Club Champions drop formula

[zoopokemon]

36 minutes ago, jelom said:

Some people keep complaining so now it has been changed again to a system where all players receive equal shards with a maximum of 5, and now, it is impossible to get the girl.

Sorry about that, I'm the reason they changed it again, let me explain.

Back when awakenings and gems where added to the test sever and all hell went loose on the discord Rosso started talking with us. I started talking to him in DMs and during that I tried to push for an improved formula. I explained how the last formula made it so the only way to gain more shards would be by doing more then an equal amount of impression. This was mostly because it only scaled linearly with participants count not quadratically like in the first system, that way you were encouraged to make sure everyone joins to get the most shards. Also I said how the amount's given were a lot less then the first system and that it shouldn't just be the couple few clubs at the top that are able to get the girl for most of their members in a month.

Now I knew they had no hope of coming up with a good idea, so I did it myself. Being a bit of a mathematician I knew exactly how to craft the most balanced formula to

1. Focus on rewarding equal impressions between members.
2.  Allow, but disincentivize going above equal impression.
3. Have the rewards for equal impression increase based on the participation count, to reward both active and growing clubs.
4. The shards given should be reasonably enough for an active club to finish within the month, clubs should be about helping the player base and community grow so the goal should be well within reach.

To do this I added back in some RNG with both a function for the max and min amount of shards you can gain. I also broke it into two linear functions, one for the equal impression and before, and one for after. The former increases from 1 to 0.0075(participants-1)^2+2 * 5/3 for the max and 1/3 for the min. After it reaches this amount the min function will stay constant, while the max will continue to grow at 1/4 the slope of the previous function.

full mathematical description:

Don't worry I got a chart also: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WP5N5alea0IJ3mOpATKmZafroocHmQOWRiQaCahk9sg/

But then they gave me their idea, and it was bad... all my carefully planed and mathematical nuanced idea wiped away. What we got now is even worse then I was told was going to be their idea... So yeah I fucking sorry I tried to get a good and balanced formula but now we just got fucked even harder... Starting to regret that I even tried, at least before some people could get the girl, now no one will bother...

[Moonlynx]

I favor the idea of low level players getting an opportunity to get the CC girls, too. So my first reaction to the patch notes was very positive (until I realized that the shard gain was pretty mediocre). I hope that KK reworks the new system. Maybe into a mix of the ones we've had so far?

But no matter what the final result will be, I'd like to have a little feelgood-thingy added to it: a real incentive for players who already have the girls to contribute, too. I once suggested that they should still receive some shards for a beaten champion. Which they are allowed to distribute somewhat freely among their club mates (maybe up to a certain limit per player). As a reward, everyone who already has the girl could get some gems/legendary items/whatever for every club member who gets the girl after them. Aside from doing something nice for others, this would be a win-win situation for everyone. No one is left out, everyone from level XX to 500 has an incentive to fight the club champion and even to help stronger players get the girl as fast as possible. And KK gets the positive club vibes that they probably want us to have.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Moonlynx

[Vexen666]

2 hours ago, Moonlynx said:

As a reward, everyone who already has the girl could get some gems/legendary items/whatever for every club member who gets the girl after them.

Tbh that sounds like an awesome Idea.

 

I think our main problem as a community is that we don't necessarily get what the real goals of the Rosso and the others decision makers when planning out these changes. They OC want the player base to play and be able to get the girls, but they also want us to spend as much time as we can playing with them putting out as little effort as possible...

So I'm guessing they want club champions to be a sort of thing where you continue playing when the girls you don't have are back on rotation without them having to release a bunch of new club girls, no matter your level... and they sort of get that with the new system cause on one hand you have low level players that don't need to get the girls one shard at a time so they might actually try and on the other you slow down the advance rate for high level players.

The bad thing about that is that like many people here said, it doesn't incentivize players to fight more than once. Not only that, even if people realize that if they don't spend tickets no one will get the girl, it's more than likely that only the highest level players in the club will keep playing cause that's the most cost effective way, in contrast to the previous version where if you're a strong player you'd want to contribute even if other players are stronger and can contribute more.  

So I guess a good solution for that might be lowering the impression needed from each champion so that even low level members can make a difference and if all club members participate it will take the high level players just a few more tickets to finish the champion off, and if they really want to make the time it takes to get the girl longer they can make the rest time longer.

But yeah, all in all this very much seems like a move that's against most of the player base and not for it, no matter how you look at it, and I'm saying this as a weak player that mostly earned 1 shard per drop till now.

[Morlow]

Well at least I will save lots of koban this way. Under this system I won't spend any koban on the club champion anymore. 

[kolokolo1248]

I don't think the current chart is valid. We are a team of 2, I have done 67,64% of the damage out of 68.09% (yep, I'm nearly on my own...), and it is showing that I would only get 1 shard...

[lepidocter]

Effects on my Club?

By average, we will get more shards indeed. I'll take 4 by just spending 1 ticket.

As a side effect, we are 20 active players that stare each others asking: who will spend the extra 50 tickets to defeat the Champion and collect 4 shards? No one is actually willing for.

 

Without a Math Nobel Prize like @zoopokemon own: it suffice to give rewards each 24hrs without any need to defeat the boss.

Practically, changing the engine from a standard battle, to "24h event, pay tickets, the more people pay tickets the best award for everyone".

Sometime the solution is not to mend the engine, is to rewrite it with more elegance.

 

[jamanga]

Wow they've done it again. So 5 tickets max per battle = 20 wins minimum required to beat the champ. So you have to beat them every 1.5 days... not going to even come close in my club. Let alone the remaining imbalance that myself and around 4-5 other guys still have to do 95% of the work.

Anyway, aside from @zoopokemon who is making my brain hurt (but at least knows what he is talking about), some high level ideas could be:

• The damage done in each fight is not a member-specific effort, it's a combination of the team members who have already contributed to this battle, or
• Make the CC champions "hit points" a certain number of tickets rather than damage (although this may still be hard for young players without lots of tickets), or
• lower the overall HP of the CC champ each round (least favourite idea)

I'm just trying to think of ways that all team members can contribute meaningfully.

[Methos2]

I think the formula should comprise of 4 variables: number of participants, impression percentage, number of challenges, and player level. Number of participants ensures active participation of all members. Impression percentage motivates the members (especially higher level one) to finish quicker. The number of challenges will give lower level members chance of better shard range. This variable needs to depend on the player level so that higher level players can't dominate the match.

[Alander]

Maybe for a club champion to count all the girls as level 1 and count each player of the average level for the club (since we are talking about the overall work to win)? Then every participant will be able to deal comparable damage and it will not be that only high-level players can defeat the champion.

[kolokolo1248]

Another possibility would also be that each time the champion is beaten, a set number of shards is given to the  team (let's say 20 for discussions state), and then each participant would receive from this pool based on their individual effort.

But the trick would then be that participants who already go the girl, do not take shards from the pool, the pool being shared only between participants who do not have the girl. The people who already have the girl who get the other stuff (I don't know they currently are, I've never been in this situation  )

This ensures that if someone participate more, they can get the girl faster, but it also ensures that the big hitters can still help the rest of the team after they got the girl, without taking anything from them.

[bolitho76]

Newest infos to ClubChamp drop-formula and her further development.