra champion, for example), please introduce a 9th drop on each champion with another girl. Even if similar to the current ones. That would be a nice and worthy way of doing it, IMO, instead of "shoving" (potential) orbs into the mix. It's not like you haven't kept adding girls to the pachinkos.. just add a girl to each champion  

You already made it more challenging by turning some of the "for sure" tickets (daily rewards) into "eventual" ones (contests). 

From the reaction of most players, it's a given they give high value to getting girls, so... this would be an alternative way, maybe, of increasing this feature?

I haven't played the feature since the patch, and I won't probably, unless I just need to turn tickets into $, since any attempt to get the girls is currently compromised.

I'm pretty sure this also has its downfalls but hey, just an idea, ok? 😅🙄😂 It's all about getting girls in the end 😍

[Тёмный Властелин]

59 minutes ago, trunks2585 said:

3. great pachinko.  Do we even want or need orbs for this category to get included?

Sure, but ONLY x10 version of it.

51 minutes ago, MDuss said:

I mean we have until now ymens, tickets, boss girl and or event girl.

You forgot about attraction items. They are also in the pull of rewards. I saw them at Donatien and Silvanus. Not sure if they were always there or it has been just a recent implementation. I'm playing only for a month for now.

59 minutes ago, trunks2585 said:

2. Event Pachinko:  I'd really like to see EvP orbs implemented.  Someone mentioned the idea of revival events giving orbs instead of the epic gift set.  I second that, but maybe do it for EvP instead of EP.  It would make sense in sticking with the 'theme' of the event (to me at least)

It's a good idea. The items are hot garbage and event pachinko would look like somewhat "themy", to a certain extent.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Тёмный Властелин

[DvDivXXX]

13 minutes ago, Тёмный Властелин said:

You forgot about attraction items. They are also in the pull of rewards. I saw them at Donatien and Silvanus. Not sure if they were always there or it was just a recent implementation. I'm playing only for a month for now.

No, that has been there for a while. During (most) events, the map bosses that don't have an event girl drop gifts instead.

57 minutes ago, MDuss said:

How would this orb influence the drop chance from attarction points from eventgilrs at the boss fights?

That doesn't change anything. Just like the boss' regular girls or anything else the boss can drop, it's separated from the drop chance of the event girl.

[DvDivXXX]

3 hours ago, xxx69 said:

There are couple of ways they could restore the balance without major changes. The ones that come to mind are:

• Make the Orb drop actually ADDITIONAL as falsely advertised in the Patch Notes, so that it doesn't affect the original 8th pass guaranteed girl drop.
• Make the Orb drop appear only AFTER you've cleared the girl, as falsely suggested in the FAQ, so that it doesn't affect the original 8th pass guaranteed girl drop.
• Hard-code an actual pity timer so that the girl drops on the 8th pass at the latest no matter what, so that it doesn't affect the original 8th pass guaranteed girl drop.

It's not rocket science. They've destroyed the guaranteed girl drop. They need to restore it, one way or another.

[GeorgeMTO]

5 hours ago, Observer_X said:

I agree with you only partially, due to two simple facts.

First, I have a question for you, as I don't remember what you said it in the past (if you said it at all). Are you a monthly card owner?
If the answer is no, then I have to congratulate you for the (obviously) super efficient way you collect ymens from your 325 girls.
If the answer is yes, then I think you don't have taken into account the relevant difference that the free ymen gather from the harem does in the situation at hand when a player has in his harem a relevant number of girls. Actually I have only 184 girls, and even using grid mode I need nearly five minutes to gather ymens from the full harem. In the past, when the girls were less than 100, i were able to gather ymens every half hour, losing a minimal part of treasure, but with the increasing of the harem size, I was practically bound to gather ymens with the full load (with the exception of Jeanne, and in future, should I get her sooner or later, Golden Bunny, due to their exaggerated reload times): this is due to the fact that the reload times from one ymen value to the next often differs only by a few seconds (and so on like a ladder), and I often found myself held in the harem screen for an hour (and sometimes even more), while I had other matters I could have attended.
Should in the future, in a miraculous momentum of generosity, the devs establish a feasible way (as difficult as it may be) to obtain the free ymen gather permanently (and only that: up to now it has been passed as an accessory advantage, but as I said I don't deem it like that) without a real money monthly fee, I will agree with you fully.

Regarding the money obtained from villains, you may have forgot another fact: raising the villains level to increase the ymen outcome to a decent amount, unless one start to refill combativity with that purpose (and I can hardly imagine players doing so), it is a process that requires time, but, simply put, we had the orbs feature introduced now. In the future, when the majority of long term players will have all the villains leveled up to Tier 3, I will be able to fully agree with you on this, but for now the two things I mentioned in my humble opinion make the orbs feature almost completely unfair.

Yes I am a monthly card holder. If that takes you 5 minutes though, I feel you're much too slow. In a previous discussion, a Nutaku user went and tested and found they can collect from 277 girls in about 2 minutes via the grid mode for what felt like their normal pace. It's even faster on HH, since you can use the tab button to scroll for you here. That player may be on the faster end, but that's still way too much of a difference considering they have ~50% more girls than you.
I don't see how your criticism of your expanded harem invalidates the point I made though. The extra stars mean with the same amount of clicks, you gather more money. It's a straight income increase with no extra demand on your time, as my comment was about extra stars on girls the players likely already had, not just obtaining extra girls.

Well we've had the tier system for nearly two months. The moment you have a boss into the next tier you're earning more than you were before it (or maybe 10 battles in, once you're in the next level, minor difference). Yes, it does take time to get bosses like Dark Lord to "a decent amount", but it's still more than it was before the system was introduced. Several increases added in for all players, so they've shuffled slightly and reduced how much we gain from other systems. Do note that the orb system itself is also an increase in some areas, as epic pachinko orbs from daily missions/boss drops will likely yield far more value than the cash/item you would've received in its place. I think we can't be certain it's a reduction for newer players just yet, let alone a vastly detrimental reduction.

[blaa]

I was curious and tested it, I collected allt he cash (640k) in 1:28 for 215 girls on nutaku.

[Ben9]

Tab to collect has never worked for me sadly.  Maybe its a mac thing.  It takes me a couple minutes usually, if I go any faster I often get timeout errors from the server.

[DvDivXXX]

1 hour ago, GeorgeMTO said:

It's even faster on HH, since you can use the tab button to scroll for you here.

As far as I'm aware, this used to work but has been patched out some time before I started the game (I stumbled upon ye old threads about this at some point).

In my experience, you actually need to click each girl and scroll down manually with your mouse. You also need to not go too fast, as it can lag easily if your APM is too high, and some patterns work better than others (the worse is the most intuitive: from left to right on the same line). I use grid mode and typically go by column, top to bottom, as much as possible. When I need to go by line, I work my way from right to left. Sometimes I need to go back and click the same girl(s) again because it didn't register my initial click(s). It's a bit of a pain in the A.

Compared to when I had the blue button from the monthly subscription, I know for a fact I'm losing out on a decent amount of Ymens, because with the blue button you don't lose a single penny: whenever there's anything over 0, you click on it and done. Without it, I can't be bothered to open the Harem page until there's 100K or more to collect.

Having said that, it doesn't change the fact that the increase in Ymen income is real, and the difference between the easy mode blue button and the hard way manual clicks is the same as always, so everybody get more Ymens than they used to. And this is all a tidbit off topic anyway.

1 hour ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Do note that the orb system itself is also an increase in some areas, as epic pachinko orbs from daily missions/boss drops will likely yield far more value than the cash/item you would've received in its place. I think we can't be certain it's a reduction for newer players just yet, let alone a vastly detrimental reduction.

I think most of this patch's changes are great. The only thing I have a serious problem with is how they slammed the door shut on anyone who doesn't already have all the champion girls, and decided that those players (and any new and future players) would need to spend a ton more time, efforts and resources on getting them. At least the 0 defense "not a bug" change affects everybody equally, and it just made stage 5 fights harder. This change makes it so that getting unlucky on the champions, especially the high-level ones might lead to simply never being able to collect their girl. That's just a slap in the face.

[LanceHardwood]

28 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

At least the 0 defense "not a bug" change affects everybody equally, and it just made stage 5 fights harder.

Wait, stage 5 used to have more than 0 defense ? Now that puts things in perspective. Also I'm not sure if it's known, but sometimes when Charm girls' skill activates in champion fights, it ends up that the champion does more damage rather than less. Happened to me both prior and on Stage 5 as well, without champion girl matching the pose.

[GeorgeMTO]

33 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

As far as I'm aware, this used to work but has been patched out some time before I started the game (I stumbled upon ye old threads about this at some point).

In my experience, you actually need to click each girl and scroll down manually with your mouse. You also need to not go too fast, as it can lag easily if your APM is too high, and some patterns work better than others (the worse is the most intuitive: from left to right on the same line). I use grid mode and typically go by column, top to bottom, as much as possible. When I need to go by line, I work my way from right to left. Sometimes I need to go back and click the same girl(s) again because it didn't register my initial click(s). It's a bit of a pain in the A.

Compared to when I had the blue button from the monthly subscription, I know for a fact I'm losing out on a decent amount of Ymens, because with the blue button you don't lose a single penny: whenever there's anything over 0, you click on it and done. Without it, I can't be bothered to open the Harem page until there's 100K or more to collect.

Having said that, it doesn't change the fact that the increase in Ymen income is real, and the difference between the easy mode blue button and the hard way manual clicks is the same as always, so everybody get more Ymens than they used to. And this is all a tidbit off topic anyway.

They patched out the "enter" collecting it part, but tab scrolling was not. You click on all currently collectable girls, then press tab, and it scrolls your screen such that the next collectable income is in the middle row. No accidental overscroll ect.

I disagree that it's offtopic. Someone feels the patch decreased ymens you could earn, and that it's unacceptable to do so. Recently added features, in addition to the orbs themselves, increasing the income mean that reduction isn't unfair. While Kinkoid don't always (or even often) tell us their plans, that doesn't mean things aren't done with one.

7 minutes ago, LanceHardwood said:

Wait, stage 5 used to have more than 0 defense ? Now that puts things in perspective. Also I'm not sure if it's known, but sometimes when Charm girls' skill activates in champion fights, it ends up that the champion does more damage rather than less. Happened to me both prior and on Stage 5 as well, without champion girl matching the pose.

Yes stage 5 used to have defence, it also used to only pull poses from the champions class. The defence change was never in a patch note which is why some players call it a bug, the poses change was, so that's definitely a feature.

I've never heard anyone report that before. Could you try to catch a screenshot of it the next time you watch a fight? I'll try to watch mine, but I don't have anyone on stage 5 at the moment, and won't for another 4 days minimum.

[LanceHardwood]

1 minute ago, GeorgeMTO said:

Yes stage 5 used to have defence, it also used to only pull poses from the champions class. The defence change was never in a patch note which is why some players call it a bug, the poses change was, so that's definitely a feature.

I've never heard anyone report that before. Could you try to catch a screenshot of it the next time you watch a fight? I'll try to watch mine, but I don't have anyone on stage 5 at the moment, and won't for another 4 days minimum.

The defense not being in the patch notes certainly brings a sense of déjà vu to the current one. It does make sense in the context that Champions don't have a fixed pose type for Stage 5, but the lack of explanation on the developers part is extremely disconcerting. If they did that before, then it's likely current Champion orbs are set in stone no matter the feedback we give.

As for the bug, I never thought about screencapping it before, but will certainly do now, though it might be difficult to prove that the skill has just activated. At first I thought it happened just on Stage 5, but it has happened on Stages 1-4 as well.

[GeorgeMTO]

3 minutes ago, LanceHardwood said:

The defense not being in the patch notes certainly brings a sense of Déjà Vu to the current one. It does make sense in the context that Champions don't have a fixed pose type for Stage 5, but the lack of explanation on the developers part is extremely disconcerting. If they did that before, then it's likely current Champion orbs are set in stone no matter the feedback we give.

As for the bug, I never thought about screencapping it before, but will certainly do now, though it might be difficult to prove that the skill has just activated. At first I thought it happened just on Stage 5, but it has happened on Stages 1-4 as well.

So it's not a stage 5 bug then. Hmmm. This bug doesn't only occur against the Hardcore class girls does it? Because then that's just the usual visual bug of a skill indicator not appearing when both classes crit at the same time. That's been an irregular occurrence since the skills have existed, same as how Know-How girls sometimes heal with a "Narcissism" when vsing Charm girls who defend with a simultaneous Narcissism.

[Ben9]

The more damage 'bug' might just be that the crit is coinciding with a matching pose in the rotation so does more damage?  

[GeorgeMTO]

12 minutes ago, Ben9 said:

The more damage 'bug' might just be that the crit is coinciding with a matching pose in the rotation so does more damage?

Their first comment specifically said it was not.

2 hours ago, LanceHardwood said:

Wait, stage 5 used to have more than 0 defense ? Now that puts things in perspective. Also I'm not sure if it's known, but sometimes when Charm girls' skill activates in champion fights, it ends up that the champion does more damage rather than less. Happened to me both prior and on Stage 5 as well, without champion girl matching the pose.

 

[Ben9]

Oh right my bad.  I'm trying to do this tab thing but still can't get it to work.  How do you click on 'all currently collectable girls'?  

[GeorgeMTO]

11 minutes ago, Ben9 said:

Oh right my bad. I'm trying to do this tab thing but still can't get it to work. How do you click on 'all currently collectable girls'?

...I think you've overthought this. It means all the ones you can currently see of the ~20 on the screen in grid mode (5 rows of 4). So once none of the ones you can see are collectable, if the last thing you clicked on was to collect a girl's money, tab moves you down to the next one.

[DvDivXXX]

2 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

I disagree that it's offtopic. Someone feels the patch decreased ymens you could earn, and that it's unacceptable to do so. Recently added features, in addition to the orbs themselves, increasing the income mean that reduction isn't unfair. While Kinkoid don't always (or even often) tell us their plans, that doesn't mean things aren't done with one.

Thanks for that (and the scroll tip). I don't disagree with you on the above, and I feel that the game has improved a lot overall just in the past six months since I joined in. However, there are still some hiccups, first and foremost due to their poor communication skills and timing with announcements, which is a shame because it sometimes result in great moves not being acknowledged properly by the community.

Every now and then, they also make changes that turn out to be for the worse. Locking the champions' already tedious progression behind a permanent RNG feature (except for veterans who already collected all the girls, for whom this is just a decent bonus) is definitely one of them.

It might be paranoia kicking in, after being too trusting earlier on, but I find the lack of comments on this specific issue from the most knowledgeable forum users a bit suspicious. The silence from the devs is deafening, of course, especially after they've posted a so-called FAQ that asked the question but gave an irrelevant answer instead of the truth. But I'm getting worried about the lack of comment here about that, from the likes of shal, Chthugha, Jelom, or even you, George (you do post about other things, but I've seen no comment from you about the elephant in the room, since they posted their FAQ, at least). It makes me wonder what you guys might know, and perhaps not be able to tell us, that could make this okay. I'm almost tempted to reinstall Discord just to check. ^^

1 minute ago, Ben9 said:

How do you click on 'all currently collectable girls'? 

With your mouse. ^^ And one by one (same as usual).

[Ben9]

6 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

...I think you've overthought this. It means all the ones you can currently see of the ~20 on the screen in grid mode (5 rows of 4). So once none of the ones you can see are collectable, if the last thing you clicked on was to collect a girl's money, tab moves you down to the next one.

Yea you're right I overthought it because it wasn't working for me.  But after your explanation I figured out on mac you need to actually hold tab down, and after a bit of a pause, it works as you said.  Single press on tab does nothing.  Due to the pause I'm not sure its faster than scrolling but I'll try it once I have a full harem to collect and see.

[GeorgeMTO]

16 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

It might be paranoia kicking in, after being too trusting earlier on, but I find the lack of comments on this specific issue from the most knowledgeable forum users a bit suspicious. The silence from the devs is deafening, of course, especially after they've posted a so-called FAQ that asked the question but gave an irrelevant answer instead of the truth. But I'm getting worried about the lack of comment here about that, from the likes of shal, Chthugha, Jelom, or even you, George (you do post about other things, but I've seen no comment from you about the elephant in the room, since they posted their FAQ, at least). It makes me wonder what you guys might know, and perhaps not be able to tell us, that could make this okay. I'm almost tempted to reinstall Discord just to check. ^^

It's a weekend. They posted the FAQ late on Friday then clocked out. No point yelling now when no one is going to read it except to vent frustration. I don't have any because I'm unaffected by it.

[MaybeRegret]

I know that it's all about luck and everything, but what is the approximate probability of getting missions on a orb? I haven't seen a single one yet.

[Тёмный Властелин]

3 minutes ago, MaybeRegret said:

I know that it's all about luck and everything, but what is the approximate probability of getting missions on a orb? I haven't seen a single one yet.

I've got 3! on the first day and then - nothing, Today I didn't even get an arena ticket in the missions. Affection stuff only. 

[Zamio]

12 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

I'm almost tempted to reinstall Discord just to check. ^^

 

By all means, do. It's probably better to go on the frontlines by yourself, just because you have a vested interest in reverting that change. I mean no offence to veterans, but it's unlikely they are going to fight tooth or nails for something that doesn't concern them (I would suspect all of them would already have the girls by now). In fact this change is better for them - some of them might not have collected the 8 rewards and I think most people would agree that Orbs are better than the cosmetics the Champions have to offer.

[DvDivXXX]

@Zamio You're certainly right. It's just that I'm reluctant to go this extra mile down the rabbit hole. I've been there with other games before, and I know how time-consuming it can become. I already spend too much time on the game itself and the forum as it is. ^^