Beginner question : Best way to spend kobans ?

[Тёмный Властелин]

2 hours ago, Bomba said:

As for the Kinkoid policy. I want to remind you their view on the availability of the mythic girls. They're exclusive now and will never return.

I'm, actually, quite positive that they'll return. I think that there is a broad misunderstanding of what Kinkoid means by exclusivity. Yeah, they don't want to make revivals on the regular basis. But they will definitely return them in one way or the other in unexpected ways and times so that you rush for them and deplete your resources and (hopefully for Kinkoid) open your wallet. That's what I think they mean by "exclusivity".

2 hours ago, Bomba said:

So expecting them to return after Kinkoid made sure to say that they want girls to be exclusive will not lead to a positive experience in the future I'm afraid.

Agree 100% 🙂

Edited November 25, 2021 by Тёмный Властелин

[JustVisiting]

43 minutes ago, Bomba said:

Because you're comparing her to better passive bonuses and mythic girls

Not quite. I'm already saying that I *can* afford the Mythic girls. In fact they would be second on my recommendation to any player after PoP.

So this is really a question of balancing (the frequency of benefit of having any 5* Legendary in your team + the passive bonus) vs ((the frequency of benefit of having any 3* in your team) x the number of extra 3*s + the passive bonus).

As I pointed out above, you're getting around 3x3* girls from the PoA. But you could actually afford 2 LD for the same price. So if you're choosing between PoA and LD in terms of investment you are choosing between those two options with some additional benefits - the Combativity could save you some Koban on the next MD, and some Ymen, a few 10xGP, tickets and gems from the PoA and some Kobans leftover from LD. The other benefits from either aren't enough to get you another girl. So which is going to help you more - the +3 for passive bonuses and 3x3*s or the +2 for passive bonuses and 2x5*?

And that's the assessment that any player, regardless of level, has to make if they are deciding whether it's better to spend Kobans on opening the bonus on PoA or engaging with LD. Not LD vs anything else, just specifically PoA vs LD.

(I would have looked at the spreadsheet, but as far as I'm aware it keeps a log of what the Blessings have been but not the top 7 team for each week so I wouldn't be confident asserting what the frequencies are at this point)
 

 

43 minutes ago, Bomba said:

I'm just a level 457 player who can secure top15 in D3. I can't afford LD for myself. And that's true for every player below me in level and koban income. Because all those players have to think long term and long term LD aren't worth you kobans.

I need a little more time to assert as a certainty, but at level 358 and finishing 16-30 in D2 I'm confident I can afford MD and - based on a LD ever second month - LD as well. Though I am very aggressive in limiting my Koban spending and don't spend on other events. If you're going on PoA or spending on other events then that would be the difference I guess.

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by JustVisiting

[DvDivXXX]

1 hour ago, JustVisiting said:

(lots of stuff)

No worries, glad if at least parts of my post were useful to you (and hopefully others), and thanks for the detailed explanation of where you are in the game and how you see and plan things. I'd say you're on the right track overall. In terms of the exchange between you and me, I'd just like to clarify one thing: I never meant to even remotely imply that 3-star girls of any type will be useful for combat (bar the odd blessings, and even then, we will see less and less of that as the default strongest girls get higher and higher in level, and blessings less and less of a factor).

When I mention the value of OD, PoA and any event that only has 3-star girls, I count the combat value gained from these events' girls as zero. These girls' value is entirely elsewhere (in the harem size, passive bonuses, Ymen income, more arms to juggle 12 PoPs at all times, and the mild HP bonus remnant from the old system).

I'm a bit intrigued you haven't mentioned LC at all, or my specific argument that you get a free 5-star legendary each month from LC so it's not worth spending lots of kobans to grab the LD girls too. I guess you simply believe in amassing as many 5-star legendaries as possible. And it may have served you well this far. That's going to change in the next 6 months or so, though (not just for you, but in general). The answer to your question is simple: you need to focus on a few strong girls for your battle team on one hand, and loads of purely "+1 to this and that" girls who won't see play in your battles (99% of the time) on the other. You don't need twenty-seven 5-star legendaries (well, it did have its benefits in the previous system, but that will fade fast). You need seven 5-star legendaries you can bring close to level 750 ASAP (and one less per Mythic you own), and then you need tons of fodder that's not in your Harem waiting to fight. It's there to boost your playing account and, indirectly, support your one strong team. It used to work exactly like that in a very static way for years when you only ever really needed three top-notch combat-ready 5* of your class, then that changed a great deal during the relatively brief Blessings and Elements Era. We are now firmly into the early stages of the Girl Level Era, though.

Anyways, I think I could have built my previous post a bit differently, so that it doesn't look like I was strictly advising you (I realize that it does look that way since I've quoted only you). Some of the stuff I was addressing was meant for Isonotro (I even pinged him once just in case), other stuff was just me giving broad-spectrum advice on the topic (a good part of which matches what Bomba posted while I was writing it ^^).

Also, yeah, as I mentioned here and in the thread where this started before Bomba appropriately advised Isonotro that this type of request was more suitable for the QA section: everyone is free to do things however they please. Sure, there are players who won't touch PvP; some of them genuinely do believe that they are "focusing on collecting girls instead", even though they are not (that is, they would collect more girls more efficiently if they played PvP, just because of the game's imbalance in that regard). There's also our good friend who deliberately avoided spending any koban ever for years (and is now in the process of making me cry by posting how little catching up this actually does now that he finally decided to burn it all)... All sorts of players. Casual veterans, hardcore newbies and everything in between. But if I'm giving advice or answering a question about how good or valuable something is in the game, I'm not taking any self-imposed handicap into account. I'm giving the correct answer as far as I know it, for an active and motivated player who wants to progress across the various parts of the game. No one has to follow any of that, but I'm not going to pretend any strategy advice is relevant to someone who decided to skip Leagues and Seasons, for instance.

Anyways. It seems that as told by Bomba, the correct answers are heard and received positively by Isonotro (as opposed to when I provide them and get a WTF reaction instead ^^). That's partly why I chose to primarily address the one guy here with whom I have yet to have any serious communication issue. Cheers.

[JustVisiting]

20 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

I'm a bit intrigued you haven't mentioned LC at all, or my specific argument that you get a free 5-star legendary each month from LC so it's not worth spending lots of kobans to grab the LD girls too. I guess you simply believe in amassing as many 5-star legendaries as possible.

Spot on - why have only one when you can have 2? LC is a no-brainer pick-up each month.

 

20 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

You need seven 5-star legendaries you can bring close to level 750 ASAP (and one less per Mythic you own),

So it's fair to say then that you feel the level benefits will make the Blessings obsolete? I can certainly see the top small percentage of players sinking resources into 7 Mythic at Level 750 and ignoring the Blessings, but if that starts happening I'd be very confident that KK are going to tweak the system to make Blessings more important again. I like the Blessing system, but beyond that this is the primary economic driver for KK now. If that stops being the case, we revert to a system with an artifical cap on the number of top tier girls you need (7 Mythics and done). That would pull the carpet out from under the demand that KK are trying to make for everyone to need every Mythic.

If left as things are, I think you're likely right. And the huge resources needed to get 7 Mythics to 750 makes the strategy you suggest correct. I would suggest though that there will be changes to come to move us back closer to the Blessing priority system or more of a middle ground where Blessings become relevant again. That would be my gut instinct on this. I'm not chasing level 750 right now as I'm no where near in a position to get even close (not being grandfathered in at 450+), so I'm pacing things to see what happens next.

Edited November 25, 2021 by JustVisiting

[Bomba]

28 minutes ago, JustVisiting said:

Not quite. I'm already saying that I *can* afford the Mythic girls. In fact they would be second on my recommendation to any player after PoP.

So this is really a question of balancing (the frequency of benefit of having any 5* Legendary in your team + the passive bonus) vs ((the frequency of benefit of having any 3* in your team) x the number of extra 3*s + the passive bonus).

As I pointed out above, you're getting around 3x3* girls from the PoA. But you could actually afford 2 LD for the same price. So if you're choosing between PoA and LD in terms of investment you are choosing between those two options with some additional benefits - the Combativity could save you some Koban on the next MD, and some Ymen, a few 10xGP, tickets and gems from the PoA and some Kobans leftover from LD. The other benefits from either aren't enough to get you another girl. So which is going to help you more - the +3 for passive bonuses and 3x3*s or the +2 for passive bonuses and 2x5*?

And that's the assessment that any player, regardless of level, has to make if they are deciding whether it's better to spend Kobans on opening the bonus on PoA or engaging with LD.

(I would have looked at the spreadsheet, but as far as I'm aware it keeps a log of what the Blessings have been but not the top 7 team for each week so I wouldn't be confident asserting what the frequencies are at this point)
 

 

I need a little more time to assert as a certainty, but at level 358 and finishing 16-30 in D2 I'm confident I can afford MD and - based on a LD ever second month - LD as well. Though I am very aggressive in limiting my Koban spending and don't spend on other events. If you're going of PoA or spending on other events then that would be the difference I guess.

 

See! Now we're talking.

And yes, you said about MD, that's why I was pointing at it. Maybe I misunderstood, but it wasn't clear for me that you were counting it. And even more not clear that we're talking about you and not in general and as an advice for spending kobans. Because for a general advice LD are still a bad investment.

So, let's focus on you. As I understand you now have enough kobans to get the girl in MD and you have some of them to spare and you say that LD is the best for you, right?
If it's a yes. Then yes, you're right and all your points are correct for your situation. But here's the things you missed and should consider watching over.
PoPs. At 385th level you will hit 12th level of T PoPs and you will need additional 57.6M of power from girls in your harem. Are you ready for that? It's shouldn't be much, so I'm pretty sure you have enough for that, but that's something you need to check.
Gifts and Books. The main resources for upgrading girls. Especially mythic. Do you have enough? Books are now more available, but still, you said 450 level is your maximum now and you should've already started to notice how much XP each level needs. Same about gifts. 1 Mythic and 1 5star Legendary girl a month, plus another 5star legendary girl once in a two months from LD. That's a lot of resources. I barely find enough for 1 Mythic and 1 5star Legendary a month. People don't joke that we don't have enough gifts and books.
So in these cases PoA will be better, because it gives those additional resources to use. Other than that your plan is perfect. Although at some point even 5star legendary girls will become irrelevant because we will have enough mythic girls for all types of blessings. And in some areas it will be slower than a more focused builds. Like 7 mythics +93 common girls will give you the strongest team with the least amount of resources, but some of those resources will be wasted on common girls. But that's the price of a short term. Your plan will not suffer from that.

[Тёмный Властелин]

My attitude towards Path of Attraction has changed drastically. At first, when it was implemented, I liked it a lot. It felt refreshing, it happened once every two months (!). Now I dislike it very much and consider it a shitty, overpriced (7.2k or "nothing" - you can't buy half of the track for example) event. When it was once in two months and there were no mythic days, it felt good. Now it feels like it is aimed at draining everything from you.

I'm with @JustVisiting in regards of Legendary Days. I like them more. Not only do they provide more TowerPower but also happen once in 2 months (!) and the girls, actually, happen to come back on a regular basis (!!).

34 minutes ago, Bomba said:

So in these cases PoA will be better, because it gives those additional resources to use.

A couple of books and equipments from orbs that PoA gives you don't change anything you are talking about 😉 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Тёмный Властелин

[Bomba]

Guys, I don't like PoA. But it's efficient in terms of getting girls for kobans. And you also gain some additional resources. They nerfed a lot. And except for PoA not a lot left.
You don't want to pay for PoA and want to use those on LD - great. It's a good plan. I'm just pointing out the possible lack of resources. I honestly, don't see how you will be able to find resources for all those mythic and 5star Legendary girls. Every other your argument is valid. And even if you think that it's better to spend those kobans on restocks in market to get those missing resources. That's also a valid and good choice.

For me - I just don't see a value to the 5star Legendary girl in a long run. And this isn't the game about short term solutions. Right now it's 12% chance for a 5star L girl with 25.00 stats to be relevant and be in top7. That's not a lot and that chance will decrease with each released mythic. So I'm not paying for that. And I will be able to get such girl later on in Mythic Pachinko, so I'm not losing anything either. So it's better to spend kobans on something that will be actually useful in a long run.

[JustVisiting]

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

Maybe I misunderstood, but it wasn't clear for me that you were counting it.

Apologies Bomba - I clearly haven't communicated well in this exchange.

I've not been suggesting that MD is the 'best' choice for any player when it comes to Koban spend (which is what this thread is really about and as such what I should have stuck to). I've been comparing the LD vs the PoA.

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

At 385th level you will hit 12th level of T PoPs and you will need additional 57.6M of power from girls in your harem.

I think I could probably afford that now, but if not at approximately 2 levels/week, 385 is 13 weeks away. 3 months. In that time I'll pick-up and max 3 Mythics (6k each) and between 4-6 5* Legendaries (5k each), which already covers the bulk of this jump. So yeah, I would be okay with that.


Book - these are always going to be a bottle neck and I appreciate what you're saying about how the expense escalates as the level increase. But for the near future at least I'm confident that I can afford to keep levelling up girls as needed. If I was trying to break an Awakening barrier - involving maxing lots of girls at once - then this would become a major problem. But with a patient approach the girls necessary to pass the barrier reach it then you move on.

Gifts - I'd estimate I can manage to upgrade a Mythic and a couple of 5*s/month. I do reset the shop when I get up during the night though, meaning I get around 3.5-3.8 shop refreshes/day. That's probably more than most. It also discounts any other sources of Affection (like pachinko as I haven't really used that in months). The way I look at this particular bottle neck is that even if I can't upgrade them all, as long as I have them on hand, I can pick and choose which to upgrade when I need them. Once they're upgraded they're upgraded for life.

Gems - I'm still feeling out how significant this bottleneck is. It's huge if you try and rush moving up Awakening levels immediately. It remains to be seen if I can sustain the strategy discussed in the mid term. Long term some changes will likely need to be made.
 

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

So in these cases PoA will be better, because it gives those additional resources to use.

PoA - I would agree if this was giving you a lot of resources to address the above bottlenecks, but it only gives Gems and it remains to be seen how far those Gems will stretch. If Gems become the principal bottle neck and PoA becomes one of the most significant sources for them re-evaluating the value of PoA is a must.

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

For me - I just don't see a value to the 5star Legendary girl in a long run. And this isn't the game about short term solutions. Right now it's 12% chance for a 5star L girl with 25.00 stats to be relevant and be in top7. That's not a lot and that chance will decrease with each released mythic.

I completely agree that there is an end point to the value of 5*s and that having the Mythics becomes more and more critical as time passes. [Side note - this creates another dynamic that ultimately ensures the older players will always be the top players - even where there were Mythic revival events, these girls are so expensive that catching up to a player who has 36 Mythics already from Level 0 is simply never going to happen.] But the redundancy of 5*s is going to be a very slow errosion over the course of the next few years. In the interim having the 5* is a real boon. So the priority should always be to get and upgrade every Mythic you can. But you can only get one Mythic a month and if you're going to have Koban left over...... Well to me it's a choice between getting some 5* or shop refreshes to get through more experience/gifts. Both have advantages. I just wouldn't spend Koban on 3* girls......

Edited November 25, 2021 by JustVisiting

[Bomba]

10 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

I think I could probably afford that now, but if not at approximately 2 levels/week, 385 is 13 weeks away. 3 months. In that time I'll pick-up and max 3 Mythics (6k each) and between 4-6 5* Legendaries (5k each), which already covers the bulk of this jump. So yeah, I would be okay with that.

Oh, 3 months, then yeah, it shouldn't be a problem. I thought it was a bit faster below 400 level.

10 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

Gems - I'm still feeling out how significant this bottleneck is. It's huge if you try and rush moving up Awakening levels immediately. It remains to be seen if I can sustain the strategy discussed in the mid term. Long term some changes will likely need to be made.

PoA - I would agree if this was giving you a lot of resources to address the above bottlenecks, but it only gives Gems and it remains to be seen how far those Gems will stretch. If Gems become the principal bottle neck and PoA becomes one of the most significant sources for them re-evaluating the value of PoA is a must.

Purple(Voyeur) gems - you get 300 per week in League if you win all battles. So it's 1200 per month. Plus 500 from free path in PoA. 1700 plus what you'll get from T PoPs. So 300 from paid path in PoA isn't that much.
Orange(Physical) gems - you get 24 a day in Season if you win all battles. So it's 720 per month. Plus 67 from additional kisses in Season and Daily rewards. Plus 9 from free path in PoA. Plus 300 orange gems from free path in PoA. To the total of 1100 orange gems plus what you'll get from T PoPs. So 500 from paid path in PoA looks pretty good.

On everything else. Yes, I agree. For 5star legendaries it's a bit harder to talk, because you basically need a certain critical mass of them to cover up your team's needs. Until you do that LD might be worth it.
But again, I just don't understand where you get resources for all that. Nearly 4 refreshes a day is a lot and I understand now how you can upgrade them all. So no problem there. But kobans... I dunno man. 16-30 in D2 is 1356 kobans per week, so it's 5424 in a month. Add 150 daily from Missions and together it's 10k kobans. You also get some from missions in orgy days, classic days, seasons and daily rewards, but it's not a lot and will cover only MD and barely. And you need some for Orgy Days too. So I don't see how you can afford even MD to be honest. Maybe you get a lot of kobans from daily contests? You're in a lower 320-360 bracket right now so that seems reasonable. 361-400 will be harder. 401+ is a hell. So if that's your koban income I assure you it will run dry pretty soon.

Honestly, the best short term strategy would be to break 450 and go for 500 level mythic and legendary girls. Or even 550. With that you can go into D3 and higher places and increase your koban income. And to do that you would need to spend those kobans not on LD, but on upgrades.
I mean, overall, you're not in the vacuum, other players are upgrading their teams too and cut losses wherever possible and LD is a loss. So I just don't see how you fit it in. But your logic is right. If you can do LD then go for it. But I would still recommend to stop doing it when you reach a reasonable amount of 5star legendary girls to cover your team's needs.

One thing of notice though. if going for MD - that's minus 3 days in Classic event, so the natural generation for 6 days will give you around 145 shards for classic girls, so 52 combativity from PoA will not be wasted and quite useful. Just correcting the math on the account of MD.
Also, for passive bonuses - you can calculate their value when comparing them with the legendary boosters. It doesn't seem much, but it's actually quite a lot. So every girl which moves you closer to the full bonus is worth it.

You know what. I think we just value 5star legendary girls differently. 25.00 is good, but I think that it's just a supplement to mythic's 28.56 and rarely worth it. So I prioritize bonuses to that 7 mythic team over them. But I have enough options to cover my team's needs depending on the blessing. And I don't know your options. I think Legendary contests should've covered those needs at this point. I guess I'm wrong about it.

[JustVisiting]

34 minutes ago, Bomba said:

Purple(Voyeur) gems - you get 300 per week in League if you win all battles. So it's 1200 per month. Plus 500 from free path in PoA. 1700 plus what you'll get from T PoPs. So 300 from paid path in PoA isn't that much.
Orange(Physical) gems - you get 24 a day in Season if you win all battles. So it's 720 per month. Plus 67 from additional kisses in Season and Daily rewards. Plus 9 from free path in PoA. Plus 300 orange gems from free path in PoA. To the total of 1100 orange gems plus what you'll get from T PoPs. So 500 from paid path in PoA looks pretty good.

These sorts of calculations are really useful. If you're going to stick to those sorts of schedules. But reality gets in the way and winning everything isn't always possible.

In terms of the league, not only is not even vaguely possible for me to win all of my battles, I actually have to be careful and manage my wins/losses to ensure I don't promote right now. I think I might be able to hit higher rewards in D3 right now, but not higher XP. So I want to stay in D2 for a while.

Seasons - I've actually taken to not playing at the start of the month to save the previous month's Kisses for the KC. A step past that though, once I hit tier 51 I stop playing. This is to allow others to move past me and ensure that when the PoA comes along I get easy wins for all the PvP tiers.

So the above will absolutely impact Gem accrual negatively.

But then there's the potential positives. For instance, I have a huge bank of MyP orbs (comparatively, but not to the veterans lol) and my gut feeling is that the drop rate on the PoP has been increased on these. Consequently, in a short time I'll start playing these again (which will be great for my booster stash!!!). And I think other sources of Gems are likely to turn up in the near future.

These sorts of variables make assessing the Gems that I will be able to pick up in the short to mid term tough. Hence wanting to get a little more real world information before either spending excessively or panicking about the potential shortfall.

------------------------------------------------

Koban income:

League - 226/week = ~32/day = 960/30 day month
Daily Missions - 25/day = 750/month

That already covers the MD with some to spare (assuming full SP booster usage).

Seasons - 65/month (I know this varies - I've went with this month which I think is a low month)
Daily Calendar - 25/month
Classic Even - I'm not sure exactly but at 9 days I'd estimate at least an additional 100/month
Orgy Days - Again not sure exactly, but 5 days 50/month
TPoP - This has been reduced a lot recently by the dilution of the good TPoP, but I'd still estimate around 3/day, so 90/month

That would be 2040/month (12240 for HH), which would actually just about cover both MD (~1500) and LD (~550) on an 'average' amount of Combativity used on each. Though I will admit that this month may be giving me a false sense of security as I received an insanely good drop rate on MD this month (9.65%) which meant I actually got Undercover Valentina for only 906 Koban (5436 HH). That's left me with a lot extra this month.

Counter to that though - LD is only every second month, so you could half the cost and bank the extra Kobans as savings.

I don't spend Kobans on OD. I understand that these are a cheap way to pick-up lots of girls, but already managing around 26/month (and I've shorted that figure by not spending MyP or EP at all for about 5-6 months now). A harem of ~800 is required to max out the passive bonuses. That's 18 months away at the current rate. I'm not sweating this. The 'gotta catch 'em all' thing doesn't really rank highly on my priorities. 3* are a nice extra if you can get them in case they come up in the double Blessed category, but not critical to sustaining a high level of performance imo.

And then you have the Daily Contests. I'm in a good timezone for these and have a very flexible work schedule, so I do well placing top 4 most days. So these come in over and above what I get above. If these crashed out - which I fully expect them to at Level 400, at least for a time - I should still have enough to engage both events as long as they are still useful to me.

----------------------------------------------
 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

Honestly, the best short term strategy would be to break 450 and go for 500 level mythic and legendary girls. Or even 550.

Using my current strategy I estimate I'll break 450 naturally sometime in January (hopefully early) next year.

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

But I would still recommend to stop doing it when you reach a reasonable amount of 5star legendary girls to cover your team's needs.

And I agree - 5*s have a limited shelf life given the ever growing pool of Mythics. There reaches a point where, having picked-up enough Mythics and the overall pool of Mythics having expanded significantly, that 5*s stop being relevant. The idea behind getting them at the present time is they are still very useful right now and will be for the next few years (you need a large bank of Mythics to cover all the Blessing combinations and as that only increases by 1/month it's going to take a long time to reach saturation).
 

 

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

You know what. I think we just value 5star legendary girls differently. 25.00 is good, but I think that it's just a supplement to mythic's 28.56 and rarely worth it. So I prioritize bonuses to that 7 mythic team over them. But I have enough options to cover my team's needs depending on the blessing. And I don't know your options. I think Legendary contests should've covered those needs at this point. I guess I'm wrong about it.

No necessarily wrong. In fact, more likely to be right than me given the additional game experience you have. It's just not really possible to say for certain.

There is a mathematically optimal strategy to this game. But everyone here is just making educated guesses at it. There are far to many moving parts to intuit the correct strategy exactly and not enough incentive for someone to actually spend the likely months of work it would take to creat a simulator to test the different game approaches to assert as fact which is the best approach. And beyond this, we all overlay our own preferences on the strategies that we choose. If I'm interpreting correctly, you place more emphasis on maxing the passive boosters while I place more on having the strongest girls available to catch the relevant Blessings. I wouldn't go as far as asserting either approach is correct in fact, they're just differing approaches.
 

[Bomba]

13 minutes ago, JustVisiting said:

That would be 2040/month (12240 for HH), which would actually just about cover both MD (~1500) and LD (~550) on an 'average' amount of Combativity used on each.

On HH that amount(12.5k) would be enough for only MD. There will be some left probably. And from two month those leftovers will probably be enough for LD. But leaves you nothing else.
You seem to skip Orgy days. That's not really a great idea. Best source of girls by far.
As I said, you underestimate passive bonuses from girls in Harem. And 18 months is a lot of time. After 6 months the need for 5star legendary girls will drop for you because you will get 7 mythics. And to up the strength of those you will need the passive bonuses.

So honestly, spend those kobans on Orgy Days instead of LD. I think that will give you a lot. Wait, how do you get 26 a month? 3 in Classic,1 Mythic,3 in Orgy Days, 1 in LC, 2 in PoA. That's 10. Well, if you get that much, then yeah, no need for Orgy Days. Still, that's the best event for you kobans and skipping it doesn't sound great.

[Liliat]

Il y a 2 heures, Bomba a dit :

On HH that amount(12.5k) would be enough for only MD. There will be some left probably. And from two month those leftovers will probably be enough for LD. But leaves you nothing else.

Actually, it's not that bad. I'm getting almost 13k HH-Kobans per month on D1-16, and that's enough to play MD and 2 obtain the 2 girls in LD (I have a lot of revivals to grab...), as well as to buy a bit of Affection from time to time (Books aren't an issue at our level). D2-16 adds another 1700 Kobans per month, so it gives some spare room.

Maybe on a very bad month (With terrible drop rates), I would have to skip one of the 2 girls in LD (Or, most likely, keep her at 50-80% and wait for a revival), but otherwise, MD + LD is totally doable.

However, it means that I fully skip everything else indeed: no PoA Bonus, no OD, no Classic Event (I skip the first 2 Days of classic event to save Combativity for MD, then the next 3 Days to focus on MD; so I can only play Classic for 3 or 4 days per month, and I only use natural regen on OD). It's not ideal for increasing the number of girls, but it's required (or useful?) to get a solid core team for PvP (Which is more important IMO at mid-level).

Edit:

Il y a 2 heures, Bomba a dit :

Wait, how do you get 26 a month? 3 in Classic,1 Mythic,3 in Orgy Days, 1 in LC, 2 in PoA. That's 10. Well, if you get that much, then yeah, no need for Orgy Days. Still, that's the best event for you kobans and skipping it doesn't sound great.

Don't forget that we have a lot of missing girls from everywhere Even GPx10 is a great source of 1* girls, for those of us who didn't have enough cash to buy them all before the money nerf I'm not done with Champions, Club Champions, any of the Pachinko, PoP, Adventure... so plenty of girls to gain, in addition to the events. Around 30/Month seems correct (+132 for me on the past 4 months)

Edited November 26, 2021 by Liliat

[JustVisiting]

4 hours ago, Bomba said:

On HH that amount(12.5k) would be enough for only MD. There will be some left probably. And from two month those leftovers will probably be enough for LD. But leaves you nothing else.

Assume a 6% drop rate (it's actually a little higher than this from what I've seen), meaning that we need 1667 Combativity total for 100 drops. Add in SP booster x5, meaning that we only need 834 Combativity as we need half as many drops. I started the last MD with 150 Combativity banked, and over the course of the 3 days had another 142 in natural regens (this included some DC Combativity which admittedly is gone now, but still only accounts for ~10). This means that I needed an extra 542 Combativity. At 1.8 Koban/Combativity, that's 976 Koban + (5x90) for the SP boosters, giving an average cost per Mythic of 1426 Koban (or 8556 HH). I think you might be over-estimating the cost for MD a little. I do accept that this is when everything aligns with mathematical expectation - so you will have instances where it costs a good bit more and times, like this month for me, where it costs less - but I always have a significant bank of Kobans saved up anyway, so I'm happy to eat that variance knowing that in the long run the price will work out at around 1426 Kobans/month for the Mythic girl. [EDIT - I forgot to add on the 24 for the 3x50 to burn through the 150 saved Combativity right at the start to get the natural regens running - so actual total 1450]

 

 

4 hours ago, Bomba said:

And 18 months is a lot of time. After 6 months the need for 5star legendary girls will drop for you because you will get 7 mythics. And to up the strength of those you will need the passive bonuses.

I understand your point here. However, there's a paradoxical conundrum in either extreme.

As things stand, my ability to hold my own in D2 is currently closely correlated with the number of top 7 girls I can field in a given week. If I can field 4, I'm very strong and will have to try and intentionally weaken myself to use all fights. If I can field 3, it's a comfortable week. Less that 3 and I'll have to plan to ensure I can remain in the top 30. It's not quite as cut and dry as that, but that's a reasonable rule of thumb.

Having those top 7 girls is almost exclusively a function of which 6/5* you have available. By sacrificing picking up 5* to increase the number of extra 3* you get, your significantly reduce the chances of being able to field a strong selection of the top 7 but gain the passive bonuses.

Either direction you go, you lose one benefit and gain another. It really comes down to which benefit you think is stronger or finding the best middle ground between the two.

And as I hadn't expected to be really competitive in D3 for another 18 months (when I'd be expecting to hit around Level 440), the pacing for hitting max passive bonuses aligns fairly neatly this way.

As to the '7 Mythics to win' strategy - as I mentioned above, I appreciate that this is the right strategy for the current version of the game as Blessings are made redundant by Level 750 girls, but I strongly suspect that this dynamic is going to shift in the next 6 months. Blessings created demand for all Mythics by making every one of them valuable on different weeks. Commercially it would be a very bad idea for KK to undermine this dynamic after creating it. As such I think basing long term planning on the assumption that the current 7 Mythics to dominate (that's just begging for a Lord or the Rings parody hehe) is going to remain in place does not seem wise to me. Blessings will (imo) end up getting an overhaul to ensure that it is non-optimal to sit with a static team of 7 Mythics. Commercially it's logical that will happen.

 

4 hours ago, Bomba said:

Wait, how do you get 26 a month?

I wouldn't like to pin this down too much and my recollection would likely make me a lier 😛 But here you go:

 

316/12 = 26.33...

I would guess that this may have been padded by 1* - removing these reduces that total to around 21 - but 1* are still getting pumped out so completely removing them isn't entirely accurate, and my lack of Pachinko play at the MP/EP level had artifically reduced my collection speed as well. I'd guess that 26 isn't far off accurate.

Edited November 26, 2021 by JustVisiting

[Bomba]

3 hours ago, Liliat said:

Actually, it's not that bad. I'm getting almost 13k HH-Kobans per month on D1-16, and that's enough to play MD and 2 obtain the 2 girls in LD (I have a lot of revivals to grab...), as well as to buy a bit of Affection from time to time (Books aren't an issue at our level). D2-16 adds another 1700 Kobans per month, so it gives some spare room.

Maybe on a very bad month (With terrible drop rates), I would have to skip one of the 2 girls in LD (Or, most likely, keep her at 50-80% and wait for a revival), but otherwise, MD + LD is totally doable.

However, it means that I fully skip everything else indeed: no PoA Bonus, no OD, no Classic Event (I skip the first 2 Days of classic event to save Combativity for MD, then the next 3 Days to focus on MD; so I can only play Classic for 3 or 4 days per month, and I only use natural regen on OD). It's not ideal for increasing the number of girls, but it's required (or useful?) to get a solid core team for PvP (Which is more important IMO at mid-level).

Edit:

Don't forget that we have a lot of missing girls from everywhere Even GPx10 is a great source of 1* girls, for those of us who didn't have enough cash to buy them all before the money nerf I'm not done with Champions, Club Champions, any of the Pachinko, PoP, Adventure... so plenty of girls to gain, in addition to the events. Around 30/Month seems correct (+132 for me on the past 4 months)

Oh hi! Yeah, that's the math that I was talking about. On that amount it will be just MD and might be enough for LD too. Although I completely forgot that there're two girls in LD nowadays, that changes things a bit.

And thank you for that explanation about girls. I mean, I still have the same sources, so I could go up to even 20, but that seemed a bit too much. But 1star girls are definitely rack up those numbers.

1 hour ago, JustVisiting said:

Assume a 6% drop rate (it's actually a little higher than this from what I've seen), meaning that we need 1667 Combativity total for 100 drops. Add in SP booster x5, meaning that we only need 834 Combativity as we need half as many drops. I started the last MD with 150 Combativity banked, and over the course of the 3 days had another 142 in natural regens (this included some DC Combativity which admittedly is gone now, but still only accounts for ~10). This means that I needed an extra 542 Combativity. At 1.8 Koban/Combativity, that's 976 Koban + (5x90) for the SP boosters, giving an average cost per Mythic of 1426 Koban (or 8556 HH). I think you might be over-estimating the cost for MD a little. I do accept that this is when everything aligns with mathematical expectation - so you will have instances where it costs a good bit more and times, like this month for me, where it costs less - but I always have a significant bank of Kobans saved up anyway, so I'm happy to eat that variance knowing that in the long run the price will work out at around 1426 Kobans/month for the Mythic girl. [EDIT - I forgot to add on the 24 for the 3x50 to burn through the 150 saved Combativity right at the start to get the natural regens running - so actual total 1450]

 

 

I understand your point here. However, there's a paradoxical conundrum in either extreme.

As things stand, my ability to hold my own in D2 is currently closely correlated with the number of top 7 girls I can field in a given week. If I can field 4, I'm very strong and will have to try and intentionally weaken myself to use all fights. If I can field 3, it's a comfortable week. Less that 3 and I'll have to plan to ensure I can remain in the top 30. It's not quite as cut and dry as that, but that's a reasonable rule of thumb.

Having those top 7 girls is almost exclusively a function of which 6/5* you have available. By sacrificing picking up 5* to increase the number of extra 3* you get, your significantly reduce the chances of being able to field a strong selection of the top 7 but gain the passive bonuses.

Either direction you go, you lose one benefit and gain another. It really comes down to which benefit you think is stronger or finding the best middle ground between the two.

And as I hadn't expected to be really competitive in D3 for another 18 months (when I'd be expecting to hit around Level 440), the pacing for hitting max passive bonuses aligns fairly neatly this way.

As to the '7 Mythics to win' strategy - as I mentioned above, I appreciate that this is the right strategy for the current version of the game as Blessings are made redundant by Level 750 girls, but I strongly suspect that this dynamic is going to shift in the next 6 months. Blessings created demand for all Mythics by making every one of them valuable on different weeks. Commercially it would be a very bad idea for KK to undermine this dynamic after creating it. As such I think basing long term planning on the assumption that the current 7 Mythics to dominate (that's just begging for a Lord or the Rings parody hehe) is going to remain in place does not seem wise to me. Blessings will (imo) end up getting an overhaul to ensure that it is non-optimal to sit with a static team of 7 Mythics. Commercially it's logical that will happen.

 

I wouldn't like to pin this down too much and my recollection would likely make me a lier 😛 But here you go:

 

316/12 = 26.33...

I would guess that this may have been padded by 1* - removing these reduces that total to around 21 - but 1* are still getting pumped out so completely removing them isn't entirely accurate, and my lack of Pachinko play at the MP/EP level had artifically reduced my collection speed as well. I'd guess that 26 isn't far off accurate.

We kinda already talked about the second part. Getting your battle team ready is a priority, no question about it. But as I said, I'm in the dark about the quality of your strongest girls. So if you say that you still need LD for that - I believe you.

Now to the wrong parts. I didn't say that you get 7 mythics and that's it. You need a team of 7 mythic as soon as possible. And after that continue to grab them. That's why MD is a priority. With time the chances for 5star Legendary girls to appear in top7 will diminish significantly.And it will be just different mythic girls in the top. With only exception being the blessing for rarity.

Also. the math for MD. For HH expected amount of kobans is 10k including mythic SP booster. But that's not the amount needed to start the event. That's why I'm saying that it might not be enough. 90% probability or even higher - that's the probability of obtaining mythic girls you should be looking for. Not 50%. So you need a pretty big bank to start it. That's why my number is bigger than what you expect. Most of the time you wouldn't need all of them. But it's not an event where you can afford not to get the girl after you already started to invest. Otherwise, your math is correct.

@isonitro, sorry for the ping, but there was a heated discussion after your question so I thought I would need to clarify few things.
Mythic Days is the biggest priority. That will give you the strongest girls in the game for your team. It's expensive and requires a bank. 10k kobans is what it costs on average, but you would need at least 13k to start it in order not to miss the girl. I would even recommend to have 16k in reserve for that. It also requires some preparations because you would need 4 or 5 mythic boosters.(those boosters included in that total amount of kobans)
As for the other expenses. Orgy Days event gives girls and at the best value. So it's a good thing. Second best at that value as I said is PoA. But strong team is what gives you a better fighting chance in League and therefore more kobans. It's hard to say from my position what you would need for that strong team without seeing what you have in Harem. But as others pointed out in short term you might even want to invest in Legendary Days to get few of those strong 5star legendary girls right now. It might be a good investment short term which will give you a bit more income of kobans from League.
But that really depends on your level and what strong girls you have in harem and I don't have that information. So you might want to read what others were talking about here to find what suits you best. Other points I think I already covered in that previous post.

[JustVisiting]

20 minutes ago, Bomba said:

With time the chances for 5star Legendary girls to appear in top7 will diminish significantly.

And I think this is the crux of the discussion. How quickly you feel that Mythics will make 5*s irrelevant. I do agree that 5* are on the path to irrelevance, but I think this is likely at least 2 years away. Until that point they are still important and will frequently make up the bulk of the top 7.

1 hour ago, Bomba said:

So you need a pretty big bank to start it.

I thought that might be why your figures were so high, which is why I commented on variance and having significantly more than I need before starting any of the events. I 100% agree - you should never start a MD event with only just enough to cover what it is expected to cost. Having 50% more is smart. Personally, I like to keep a cushion of 100% more than I should need.

[Bomba]

5 minutes ago, JustVisiting said:

And I think this is the crux of the discussion. How quickly you feel that Mythics will make 5*s irrelevant. I do agree that 5* are on the path to irrelevance, but I think this is likely at least 2 years away. Until that point they are still important and will frequently make up the bulk of the top 7.

Zoopokemon's spreadsheet "Unblessed stats". You can assume the same % category for every new mythic and that chance taken away from everyone else. Don't forget to add percentages for new 5star legendary girls too(LC,LD,Season) - 2.25 per month. So the drop should be around a bit less then 1% per month. And become less with time. So on average it would be about 2% per 3 months, so about 4% chance for being relevant in a year. By crude calculation 0.8% drop in closest month and 0.5% drop a month in a year. But that's for the whole list of girls. So degradation for you will be slower and to the higher lowest percent. I think that with more than 80 mythic and 5star Legendary girls there will definitely be no need for more. The chance for them being relevant will become quite low. So until then your strategy should be pretty safe.
Hmm... with such pace we can even expect 7star girls in 2 or 3 years.