Tiers for Villains - Your thoughts, please

[Zorba the Geek]

Since Tiers for Villains was introduced I became a fan.  Already I've managed to recruit Aghates in three accounts and Hima in one.  I'm close to getting Xia in this account.  It's distracted me a bit from what should be my main purpose - to try for Circus Event girls.  However, in trying for Carine I have a chance of gaining shards for Xia as well, as has been the case.  The thing about these Tier girls is that they are all Epic, and this is a real plus, especially in levelling up girls against The champions.

The interesting thing about this new system for me is the story behind some of the girls.  Take Aghates for example - very mysterious and, as her profile asks, who is she?  More will be revealed in time, apparently.  And we were told some upgrades to 5 stars may be in store.  Are these for the Tier girls (and Aghates herself), or for other boss and event girls who have been neglected for too long?  With Aghates, I feel her secret lies in her queen who appears in her final affection scene.  This queen is surely Esperance, one and the same, and she becomes available to try for once Dark Lord's level reaches 80 or more  However, it will take 500 battles against DL from his base of 30 to get the chance to try for her.  I may be wrong of course, but I suspect the secret behind Aghates lies with Esperance's affection scenes that will be revealed once we recruit and upgrade her.  All the same, Agate, herself, has proven herself to be a changling, long portrayed in her Ninja form.  Hint, hint!  I don't think she's Agate, but this is probably the most interesting subplot regarding the Tier girls.

Hima is very cute, other than being really huge from time to time, and she has a wonderfully curvy body and fantastic tits in her second star pose.  I don't really know about the last three, but this remains to be seen.  Bolt, who is held by Finalmecia, seems to be a dead-ringer for the the sexy redhead who first appeared in Trapped City and was trying to keep the Nymphobies at bay.  I think it's the same girl.  And check out Finalmecia's outfit (or lack thereof!).  Eventually Kinkoid et al. would just have to make her available for our harems, as members have long been clammering for, and this new pose is a form of teasing and torture by HH.  I hope they enjoy it.

I can't go far without commenting on the artwork.  I'm a bit disappointed.  Xia and Balista (the latter attached to Jackson's Crew) are weirdly drawn in the poses we see when trying for them (two stars and one star respectively).  I'll say again as I have in the past: "Could do better".  This school report card has a hint of the positive because I do believe it.  The artist who drew them has shown hints of the great, but needs to be much more consistent and show much more care with drawing them.  The thing about this game right across the board is that the girls represent real personas, fantasy perhaps, but real nonetheless over the years the game has been running.  There needs to be great care in the artwork to faithfully portray and maintain this, as well as achieving anatomical accuracy and real sexiness.  Pretty good, though, with Hima and Bolt.

Tiers for Villains itself... Those who have played HH for some time have long complained about having to battle Dark Lord for a measly and unchanging 3,500 in cash, and probably no girls left to win from him, other than the event girl.  Having an event girl attached to Dark Lord is great and fair for newbies, however, and I accept this.  With the Tiers for Villains system we can try for Aghates and see DL levelling up every 10th win against him with an increasing cash payout each win.  The other thing, too, is that a number of members have reported farming Roko when their cash reserves were a bit down.  Now they have a chance for increasing amounts of cash, as well as eventually getting Hima as a bonus - the same for Jackson's Crew, and with even more cash in their case.

Aghates is relatively easy to get, as with the three regular boss girls, Sheheramazond, Kimie and Arcana, and this is an incentive to play.  So it seems to be a win-win for the newbies and more advanced players alike.

For those players who might think switching to Tier II would dilute their chances of getting one of the event girls, so far I have found this not to be the case.  I managed to recruit Winter Agate before Aghates and her drop rate seemed as it was before in those accounts where I had already recruited her.  So I don't think there's a disadvantage, or if there is, it's slight.  For the event girls the drop rate has always been fixed anyway.

The other plus is that battling Jackson's Crew in Tier II results in a payout of significant cash this time, better than for Roko (given that their top base level is 350), but, as with the others, they level up only every 10th win against them.  Playing against Roko in Tier II when trying for Sugu in Epic Days meant I was able to gain a lot of shards on Hima (albeit more slowly in keeping with the fact that the drop rate from bosses decreases as one moves up in the worlds - quite fast for DL and dropping off to boredom and despair for Jackson's Crew).

So far, only four bosses are part of the tier system, but this must surely be set for more inclusions, with further tiers added to them as has been the case for DL.

Finally, some caution.  If you still have regular girls to gain from a villain where Tiers for Villains applies, when you switch over to Tier II the opportunity to try for them disappears with only the Tier Alpha showing in the rewards panel.  This is despite the fact that only the original Alpha has been replaced by the Tier Alpha, none of the others.  This is the dilemma I face.  In Peckerbird, I still have a girl to get from Jackson's Crew, but I'm keen for extra cash from time to time and the chance to try for Balista.  So it's one or the other for me.  And the longer I delay recruiting my last regular girl the longer it's going to take for me to move onto Digisekai, as my policy is not to move to the next world until I've recruited all the girls from the one previous.  I really, really want Acadia, though, since she is so very cute - and a cat!  Ohh, having to choose!

What are your own thoughts about this new system?  I'd be keen for you to share.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Zorba the Geek
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[Karyia]

I think it's definitely positive... after all, and as you say, it adds gameplay.

More (free) girls, more levels and income from bosses, added time to play... can't go wrong with that, I think.

Just one thing... I think Esperance is the sole Legendary, the remaining ones are all epics.

I haven't gotten any of them yet... weirdly enough, I must have had some bad luck, as I got both Selene and Winter Agate from DL but only reached 76 with Akhates, the drop rate went smoothly with Selene but way down with Winter Agate, for some reason. I'll hopefully get her, next time an event has a girl on DL.

I do think you should have your post tagged as potential spoilers 😅😂

Can't talk about the artwork but about the availability, I suppose they were either testing this first or didn't have more available at the moment but I think this was a very positive feature, so I expect the others bosses to get more of the same  

 

[DvDivXXX]

Thanks for making this thread. As you know, there's already been a fair bit of discussion about this new feature in the thread dedicated to the Patch Notes that introduced it, but obviously that thread also addressed many other things, and it died down by now. Since this is a permanent improvement, it's good to have a separate thread just for it.

I'll still link to the previous one here for reference:

And I guess I'll mostly quote my own long-ass post from there if I answered your OP directly, so I'll cite it as well to save some time. ^^

On 12/28/2019 at 9:44 AM, DvDivXXX said:

The concept of villain tiers is really, really great. In the long run, this makes boss fights more valuable during events, and it extends the regular game's durability by a lot, in a way that's fun and compelling in my opinion. I love the idea, and I genuinely think it improves the game in a meaningful way. Thanks for that, Kinkoid!

However, there are two issues I'd like to point out about this concept's initial implementation (long term, I know they plan on adding tiers to all villains, so in a year or two this won't matter anymore, but it does right now):

1/ If you're going to start with just a handful of bosses, why these?

• Dark Lord: great. Super early game, fantastic and the obvious first choice, I agree.
• Donatien: good. Early-ish mid game, used for events often enough that it's still a decent pick.
• Finalmecia: questionable. Deep into the mid game, unreachable for most newer players, and didn't really "punish" veterans during events.
• Roko Sensei: very bad. Already an early late game boss, super grindy to begin with, and definitely out of reach for newer players.
• Jackson’s Crew: ridiculously bad. Extremely late game boss, extremely grindy in the first place. It's arguably a bad idea to extend this boss' grind even for most veterans...

The obvious, most logical choices should have been exactly:

• Dark Lord (well done!)
• Ninja Spy (you missed the mark)
• Gruntt (you missed the mark)
• Edwarda (you missed the mark)
• Donatien (hey! you got two out of five right... except that this one was nowhere near as much of a priority as the previous three...)

This is especially apparent because you placed event girls on the early game bosses who still suck, for both events we've had since this feature was added. Spending kobans for pocket change on Ninja Spy in order to get Kyoto during Epic Days was more frustrating than usual because of this. In the current Orgy Days event, now that I'm done fighting Dark Lord for Agate, I have a choice between farming the atrociously designed Holiday on a good boss, and farming actually good girls on the new weakest bosses in the game... Had you distributed the new tiers in the order that made the most sense, as listed above, both of those events would have been much more enjoyable.

2/ Why make the Tier 2 girls 3-star epics?

This might look flashy at first glance, like "oh! nice, they're giving us free epics!" but knowing the game mechanics, it's just about the least useful they could have been as regular map girls, for most if not all players. 3-star epics aren't good enough for a battle team, not even in the early game. Epics also cost a lot to upgrade but don't give a better income than lower rarities.

I'm going to make two separate lists of what I think would have been more useful, one with more work required, and another with the same amount of work (while still being realistic, I don't expect them to be on par with the best of the best either).

With more dev work required (2 extra poses and affection scenes per girl):

1. Five-star Starter girls. Dirt cheap to upgrade, a great income boost, and a great pick for an early-game battle team.
2. Five-star Common girls. Cheap to upgrade, a great income boost, and a great pick for an early-game battle team.
3. Five-star Rare girls. Not too expensive to upgrade, great income boost, and a great pick for an early/mid-game battle team.
4. Five-star Epic girls. Very expensive to upgrade, but a fantastic investment for an early/mid-game battle team.

Without any additional work required on the devs' end:

1. Three-star Starter girls. Dirt cheap to upgrade, good income boost.
2. Three-star Common girls. Cheap to upgrade, good income boost.
3. Three-star Rare girls. Not too expensive to upgrade, good income boost.

That's about it. I can see that the plan seems to be for Tier 3 girls to be 3-star Legendary girls, which is much more useful than 3-star Epics, although reaching them will probably require playing long enough that you might no longer need them for your battle team by the time you get them (I'm mostly saying this with early-game bosses and newer players in mind, here, so only Dark Lord so far). Anyone can benefit from more 3-star Legendaries in the long run, though, if only for Champions (whereas 3-star Epics... not so much).

Again, the idea is still great in and of itself, and at least Dark Lord's upgrade is a big improvement already. I just think the initial launch of this feature could have been done better with little to no extra work required. Here's hoping that the next villains to get extra tiers will be the relevant ones, and that perhaps you'll reconsider the usefulness of 3-star Epics on the map. Thanks for your time, and for designing and implementing this great feature, even if it's not ideal yet.

I'll still answer your post below, though (why not).

[Zorba the Geek]

Just now, Karyia said:

I think it's definitely positive... after all, and as you say, it adds gameplay.

More (free) girls, more levels and income from bosses, added time to play... can't go wrong with that, I think.

Just one thing... I think Esperance is the sole Legendary, the remaining ones are all epics.

I haven't gotten any of them yet... weirdly enough, I must have had some bad luck, as I got both Selene and Winter Agate from DL but only reached 76 with Akhates, the drop rate went smoothly with Selene but way down with Winter Agate, for some reason. I'll hopefully get her, next time an event has a girl on DL.

I do think you should have your post tagged as potential spoilers 😅😂

Can't talk about the artwork but about the availability, I suppose they were either testing this first or didn't have more available at the moment but I think this was a very positive feature, so I expect the others bosses to get more of the same  

 

Oh, you're absolutely right!  Thanks for the correction.  The carrot they're offering is getting better and better.  How many boss girls that stay available are legendary, or Epic for that matter?  I'll have to farm DL much longer (girl-less) to get to the happy state where I have a chance to try for her - she's hardcore I notice.  He's at lvl 45 now in Peregrine Took so it seems like I've only just started climbing the hill to get to Esperance, but I'll limit this, at first, to my HC accounts.

I wonder if they'll do the same for any future Tier III girls, or will this be exceeding the generosity of Kinkoid and his team?

[Karyia]

Just now, Zorba the Geek said:

Oh, you're absolutely right!  Thanks for the correction.  The carrot they're offering is getting better and better.  How many boss girls that stay available are legendary, or Epic for that matter?  I'll have to farm DL much longer (girl-less) to get to the happy state where I have a chance to try for her - she's hardcore I notice.  He's at lvl 45 now in Peregrine Took so it seems like I've only just started climbing the hill to get to Esperance, but I'll limit this, at first, to my HC accounts.

I wonder if they'll do the same for any future Tier III girls, or will this be exceeding the generosity of Kinkoid and his team?

No worries! 👍Indeed Pretty cool, right? These were the first, I think. There were a few rares but no epic or legendaries, if I'm not wrong.

Go for it! 💪

I think that would be what to expect... if for nothing else, at least for coherence... after all, I suppose a KH and Charm legendaries are coming in tier 3 in other bosses... it would be the logical thing, at least. It should take some time though.

[Zorba the Geek]

Thanks for that feedback.  I was basing much of my commentary on the patch notes and the discord postings that were made available, but may not have been widely read.  You're right about the pros and cons of rarity in the girls.  Furthermore, as we move higher up in our levels, even the epic girls aren't worth as much, but may be handy against the champions.  Even the 3-star legendaries in the right class are losing their gloss and are expensive to upgrade.  So this generosity is is merely keeping things on par.

[Karyia]

The cost is too high. The 3-star legendaries might have their value, depending on what you've got (I'm currently grooming one to be my alpha, since I don't have better).

The epics aren't worth it, IMO. But hey... they are girls, they earn and they add more "value" than if they didn't exist. You can just get them and upgrade them with time.

The problem for me is really the "high-earners"... there just aren't enough, right now. And if making more available would be troublsome, in some way, than at least, a few of the higher rarities girls should at least earn something more, a medium term if you will. The highest are around 3,5k and the "normal" is 1,3k.

Couldn't there be higher rarity girls earning something like 2k? 🤔 It would help greatly with the cost it involves upgrading them.

[Zorba the Geek]

3 minutes ago, Karyia said:

No worries! 👍Indeed Pretty cool, right? These were the first, I think. There were a few rares but no epic or legendaries, if I'm not wrong.

Go for it! 💪

I think that would be what to expect... if for nothing else, at least for coherence... after all, I suppose a KH and Charm legendaries are coming in tier 3 in other bosses... it would be the logical thing, at least. It should take some time though. 

Yes, on past performance, six months to a year.  Kinkoid and team use the word 'balance' a lot and it makes sense to introduce know-how and charm girls at the earliest opportunity.  Hell, though, I'd imagine we'd have to level up Jackson's crew to 450 at least before we could move onto the third tier.  With Roko, I'm probably well on the way to levelling him to the required minimum to play him in Tier III.  It'll be swings and roundabouts and many sacrifices.  I moved heaven and earth to get Hima because I was too impatient.  Cost me heaps of kobans but I clawed some back by getting first place in the contests for this effort.  She's so damn cute!  Imagine going caving inside her pussy and meeting a raging flood coming the other way!

[DvDivXXX]

5 hours ago, Zorba the Geek said:

The thing about these Tier girls is that they are all Epic,and this is a real plus, especially in levelling up girls against The champions.

It's really not. It's actually a straight up downside in my opinion (see my old post quoted above for more details). In short, 3-star Epics take more than they give back, and we get tons of them from events and/or pachinko already. Adding even more of them on the regular map wasn't a good idea at all. Almost any other frequently seen mix of rarity and number of stars would have been preferable, basically.

5 hours ago, Zorba the Geek said:

And we were told some upgrades to 5 stars may be in store.  Are these for the Tier girls (and Aghates herself), or for other boss and event girls who have been neglected for too long? 

I hope those upgrades will focus on Starter and Common girls first and foremost, when/if they are actually implemented. Those are the girls who have the biggest impact on our harem economy, by far. It would be good for players in general and truly great for new(er) players in particular. Now, of course, a 5-star Epic is much more useful than a 3-star Epic in the long run, but there's also the issue that most long-time players already have Legendaries that those wouldn't top for their battle team, and that new(er) players will struggle to upgrade them initially, whereas 5-star Commons and especially 5-Stars Starters pay you back for upgrading them fairly quickly and then give a big boost to your overall harem income (again, especially relevant for newer players, but still useful for anyone).

5 hours ago, Zorba the Geek said:

For those players who might think switching to Tier II would dilute their chances of getting one of the event girls, so far I have found this not to be the case.

This has been confirmed officially, I'm fairly sure, but also in practice, as you mentioned. Chances and drop ranges for event girls are unaffected by the parameters of the villain you happen to fight for them.

5 hours ago, Zorba the Geek said:

Finally, some caution.  If you still have regular girls to gain from a villain where Tiers for Villains applies, when you switch over to Tier II the opportunity to try for them disappears with only the Tier Alpha showing in the rewards panel.  This is despite the fact that only the original Alpha has been replaced by the Tier Alpha, none of the others.

This was also clear from the patch notes I think (or at least from the original discussion it prompted), but some players are still confused, as we've seen a few posts pop up here and there about girls who "disappeared from the boss", so it doesn't hurt to reiterate. Moving to a new Tier means leaving any obtainable girl from previous Tiers behind, whether you obtained them or not, so it's generally not a good idea (even if leveling up the boss itself is something you'd like to do ASAP). I expect to have this dilemma for Finalmecia fairly soon, because I'm still very far from obtaining any of her Tier 1 girls, but I'm getting very close to unlocking her Tier 2. Do I let her stagnate at Level 260 (IIRC) until I clear her Tier 1 girls, or do I go to Tier 2 for better rewards, and eventually go back to Tier 1 for those girls? It isn't ideal, but that's a choice many players will have to make at some point or another.

5 hours ago, Zorba the Geek said:

I can't go far without commenting on the artwork.  I'm a bit disappointed. 

You're too kind. ^^ I'm extremely disappointed by and genuinely concerned about the massive drop in art quality and consistency over the past few months (I'm sure this comes as a shocker, as I haven't been vocal enough about this issue just yet lol). The last batch of new girls that came with art I was really okay with was the  Far West 2019 event back in November, and the last batch of new girls that had mostly satisfactory art in my eyes was  Wicked Xmas 2019 last month. Besides terrible new permanent pachinko girls introduced here and there in that time frame, unfortunately the new year started with the first batch of new girls I'm completely unsatisfied about in terms of art: Circus 2020.

It goes without saying that if a beloved character from the good old days gets upgraded from 3 stars to 5, and the new poses and affection scenes are in line with the terrible recent art rather than faithful to the game's core visual identity, it will further taint this game's great legacy in my opinion. I hope they (re-)hire professional artists before moving forward with this plan.

[GeorgeMTO]

13 minutes ago, Zorba the Geek said:

Hell, though, I'd imagine we'd have to level up Jackson's crew to 450 at least before we could move onto the third tier.

I'd highly recommend reading the patch notes about a feature before trying to start a discussion topic on it. You'd get less haremette names wrong, as well as know what level you'd need the villain to get to to max out their tier (615 for Jackson's Crew) 

 

[Karyia]

21 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

It's really not. It's actually a straight up downside in my opinion (see my old post quoted above for more details). In short, 3-star Epics take more than they give back, and we get tons of them from events and/or pachinko already. Adding even more of them on the regular map wasn't a good idea at all. Almost any other frequently seen mix of rarity and number of stars would have been preferable, basically.

 

Well, I wouldn't call it exactly a downside but not useful or valuable either. But I do agree that they may very well be the worst that could be had.

On the other hand, they're free and they add to what we have, so.... not exactly zero either  

 

22 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

I hope those upgrades will focus on Starter and Common girls first and foremost, when/if they are actually implemented. Those are the girls who have the biggest impact on our harem economy, by far. It would be good for players in general and truly great for new(er) players in particular. Now, of course, a 5-star Epic is much more useful than a 3-star Epic in the long run, but there's also the issue that most long-time players already have Legendaries that those wouldn't top for their battle team, and that new(er) players will struggle to upgrade them initially, whereas 5-star Commons and especially 5-Stars Starters pay you back for upgrading them fairly quickly and then give a big boost to your overall harem income (again, especially relevant for newer players, but still useful for anyone).

Agreed. I'll just copy what I said earlier.

"The problem for me is really the "high-earners"... there just aren't enough, right now. And if making more available would be troublesome, in some way, than at least, a few of the higher rarities girls should at least earn something more, a medium term if you will. The highest are around 3,5k and the "normal" is 1,3k.

Couldn't there be higher rarity girls earning something like 2k? 🤔 It would help greatly with the cost it involves upgrading them."

Would you think this would help? Of course, starter/common would be perfect cost-wise but if not available, at least try to create a middle term somehow?

 

22 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

(I'm sure this comes as a shocker, as I haven't been vocal enough about this issue just yet lol).

Just -> 😂😂🤣

 

22 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

The last batch of new girls that came with art I was really okay with was the  Far West 2019 event back in November, and the last batch of new girls that had mostly satisfactory art in my eyes was  Wicked Xmas 2019 last month. Besides terrible new permanent pachinko girls introduced here and there in that time frame, unfortunately the new year started with the first batch of new girls I'm completely unsatisfied about in terms of art: Circus 2020.

It goes without saying that if a beloved character from the good old days gets upgraded from 3 stars to 5, and the new poses and affection scenes are in line with the terrible recent art rather than faithful to the game's core visual identity, it will further taint this game's great legacy in my opinion. I hope they (re-)hire professional artists before moving forward with this plan.

At this rate and if it continues, the "new" event every month should consider mixing a few "revivals" in there 🙄😅

Honestly, so much of the stuff I get to see from opponents in the arena from previous girls really is so appealing.

[Zorba the Geek]

53 minutes ago, DvDivXXX said:

It's really not. It's actually a straight up downside in my opinion (see my old post quoted above for more details). In short, 3-star Epics take more than they give back, and we get tons of them from events and/or pachinko already. Adding even more of them on the regular map wasn't a good idea at all. Almost any other frequently seen mix of rarity and number of stars would have been preferable, basically.

I hope those upgrades will focus on Starter and Common girls first and foremost, when/if they are actually implemented. Those are the girls who have the biggest impact on our harem economy, by far. It would be good for players in general and truly great for new(er) players in particular. Now, of course, a 5-star Epic is much more useful than a 3-star Epic in the long run, but there's also the issue that most long-time players already have Legendaries that those wouldn't top for their battle team, and that new(er) players will struggle to upgrade them initially, whereas 5-star Commons and especially 5-Stars Starters pay you back for upgrading them fairly quickly and then give a big boost to your overall harem income (again, especially relevant for newer players, but still useful for anyone).

This has been confirmed officially, I'm fairly sure, but also in practice, as you mentioned. Chances and drop ranges for event girls are unaffected by the parameters of the villain you happen to fight for them. 

This was also clear from the patch notes I think (or at least from the original discussion it prompted), but some players are still confused, as we've seen a few posts pop up here and there about girls who "disappeared from the boss", so it doesn't hurt to reiterate. Moving to a new Tier means leaving any obtainable girl from previous Tiers behind, whether you obtained them or not, so it's generally not a good idea (even if leveling up the boss itself is something you'd like to do ASAP). I expect to have this dilemma for Finalmecia fairly soon, because I'm still very far from obtaining any of her Tier 1 girls, but I'm getting very close to unlocking her Tier 2. Do I let her stagnate at Level 260 (IIRC) until I clear her Tier 1 girls, or do I go to Tier 2 for better rewards, and eventually go back to Tier 1 for those girls? It isn't ideal, but that's a choice many players will have to make at some point or another.

You're too kind. ^^ I'm extremely disappointed by and genuinely concerned about the massive drop in art quality and consistency over the past few months (I'm sure this comes as a shocker, as I haven't been vocal enough about this issue just yet lol). The last batch of new girls that came with art I was really okay with was the  Far West 2019 event back in November, and the last batch of new girls that had mostly satisfactory art in my eyes was  Wicked Xmas 2019 last month. Besides terrible new permanent pachinko girls introduced here and there in that time frame, unfortunately the new year started with the first batch of new girls I'm completely unsatisfied about in terms of art: Circus 2020.

It goes without saying that if a beloved character from the good old days gets upgraded from 3 stars to 5, and the new poses and affection scenes are in line with the terrible recent art rather than faithful to the game's core visual identity, it will further taint this game's great legacy in my opinion. I hope they (re-)hire professional artists before moving forward with this plan.

Yes, your last point is extremely important re. the artwork.  You're absolutely on the mark and I couldn't have put it better myself!  If the 4 and 5 star affection additions are too out of character from the original I, for one, would be gutted.  But then we have older precedents.  Take Regine for example.  Her 4 and 5 star poses are totally different from her older originals, even in hair colour and its gloss.  Also, by the ratio of head to body size, she is also taller, with bigger and somewhat inflated boobs too.  But then, she's different again in her Festival and Travel Regine versions, but this time there's a considerable improvement because she was drawn still mostly faithful to the original.  That artist almost certainly created the Xmas 2018 and some of the Shokushu Tales girls, and probably some others I can't think of at this moment.  A very good artist able to capture subtle expressions and sexiness.

This is a big problem HH have because the game has been going for three and a half years and would've had a turnover of artists during this time.  Each is different and brings his/her own interpretation and style to the work.  But if, like the new artist, this style deviates so dramatically from the original artwork HH may as well give up and start the game over, or sack the artist.  I suggested they introduce a critique panel of professionals to review all artwork before it is released because they have had some horrendous fails over the years and sometimes had to do some hasty redrafts after publication.  This is not an acceptable outcome.  The other problem I have is that the new artwork creates supposedly different girls that are too similar to one another (even down to their hairstyles) and this does nothing to establish the personas of the girls.  Artistic expression is one thing; being faithful to a three and a half year genre is another.

Your points about Epic and Legendary versus Rare and Common are well made.  As a point, I had Shina as my beta girl in one of my accounts for some time and Derri is still my alpha in Lili (both were cheap to upgrade).  Many people still have Justine as their alpha because her opening stats were so great for hardcore and kept building on these with each upgrade.  She's still better than many of the most recent 3 star legendaries that cost a relative fortune to upgrade, but they'd be good to have for newer player, but who as yet lack the resources to upgrade them quickly.  Then there's Legendary Dameda.  Her max harem payout?  530!!  Since she's described as a 'totally useless kunoichi' and her career is 'human toilet' it would seem this is all she is worth to be pimped out to the Johns.  But really!?  That payout just sums up the lousy returns for upgrading some of these legendaries, even a few 5 stars like Levitya.  The last five 3 star legendaries I obtained in the right classes for me never made it to my team, even against the likes of Travel Gwenaelle who remains my beta in one of my KH accounts.  The addition of Keiko to join Fabienne and Norou in Peregrine Took finally knocked her out of the team.

[DvDivXXX]

Thanks. Yep, we completely agree, here.

Speaking of Levitya, at least she has some amazing drawings going for her, even though she's pretty outdated in terms of stats. I've never seen her affection scenes, and I'm not going to for who knows how long, even if I catch her eventually, but her poses are very classy. Her final pose in particular contains my all-time favorite drawing of Abraël, a character I love even though none of her incarnations has been useful to me as far as gameplay goes (not even her Hentai Clicker version, which I have). Every time I face an opponent with poor Levitya as their Alpha, I'm thankful for the opportunity to see that beautiful depiction of Abraël, even briefly. That's how good (a lot of) the art used to be in this game. No one with an eye for quality drawings is ever going to feel that way about the recent failures they've introduced.

[Zorba the Geek]

2 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

I'd highly recommend reading the patch notes about a feature before trying to start a discussion topic on it. You'd get less haremette names wrong, as well as know what level you'd need the villain to get to to max out their tier (615 for Jackson's Crew) 

 

You're too kind.  I stand corrected.

[Chthugha]

I want to call this thread tl;dr 🤔

[_shal_]

(removed, was already addressed)

Edited January 4, 2020 by _shal_

[Mihai]

On 1/4/2020 at 12:03 PM, DvDivXXX said:

Thanks. Yep, we completely agree, here.

Speaking of Levitya, at least she has some amazing drawings going for her, even though she's pretty outdated in terms of stats. I've never seen her affection scenes, and I'm not going to for who knows how long, even if I catch her eventually, but her poses are very classy. Her final pose in particular contains my all-time favorite drawing of Abraël, a character I love even though none of her incarnations has been useful to me as far as gameplay goes (not even her Hentai Clicker version, which I have). Every time I face an opponent with poor Levitya as their Alpha, I'm thankful for the opportunity to see that beautiful depiction of Abraël, even briefly. That's how good (a lot of) the art used to be in this game. No one with an eye for quality drawings is ever going to feel that way about the recent failures they've introduced.

I won't understand what is with this gutting new art style. Kinkoid is just butchering their own game! By the way I love Levitya and I have her ever since she was added, I will tell you only that all her affection scenes include Abrael; and since you like her 5th pose so much and I already have her tenured in my background image, here she is.

 

[linkdream]

I like the idea. The new boss design is great and Jackson especially is now the best boss for grinding money.

I think they made a very smart choice by scattering the tiers the way they did. New players have Dark Lord and Donatien. Old players have Roko and especially Jackson which became even better now with this feature.

There are 2 issues though:

- The new girls art is bad.

- During events the new tier bosses don't have alternate design that match the event girls unlike the basic ones. My guess is that was an oversight when the designers came up with the idea and now they are cursing it and said fuck it, we don't have the resources to redesign every tier. It's a shame but understandable especially with the concerning lack of good chara designer right now.

Edited January 6, 2020 by linkdream

[Bomba]

My thoughts on Tiers for Villains.

Great idea. It gives something to do after you maxed out bosses. It gives a sense of “pride and accomplishment” for reaching a new tier. And it increases the rewards. Also it adds new girls. What is there not to love?

Bad art. For the girls which are supposed to be great rewards for defeating new tiers of Villains they look poor. It's the same art quality which was mentioned in every recent thread. Art quality here is low.

The only thing that could be debatable is rarity. It works great for low-level villains(from Dark Lord to Donatien), because getting an Epic or especially Legendary girl is very hard for the new players. If it's the event epic girl she will be at the latest boss(between those bosses that have an event girl), not always reachable for new players and if it's epic (or legendary) days event there's a very low chance that they will get the girl. So giving an Epic on tier 2 and Legendary on tier 3 there is a great idea. But for the later bosses it's not so great. If the player reached tier 2 of Jackson's Crew then that player probably has the whole team of 5 star Legendaries. But I think consistency is good in this case. So I think it's fine that tiers for later bosses don't provide great girls(in comparison to their teams, which are supposed to have legendaries at that point). Because for later bosses an increase in money in those tiers are more valuable for high-level players than a new girls.

[GeorgeMTO]

29 minutes ago, Bomba said:

If it's the event epic girl she will be at the latest boss(between those bosses that have an event girl)

The Epic rarity girl has not always been on the higher boss, it's basically random which one is going to be higher up.

[Bomba]

5 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

The Epic rarity girl has not always been on the higher boss, it's basically random which one is going to be higher up.

You're right.

That phrase didn't go well for me. I guess I should've left it at just "If it's the event epic girl she will be at boss, not always reachable for new players" instead of trying to elaborate what I wanted to say.

[Cantrix]

Got Hima Akhates and Xia, disappointed in the affection scenes of Xia, the poses for the girls are OK, excluding the last poses(Hima really doesn't look like her, in her other poses, Xia is well, underwhelming). I'm not reslly into Akhates removing her wig, in a pose though, ruined one of them. This should have been present in the affction scene, not the pose, but oh well. Was pretty happy when i got Hima, though.