xp boost post lvl 400

[Lhans]

Can we get an xp boost from lvl 400 - 425 similar to that available for below 400? These days the only way to get ahead in xp (if you do all missions and arena wins) is counted by your weekly league wins. Those really high levels have no problem beating guys of similar levels if they are equally buffed so they get xp for pretty much every fight. Those of a certain low enough level get guaranteed losses so they lose potential xp unless they could get em while they are unbuffed. I could see higher levels incrementally go farther and farther in levels as time goes by which compounds the problem of beating them in the first place. Before, you use could the arena to catch up a bit if you have the time or kobans for it (I never used kobans). Now everyone's progress is mostly the same except for the difference in league wins. Frankly I'm just tired of being a 5th-15th rank league contender if I get stuck in a league with 4 dedicated high level pvpers. Any other ways to alleviate this problem would be welcome.

[MaybeRegret]

40 minutes ago, Lhans said:

Those really high levels

If you're lvl 400-425 - you're high level.
 

41 minutes ago, Lhans said:

Frankly I'm just tired of being a 5th-15th rank league contender if I get stuck in a league with 4 dedicated high level pvpers. Any other ways to alleviate this problem would be welcome.

You can always try to go to 2-4 place. Otherwise, wait for the rework of the league, they are working on it.

[_shal_]

Also, the supposed "XP boost" below level 400 hasn't actually allowed anybody else to get ahead in XP either, unless they only started playing after that patch was made; the only tangible advantage over higher-level players comes from the massively increased story XP in the first few worlds. For everybody who was already beyond those worlds, the patch merely meant that they're falling behind less quickly than before. You're asking Kinkoid to extend something beyond level 400 that doesn't actually exist.

Edited July 1, 2020 by _shal_

[JAVhero]

10 minutes ago, _shal_ said:

the massively increased story XP in the first few worlds.

Is this XP boost the reason i'm having players in my daily contest bracket which are already playing the "Digisekai" world while i'm still at "Plain of Rituals"? Currently i'm lvl 239 but i have seen "Digisekai-Players" with levels down to 220 and lower.

[_shal_]

14 minutes ago, JAVhero said:

Is this XP boost the reason i'm having players in my daily contest bracket which are already playing the "Digisekai" world while i'm still at "Plain of Rituals"? Currently i'm lvl 239 but i have seen "Digisekai-Players" with levels down to 220 and lower.

The only way XP can affect how quickly you get through the story is via the very small amounts of bonus energy you get for levelling up, so that can't be the reason for somebody who's at a lower level than you. I would suppose they either started playing earlier than you and just levelled more slowly, or they have spent kobans and/or real money to buy extra energy.

Edit: Or maybe I interpreted your question the wrong way around. If you mean, is the XP boost the reason your level is already higher than theirs, then that might play a role if they're older players. But level 220 is very, very low for anybody who is already that far into the story, so it would only be a small reason. The bigger one would be that these players just don't bother to collect much XP from missions and leagues.

Edited July 1, 2020 by _shal_

[Lhans]

3 hours ago, MaybeRegret said:

If you're lvl 400-425 - you're high level.

I know but here's the thing, prior the level 400 it takes a while but you could visibly see you're catching up to higher levels since for every level of theirs you might get maybe 1.5 levels or more depending on your level. Post 400, you go up one level, they go up one level. Enough time, they go up one extra level on top of yours. That is if they are decent pvpers who win all their league fights.

3 hours ago, MaybeRegret said:

You can always try to go to 2-4 place. 

Like I said, if you have let's say four 430+ dedicated pvpers (people who generally place in the top 4) vs your lvl 400ish, it's hard to displace them out of the top 4 especially if they are KH. You're pretty much delegated 5th and below unless you get lucky with a league with less than 4 of em. They'll also be enjoying their advantage for months to come since there is no way for newcomers to catch up. They're just competing between themselves for the top places with the newcomers acting as fodder for points. 

3 hours ago, MaybeRegret said:

Otherwise, wait for the rework of the league, they are working on it.

Well if they are doing it as speedily as they are doing guild improvements, well I'd say it'll be months in the future. How hard would it be to put an extra xp boost tier to the existing system?

[MaybeRegret]

4 hours ago, Lhans said:

That is if they are decent pvpers who win all their league fights.

If you're decent player, you should be able to win almost all of your fights. It's still not enough to catch up, but they shouldn't level up faster than you. 

4 hours ago, Lhans said:

Like I said

Yeah, I know, I'm in the same position. But:
1. It's still possible. 
2. 5-15th - are good places. 
3. There is a group of players who are stuck at 16-30 d2 and they can't do anything about it. And that you ask will put them in an even worse position.

4 hours ago, Lhans said:

well I'd say it'll be months in the future

Probably. 

[GeorgeMTO]

4 hours ago, Lhans said:

How hard would it be to put an extra xp boost tier to the existing system?

I'm unsurprised you don't understand the difficulty when as shal pointed out, you don't understand the current system. There is no boost system, they simply recalculated the exp generating formulas such that the base amounts are higher and the level scaling is a smaller proportion of the exp generated.

[Lhans]

7 minutes ago, MaybeRegret said:

If you're decent player, you should be able to win almost all of your fights. It's still not enough to catch up, but they shouldn't level up faster than you. 

I pretty much lose only to these perpetually buffed guys, which could be 1-4 guys, 3-12 fights with minimal xp per loss. Versus guys who wins 100% of their fights (even against buffed high level ones), you really don't think they would level faster than me? The only difference with those guys is the amount of points they get per fight.

13 minutes ago, MaybeRegret said:

Yeah, I know, I'm in the same position. But:
1. It's still possible. 
2. 5-15th - are good places. 
3. There is a group of players who are stuck at 16-30 d2 and they can't do anything about it. And that you ask will put them in an even worse position.

1. Like I said, it's hard, I didn't say impossible.

2. After being in that reward tier ever since I got to D3, it gets stale. It's good but too much of something ... Heh, course I'm not gonna rank lower just for a change =P. Only happened once, I forgot it was the last day and I forgot to use my league points.

3. Who's making em stay there eh? I got a lower level guildie who went into D3. Frankly, he leveling up quick since he's fighting all these higher level guys. He would someday out level those guys content in remaining in D2 - some he probably passed already.

[Lhans]

24 minutes ago, GeorgeMTO said:

I'm unsurprised you don't understand the difficulty when as shal pointed out, you don't understand the current system. There is no boost system, they simply recalculated the exp generating formulas such that the base amounts are higher and the level scaling is a smaller proportion of the exp generated.

And they can do that for levels 400-425! =D

[GeorgeMTO]

2 minutes ago, Lhans said:

And they can do that for levels 400-425! =D

They did that for ALL levels already.

[Lhans]

1 minute ago, GeorgeMTO said:

They did that for ALL levels already.

Hm. It needs to be changed then.

[jelom]

Some points to note:

- Devs are using a single formula to calculate XP for all levels. What you are asking for would need to change that, using different formulas depending on levels. Complexity is prone to bugs.

- The XP difference of losing 10-15 battles in a D3 league vs winning all of them is about 2000-3000 XP per week, that is approximately 1 level per year if you are over level 400. With the actual formula for calculating XP, you will still reduce the gap with someone 20-40 levels higher than yours.

- not all the top level players are always boosted (well, some of them are) so if you are patient you can attack them and get more wins.

[Kenrae]

What I guess they could do is increase the ammount of XP needed to level up from level 469 onward, that's much easier and less bug prone, and would eventually help since the higher you level the slower you go up (which is already true, I'm talking about making it higher). I've said level 469 because 468 is the current maximum, doing it below that would have the opposite effect.
Or just wait for people to start hitting the level cap of 500 in a couple of years .

[Lhans]

Well started looking for the xp system and finally found this old post, as per patchnotes 11/12/19:

This Wednesday there will be a new balancе of the XP gained by players :

• From level 20 to 49, the player will get approximately 100% more XP than before
• From level 50 to 99, the player will get approximately 80% more XP than before
• From level 100 to 149, the player will get approximately 60% more XP than before
• From level 150 to 199, the player will get approximately 40% more XP than before
• From level 200 to 299, the player will get approximately 30% more XP than before
• From level 300 to 399, the player will get approximately 10% more XP than before
• From level 400 to 499, the player will get approximately the same XP as before
• Level 500 player will get approximately 7.5% less XP than before

This is what I meant when I said xp boost. Anyways my point about catching up post 400 still remains valid.  As I've said it in my last sentence in my first post, I'm open to any other way to alleviate the problem if changing the formula is too hard.

45 minutes ago, jelom said:

- The XP difference of losing 10-15 battles in a D3 league vs winning all of them is about 2000-3000 XP per week, that is approximately 1 level per year if you are over level 400. With the actual formula for calculating XP, you will still reduce the gap with someone 20-40 levels higher than yours.

At over level 400, that gap reducing takes forever. By the time I close the gap to 10 levels with the highest levels it would probably be a few years down the road at this rate. After charging through the levels due to the xp boost, hitting 400+ sucks.

45 minutes ago, jelom said:

- not all the top level players are always boosted (well, some of them are) so if you are patient you can attack them and get more wins.

I already do, which is how I remain in the 5th-15th tier all the time and like I said in the prior post its only the perpetually buffed high level guys who I usually lose to. Guys who probably rebuffs within 5 minutes or buffs when I'm unlucky enough to be sleeping probably.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Lhans

[_shal_]

10 hours ago, Lhans said:

Well started looking for the xp system and finally found this old post, as per patchnotes 11/12/19:

This Wednesday there will be a new balancе of the XP gained by players :

• From level 20 to 49, the player will get approximately 100% more XP than before
• From level 50 to 99, the player will get approximately 80% more XP than before
• From level 100 to 149, the player will get approximately 60% more XP than before
• From level 150 to 199, the player will get approximately 40% more XP than before
• From level 200 to 299, the player will get approximately 30% more XP than before
• From level 300 to 399, the player will get approximately 10% more XP than before
• From level 400 to 499, the player will get approximately the same XP as before
• Level 500 player will get approximately 7.5% less XP than before

This is what I meant when I said xp boost. Anyways my point about catching up post 400 still remains valid.

Nothing in there had anything to do with "catching up". If you used to get 100 XP for something that a higher level player got 200 for, and now you get 150 and he still gets 200, you're not catching up, at least not in XP.

Any reduction in level difference that you've observed in the past was entirely down to the - completely unrelated - formula that Kinkoid has been using for the levelling system ever since they extended the level cap from 40 to 400. And yeah, it takes a long time to reduce relatively small level differences any further if both players are equally active in the game, and it's impossible to close the gap completely. It has always been like that, both before and after that patch. And it's not limited to players above level 400.

Edited July 2, 2020 by _shal_

[Lhans]

6 hours ago, _shal_ said:

And yeah, it takes a long time to reduce relatively small level differences any further if both players are equally active in the game, and it's impossible to close the gap completely. It has always been like that, both before and after that patch. And it's not limited to players above level 400.

Heh. See you even admit its impossible to close the gap. I'm not content with that. Was it wrong for me to suggest stuff to give latecomers a chance to catch up in levels? The one I suggested might not be feasible but this thread was to make the developers think of ways to improve the game.

Where can you get xp? Daily missions - xp scales up to level so latecomers and high levels pretty much progress the same. Adventure - same thing. Refills might provide a limited short term boost to xp gain but once you reach the end, you can only convert extra energy to tickets which doesn't provide xp, minor xp loss to high levels. League - latecomers lose to any sufficiently high enough player, loss of potential xp per week. High level players, all wins, with no loss of xp, they can progress faster. Tower of Fame. As money and xp tend to scale up in level, high levels generally have the advantage though not in all areas. So basically the strong gets stronger. Latecomers just have to suck it up.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Lhans

[Kenrae]

hace 8 horas, Lhans dijo:

Heh. See you even admit its impossible to close the gap. I'm not content with that. Was it wrong for me to suggest stuff to give latecomers a chance to catch up in levels? The one I suggested might not be feasible but this thread was to make the developers think of ways to improve the game.

Of course it's impossible to close the gap, like in any game with levels. The only way to make that possible is having a level cap. The problem here is that the level cap is 500, which is huge.

[Lhans]

1 hour ago, Kenrae said:

Of course it's impossible to close the gap, like in any game with levels. The only way to make that possible is having a level cap. The problem here is that the level cap is 500, which is huge.

Yeah that's the thing, as a semihardcore guy, I can't even catch up to a high level casual guy who just does the daily xp stuff - missions, adventures, use up league points, do enough arena to get the xp tier. Before I could at least rely on the arena to get some extra xp, I'm not on it 24/7 nor do I use refreshes but it was still a decent chunk of xp per day which allows me to close the gap with the casuals. A lower level cap would had been nice, but that is simply too late to apply right now. My solution also wasn't feasible but I have hope with enough people brainstorming, someone might get a brilliant solution to solve the problem.

Brainstorming crazy ideas like 1 xp per girl click whenever you get their income or something similar. Yeah, yeah I know that will never happen. Problems and all. But it might spark something more sensible.

[Real Vincent]

I'm level 412. i have no issues gaining further levels, still happens every 5 days or so.
yes, people of like level 480 in leagues are unbeatable for me, but 2/3 of people in dicator III i can beat when i catch them when their boost is over.
so i see no need for any XP boost on my level.
if your issues are really that bad, then you are doing something wrong.
but remember, you always can deliberately not fight arena for one week and drop to another league and then go kick some ass there for leveling.

[_shal_]

1 hour ago, Real Vincent said:

I'm level 412. i have no issues gaining further levels, still happens every 5 days or so.
yes, people of like level 480 in leagues are unbeatable for me, but 2/3 of people in dicator III i can beat when i catch them when their boost is over.
so i see no need for any XP boost on my level.
if your issues are really that bad, then you are doing something wrong.
but remember, you always can deliberately not fight arena for one week and drop to another league and then go kick some ass there for leveling.

No offense intended, but I see your best ever D3 result is a 29th place. The issue under discussion here is one faced by players who have the personal skills to potentially win those leagues and are prevented from it solely because it's impossible for them to (meaningfully) reduce the level/strength gap to older, less skilled players.

Edited August 1, 2020 by _shal_

[Real Vincent]

On 8/2/2020 at 1:29 AM, _shal_ said:

No offense intended, but I see your best ever D3 result is a 29th place. The issue under discussion here is one faced by players who have the personal skills to potentially win those leagues and are prevented from it solely because it's impossible for them to (meaningfully) reduce the level/strength gap to older, less skilled players.

personal skills? more like, being unemployed and therefore able to play every 7 hours instead of only twice a day on workdays.
i frequently ended up in the top 10 last time i was unemployed.

[DvDivXXX]

No necromancy, please, especially for something as trivial and petty as a 45-day late "come-back" at a comment you disliked.