jaybee Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 First, more data is needed on real drops. If the shard system is in place, the amount of drops the shard numbers can always be tweaked. Just by writing other numbers in the formula, the developers can basically determine if winning a girl takes 2-3 years of events, 2 events or 2-3 days of fighting. I don't also understand the pay2win concept - there is absolutely nothing to win in this game. It is a very self-centered game where you collect pictures for yourself. The gambling element is probably essential why people prefer to click in the game, rather than Wiki to see all the pictures. So yes, the randomness and novelty (new girls not yet in the Wiki) factor probably keeps people in the game because sure drops would make it too similar to clicking the Wiki site. Pay2win would mean that people who are paying real money would get more pictures - what's the harm in that? It makes no difference whatsoever if somebody has 236 or 76 girls, if they have upgraded someone to five, three or two stars. You are spending all the time and effort entirely on your own account and whatever you do there is entirely for your own pleasure with no effect on others. There is always someone who has started the game one year earlier than you and there is absolutely no way to catch up or "win" anything. In that respect I don't see the harm of gambling-related sure drops. If it is too difficult, too many people will realise that what they are doing is stupid - spending money on freely available pictures (that are extremely expensive in the game for real money) and then actually not getting them. A stable drop rate would keep people collecting and spending occasional money on that. At least that's how it works for me - I enjoy the game because with some effort I get rewards. This is my only enjoyment. Do I like the game more when it makes the rewards too difficult? Not for me, this only moves me towards quitting and understanding that it is essentially idiotic. What keeps me in the game is this stable flow of events and a promise of new rewards. If I am left without rewards for a longer time, it diminishes my interest (although developers seem to think that it should increase my determination). Yes, there are occasional people who are ready for a crazy spend to get rewards but these people are too few to keep the whole server going. I play the Gay Harem version and it seems the results can be seen there. The hentai story has stopped with Donatien, basically whoever has kept playing for 2-3 months, is blocked at the same place in the story. Events are fewer than in the girl server (first ever revival is at the end of February). There are 237,000 registered players. The number of crazy spenders who basically have all the guys (130) is 40. Player number 100 already has 95 or by a third fewer. In my club 90% of players are dead. They were active enough 2-3 months ago to join the club but now only 2-3 of those 20 are still making progress. People are quitting because there's no new content, too few new rewards that are too difficult to get. The number of crazy spenders who can be milked for 100 euro per picture by keeping the rewards difficult is tiny and cannot keep the server going. The general player needs a steady stream of accesible rewards to remain interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cantrix Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 7 hours ago, windia said: I'm saying a deterministic safety net without any RNG (=cap limit) is pay2win - what we have now is a safety net with RNG. And thus the saved kobans don't go down the drain. I disagree, but i guess we'll find out if the new system is an rng safety net tomorrow. I just hope 10k kobans will be enough to offset the rng. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyepie Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) On 2/15/2019 at 11:27 AM, pozi said: I fully agre with you. After all, the hook of this kind of games lies indeed in the rng. @Cantrix said nobody likes rng when it hurts them but in the end we keep 'gambling' because we love when it pleases us so yes, Dev's are right when they say rng is behind HH success. If a safety net is implemented (like 'drop at least a shard per 10 fights' or something like that) it will kill the thrill, because you'll know you just need to fight a certain number of fights to get the girls so big spenders will get every single girl available, and honestly that's no fun (and no business in the long term because people tends to get bored when achievements are easily reachable). Now a suggestion. What if shards start to drop also in arena and league fights? I've always thought a system in which that PvP battles give you the option of getting an opponent's girl would be nice, and the shards system gives a nice opportunity to implement something like that. You won't be 'stealing' the girl from your opponent, he'll keep her in his harem, but eventually you'll have her too, after her affection reaches 100 in your account. Of course this have some bad implications (big spenders may feel less 'special' if freeriders start to get too many 'exclusive' girls) but it would be a great addition to the game. Also you can limit this to 'orgy team' girls (this would be specially useful to get those legendary girls I miss in my team) If shards dont drop and people cant get girls People will stop playing What a thrill ah? I must have fought for the new girl right now at least 150 times.... I have like 10 shards only. The new girl will leave soon. I couldn't get her. This shard system kills the game for me. I dont get any joy in the gambling. I dont understand why the devs say that the success of the game is the gambling aspect... If i wanted to gamble i would play casino games on android.... I play harem heroes for the beautiful girls and their scenes. I like having a harem. I dont give a crap about the gambling aspect. I just want girls. I love the girls. This system kills the only aspect of the game i liked because girls are harder to get now. Congratulations devs. You killed the game. I guess i hope everyone loves the gambling aspect now that event girls are impossible to get.... How Absurd it is to say that the success of HH was just tge gambling aspect.... Yeah....it wasnt because of the sexy stories or the beautifully drawn women....no..... it was just the gambling.... give me a break... Edited February 21, 2019 by jyepie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhans Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 On 2/15/2019 at 11:26 AM, trunks2585 said: I more or less agree with @YummyTiger Namely on the fact (as many have said) that we need more data. Next Legendary days is going to be the REAL test of this system, because you know we'll have players spending till they get the girl this round, not content to get maybe half of her. I'm also curious for those that just do free fights, how many shards total they'll have at the end of four days. Well seems like the system is rather generous if you're a big koban spender, and not so much if you're not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthugha Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, jyepie said: If shards dont drop and people cant get girls People will stop playing What a thrill ah? I must have fought for the new girl right now at least 150 times.... I have like 10 shards only. The new girl will leave soon. I couldn't get her. This shard system kills the game for me. I dont get any joy in the gambling. I dont understand why the devs say that the success of the game is the gambling aspect... If i wanted to gamble i would play casino games on android.... I play harem heroes for the beautiful girls and their scenes. I like having a harem. I dont give a crap about the gambling aspect. I just want girls. I love the girls. This system kills the only aspect of the game i liked because girls are harder to get now. Congratulations devs. You killed the game. I guess i hope everyone loves the gambling aspect now that event girls are impossible to get.... How Absurd it is to say that the success of HH was just tge gambling aspect.... Yeah....it wasnt because of the sexy stories or the beautifully drawn women....no..... it was just the gambling.... give me a break... Somehow I doubt you would've gotten anything with the old system, which was, to put it in similar wordings, gambling blind. 150 battles is absolutely nothing for an event like legendary days, and even though 10 shards might be on the low end, it's still progress. (Also unrelated, but the shot in the dark lucky hit is still possible... you can get 100 shard drops as well.) Edited February 21, 2019 by Chthugha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pozi Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, jyepie said: If shards dont drop and people cant get girls People will stop playing What a thrill ah? I must have fought for the new girl right now at least 150 times.... I have like 10 shards only. The new girl will leave soon. I couldn't get her. This shard system kills the game for me. I dont get any joy in the gambling. I dont understand why the devs say that the success of the game is the gambling aspect... If i wanted to gamble i would play casino games on android.... I play harem heroes for the beautiful girls and their scenes. I like having a harem. I dont give a crap about the gambling aspect. I just want girls. I love the girls. This system kills the only aspect of the game i liked because girls are harder to get now. Congratulations devs. You killed the game. I guess i hope everyone loves the gambling aspect now that event girls are impossible to get.... How Absurd it is to say that the success of HH was just tge gambling aspect.... Yeah....it wasnt because of the sexy stories or the beautifully drawn women....no..... it was just the gambling.... give me a break... If you just want girls, stop playing and just go to the game's wiki or any other hentai site (I'm sure lots of them have better and sexier content than HH). Maybe you don't find 'fun' in the gambling part, but gambling is precisely the reason you (and all of us) are hooked on this game. We want rewards (call it having a certain girl, a bunch of them or just the feeling of hitting the jackpot) and we keep rolling the dice even after 150 unsuccessful tries because we all think that 'next one will be the good one' and we'll get what we've been seeking for. That's gambling in a nutshell and yes, HH 'success' (from dev's perspective) is based on this. This is basic psychology and nowadays it's behind almost any modern kind of entertainment you can think of, from social media to sports betting and most videogames (especially the 'free to play, pay to win' type). Read about dopamine and variable rewards systems and then think again what makes you keep hitting the fight button in HH. As for the shard system, they sure lose some players but they'll engage others (just as they try to do with the clubs, and even with this forum, because creating a community is always an important business goal for any company that wants to keep being successful in the long run). Think about a casual player who doesn't get the girl but gets a 50% of her and a promise of a next appeareance in a revival event in which she'll be easier to obtain thanks to that 50% of affection. Sure some players won't stay that long (probably they weren't going to stay anyway), but others may be willing to wait and try their luck again. Now they have a new incentive to keep visiting the site. Edited February 21, 2019 by pozi grammar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trunks2585 Posted February 23, 2019 Author Share Posted February 23, 2019 So on my test account I did around 22 or so refills on fights to get the girl. On my free account I did no refills, ended with 47 shards. I think the average I heard from most other players in the other threads was about the same on refills. And there were a few lucky drops reported as well. I don't think i've seen any horribly low drops reported. So most people playing for free, not missing combat, can get legionaries in 2 runs, not horrible I'll admit. I know from testing on...well the test server that most players should be able to get the two free girls for free as well, but they'll take longer 5-6 days off shards. However this was before the devs decided to leave in lucky 100 shard drops. I'm hoping on revival events and normal events we see a higher percent of lucky drops reported. I don't know how I feel about shards for epic days though. With that you're getting shards towards girls that could drop from any epic pachinko spin. It kinda goes back to the issue of people not wanting to roll EP because normal boss girls were in it. I suppose that's the gamble players will have to take, but who knows, maybe players will be able to get a girl off epic days with only shards. The biggest issue is epic days rolls out a different set of girls each time, two of which will be that month's girls, so there's no telling when they'll be up for being specifically targeted again, they very much are still 'get them while you can' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shal_ Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 (edited) Based on the numbers presented for the new system, for Epic Days it may be possible to get one girl either just barely up to 100 shards, or close enough to it that a very small number of refills (<=5) could suffice to finish her off. 10 refills should definitely do it (which is still less than half the cost of acquiring the same girl through EP). So that might be the best course of action, do that and stop there - I agree that it'll be very difficult to project when those girls will be available outside of pachinko again, so leaving a girl incomplete at the end of the event might be a bit of a waste of combativity points. Edited February 23, 2019 by _shal_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 On 2/21/2019 at 4:02 PM, Chthugha said: Somehow I doubt you would've gotten anything with the old system On the contrary, I got the majority of my stuff on the old system. With every nerf that came along, and let's not forget this is the second or the third in this regard, my gains decreased. Now, with the new system in place, I just got three shards from 20 fights about five minutes ago - which basically means I am not going to get any more event girls from now on, given only a week time to do so. Which is okay, I guess, because I only need the ingame currency to upgrade girls, but: This is a Pokemon Expy. It's a gathering game. If the game mechanics themselves fundamentally oppose me gathering the girls, then what's the point of playing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chthugha Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Kain said: On the contrary, I got the majority of my stuff on the old system. With every nerf that came along, and let's not forget this is the second or the third in this regard, my gains decreased. Now, with the new system in place, I just got three shards from 20 fights about five minutes ago - which basically means I am not going to get any more event girls from now on, given only a week time to do so. Which is okay, I guess, because I only need the ingame currency to upgrade girls, but: This is a Pokemon Expy. It's a gathering game. If the game mechanics themselves fundamentally oppose me gathering the girls, then what's the point of playing? I was talking about the legendary girl. Hypothetical situation the old system was still there. I doubt you would've gotten her in that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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