teams The Team(s) Selected in OTHER areas impact(s) our LEAGUE Team's Stats (Negavitvely)

[renalove]

I don't know why, but the snapshot of my league team is affected by my season team. If I select a weak team with no gear for season, the next snapshot of my league team will have all gear removed.

Edited October 26, 2023 by DvDivXXX
Mod Edit: Updated

[Horsting]

1 hour ago, renalove said:

I don't know why, but the snapshot of my league team is affected by my season team. If I select a weak team with no gear for season, the next snapshot of my league team will have all gear removed.

Might this be the reason why I never had full (offensive) stats in league table the whole time? Will immediately verify and report back. I would not rule out that it is a coincidence, since to me it looks like the snapshot stats are changing randomly back and forth without clear pattern, between at least 2 different too weak sets of stats, while I only switch between two season teams.

EDIT: I can't believe it, seems you are right. I switched the season team from #weakinseason to my main league team, and now (50 minutes later), my league table TP and stats went up. There is still a discrepancy, but at least it is close now:

Blue from league table, the others from team edit page, so defence not affected by AME or opponent's playful bonus. Very strange that while AP and ego are lower in league, TP and defence are higher. So there are multiple other factors bugging the defensive league stats.

Edited October 20, 2023 by Horsting

[Tom208]

il y a une heure, Horsting a dit :

One reason is that a #weakinseason team weakens you defensive league team as well, for whatever crazy reason ...

I'm always weak in season and I never experienced that issue.

[DvDivXXX]

I've moved these from Chit Chat to improve awareness about this bug.

There's a bit of a delay for stats to change accordingly, but this definitely happens (at least to a number of us).

@Tohru - Kinkoid @Luna - Kinkoid To summarize: it's not as simple as switching the teams as such, but having a weaker team selected in an entirely different part of the game (Season is confirmed, but I also suspect both Villains and Pantheon) currently reduces your League's team stats significantly.

This is me with the same team selected in Season as the one you see for League:

And now shortly after selecting a weaker team for Season, here's what happens to my League team:

Nothing else has changed, my boosters are the same, my equipment (both Hero and Recruits) is the same, my team is the same, my girl skills are the same. I know I barely visit Discord these days, so I can't be sure if Darkyz or Zoo or someone else already made an internal report on this for Sandman or not. Either way, this thread should hopefully help at least keeping an eye on this one.

Anyone else with further tests or info, please feel free to share here. Thanks in advance. (Pinging @Ravi-Sama too just in case ^^).

---

PS: Between this and the cloning issue some are currently experiencing (which I'm 99% sure has been reported to Kinkoid already, as it's much more noticeable), the Leagues are pretty bugged right now. =/

PPS: Yet another bug (albeit a more minor one) is also evidenced in those screenshots: my team in the list is still shown as the one I've played my final fight with (which has a Blue tag), even though that was yesterday and it's been refreshed to the team shown in detail on the right side of the pictures (and that's actually the team my opponents see, and face if they still have to fight me).

Edited October 26, 2023 by DvDivXXX
updated

[DvDivXXX]

9 hours ago, Tom208 said:

I'm always weak in season and I never experienced that issue.

Tom, I've moved your post from the SE thread to this one as it wasn't crucial to follow the discussion over there and it helps discuss the issue (and perhaps figure out if it's global or only affects some players somehow). Hoping to lure you here for further insight? Yeah, that too. ^^

[Tom208]

Il y a 15 heures, DvDivXXX a dit :

Tom, I've moved your post from the SE thread to this one as it wasn't crucial to follow the discussion over there and it helps discuss the issue (and perhaps figure out if it's global or only affects some players somehow). Hoping to lure you here for further insight? Yeah, that too. ^^

Thanks. I took a closer look at this topic and indeed, I have less good stats in league when I have a weak team in season (weak team in Pantheon doesn't seem to have an impact on the stats in league so far).
It wasn't obvious since my script displays the real stats of the selected team in league (stats you see when you fight against an opponent) but I can see a difference with the power displayed by the game.

But honestly, this difference won't change my mind about using a weak team in season when I'm not doing my season battles.

Stats with weak team in season:

Stats with the same team in league and season:

Correct stats of the team (in team selection page):

 

 

UPDATE:

Now, I have even better stats (defence and attack) than those of the selected team (Defence team in league and Attack team in pantheon and season)

 

OTHER UPDATE:

Tests without boosters

Stats of the selected team in league:

 

Stats in league (defence team in league and attack team in season):


I don't know why sometimes stats are a bit better

 

Stats in league (defence team in league and attack team in season but this time, I placed the mythic with tier 5 skill at a different slot):



Stats in league (defence team in league and weak team in season):

Edited October 26, 2023 by Tom208

[DvDivXXX]

Thanks. Well, the blue stats we see in the list are never correct and never the same as the ones we see on the team selection page or the "Go" page vs a specific opponent. Which is something weird too (along with the fact that it doesn't update the team tag after you're done doing your fights in a given league), but I'm not convinced it's related.

Without changing anything anywhere:

My stats in the list:

Don't match my stats in the "Go" screen vs a specific opponent (we're both Rainbow tagged so there's no big twist in the stats due to counter bonuses either way):

Although there's always the elemental bonuses which I guess don't apply to my stats in a vacuum, mainly the opponent's Yellow passive reduces my Defense. Here in the "Go" page vs an opponent with one Yellow in their team, my Def is even more reduced:

But pretty much everybody I face in D3 has the 7% passive by default regardless of their team. Could it be that no elemental bonuses are applied to the stats we see in the list? I have +9% in Attack, Defense and Harmony, and +13% in HP/Ego from those between the passives and my defensive team's individual members' active bonuses. Doesn't seem to fit.

 

[Horsting]

2 hours ago, DvDivXXX said:

But pretty much everybody I face in D3 has the 7% passive by default regardless of their team.

I don't 😄. For a good comparison, the team selection page from the league main page is better than the "Go" page, which is affected by defence penalty and in case counter bonus(es).

Interesting that Tom is able to get an exact stats match between team selection and league table. In my case it's like in Div's: In the league table, all but harmony are always a little lower. I have not considered that Pantheon might have an additional effect. Will also check this here.

EDIT: Pantheon team has no effect here either. Looks like it is only seasons team + some other quirk regarding GG or girl class stats, affecting TP and hence AP, ego and defence negatively. I missed that in Tom's case the stats were as well lower when just moving the GS5 girl to another position. Zoo observed shortly after GG introduction that the gear of the first girl was applied for each other girl the whole team. It is just strange than that in my case the stats are lower, since my GS5 girl has among the best GG equipped. Also it would not fit that Tom's stats match at least sometimes exactly then, as there should then always be a difference, or is it just too small?

Edited October 28, 2023 by Horsting

[jelom]

Unfortunately this bug report will make some players quit the season weakening in search of a (very small in my opinion) advantage in leagues. I am not obsessed with always winning, so I will keep putting a weak team in seasons, except the occasions when the frenzy of tasks makes me forget it.

[Horsting]

But when this bug gets solved, all players can again select a #weakinseason team without any disadvantage, whether they know about the bug or not. And a proper report raises the chance that it gets fixed (sooner).

[DvDivXXX]

Agreed. Plenty of top 4 contenders had already stopped helping out with the #weakinseason movement before this report and discussion, almost certainly because they've either noticed the bug themselves or were made aware of it as it started spreading through word of mouth. I'm confident on that because it includes quite a few serial D3 winners that I'm used to seeing with a 1-star team in Season and suddenly stopped.

So even if a few more learn about the issue through this thread or related discussions and decide to also stop helping out everyone in Season out of fear of losing points in League, it won't change much, as this trend is already taking off. Which is why I wanted to bring Kinkoid's attention to it and hopefully get it fixed rather sooner than later. Because it's detrimental to a bunch of players either way.

I'm still showing my week team in Season too, by the way, and I've also noticed plenty of fellow LAA regulars who keep doing it despite the bug. That's much appreciated as usual. But I can't really blame those who choose to stop doing that, even if it's annoying and eventually makes SE even more painful for most of us.

[jelom]

I have done some tests leaving my strong team in season for many hours including one of the hours commonly accepted as snapshots until now, I have taken some screenshots of my stats in the league main page, and of my stats against three players. I have then put my weak team in season, waited 30 minutes and checked again my stats in the main page of league and against the same three players, and then I have waited for some more hours including another snapshot and checked again. During that time I changed back and forth my team in league to make the scripts recalculate the expected result and to see if that could also affect.

I have noticed NO difference in my stats, and also not in the script predictions for players that didn't changed their teams or boosters.

I was not using AM or LM booster, and I did no fights in league or season during the test.

[Horsting]

@jelom Do you use significant recruit equipment on your regular/strong seasons team? From what we know so far, it is at least mainly the equipment bonuses which are mirrored from season to league team.

[jelom]

29 minutes ago, Horsting said:

@jelom Do you use significant recruit equipment on your regular/strong seasons team? From what we know so far, it is at least mainly the equipment bonuses which are mirrored from season to league team.

Of course, I equip all girls in my teams (except the weak one) with recruit equipment, including many half leveled mythic ones. And you can deduct that I use my strong teams in both league and season.

[Horsting]

Then the bug is even buggier/inconsistent across players 😄.

Or, ah, you do not use some older version of 430i's script where your table stats are replaced with the offensive ones, do you? That scripts' predication do not change is expected as they, of course, use the offensive stats for the simulations.

[Horsting]

Did a further test, and it really seems only the 1st season girl's gear which matters. I used the #weakinseason team and replaced only the 1st with my best geared girl, and now my defensive team is stronger than the offensive one and the very same as if I used my main team and just switched that girl to position 1:

... ehm wait, it was, but big surprise, now they are identical:

This changed since some back and forth testing last night, so probably a fix arrived today?

For completeness: TP, ego and defence of the defensive team was higher, but AP still lower. As her gear (Neferkitty) is better in any aspect compared to Bunna, if this gear was everything mirrored form season to one or every league girl, all stats must have been better:

So apart of the gear, another aspect makes/made the team weaker, also since it was weaker even when using identical teams in seasons and league, while Bunna's gear is still above average in the team.

EDIT: Okay short only, its wrong again, and again somehow different: TP and defence higher, but ego (and still AP) lower with seasons team == league team:

Switched Bunna and Neferkitty in seasons and will check back in some minutes.

EDIT2: Now looks like this:

EDIT3: Okay I think I got now the whole bug magic:

• I compared the flat attribute bonuses between the gear and the girls in offensive and defensive teams, and indeed: The equipment of the first girl in season is applied to all girls in league: From the TP differences in Harem++ inventory above divided by three (for a single attribute) matches exactly the attribute difference in league, til the single point for all unblessed girls, and for the main attribute when adding the GS2 bonus.
• The resonance bonuses themselves are however not mirrored. I did not calculate it exactly, but it fits quite well if they apply or apply not "correctly" based on whether the mirrored gear matches the respective girl or not. In the above case, Neferkitty is one of 4 dark KH girls, so the ego and defence resonance bonuses apply to all those 4 girls in the defensive team as well, and the defensive bonus to Ombresse at least. So the higher flat bonuses and preserved, sometimes even stronger ego and defence resonance bonuses lead to higher final TP, ego and defence. Only the AP resonance bonus does not apply to any other girl, hence the AP is the only attribute still lower in the defensive team.
• With Bunna at first position in seasons team, none of the resonance bonuses apply to the other girls, as she is the only HK, only submissive and only missionary pose girl in my team. Hence even that her gear is above average, leading to higher TP, due to the lost resonance bonuses, all final stats are lower.
• That sometimes defensive stats are correct means that there are circumstances where the correct gear finds its way into the snapshot. Old snapshot times, expiring boosters, I could not find an event which has this as result. The correct stats I saw when writing this comment was out of the blue and I did not see them being correct the whole week before and not since my last edit. But obviously there are different mechanisms of updating a players snapshot for different triggers.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Horsting

[DvDivXXX]

On 10/31/2023 at 1:14 PM, Horsting said:

EDIT3: Okay I think I got now the whole bug magic:

• The equipment of the first girl in season is applied to all girls in league

Thanks a lot for all this detective work and testing.

TL;DR: We should all edit our weak Season team to include our "real team" girl with the best GG pieces equipped as the "team leader", and call it a day?

---

Edit: To be clear, it's whoever happens to have the most power from GG (Girl Gear) pieces equipped, and not whoever happens to have the best stats overall (including Blessings etc.)?

So here I should put Sake as my Weak Season team's "leader", and NOT MD Lenaëlle, right?

Edited November 2, 2023 by DvDivXXX
updated

[Horsting]

1 hour ago, DvDivXXX said:

To be clear, it's whoever happens to have the most power from GG (Girl Gear) pieces equipped, and not whoever happens to have the best stats overall (including Blessings etc.)?

Right, only the equipment seems to be cloned, nothing else. And one might take into account the resonance bonuses as well: If you have many KH girls in your team, and one girl has good gear with much ego bonus, then this might make her gear better for the whole team than another one with higher flat bonuses but less matching resonance bonuses across the team.

[DvDivXXX]

15 minutes ago, Horsting said:

Right, only the equipment seems to be cloned, nothing else. And one might take into account the resonance bonuses as well: If you have many KH girls in your team, and one girl has good gear with much ego bonus, then this might make her gear better for the whole team than another one with higher flat bonuses but less matching resonance bonuses across the team.

Thanks again! <3

Based on the above, I've swapped GG pieces around in my team to give all the best flat ones I have to Lihua instead, as she has two of my level 5 mythic pieces with HC bonus matched, and I have more HC girls than the other two classes in my current attack team (3 HC, 2 KH and 2 CH, but still). I made sure to pick her instead of the other Purple girl I'm using with her GS5 enabled for my defense team, as even with super low stats, a Weak Season team with an active Reflect GS5 wouldn't be nice.

Spoiler

This will require a tidbit of extra editing once a week when Blessings and main team(s) change, but it's not a lot and well worth it imho.