The 2nd legendary days event; summary of feedback

[Cantrix]

I completely agree with the statements in the opening. The Legendary days is a disaster as it is designed now. I've spend thousands of kobans and euro to try to get Levitiya with zero success. Around 500ish battles, but i've seen horror stories with more than 700 unsuccessful attempts, which is unacceptable. I've got Norou relatively easy with only 2k kobans spend, but still i'm against the way the system is designed right now. A person in the thread about Norou has mentioned 11k kobans spend on fighting the ninja, with no success - as i said, that's unacceptable! I don't think the complete randomness is a good way to entice people to buy kobans as it doesn't guarantee any returns. Also i would like to know the drop rates if it's possible, or at least an upfront statement that it's a terribly low drop rate so i can make an informed decision - instead of hearing vague statements as being "adjusted".
Lastly i don't like the affection gifts, as again they are a completely random mechanic and most of the time can't compensate the losses of income veteran players are encountering. Some randomness might be good, but when all becomes an RNG festa the experience is becoming frustrating instead of enjoyable = that will lead to a lot of trash talking in the forums the least or even leaving the game for good.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Cantrix
adding a line

[Kassander]

7 hours ago, Chthugha said:

3. Some people want to know the drop rate and the drop system. This is not just now, but in general. I believe right now there are two different drop systems in play: 1. for event girls = flat percentage, 2. villain girls = changing percentage. People mix these two up, and then get confused. This part is really just something that should be clarified (so actually part of the communication), so that everybody knows what they are dealing with. The drop rate is something else completely. Some players want to know it, so they can make informed decisions on what to do during the event. I personally don't see the need to know the drop rate, because I can pretty accurately guess it, based on my long time playing experience. Anyway, it would be nice to get a statement from PorcoRosso or one of the other 3 OGs about why they don't want to give us the drop rate.

Could you share your estimates?

(Not everyone has an experience as long as yours. Also, player experiences vary, the more wildly the less they have been playing.)

[Chthugha]

1 hour ago, Kassander said:

Could you share your estimates?

(Not everyone has an experience as long as yours. Also, player experiences vary, the more wildly the less they have been playing.)

I am planning on making a long thread full of numbers next weekend (blegh, statistics).

[Some other guy]

8 hours ago, Chthugha said:

You can gather 10.800 kobans in two months, which I think is reasonable.

So events every two months or is that just speculation on your part.

No matter what happens people are going to complain.

1800/10800 is not to many kobans.

A legendary girl not worth 2 random chicks from Panchiko. That boggles the mind. 1: You actually get the girl you are aiming for instead of some random. 2: If you do any sort of PvP the legendary girl is pretty good for your team, some 3 star random, not so much. 3: If you are all about the scenes, you get 5 scenes for the legendary vs 6 for the 2 randoms. If you don't PvP and don't like the legendary girl's looks vibe, why even bother then. If you do, yeah she is worth 1800/10800 kobans. I'd say she is worth triple that except it introduces an element of Pay to Win.

Don't forget, if it's every 2 months, you should be able to get 1800/10800 kobans for free. People who bitch about pay to win seem to forget how much free koban the game throws at you these past 40-45 odd days between the two events.

Also we are talking maximums, you typically should be getting her for about a half a spin worth of Kobans.

Making things both fair and reasonable

The way to deal with extreme variation of results is not a firm upper cap, it is by reducing the drop rate at first and then increasing it significantly as time goes on. Using the 1800/10800 model which would get you about 1200 fights, have the first 100 be perhaps 1 in 1000 or even higher, the usual 1 in 400/500 by the 500 mark and have it start ramping up to 1% or 2% at 1000 and even higher at 1100 and so. Massage the numbers so it all works out the same except tighten the range so less people walk away with getting the girl easy and less get BOHICAed at the other end.

The legendary event does not need to be longer

The girl is gettable in the 4 days for almost everyone who gets their 25 kobans a day from missions and event missions. If they either introduce a hard cap or ramp up the drop rate at the higher range, it should be gettable for everyone.

I'd rather spend 4 days getting the legendary girl and the other 10 days either doing another event or going after boss girls/collecting money than slogging for 14 days to get the event girls.

Don't forget, if the legendary girl events go from even 4 to 8 days, they won't change they drop rates, but you can count on them decreasing the drop rate to half to compensate.*

*Yeah that joke will never get old.

 

[pirateKing]

Thanks for the effort @Chthugha

1.safety net  I would be ok with a fixed amount of kobans, but we need to know when the event is going to happen with more time

2. Communication... which is point two. Knowing that the event is coming a week beforehand won't really help everyone

3. drop rate and drop system. I don't mind that, I am just very frustrated with the Legendary Event, i think i am not the only one considering quitting the game

4.Alternative ways of doing the event Any way of doing this in which we don't feel robbed would be an improvement. If it's 100K kobans for the girl and i don't want to pay, ok, it's my decision not to pay, but leaving it all to luck sucks a lot. 

5. Legendary gifts I don't care for the gifts to be honest, I just wanted the event girl that I didn't get even though I used more than 7000 kobans as well as all the free fights I had. I get much more money fighting high level bosses, so I don't even get something close to it with Ninja Spy and Dark Lord even when we get some gifts like this time

To add to the offense, even though Norou was supposed to be Charm now I see that she is know-how, which is my specialty, so now I am also handicapped against all the other players who luckily got her even though I spent a lot on the event. Very poorly done in my honest opinion  there are many ways to improve it, and i want to be positive but i still have a really bitter taste after spending so much time grinding for nothing. I hope you guys see that this can be done much better.

[Janaff]

1. Agreed. Though the way I'd like to see it is something like:

• Same flat rate for the first 500 battles (aka 5400 kobans worth), after which it increases with each battle (like the regular boss pity timer) at such a rate that it'd essentially be impossible to go 1200 battles (aka 10800 kobans plus 4 days worth) without getting her 

2. I think they've been pretty clear about them being "legendary" and "difficult to obtain". Changing the class we were getting at the last minute was definitely awkward though.

3. Like some others have said, I couldn't care less. I see no reason anyone needs to know the exact drop rates and I think the drop system itself has been sufficiently explained. Though if people really want them to clarify the system, it shouldn't be a big deal just to assuage some players' frustrations. Putting such a clarification somewhere easily visible for newbies (like a stickied forum thread) would be nice as well.

4. Yeah, bluntly put, I think these legendary events are just an inherently garbage way to handle distributing these legendary girls. What's so legendary about a girl that literally anyone could get, RNG and limited period of time aside? The fact that you can easily have a situation where newbies get her while veterans don't (whether they're just unlucky or they miss the event or whatever) goes against the whole idea of legendary girls in the first place, IMHO. At least for the other legendary girls, it sufficiently favors veterans due to the way epic pachinko is set up (the longer you play, the less boss girls & permanent pachinko girls inside, and therefore the higher your chances of getting the event legendary). Plus, they're only 3 Star for the foreseeable future. We might as well get another "Legendary Days" event with the improvement mentioned in #1 just to round out the 3 classes, but afterwards I think non-pachinko legendary girls should be earned through achieving impressive milestones. Like "reaching level 400", "winning 25,000 PVP battles". "getting 10 bosses to max level" or maybe just "beating bosses 50,000 times", "getting harem level to 40,000", "reaching 100,000 mojo". Things like that. We keep track of all that stuff with the Tower anyway so it's not like it'd be difficult to implement.

5. This was a terrific idea and should definitely be kept for the next one. It eased the monetary punishment for fighting a low-level boss very nicely (in fact, I actually happened to gain more money getting Norou than if I had just continued fighting Roko-sensei, since he's still a ways away from max level). I honestly don't understand why anyone would think this bonus was designed to hurt their chances of getting the girl. After how much backlash they got with Levitya, how could anyone seriously think they'd lower the chances for Norou?

Edited May 21, 2018 by Janaff
removed double word

[jelom]

my comments

1. No safety net. kobans equivalent to 2 x 10 epic pachinko seems much for some people but doable for most (assuming 1 legendary every two months) but if the drop is sure then the legendary is just a question of money/patience and it will lose the emotion of getting the girl. I advocate for a progressive rate, very low at start but a decent one (more than 1%) passing the 1000 battles mark.

2. Better communication on forehand. Definitely they have to improve that. I am still amazed to have read today that some people were not aware of the legendary event. Most of us know t has been talked a lot in the forum, there is the news message, there is even a calendar in the wiki, but it will be always people who don't see that. The most simple solution, modify the background image of the game adding the words "Legendary Days" if they don't want to make a full new scene. AND do not change things in the last moment, that made a lot of people angry.

3. drop rate and drop system. I don't want to know the drop rate, I know is very low and I can live with it. It would be a bad idea to reveal it. Example: If devs said it was 1/500 then everyone who played 501+ battles will be asking why the girl didn't drop. But the drop system is another matter, and will be good to know if it is a fixed drop rate (events) or a small progression (bosses) and more details about it. Speaking only of the legendary days I have expressed my view in point one.

4. Alternative ways of doing the event. I don't have an idea for that now.

5. Legendary gifts. A good addition to compensate the loss of cash. Maintain that. Adding legendary or epic monostat gear would be welcomed too.

[bane]

9 hours ago, Chthugha said:

So I want to make this as easy as possible for Jessie and the devs.
This post is what I think is the general consensus on this latest legendary days event, and what the community thinks should change.
I will also put my recommendations in it.

1. No safety net. The spread of when people get the girl is huge, and some players even use 10.8k+ kobans to try to get her, and then don't get her. I think the whole community agrees that there should be a safety net in play. I think people are more inclined to actually use kobans, if they know there is at least some kind of reward when a lot goes wrong.
My personal suggestion is that it should be at 10.800 kobans (1800 in Nutaku kobans), or equal to two 10x epic pachinko spins. This is a legendary 5-star girl, and to me that means that she is worth a lot of kobans. You can gather 10.800 kobans in two months, which I think is reasonable.

2. Better communication on forehand. Just make sure everybody knows that she is a legendary girl, and therefore she will be hard to get for most players. The change in specialty of Norou could've been dealt with better as well.
I do think it is improving, but it's better for all of us if we understand eachother better.

3. Some people want to know the drop rate and the drop system. This is not just now, but in general. I believe right now there are two different drop systems in play: 1. for event girls = flat percentage, 2. villain girls = changing percentage. People mix these two up, and then get confused. This part is really just something that should be clarified (so actually part of the communication), so that everybody knows what they are dealing with. The drop rate is something else completely. Some players want to know it, so they can make informed decisions on what to do during the event. I personally don't see the need to know the drop rate, because I can pretty accurately guess it, based on my long time playing experience. Anyway, it would be nice to get a statement from PorcoRosso or one of the other 3 OGs about why they don't want to give us the drop rate.

4. Alternative ways of doing the event. A part of the community would like to see this whole legendary days event done differently. Maybe put up a suggestion board regarding improvements or other ways of setting this up. I know that Kinkoid is looking to improve the legendary days events, but we haven't seen their thoughts on the matter. So maybe sprout those ideas as well, so we know what you are thinking about.

5. Legendary gifts. These things raised mixed feelings. Some people didn't want them at all, because they thought they were getting in the way of getting the girl. Others were glad they were at least getting some value out of Ninja Spy. My view on the matter is that it's a good addition, and it certainly takes away part of the money loss.
Even in this point communication is important again. There was confusion over the drop system. My personal believe is that it doesn't change the chance on getting a girl, others thought it was affecting their chances on the girl. This could've been prevented if on forehand you had made a statement about the loot system.

 

I would like to ask everybody to give me feedback on this summary, and then I will make a final recap on friday.

~Chthugha

1, Where as i agree that a safety net is a good idea i think 10.8k is slightly steep for most people. I did put aside enough for 1x 10spin epic Pachinko for first event (luckily didnt need) but with the range of girls in Pachinko and still no guarantee that a legendary will drop so perhaps a range from 3000 kobans with increasing chance after failure to 7500 max for a legendary girl to drop would be a better target.

2, The last min change of class was unfortunate and could have been communicated better but i think most people would have tried to get her no matter what class she was. As for event, i think we should have realized that after the First Legendary days she would be slightly harder to get for some than a normal event girl

3, Personally i dont care whether the drop rate is known or not. It give me more enjoyment when a silhouette appears quickly but can get stressful when you enter the last day. I agree clarification wouldnt hurt just for piece of mind.

4, Maybe a compromise on villian for Legendary days event is needed. Maybe having, i dont know, Edwarda having girl, after all she has had event girls before (spring spirit, which i failed to get), this way the money drop isnt so great for those moaning at a higher level and it makes her feel more Legendary where only those playing for a few months (unless koban refils used) can get to fight. She is suposed to be Legendary after all, maybe she will feel more legendary if you have to be slightly higher lv to get her.

5, Gifts are a welcome bonus (keep them coming) but again i feel clarification is needed as to whether they reduce the chance at girl drop or not (personally i dont believe they do) and if combined with more money from higher boss should keep those unhappy campers from getting too upset.

 

[Ron K]

On 2 days of this last event ,there seemed to times that the server was overloaded, this happened on Friday while grinding on Ninja Spy,
had slow response when try to restart the battle mode after the cash/gift drop.

On the last day in the final hour, again while grinding on Ninja Spy, after the last battle cash drop, believe I was "bounced off " the server,

and could not sign back in till a 1/2 hour after the event !

Still Grinding on Gruntt, Edwarda ,and Donatien for their girls.

[saberbholt]

I will contribute something from my experience as a programmer towards the point of view of not having dissatisfaction to the users:

1) make sure that the boss has the same level for each player as his boss more to not feel that they lose money and time (forget the gifts of affection, if he wanted to buy them)

2) safety net in drops (if it is really necessary or you start losing players / income)

3) Always publish the drop rate, even if you do not like it because it is of the order of 0.05% it is necessary to not feel cheated.

4) as they indicated, an accountant of how many people got it gives security and avoids not noticing bugs in the fall (step in the first event).

5) Make sure that the changes in girls do not affect the pvp making a big difference (this can be done as they indicated that all are available by classes in each boss, for example the charms that already came out in dark lord, the hc in ninja. .. and making that by winning 1 the event for that player ends [the code is not complicated] ).

6 and finally: make a calendar every month of events, do not saturate the players and be clear and concise about why there are changes in the game as well as where it is heading (for example the changes in the pvp system, the of classes of girls, nerfeos of equipment) but, it will give the impression that you only wish to obtain the maximum of $$$ of the player and you do not mind that he has fun or the effort invested in getting equipment or to maximize the girls.

[Yamamura]

I see a lot of people is upset about the "1." statement. I would like to remind people that it's a safety net. You can still spend much lower, or with some, no Kobans at all to get the legendary girl. There are quite a few that mentioned in forums all ready that they have spent that much. I can't say I personally have gone through that, but a safety net is still a great start. The legendary girls are, at the moment at least, a once in a life time thing. Them costing the same as two girls seems good. "Seems good," not great, or amazing, just good. We need to start with some small stuff before we get to the best solutions to this problem.

[Oliver66]

I agree with everything in the original post except the 10,800 kobans. That much for 1 girl is pretty steep, 5,400 would be fair especially considering you have 0% chance of getting any legendary gear and only a small chance at getting legendary affection items. For 5,400 on Epic Pachinko you get x1 guaranteed girl, x1 guaranteed legendary item and 8 shots at epic/legendary armor/affection items. Normally I get at least 3-4 legendary gear per x10 and those cost almost 1mil when they very on rare occasion show in the shops. I wouldn't pay the 5,400 guaranteed price if I didn't get those other 9 items guaranteed.

If they gave us a chance at getting legendary gear too,10.8k kobans might be an acceptable cap. As it stands now I'll be willing to make a push to get the a charm girl at that limit just so I could have one of each class, but from then on I'd just play the events as far as the free time period allows without spending kobans on it. I'd rather focus my kobans on trying to get the x3 epic pachinko girls each month than one legendary girl every 2.

[Some other guy]

1 hour ago, Oliver66 said:

That much for 1 girl is pretty steep, 5,400 would be fair especially considering you have 0% chance of getting any legendary gear and only a small chance at getting legendary affection items

Spend 1800/10800 on kobans and you can expect about 30 legendary gifts not counting the ones from the free 192 fights.

Much better than 10 items, maybe 2 or 3 affection, a bunch of useless non stat items, epics, meh rainbow items barely above epic level for charm and maybe, maybe if you are lucky an epic single stat item, in which case the villages rejoice.

Also again, that 1800/10800 would be a worst case scenario not an average scenario, most times you would be spending less, about half the time almost none. Play a few events and your average cost wouldn't even be 900/5400

I don't know why people continue to equate the value of a legendary girl to a random spin girl. You know if the legendary girl fits your class and they are more powerful in PvP. If you don't care about PvP and have no particular interest in the girl, you might as well skip legendary events or play it for free and save your kobans as it isn't a big deal for you. For those of us who are into PvP a legendary girl who matches out class is a very very big deal and easily worth more than 1800/10800, double plus so if said girl comes around every 6 months or every three.

Even if a class girl comes across every three months, I'd rather spend 2700/16200 on her which I can do for free from contests, than get 3 random chicks. Although I suppose with 30 items you could walk away with some legendary single stat gear which would put you in the clover for about the next 50 levels. Girls are forever. But again, this is far beyond even the worst case scenario and even on average one would still be able to spin.

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by Some other guy

[Oliver66]

15 minutes ago, Some other guy said:

Spend 1800/10800 on kobans and you can expect about 30 legendary gifts not counting the ones from the free 192 fights.

Much better than 10 items, maybe 2 or 3 affection, a bunch of useless non stat items, epics, meh rainbow items barely above epic level for charm and maybe, maybe if you are lucky an epic single stat item, in which case the villages rejoice.

Also again, that 1800/10800 would be a worst case scenario not an average scenario, most times you would be spending less, about half the time almost none. Play a few events and your average cost wouldn't even be 900/5400

I don't know why people continue to equate the value of a legendary girl to a random spin girl. You know if the legendary girl fits your class and they are more powerful in PvP. If you don't care about PvP and have no particular interest in the girl, you might as well skip legendary events or play it for free and save your kobans as it isn't a big deal for you. For those of us who are into PvP a legendary girl who matches out class is a very very big deal and easily worth more than 1800/10800, double plus so if said girl comes around every 6 months or every three.

Even if a class girl comes across every three months, I'd rather spend 2700/16200 on her which I can do for free from contests, than get 3 random chicks. Although I suppose with 30 items you could walk away with some legendary single stat gear which would put you in the clover for about the next 50 levels. Girls are forever. But again, this is far beyond even the worst case scenario and even on average one would still be able to spin.

 

And I'm sure there are a decent amount of people who agree with you. The purpose of this thread was so they could gather peoples opinions on what they're willing to spend and what would make the event more enjoyable so that they can make legendary days as fun and profitable as possible. I don't disagree with you that there are lots of PvP players out there and collectors who are willing to drop over 10k for a guarantee at getting one girl to help win PvP. I just gave my opinion of what my limit was and they can do what they will with that information. I've been using 3 star abreal in PvP and am currently in 91st place for PvP wins at the tower of fame so I really don't think 1 girl is worth it even for an alpha. I will make a push one time to get a charm legendary but I'd much rather have more girls than stronger ones. That's just me and my letting the creators know what I'm willing to dedicate towards legendary days events.

My comment wasn't meant as a whine about unfairness of RNG or anything just giving feedback. 

[Some other guy]

10 minutes ago, Oliver66 said:

I've been using 3 star abreal in PvP and am currently in 91st place for PvP wins at the tower of fame so I really don't think 1 girl is worth it even for an alpha.

People really do overstate the impact of girls on PvP, they are overshadowed by the equipment and bought stats.

But dang, running a 3 star as your Alpha, that is pretty gangsta.

[Oliver66]

3 minutes ago, Some other guy said:

People really do overstate the impact of girls on PvP, they are overshadowed by the equipment and bought stats.

But dang, running a 3 star as your Alpha, that is pretty gangsta.

She's still my highest lv charm with 1083. I've been leveling her strictly with pvp affection gain and she's only 508 away from cap affection, which I think needed 28k. Just realized that's over 25k more affection than she'll need in a couple days which is a little depressing. At least I'll save a lot of money on the upgrade.

[Sombre]

The only legendary in the legendary girl are the stats. The rest is bullshit. Don't worth a common girl. I hate the graphic scene of the two legendary girl available for 4 days. Really less interesting than other girls who are free. Not worth more than 2K kobans after having see some scene of the new girl.

[trunks2585]

Bleh, I posted a few ideas in the first thread about alternate ways to do stuff, but I'll try and recap it here.

 

So I'm sure the devs won't like this idea, I'm sure I'll get told it's too much work etc. etc. but here's my suggestion anyways.

 

Scrap how the Legendary Days system currently works and replace it with a system that isn't about fighting the boss till you get the random girl drop.

 

Make the Legendary girl more into some kinda minigame and something that you have to log into every day and so something specific.  Not just one or two clicks either, but something that will keep you on the game for a while and can't be sped up with kobans.  A few ideas.

1. You battle/have sex with the legendary girl directly rather than a boss holding her and fill an affection meter over time.  However she'll limit how much progress you can make a day.  And to make this event worth it for the veteran players, let's tie player's stats to the progress made.  Higher ego means faster progress, and better rewards for each battle,  because there should be some kinda payout for battling her in case for some reason you fail to acquire her.

Again this whole idea is roughly based off how Valkerie Crusade's archwitch hunts go.  They have an affection meter that fills up and once at max, next battle is a garenteed drop of the girl.  I see no reason a similar thing can't be adopted here, even pick a spot on the home screen for where to put the legendary girl when one is active, cause I'm sure this is going to be getting milked for sure now.

 

2. scavenger hunt.  Say every day you gotta find 10-20 items somehow related to the girl, run a few errans for her to show your devotion to getting her.  These could show up anywhere in the game, even as part of story missions.  Would be a good excuse to re-read the story again and see if there's stuff players don't remember, as well as finding the objects.  And this would also act as a community project.  Just imagine the forum members talking to each other about where they found object number 9 or whatever.  Now I'd personally want there to be more to it than just 'find these items every day and you get the girl'  But I'd like it to be that if you find the items you greatly increase your chances of getting her, say convincing her to leave a boss because you did her a solid and the boss didn't.  The whole idea needs more fleshing out, but I feel it has potential.

3. I'm gonna call this the omega weapon scenario.

For those not familiar, omega weapon or ultimate weapon or what the hell ever, is a boss from FF7 you fight several times, and it doesn't recover it's health.  You battle it for a while, and it flees.  Then you track it down and fight it some more.

That idea, but applied to a unique boss that came to town with his unique girl in tow.  And this is an idea that, sorry new players, but I'd say should span the first 4 or 5 maps.  Have the boss flee from map to map with it's own set of girls and rewards and a very VERY large ego bar.  Remember that 'worlds biggest ego man' daily quest?  Make it him.  Anyways have him traveling around with his girls, and the MC decides he's going to pursue Massive Ego man and beat him in a harem battle.  The rewards you get will be varied.  If you loose he'll give you some cash or a legendary affection item for having the balls to take him on.  If you finally win, he admits that while he has more ego, MC has greater tenacity, and surrenders one of his girls to you.  Again the whole idea is to keep fighting him over and over, and he does not regain any ego health, but he's got so damn much of it, that it'll still take at least a 100 or so battles. 

This idea, along with number one, I"m sure would require a LOT of testing to balance out number of fights vs. progress being made, but I think it'd be a fun alternative to the usual.

4.  Know how we complain about having nothing to do with our energy if we are caught up on the story?  I have an idea.  Dating mini game.  Spend x amount of energy to take the legendary girl out on a date and impress her. Hell turn the whole thing into a mini dating sim, from getting to know her, to giving her gifts, to taking her on a date, and once you sleep with her, she can't live without you anymore.  The dating sim formula has been done hundreds of times in flash games, it's nothing hard to find, but might be too much to implement.  Maybe a watered down version?

 

Anyways that's my two cents on the matter.  Regarding Chthugha's original post, I have nothing to add, you covered the points, and I even gave my on suggestions for alternative ways of doing these events.

[Thefool]

I think if you want players to spend money on Kobans you should tell them the drop rate. I can't speak for anyone else but I would never in a million years consider spending money on kobans without knowing my odds. It's asking players to spend blindly, which is great for the game designers if enough people are silly enough to do it, but an unfair thing to expect.

[YoyoHH]

1 hour ago, trunks2585 said:

So I'm sure the devs won't like this idea, I'm sure I'll get told it's too much work etc. etc. but here's my suggestion anyways.

The devs won't like this idea, and I'm sure you would be told it's too much work etc. etc. (except that you likely won't get a response).

That being said, pretty much everything in your post is brilliant and would add a tremendous amount of fun, variety, and (a little bit of) complexity to the game.  Bravo.

I won't hold my breath.