New battle mechanics strategies

[DHarry]

I'm happy with the change though they could have waited a day. 😆

Now I'm getting all 7s and 8s for certain 10s I saved. 😟

Ah well. Last time I profited. Now I'll take it as a man. 

 

[La Kajira]

46 minutes ago, Тёмный Властелин said:

To be honest, I liked the previous system with 15 and 25 points only. That way I could get more XP by scoring fifteens (in comparison with the old system, where I got 16s, 17s and 18s mostly) in a 16-30 league spot. In the past, due to your opponent's crit chance restricted to 1, you could equip all monostats and try to score as little as you can with tougher opponents and get more XP (script got you covered). Now, if you will do so, you will surely get a loss, cause you opponents can crit multiple times so you need to win with a margin to not get a loss => getting more points overall for your wins (less XP).

Considering that a lot more people rot in 16-30 spot in most of the leagues (don't want to promote, restrict themselves from doing battles, want to score as little as possible and do as much battles as possible), than those, who compete in D3 and don't stop themselves from doing all their battles, I think that this change is for the worse for the overall playerbase of the game.

Ummm...what? That's some incredibly convoluted wording.
<insert Godzilla stroke meme here>

But I think I know what point you are trying to make. Correct me if I'm wrong, please. Are you saying that with the previous system it was possible to get more wins without getting to top 15 and therefore getting promoted to a higher league?
If that is the case, I'll have to disagree. With the current scoring, being able to win with the minimum amount of points per win will allow you to stay behind more people who got the same amount of wins as you do if you can optimize around it better than them.
And even if what you said were correct, it would absolutely not be "worse for the overall playerbase of the game". It would be better for those players who are cheesing the system and worse for those who are actually trying to compete...which is the point of the whole league thing.
Also...if it is XP you want, holding back is not the way to go. The higher league you can get to, the more XP you can get per fight on average. If you already have to hold back a lot and miss several fights just to keep yourself from advancing, chances are you'd get more XP in the higher league.

[MrXY]

I'm in the same situation as Тёмный Властелин described. With my current level (lvl 388) I'm sure that I'm not competitive in D3 (but I never give it a try). So I would lose XP and kobans if I promote (my estimation). Therefore my current goal every week is to score a 15-30th place in D2. For my situation the change with the points was good (only 15/25). It looks like I have a season with (nearly) no missed fights and also won (every) fight thanks to the easy 15pt system (there were some unpredictable defeats because of crits).

With the old point system (and now the current point system again) this was never possible. I have to skip a lot of fights or lose on purpose to not promote. It is much harder to score 15 points now. Often it is 17-18. On the other hand it was also easier to get more points and thus was easier if I wanted a competition with the top players (even of they have a much higher level). This is also not possible anymore.

Of course this is my personal situation and this can change. In addition it was only a short period with the 15/25 point system, so my observation could have changed in a month. I totally can understand that competitive players in D3 preferring a more wider point distribution because small things leads to more differences.

Edited August 11, 2021 by MrXY

[Kenrae]

The problem with what you're saying is not the point distribution system but the fact that you get more kobans by sitting idle in D2 15-30 than trying to do as best as you can in D3 - so, the rewards in the league. It has been brought up many times by different people and I'm sure we all agree on that.

[DvDivXXX]

What Ken said, but also by doing this, you're missing out on a lot of XP and slowing down the rate at which you have even a slim chance at reducing the gap between you and those who populate D3. It's a short-term gain but ultimately a losing strategy if you ever want to be competitive beyond that comfort zone.

In any case, this has nothing to do with this topic. Old or new battle mechanics, if you're in a stagnation strategy, you're in a stagnation strategy. That's on you, not the system.

Back on topic please. Thanks

[Slynia]

They've added it in the market in case any of you've missed it:

     <-non mainstat | mainstat->

So this indeed proves that ginseng is weaker than before, still, they're still better than overkilling an opponent with another cordyceps. Although, I would still go for a chlorella unless I need that little extra dmg from ginseng.

[Observer_X]

@Kenrae, I address you as the thread creator. If you don't mind, I would like to make a request dicktated by my lack of time and disposition to follow the content, in particular the long walls of text i saw above (tried to follow some at the start, but got lost). 

What I wish to ask is, given that I suppose that being the thread creator you followed it much more than I could ever do, if in the content posted should ever emerge some kind of nearly objective data, could you please edit the first post to report that? When you have the time, obviously.

[Slynia]

So, I did this just completely for fun as I am already done with my league fights anyway.

I'm running 4x Legendary Chlorella boosters, 5x endurance equipment and 1 mono equipment. Unfortunately I'm not able to get that last endurance equipment it seems, it just won't drop. Every endurance equipment increases my ego with just over 30k, so I would be able to reach above 900k EGO. Now that's a sight to behold.

Reason as to why I'm posting this here is because maybe, just maybe endurance equipment (or combined with Chlorella) could be somewhat ok now? I sold them all on sight before but it might be worth in some situations to have them on hand now. The endurance we get from normal equipment and market stats has been reduced significantly meaning that endurance is more valuable now than before B.D.S.M. Only our mainstat gives endurance now which in turn have been reduced to 4 from 5. 

I dunno yet I haven't actually tried them in action yet so, just a random evening experiment I thought was interesting enough to share with the class ^^

[DHarry]

Try it in seasons. 😬

I like the idea. I once equipped myself with harmony monos just for fun and to see if there was some kind of cheeky advantage to having full 'luck' equipment. Like a secret set bonus or something, haha. 

Of course there wasn't and my harmony ended up lower than with regular stuff. Not to mention the other stats. Still, twas fun for a moment. 😅

[JustVisiting]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:24 AM, DvDivXXX said:

If you still think this new system is an improvement, then let's agree to disagree

Hey @DvDivXXX,

I'm curious as to whether your fantastic result in D3 this week - DvDivXXX's first Top 4 Finish! - has changed your opinion on the new league structure any? Do you feel that this result was simply a result of their being greater RNG variance introduced, or did you find more opportunities against poorly chosen teams or unboosted players? Could you field a stronger team than average within your league grouping?

Huge congratulations! That's a very impressive result given the level disadvantage you face

[JustVisiting]

Another thought on the new battle system - just how random are the Blessings? I'm not suggesting that they are not using the RNG when selecting (I thnk they are, but whether consciously or unconsciously, when selecting attributes for the girls historically certain classes of girls seem to have been favoured for certain attributes.

Take the Blessings that will come into play in a few hours time on the Nutaku server:



 

The Blessings are Nose Dive and Zodiac Libra.

The only unblessed girls are the Mythics, so we can ignore them. Out of the top 25 (17 discounting the unblessed Mythics), 15 out of 17 girls are of the Charm class. Of those 15 girls, all 15 have the Nose Dive position and 5 are also Libra (meaning that none are Libra alone). Of the 2 who are not Charm, both are Libra, not Nose Dive. To me it seems unlikely that, with such a high grouping in the Blessed girls of Charm/Nose Dive, that this occurred randomly. It seems like the developers historically favoured the Nose Dive position for Charm girls. That would naturally favour players that previously were Charm players. At least at lower levels where they still felt it important to pick-up every Charm 5 star Legendary (i.e. before Mythics started to dominate the leagues).

I wonder what other class related biases exist within the dataset?

[Methos2]

14 minutes ago, JustVisiting said:

I wonder what other class related biases exist within the dataset?

Each class has 4 poses. Nose dive is one of the 4 poses in Charm class. So this is normal. Unlike the case with mythic girls, players don't just collect girls of their classes. It would not be advantageous to do so, especially with fighting champions.

[JustVisiting]

2 hours ago, Methos2 said:

Each class has 4 poses. Nose dive is one of the 4 poses in Charm class. So this is normal. Unlike the case with mythic girls, players don't just collect girls of their classes. It would not be advantageous to do so, especially with fighting champions.

Good point, well made. But it still means that any time a position comes up as a Blessing, it is going to favour historic class players for that position.

I say this based on my own playing style. I was KH. I prioritised collecting the best 5 star Legendary KH girls. Each time there was a small improvement in any of the 3 attributes I would pick that up to allow me to switch in and out the team to be strongest against the class I was facing. So I have a very healthy stock of KH 5 star Legendaries. I cannot say the same for the other classes. I assume other players have done similar for their own classes.

You're absolutely right that it wouldn't make sense to collect only your own class of girl most of the time - there is no benefit - but for the strongest non-Mythic girls, the 5 star Legendaries, and players who were not at the stage of having 3+ Mythics the same selection bias will still apply (if they were trying to optimise).

If I had been a Charm player I likely would have most of the 4 of the top 7 naturally.

So the core point is that for the lower leagues, I would still suspect that players will be able to form stronger teams when one of their historic class positions is Blessed. This becomes less relevant as time passes as the incentive to focus on collecting 5 star Legendaries of your own class is now gone.

Edited August 23, 2021 by JustVisiting

[Methos2]

15 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

it is going to favour historic class players for that position.

Yes, some weeks would be better for charm class, and other weeks wouldn't. Since it is random, it will even out.

15 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

So the core point is that for the lower leagues, I would still suspect that players will be able to form stronger teams when one of their historic class positions is Blessed.

The main source of 5-star legendary girls for lower league players is LC. LD is too expensive without the higher league income. I don't expect that most players would give up on LC when the girls are not of their classes. I didn't. It would be true that they wouldn't upgrade them when the girls are not of the player class. With the new system, we have to upgrade the battle team each week anyway.

15 hours ago, JustVisiting said:

This becomes less relevant as time passes as the incentive to focus on collecting 5 star Legendaries of your own class is now gone.

Exactly.