Rushing with new system

[MCP]

29 minutes ago, casey said:

Personally i prefer a passing offense to a rushing one

Isn't that for when you want to get demoted?

[Zteev]

5 hours ago, windia said:

@Zteev & @Zamio: at least you two can enjoy your popcorn^^

Yes, we can. The original rusher is now down to third, and there are at least 2 more people on pace to pass them without spending anything on refills!

 

[Zteev]

They are now down to 4th, but they might hold that spot.

[DHarry]

Well, the best reason I can think of not to rush is that on day 1, usually everyone will be buffed. If you take your time to fight people when they drop their boosters, even just for a short time, you should get more points and pass at least people of similar strength as your own. 

[Zamio]

22 hours ago, Zteev said:

They are now down to 4th, but they might hold that spot.

finished 5th. The risk did not pay off for him, big hole in kobans in the end.

For myself, I fared much better under the new system. Will finish comfortably under 35th - was struggling around 60th before.

The spread between a loss and a win is much tighter now in terms of percentages. It does favor tactical play and use of all your league tokens.

 

[MaybeRegret]

Beer that rushed at the end of first day finished first. Don't know, if there was some plan, or if he was able finish first without rushing. Utka second and only Bookworm that rushed first ended with negative balance. 
First 15 places from first to fifteenth:
hc ch ch kh ch hc ch hc hc hc kh ch kh hc hc
 

[test_user]

I still don't fully get how this system works. I took a break from the league this past week but now I'm probably just going to use the collective fights with 12 kobans and see what happens. Don't really get how I'm currently 2nd right now.

[Sefiroth]

Edit: sorry, wrong thread

Well, the new system did screw up lower leagues big time. Previously it was possible to win at S3 and lower being well below median level. Now though if there's a 300+ (or, say, 50 levels + above you) player who simply decides to spend all his challenge tokens - forget finishing above him with a koban profit. 😕

Edited August 8, 2019 by Sefiroth

[Trihnicus]

I know for a fact that I haven't attacked every single person in any given league. There is still a significant advantage to having more total fights than anyone else. It is just less of an advantage for low levels.

It is rather annoying that the leagues have such a huge disparity in levels.

 

I would much rather see leagues separated by "weight brackets" than the current ladder system if I'm going to be grouped with people 2-300 levels higher than me, AND get punished for being new to the game.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Trihnicus

[MaybeRegret]

In my d1 league there already one player who score 6000+ points. 

[Zteev]

3 hours ago, MaybeRegret said:

In my d1 league there already one player who score 6000+ points. 

They might win. they might finish out of the top 5, we'll see.

[MaybeRegret]

On 8/8/2019 at 7:58 AM, MaybeRegret said:

player who score 6000+ points

He finished third.

[Zteev]

No rushers in my D1 bracket last week, and none so far this week.  It makes sense that there will be less rushing, due to the fact that there isn't an exact perfect score that is attainable.

[MaybeRegret]

One player with 6300+ in my d2 league. 

[_shal_]

A crushingly average player rushed my new D2 league and appears to have ended on only 5546 points. When I was in D2 two weeks ago that score would have been good for around 10th place, so it's likely to be punished with a finish in the worst rewards bracket of them all (and, needless to say, negative kobans for the week).

[linkdream]

There is an idiot with 7016 points in my D1 league on Nutaku (102 players).

Dude, with your strength you could easily get first place for free.

Figures...

Edited August 15, 2019 by linkdream

[MaybeRegret]

On 8/15/2019 at 6:45 PM, MaybeRegret said:

One player with 6300+ in my d2 league. 

He ended second. And rusher in d3.

[Observer_X]

I'll be sincere, I still don't understand people rushing in leagues. Let's try to make a sort of summary. For the sake of simplicity, let's make an example supposing a league of 106 players total (if one feels the need, proportions can obviously be made with few easy arithmetic operations, but the purpose here is only to give a general idea). That will mean a rusher in that league will need to use a total of 20 refills to clear all the possible 315 battles (excluding the starting bonus refill). A full refill costs 189 tokens, and the x15 battles costs 12 tokens. This means that the rushing operation will cost (189 + 12) x 20 = 4020 kobans.

Matter is, with the new point system this is not all, because it is almost certain that a rusher, to mantain his 1st place, has to keep himself fully boosted all the week. Let's make a (maybe generous?) hypothesis, that 2 epic and 2 legendary boosters will be enough to assure stats high enough to succeed. That will translate in a daily cost of 60 x 2 + 90 x 2 = 300 kobans, for a weekly cost of 300 x 7= 2100 kobans. Added to the rush cost, that will make a total of 6120 kobans.

Now, let's consider the better scenario, i.e. the one of a player that completes all his daily missions, and does that during an event with special missions. considering the koban rewards, that player will make around 1500-1600 kobans in a week. Subtracting that gain from the previous costs, the result is that a rusher who wish to maintain with a reasonable (although, and this is really important, never absolute) certainty his 1st place, will need to spend around 5000 kobans during the league turn.

Now, let's come to the league rewards. With an expense of 5000 kobans, only 1st place in Dicktator I, 1st place in Dicktator II, and 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place in Dicktator III will repay the efforts. Moreover, 2nd, 3rd and 4th place in Dicktator III will do it with a margin of only 760 kobans, and this means that, out of the aforementioned "better scenario", also those places won't repay the efforts. And if you ask me, considering the other methods to gain free kobans, 700 is a thin reward for an entire week of efforts, but this is only my own opinion.

Point is, all the above is anyway dependant from a previously mentioned fact: even rushing and keeping boosted, a player, unless he have exceptional base stats, can never have the absolute certainty of keeping his 1st place intact. Moreover, being necessary to keeping boosted to try to achieve that goal, spending the aforementioned 4020 kobans for the rushing becomes IMHO purely illogical.

Furthermore, it may be useful to remember that the aforementioned exceptional base stats, in this game, are normally prerogative of game whales (with all due exceptions), meaning that the first places in the aforementioned leagues are normally off limits for "normal" players (again, with all due exceptions). This makes rushing, for normal players, even more illogical.

[_shal_]

Staying boosted post-rush is fairly pointless, exactly because maintaining first place isn't a certainty anyway. Most of the time the margin of victory (or defeat) will be greater than the differential points you will gain by permaboosting, making the strategy one with negative expected value.

[blaa]

4 hours ago, Observer_X said:

I'll be sincere, I still don't understand people rushing in leagues.

like I pointed already out, there are good reasons for rushing in the league, but of course not from an "economic" standpoint, i.e. getting the best place for the fewest kobans. Let's make two exampels for other good reasons: You are in hurry and cant play the rest of the week but you are not interessted in losing any experience and maybe even a good placement in the league. Secondly, you dont care what economics say, you just have the urge to finish what possibilities the game is presenting you

[Chthugha]

Rushing also has a cascading effect on xp gain. The earlier you get to the next level, the faster you will get missions for a higher level, which will give you more xp. In higher leagues, people will only level about once a week, so the gain over a week from beating your opponents at higher level will be minimal. Therefore, if you can level up early, it will slowly build you an advantage in leveling. Granted, it is not a big effect.

[Observer_X]

@blaa, we, for sure, have quite different vievs on the matter:

13 hours ago, blaa said:

You are in hurry and cant play the rest of the week but you are not interessted in losing any experience and maybe even a good placement in the league.

Let's suppose to use again the example of my previous post, together with my stats. I am level 358, and I gain around 250 exp for a battle won in the leagues. In the hypothesis that I am able to win all the 315 battles of that league (which in reality, given my stats and my actual league, is absolutely false, but again, this is only to give the idea), that would get me a total of (roughly) 78750 experience points. At my level more or less 65 - 70k experience is needed to gain a level. Now, as I see it, the question is: "Is an expense of more or less 5000 kobans (or 4020, if you prefer), and the savings of a week of efforts, worth the gaining of a little more than one level and maybe a good placement?". Everyone is obviously free to think his own way, but if you ask me, even taking into account @Chthugha considerations on leveling early (which previously I hadn't thought of), the answer is no.

13 hours ago, blaa said:

Secondly, you dont care what economics say, you just have the urge to finish what possibilities the game is presenting you

I dunno if you can define yourself as one, but as I see it this is reserved to game whales, and I must admit that i would find a little silly a non-whale player considering this possibility (no offense intended). Obviously, this goes as unsaid if you were just thinking out every possibility that came to your mind.

[blaa]

@Observer_X we probably have the same (or at least a similiar) view on the topic, i guess, both reasons are not my reasons, would never spend so much kobans for some xp or just to finish something, but, they are good reasons for some people, especially if money doesnt matter to you.

I was trying to say that it is unreasonable to assume everybody has the same economic/strategic view on the game, hence there is no reason to mock people who are rushing (i am not saying you did this) cause they could have their own good reasons for doing it

[Observer_X]

Oh, I can assure you mocking was not my intention. Despite the fact I don't like how one plays, I am in no position to tell anyone how to play. As you may already know, I often said "one's account, one's decisions".

The point was slightly different. The main question, probably, may have been put as "why people plays this way, if it is quite certain that common sense is against it?" Your reasoning that people have their own reasons is surely good, but the fact that so many people have reasons that in their view are more important than common sense, leave me perplexed and a little weirded.

[blaa]

Not sure, if there is a concept like "common sense" - but you probably mean, that people play against something what most people do (and think it's the best way to play it), is common sense, and if so, just let me say two things: Yeah, i understand your feeling of being perplexed and little weired (it's most of the time the same feeling for me, but I am trying to be more open and less evaluative) and secondly, you of all players, are someone who is obviously playing against common sense (no offense!), cause you are not spending some of these precious kobans to gain a small advantage (and most likely a lot of people are perplexed too when they hear how you are playing the game)