Hollo Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 I have a suspicion that all of this isn't going to matter anyway. Charm was the best school after the previous patch; now it will be KH. Either way, I'm running into so many opponents that don't seem to care about PvP that I win the majority of my matches. Meanwhile, among the crowd that does care, the more the arena favors KH, the more people will switch to KH. If there's still going to be the KH > Charm > HC > KH cycle, then the more people become KH, then the more people will benefit from becoming HC to cash in on the HC > KH advantage. There will then be enough HC opponents that Charm will be viable to farm HC, and so on. The equilibrium will eventually happen with somewhat more KH out there taking advantage of the 1.5x damage ability. People seem to forget that this is a game in active development. What is true now, will likely stop being true in a month or two. For now, I'm winning arena almost all the time. Then I'll win less and adapt. Life goes on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisticuz Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 2 hours ago, jyepie said: I wish after a battle you were not kicked out of the battle menu. I wish after the battle ended you could just click on the green battle button again OMG this, please! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberbholt Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Double, not triple. 5000 defence gives a bonus of 5000 defence, which is a total of 10,000. Not a bonus of 10,000. in my country as a bonus we call the total sum it's a translation problem and lexico, you're right, it would be 10,000, not 15,000 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoyoHH Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 In any class-based pvp game ever created, when different classes all have different skills - you have balance issues. As it's been stated already, I fear this is game breaking. If they wanted to make pvp more interesting, more dynamic, and less RNG based, then they could have done a lot of things. I think the idea of critical attacks, and also defense bonuses, and also heals are a step in the right direction. But giving the different classes different skills based off of different numbers...it's just stupid. Regardless of how you crunch the numbers and regardless of which class is uber and which sucks (in this iteration), the bottom line is this: the classes are and will continue to be unbalanced. Every patch going forward they will be making changes, nerfing and buffing, trying (and failing) to make everybody happy, and trying to balance a system that is unbalance-able. Just like every other class-based pvp game we've ever played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natstar Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 (edited) Let me explain how it works because I tested it out on the test server that patreons have access to. It is the type of the girl that you have equipped in your harem battle team and not the class of your character so a charm player can get the know how ability by using a know how girl,know how could get the charm girls one by using a charm girl,ect but I suggest that you use them as your second or third girl if using girls not of your class type in order to use the special ability since it would still be good to have a girl of your class for bonus ego/health and damage that you get from her. For example, if you are a hardcore player and your harem battle team is like this 1st/Alpha girl is Hardcore it uses the Hardcore ability 2nd/Beta girl is Charm it uses the Charm ability 3rd/Omega girl is Know how it uses the know how ability It does 1st then 2nd then 3rd then goes back to the 1st girl in your harem it works the same for the girls position that is used for the judge bonus as well. Edited April 16, 2018 by natstar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks2585 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 I feel like this was an effort to fix PvP and make players pick more diverse teams, but it'll probably make people all just switch to HC instead and continue mono type teams. All I can say is the number crunching and everything is good to figure out in theory, but there's a couple of things I want to add. The first is the luck chance of this going off. I feel even with the fact that HC clearly has the best bonus, it all still doesn't matter if it's RNG as hell on getting the crit's to trigger. The second thing is as always it's possible the patch notes haven't clarified everything. @natstar you are on the test server. Is there anything we should know about before this battle system goes live that hasn't been mentioned? PvP aside, this is how an update should be done. I don't see anything that has been taken away form us, just stuff being added. The last of PoR and starting the school world Really hoping for a hero/lenelle/bunny threesome before she drags hero off to her school set up slightly annoyed that I'll be farming 3 more girls again, after I was so close to having all the boss girls, but oh well. They said there would be new tutorial quests in the first 2 worlds. are these full new quests or just two quests that were updated? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sovereign RHB Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, natstar said: Let me explain how it works because I tested it out on the test server that patreons have access to. It is the type of the girl that you have equipped in your harem battle team and not the class of your character so a charm player can get the know how ability by using a know how girl,know how could get the charm girls one by using a charm girl,ect but I suggest that you use them as your second or third girl if using girls not of your class type in order to use the special ability since it would still be good to have a girl of your class for bonus ego/health and damage that you get from her. For example, if you are a hardcore player and your harem battle team is like this 1st/Alpha girl is Hardcore it uses the Hardcore ability 2nd/Beta girl is Charm it uses the Charm ability 3rd/Omega girl is Know how it uses the know how ability It does 1st then 2nd then 3rd then goes back to the 1st girl in your harem it works the same for the girls position that is used for the judge bonus as well. Since you have experience on the test server maybe you could enlighten us. If I read it correctly the new luck counter now maxes out at 50% where it was 25%. Does this mean the special ability of a girl will happen more often? I don't mind the occasional (HC) crit. I can strategize for that. It's the three crits in a row that really bums me out. Well, maybe we'll see less of those if ppl start to have more (class)divers teams. Which brings me to my second question. What was the trend on the test server? Did ppl favour single class teams or multiple class teams? And should we stock up on single stat items or are we better off with multi stat items? I won't hold you to it. I'm just curious as to your experiences. TIA Keep playing, have fun, play nice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habi Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) ok guys the pvp mechanics are still simple. why don't you write a script that simulates a fight, let it run a million times for each class/girl combo and record the results. if there is a class with a higher average win rate despite having the same stats then it's not balanced AND you can prove it (given the script is written properly and the first strike bonus is eliminated) i hope kinkoid did exactly that and did not just make up the numbers in their minds. but the fact that those numbers are pretty even lets me believe the latter is true... shifting so much focus on pvp was probably the worst thing that could happen to this game... Edited April 17, 2018 by Habi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyepie Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 9 hours ago, natstar said: I think it was to stop botting back when it only took 3 hours and 20 minutes for combativity energy to refill but yeah it's annoying since now you do 20 battles instead of 10 with every energy bar and it makes it harder for players using combativity refills which makes it on the topic of the thread since some people will be using combativity refills to get the new villain harem members fast so that they don't have them in epic pachinko during events. You don't have the same problem with arena fights since it keeps you on the arena page so it's just reducing the amount of refills players buy with kobans because fighting the villains is not as fast as it could be. Since they changed boss battles and how long it refills they shoild change the way it kicks you up to the map. It is really annoying to go back to the map 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natstar Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 On 4/17/2018 at 4:33 AM, dirty harry said: Since you have experience on the test server maybe you could enlighten us. If I read it correctly the new luck counter now maxes out at 50% where it was 25%. Does this mean the special ability of a girl will happen more often? I don't mind the occasional (HC) crit. I can strategize for that. It's the three crits in a row that really bums me out. Well, maybe we'll see less of those if ppl start to have more (class)divers teams. Which brings me to my second question. What was the trend on the test server? Did ppl favour single class teams or multiple class teams? And should we stock up on single stat items or are we better off with multi stat items? I won't hold you to it. I'm just curious as to your experiences. TIA Keep playing, have fun, play nice On 4/17/2018 at 4:09 AM, trunks2585 said: I feel like this was an effort to fix PvP and make players pick more diverse teams, but it'll probably make people all just switch to HC instead and continue mono type teams. All I can say is the number crunching and everything is good to figure out in theory, but there's a couple of things I want to add. The first is the luck chance of this going off. I feel even with the fact that HC clearly has the best bonus, it all still doesn't matter if it's RNG as hell on getting the crit's to trigger. The second thing is as always it's possible the patch notes haven't clarified everything. @natstar you are on the test server. Is there anything we should know about before this battle system goes live that hasn't been mentioned? PvP aside, this is how an update should be done. I don't see anything that has been taken away form us, just stuff being added. The last of PoR and starting the school world Reveal hidden contents Really hoping for a hero/lenelle/bunny threesome before she drags hero off to her school set up slightly annoyed that I'll be farming 3 more girls again, after I was so close to having all the boss girls, but oh well. They said there would be new tutorial quests in the first 2 worlds. are these full new quests or just two quests that were updated? 7 On 4/17/2018 at 7:48 AM, jyepie said: Since they changed boss battles and how long it refills they shoild change the way it kicks you up to the map. It is really annoying to go back to the map Hi, I am just going to quote you all at once to try to answer as much as I can. It would indeed be nice if you did not have to keep on clicking on battle every time you beat a boss since it's not needed now that it takes 10 hours for your combativity to refill instead of 3 hours and 20 minutes so guess they did it before to stop players botting to fight bosses when the timer was lower. The best change that I like is that you now get defense against players of the same class as you so hardcore, charm or know how takes less damage against other hardcore, charm or know how players. Not many people care about their stats on the test server my account on it is hardcore and the only player within my level range that can fight back is hardcore so it's better for me to still use single stat hardcore items my test account is only level 108 and I have not reached any cap on using my special ability it has gone past a 25% chance but critical attacks don't do as much damage now so it's not really a big deal to use it more often since the new ability's that you get from the girl you have in your battle team are not as powerful as what you got with the current critical damage bonus.. I did not see this in the patch notes for the stats that you have Now Wednesday patch Main stat +7.5 Endurance +5 Endurance Strong against +0 Endurance +2 Endurance Weak against +0 Endurance +0 Endurance The critical bonus you got by increasing your stats is still in the game but it has been renamed to harmony you can get higher than a 25% chance of using it as well so they're using that name instead of crit/luck plus it's displayed as a number I have 1,559 of it and when you go to battle another player/boss you see another stat near your Harmony called Excitement which goes up the higher your Harmony points are i have 48,384 of it which just gives me a little over 48% chance of using my girls special ability. Main stat gives less endurance but if you max out the stat you're strong against in the shop you will have more ego/health than before but it makes the multi stat legendary items stronger plus now Crit has been replaced by Harmony and can go past 25% makes that a more useful stat to have as well on it. If you go fight a boss now before the patch is released you will notice the battle box is orange they changed that to blue. When you click to buy something but you don't have enough money it will tell you the exact amount of money you need which is nice It's nice that they released world 10 so you can get 3 new girls from that boss and at max level 290 Roko sensei gives you 29.5k per win. The new tutorial quests just help explain the game better to new players they're new scrolls they added the new scroll for begin city/world one is now scroll number 5 and the new scroll/quest for world 2 is the 2nd scroll. . Please, be careful when sharing info on the test server. This should not happen before releases. In this case it's fine, because the content was released. Jessie Kinkoid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fap.titans.gra Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 did somebody calculated if charm will be OVERPOWER if the player is wearing a supersexy items?you do not look at the whole update.hardcore -gains only when you have a bigger dmgknows how- gains as he has a big dmg and egocharm - gains as all statistics are increasedyou have to convert everything and see the whole thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks2585 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 So looks like the main points we hadn't talked about is that HC's special attack is LESS powerful than the current crit attack, and it seems like chance to trigger harmony can go to 50 percent, maybe even higher. So in theory it's possible that HC will crit damage, but charm will also auto boosted shield at the same time? I know some figures have already been run, but has this scenerio been covered in the thread so far? I feel it's going to be best to actually see how this all plays out when the update goes live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthugha Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Your harmony increase +0.5 point per weak stat bought in the shop. I think that's the more important part of this patch. So now every stat you buy in the shop, gets you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberbholt Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) In Market : Purchasing your main stats will now increase your endurance by 5, from 7 Purchasing your secondary stats will now increase your endurance by 2, from 0 was missing in path notes, this patch enforces equilibrated stats (but i don't know if that is retroactive or until new buys) This patch would be a good time for them to implement that when changing classes automatically recalculate retroactively as they would be the stats with the rise of class character, but by the way of programming the dev I am afraid that the possibility was not contemplated, nor recalculate the points bought in the market to the current mechanics. Hopefully they took it into account to separate the unbalance of new players that create a class and existing ones that change class (in 250 levels you notice the difference every time) Another thing that worries me is that in the future the oldest players and the ones who spend the most money in epic paching will gain a bigger ego bonus with the current system, giving them an advantage in the long term (even if it is not so pronounced) . I mean, a player with 150 girls at lvl 400 will have an advantage over a player of the same level with 50 girls, and the more girls the players who are not in the market over the next few years, the greater the anger the ego difference will grow. to same level conditions regardless of having the same stats Example: have 50 girls lvl 200 = 5000 ego more , then 10.000 at lvl 400, but 150 girls player = 30.000. How every year have much girls to drop in 3 years can be player have 250 girls lvl 400 with 50.000 ego more from bonus... 6 years 350 girls 70.000 more from ego. Thats the problem of the system in a future long time. Edited April 17, 2018 by saberbholt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fap.titans.gra Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 30 minutes ago, Chthugha said: Your harmony increase +0.5 point per weak stat bought in the shop. I think that's the more important part of this patch. So now every stat you buy in the shop, gets you something. only for bought in the store, or also with equipment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthugha Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, fap.titans.gra said: only for bought in the store, or also with equipment? only store bought ones, and the ones you get from leveling up. not for equipment. but that's where the rainbow legendary equipment can play a role, or the dual main stat/harmony (now main stat/crit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fap.titans.gra Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chthugha said: but that's where the rainbow legendary equipment can play a role, or the dual main stat/harmony (now main stat/crit). rainbow legendary equipment will be super overpower for charm, will increase all statistics, more defensive, critics will appear more often.I do not know if someone has calculated but it seems to me that it can be terribly unfair.but I do not know if that is for sure. Edited April 17, 2018 by fap.titans.gra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
produkty Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Does anyone know, how exactly this works? Update For reason independent of our will, the following point has to be added: In Market : Purchasing your main stat will now increase your endurance by 5, from 7 Purchasing your secondary stat will now increase your endurance by 2, from 0 Purchasing your tertiary stat will now increase your harmony by 0.5, from 0 Thank you. Is this applied retroactively (e.g. calculated from how much points you purchased until now) or just at the time of purchase? My guess is retroactive as it will screw over far less people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberbholt Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, produkty said: Is this applied retroactively (e.g. calculated from how much points you purchased until now) or just at the time of purchase? My guess is retroactive as it will screw over far less people. i don't know, basicaly always this dev team use easy way Edited April 17, 2018 by saberbholt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kassander Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 Quote The ability of Know-how, Reassurance, will heal you for 10% of your max ego on your next attack What will happen if two Know-how teams with low attack and high ego fight each other? Will the fight last forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberbholt Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) if damage most low than healing, and higth harmony, can be a very very long combat Edited April 17, 2018 by saberbholt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natstar Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 1 hour ago, produkty said: Does anyone know, how exactly this works? Update For reason independent of our will, the following point has to be added: In Market : Purchasing your main stat will now increase your endurance by 5, from 7 Purchasing your secondary stat will now increase your endurance by 2, from 0 Purchasing your tertiary stat will now increase your harmony by 0.5, from 0 Thank you. Is this applied retroactively (e.g. calculated from how much points you purchased until now) or just at the time of purchase? My guess is retroactive as it will screw over far less people. Read my post further up it explains the change I made it before the edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Took Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Hollo said: I have a suspicion that all of this isn't going to matter anyway. Charm was the best school after the previous patch; now it will be KH. Either way, I'm running into so many opponents that don't seem to care about PvP that I win the majority of my matches. Meanwhile, among the crowd that does care, the more the arena favors KH, the more people will switch to KH. If there's still going to be the KH > Charm > HC > KH cycle, then the more people become KH, then the more people will benefit from becoming HC to cash in on the HC > KH advantage. There will then be enough HC opponents that Charm will be viable to farm HC, and so on. The equilibrium will eventually happen with somewhat more KH out there taking advantage of the 1.5x damage ability. People seem to forget that this is a game in active development. What is true now, will likely stop being true in a month or two. For now, I'm winning arena almost all the time. Then I'll win less and adapt. Life goes on. I'm one of those who don't care about PvP, but, in my most advanced HC account I seem to win about half my battles, even though my stats are shit (and I know I'm going to lose a lot against Finalmecia once she's levelled up to near 260). This is important to me as I want to win her girls (even though I got her prize, Edna, early on from Epic Pachinko). No, my point is about fairness and balance. I could use epic boosters, but (a) they cost kobans to purchase and (b) they have a limited life. I win a few in successful PvP battles but not enough and too infrequently. There is an extreme over-representation of top charm girls in this game: - 6 world reward girls at five stars and three of which have an attack power greater than 10k. The funny thing is for me, charm opponents with Abraël as alpha, her affection maxed out at 5 stars and at her top XP level available (and with Flight Attendant and Princess Noemy as beta and omega) I can still beat them, even when they're a little bit more powerful than me. I'd be stuffed, though, if they had Kalissa and Lenaëlle maxed out in their teams though, just as I have trouble beating some HC opponents with Levitya at 4 or 5 stars at the same level as me. I was one of the many HC players who didn't get her, so she can't count in this comparison. You might think (as others do) that beta and omega girls don't matter, but they sure do when battles are close and prolonged (lots of orgasms). I find this with Edna as my beta. She is so valuable and has saved my butt on many occasions. Anyway, with lousy equipment and two rows of mostly charm stuff too often as my choice of purchases, it's a poor show for upgrading me and my team. I've got some good stuff from Epic Pachinko, but this is seldom and I sell two thirds of it. I might be able to level up all my girls when I can afford it and this will boost my ego and endurance, but it's a slow process. The point I'm making is: hardcore are disadvantaged in this game to such an extent I can fairly accuse HH of bias, especially in favour of charm. Hardcore have only two 5 star world reward girls. We can disregard Ankyo as her stats aren't even up there with middling 3 star girls. Furthermore, Bunny and Fairy each have attack power under 10k. If Ankyo were strengthened to proper 5 star stats (as she should have been) and Fairy were given an attack power of 11.1k (as with the top girls in other classes) things would be a bit fairer and we HC players would not have to go to extraordinary lengths to get better equipment and use boosters, something other classes simply take for granted with superior girls readily at their disposal. Also, because Bunny is our first girl, she is a genuine all-rounder and can work well for charm and know-how players, possibly because new players have had to use her early on as their alpha in battles whatever their class (something planned for by the developers of this game, no doubt). So she does not have the same specific advantage for HC players that Abraël has for charm or Samane for know-how. There is, therefore, an inherent bias in this arrangement too. And while I'm on about the bias towards charm, why the heck was Samane changed from know-how to charm in her beach version (and, to rub our noses in it, her charm stats are up there with Jennie or - for know-how players - Secretary Rabbi)? Similarly, Bunny was changed to charm for her Loving version and Lupa (originally HC) was changed to know-how. I simply don't understand HH's thinking and why they felt the need to push charm so hard in the allocation and re-allocation of classes to the girls. It actually spoils the enjoyment of the game and leaves us HC players especially resentful. I could easily switch two of my accounts (both know-how) to charm as I have Abraël and Jennie maxed out at 5 stars and Princess Noemy on the upgrade button for her fifth star, so I could really make use of this option if I wanted to, but this is not really the point. Why the hell should we, just because HH seem to be trying to manipulate us into changing? In regard to your comment that the game is a work in progress, another point is that HH have already rebalanced our harems and have significantly disadvantaged HC and know-how players in favour of charm (take what happened to Solveig and Mountain Sophie for example). It ought to be just as easy to rebalance in the other direction if the development of the game is that flexible, as you imply. The first thing to do is to change Fairy's attack power to 11.1k and Ankyo's to the same as Princess Noemy's. While not perfect, this would be a step in the right direction and may let me breathe a sigh of relief when I'm ready to battle a maxed out Finalmecia in my most advanced HC account. Or I can hope that a more obtainable HC star becomes available sooner rather than later, maybe in this new world about to be released, and that she can be upgraded to 5 stars from the outset Edited April 17, 2018 by Peregrine Took remove word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ady6 Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 The problem I'm seeing is that HC and KH scales with main stats, meaning they will automagically have greater ego and damage. Charm scales with off-stats, thus reducing ego and damage for effective crits. This also begs the question as to how it overall effects orgasms/excitement since it's directly related to damage output. More damage means more excitement, but more damage and healing does not, ergo HC is advantageous. It do make for versatility tho, since now charm will use rainbow items effectively. Still won't make up for the loss in damage as far as I see it tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saberbholt Posted April 17, 2018 Share Posted April 17, 2018 13 hours ago, natstar said: Let me explain how it works because I tested it out on the test server that patreons have access to. It is the type of the girl that you have equipped in your harem battle team and not the class of your character so a charm player can get the know how ability by using a know how girl,know how could get the charm girls one by using a charm girl,ect but I suggest that you use them as your second or third girl if using girls not of your class type in order to use the special ability since it would still be good to have a girl of your class for bonus ego/health and damage that you get from her. For example, if you are a hardcore player and your harem battle team is like this 1st/Alpha girl is Hardcore it uses the Hardcore ability 2nd/Beta girl is Charm it uses the Charm ability 3rd/Omega girl is Know how it uses the know how ability It does 1st then 2nd then 3rd then goes back to the 1st girl in your harem it works the same for the girls position that is used for the judge bonus as well. for that bonus of ego and damage is why you change one of class to the some of the first girl you will use, I do not see sense to be charm if I'm going to use the first how-know and lose the ego / alpha damage bonus. The normal thing is that the first girl is from our own class for that bonus, or that we change classes if we plan to use a specific girl as the first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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