Lavahit Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 This is coming from a lvl 258 player. Now i have been managing (emphasis on that) playing vs champions and have to say the difference between the first ones and the last 2 champions is pretty massive, but managable with enough tickets. But after the introduction of the 0 defense and various position in every last battle with a champion is really stupid if you ask me. The second boss which would require 15 tickets to beat, now drained me of all 32 tickets of mine and still didn't defeated him. I ask kindly for you to reconsider about this and change if back to where it was before, or at least bring back our defense instead of 0, cause as of now i don't even last long enough to hit the champions for 300k impression and also they might have positions that hit me harder back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zteev Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 There's a lot of discussion out in the general discussion area. I doubt the 12 positions thing changes, as it's a balancing effect for difficulty. The 0 defense is a big problem. The all 12 varied positions is generally a potentially big benefit on the champions with girls who are the same class, and a potentially small hindrance on those with girls that don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniele Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 On 10/30/2019 at 12:25 PM, Lavahit said: the introduction of the 0 defense The 0 defense is a bug... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeMTO Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 38 minutes ago, Daniele said: The 0 defense is a bug... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniele Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Thanks for letting me know, i'll add it to list of reasons to quit with this crappy game 😁 Seriously, these devs just don't know what they're doing, they add nonsense things at random without any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer_X Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said: I didn't knew too. If things are like this, I fully agree with @Lavahit regarding this point. The larger poses pool may be another matter, but having zero defense in every fifth stage of each Champion is absolutely unfair and unbalanced, especially considering that many players can't or won't use kobans while battling Champions, either for attacking instead of a ticket but especially for shorten the intervals between one ticket and the next. In consideration that the future x10 option will almost certainly cost kobans (that the same aforementioned people won't spend), in the future beating stage 5 (especially of Visor and Alban) will literally come to need over a hundred of tickets, and thus well over a day per each phase (making even more tickets needed due to the champion impression lost). All this, summed to the fact that the devs should have been clear since the patch notes about the fact that the zero defence was not a bug but a precise choice, looks like a double shoot in the foot for the devs. Lately came often to my mind the thought that it seems the devs don't know any more what to invent to have free players ditch the game without officially declaring HH a fully pay-to-play game. It seems that they don't realize that their solutions to that problem include a heavy risk to have many other players (including paying players) to quit the game as well, players that won't for sure speak well of the game thereafter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamio Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 So, with zero defence not being a bug, Charm crit is effectively useless (well it was useless before as well lol, but now even more...)? Now if RNG gives you Charm poses on the last stage, good luck fighting Alban with zero defence.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 12 minutes ago, Zamio said: good luck fighting Alban with zero defence.... I did it yesterday at level 3 and passed it without problems, it just needed more tickets, and you get 5-10 everyday, so only means more days to amass enough of them. Getting champion girls are a long term task, so you only have to be patient, but I recognize that it is a hard task for low and medium level players, when the champion finish you in 5 or 6 blows. 10 hours ago, Observer_X said: I didn't knew too. If things are like this, I fully agree with @Lavahit regarding this point. The larger poses pool may be another matter, but having zero defense in every fifth stage of each Champion is absolutely unfair and unbalanced, especially considering that many players can't or won't use kobans while battling Champions, either for attacking instead of a ticket but especially for shorten the intervals between one ticket and the next. In consideration that the future x10 option will almost certainly cost kobans (that the same aforementioned people won't spend), in the future beating stage 5 (especially of Visor and Alban) will literally come to need over a hundred of tickets, and thus well over a day per each phase (making even more tickets needed due to the champion impression lost). All this, summed to the fact that the devs should have been clear since the patch notes about the fact that the zero defence was not a bug but a precise choice, looks like a double shoot in the foot for the devs. Lately came often to my mind the thought that it seems the devs don't know any more what to invent to have free players ditch the game without officially declaring HH a fully pay-to-play game. It seems that they don't realize that their solutions to that problem include a heavy risk to have many other players (including paying players) to quit the game as well, players that won't for sure speak well of the game thereafter. About your comment about kobans and free players, It is perfectly possible to perform well being a free player. I am an example of that. It is you who has decided to not use a single koban of the free amount the game gives to the players. i don't say that you have to spend real money to buy kobans, but you can use inteligently the free kobans to get girls (the main objective of the game). In the other side I am with you in that the zero defense "feature" in the last stage of the champions is a pain and I don't like it, but it only means that you need more tickets and stronger girls, that is, you need to uplevel yourself and the girls to have more attack, so not a good task for lower level players. If you think about the champions, they are the bosses of the game, so it has to be difficult to beat them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamio Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 28 minutes ago, jelom said: I did it yesterday at level 3 and passed it without problems, it just needed more tickets, and you get 5-10 everyday, so only means more days to amass enough of them. Getting champion girls are a long term task, so you only have to be patient, but I recognize that it is a hard task for low and medium level players, when the champion finish you in 5 or 6 blows. thank you. I've only started with him, currently level 0-2, yet to see how I fare against him with zero defence. He already hits very hard, and being only lvl 302, I barely last a single rotation. Can't imagine if I have to go through 7-5 to get the girl. But am just gonna take my time, like you said it's a long-term feature, and being HC I concentrated on getting Murane first - the others will just be for collection's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 1039 Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 7 hours ago, jelom said: I did it yesterday at level 3 and passed it without problems, it just needed more tickets... Definitely easier to say for an ~400 level player. You're playing a way different game than most of the players, who can do nothing but to feel extremely frustrated by all of this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted November 1, 2019 Share Posted November 1, 2019 Yes I know I am a high level player and it is a bit easier for me, but I also need 15 or more tickets to pass a stage with Alban, and I am only at level 4. But don't worry, it is a matter ot time (and patience) and you will also be at level 400. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer_X Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 19 hours ago, jelom said: I did it yesterday at level 3 and passed it without problems, it just needed more tickets, and you get 5-10 everyday, so only means more days to amass enough of them. Getting champion girls are a long term task, so you only have to be patient, but I recognize that it is a hard task for low and medium level players, when the champion finish you in 5 or 6 blows. About your comment about kobans and free players, It is perfectly possible to perform well being a free player. I am an example of that. It is you who has decided to not use a single koban of the free amount the game gives to the players. i don't say that you have to spend real money to buy kobans, but you can use inteligently the free kobans to get girls (the main objective of the game). In the other side I am with you in that the zero defense "feature" in the last stage of the champions is a pain and I don't like it, but it only means that you need more tickets and stronger girls, that is, you need to uplevel yourself and the girls to have more attack, so not a good task for lower level players. If you think about the champions, they are the bosses of the game, so it has to be difficult to beat them. Aside from the fact that my way of playing the game is very different from the average player, I would not define using the kobans to skip the 15 minutes between tries, or to battle a champion in stead of a ticket, an intelligent use for the game free kobans. As usual, anyways, this is only my opinion. For sure, should one day I have the time and mental resources to elaborate a strategy that implies the use of free kobans, knowing myself it is quite unlikely that the aforementioned strategy will include the use of kobans in battling the champions (obviously, given the game mechanics stay as they are now) 10 hours ago, jelom said: Yes I know I am a high level player and it is a bit easier for me, but I also need 15 or more tickets to pass a stage with Alban, and I am only at level 4. But don't worry, it is a matter ot time (and patience) and you will also be at level 400. I am at level 373, and, in the last battle with Alban before the last champion patch introduction (which I did at level 368), I needed more or less 27 tickets to clear phase 4 of the first stage. Given that level increases by themselves don't give super high stat increases, although I miss quite some buyable stat points, I have to assume you were quite lucky with your equipment, if you with only 27 levels more than me really need only 15 tickets to clear a stage so high with Alban at zero defense. I intend to battle Alban when I attain my next level, and my rough calculation told me that with zero defense I probably will need 50+ tickets to clear his first stage 5 (given I am not unlucky with the girls redrafting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 1039 Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) So basically, 0 defense makes the fights significantly much more difficult, but wait, the possibility to draw from 12 different poses will make drawing the Champion's favorite pose quite unlikely... Well no, bad news on that front too. Has anyone collected stats on this? Others have posted similar experiences. Doesn't seem exactly random. It would appear that the changes were entirely negative. Edited November 2, 2019 by John 1039 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jelom Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 4 hours ago, Observer_X said: I would not define using the kobans to skip the 15 minutes between tries, or to battle a champion in stead of a ticket, an intelligent use for the game free kobans. When I say inteligently I mean using koban to refill combativity to get the last shards for a girl in an event, not to skip waiting time with champions (although is one of the less expensive uses) and of course never to replace a ticket. 5 hours ago, Observer_X said: Given that level increases by themselves don't give super high stat increases, although I miss quite some buyable stat points, I have to assume you were quite lucky with your equipment, if you with only 27 levels more than me really need only 15 tickets to clear a stage so high with Alban at zero defense. I said 15 or more tickets to clear a stage, not the last stage (with zero defense) that took me about 20 tickets. You would be surprised how big difference is maxing your market stats, getting the girls used battling a champion upleveled, added to a good equipment and boosters ... and a bit of luck in the champion poses selection . Anyway, my main idea in this conversation is: you will defeat champions for sure sooner or later, and only need patience, because time will give you more tickets, and will allow you to improve your stats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer_X Posted November 2, 2019 Share Posted November 2, 2019 8 hours ago, jelom said: When I say inteligently I mean using koban to refill combativity to get the last shards for a girl in an event, not to skip waiting time with champions (although is one of the less expensive uses) and of course never to replace a ticket. I said 15 or more tickets to clear a stage, not the last stage (with zero defense) that took me about 20 tickets. You would be surprised how big difference is maxing your market stats, getting the girls used battling a champion upleveled, added to a good equipment and boosters ... and a bit of luck in the champion poses selection . Anyway, my main idea in this conversation is: you will defeat champions for sure sooner or later, and only need patience, because time will give you more tickets, and will allow you to improve your stats. I understood better your point now, but there is still one thing I don't entirely agree: the market bought points may be useful overall, but up to now I didn't see great differences even buying a huge slice at one time: I'm talking about when I waited from level 300 to level 350 and then bought more than 750 points for each stat, the only positive effect was to put me high enough to jump from the high ranks of Sexpert III to the low ranks of Dicktator II in the leagues (not exactly a welcome change, as I started to bounce between Dicktator I and II and I came to hate to continually bounce between one league level and the other, I find it annoying). Anyways, you are absolutely right about the fact that in time all objectives will be reached, my problem is that the game mechanics and the RNG, as they are structured, makes the time needed to obtain the same objective having huge differences even between players with not so dissimilar stats (apart player behaviour). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackMacKenzie Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 On 11/1/2019 at 3:56 AM, Zamio said: So, with zero defence not being a bug, Charm crit is effectively useless (well it was useless before as well lol, but now even more...)? Now if RNG gives you Charm poses on the last stage, good luck fighting Alban with zero defence.... This is what proves that the so-called feature is a bug. No sane person would design a feature that nerfs one class so badly, and certainly not the one that has been widely acknowledged as the weakest class for more than a year BEFORE this change. Not convinced? If it was an intentional feature, then why did they briefly fix it before restoring it? To me, this is a very bad-faith call by Kinkoid. It's as though they are challenging or daring their customer base...go on, we dare you to quit! It's self-destructive behavior passed off as laziness or expediency. On 11/1/2019 at 2:03 PM, jelom said: 1. Yes I know I am a high level player and it is a bit easier for me, but I also need 15 or more tickets to pass a stage with Alban, and I am only at level 4. 2. But don't worry, it is a matter ot time (and patience) and you will also be at level 400. 1. A bit? Gross understatement. Also, lets look at this from another angle where the differences are more stark. Lets look at the weakest Champion instead of the strongest. When I fight Romero WITH DEFENSE, I need one ticket to beat him - two max if I don't bother to use boosters. WITHOUT DEFENSE, this jumps to a minimum of 5, and has been as high as 20+. I've only had to deal with this twice and the major difference was the luck of the drafts. Could things be better or worse than the two results I got? Yes. So conservatively, no defense makes it 400% - 2000% harder to win. And for context, my hero is currently level 301 and NONE of my Champions have given me ALL their rewards. In other words, none of my Champions have reached level 8, and Romero specifically is only at level 6. And my Market stats are maxed. So far, I've refused to fight a defenseless fight against any of the other Champions because the cost jump would be beyond prohibitive. Just getting through regular stages of bosses have been costing me 20+ tickets for months, and that's BEFORE these changes, which just make it harder. (There's a second reason which I will detail later.) For the sake of providing a concrete example, my career average of daily free tickets is: 2 (arena) + 10/9 (missions) + (<)3 (free daily top-up) + variable (use of combativity) + trace (use of energy) + trace (purchase of bundles) = <6.1 + negligible Why is free daily top-up less than 3? Two reasons. First, the 24h timer frequently creeps forward because of occasional balances above 10. Second, some days I get none because my balance didn't drop below 10 at all in a 24h period. Real life issues can have impact game performance and that's by design. Why 10/9 mission? Because that seems to be the randomized expectation (1.11/day). Since the introduction of the feature my total mission tickets earned / over the number of days the feature has been around hasn't differed significantly form 10/9 since the part-way through the 2nd week. (It's expected that early results would swing wildly around the theoretical mean.) What do I mean by variable? Most days it's between 0 and 1. On rare occasion it gets higher. During events there is a chance that I'll refill combativity. On those days it can be much higher. On a Wednesday, when League play resets I may get a lump sum as a reward for doing well. If I splurged and bought a bundle it likely came with free combativity which would result in some non-zero number of tickets. Every part of this, other than the base daily free combativity of 48 will vary greatly from player to player. Personally, with all of these sources considered my grand average has been a hair over 5, and that required spending > 40k kobans on combativity. As a first year player nearly every event requires some amount of kobans to earn all the girls that are available and reachable based on story level. That's likely more than most first year players spend in 4 months of play. What do I mean by trace? I mean not worth tracking. I only used energy as tickets for about 1 week between ending the Ninja Sacred Lands story-line and starting the Splatter's Archipelago chapter. I've only bought one bundle that contained tickets. For me, both sources combined haven't been an appreciable or significant source of 'tickets' when spread over the 128 days since the Champions era began. So the proposed 5-10 free tickets daily can probably be narrowed down to 4.5 - 8 for the vast majority of days, with a few days that have significantly more scattered about along the way. Why is this distinction important? Because the fact that they aren't evenly distributed affects the consistent earning of the 3 true "freebie" tickets each day. For me, this variability has limited my freebie income to less than 1.4 tickets a day. I only have Alban at level 1. Even at this level, with a bad set of drafts and a bad set of poses I could spend my full complement of daily tickets and not exceed the daily Impression Decay. (Also, let's not forget that prior to this 'feature' you couldn't get a bad set of poses against Alban!) I can only imagine how much easier it would be to fall into that trap a few levels from now. Further, the time-based limit on use of tickets makes saving up less than ideal. It's not sufficient to save up a few days' worth of tickets to make a run because it's as likely as not that whatever inroads you made on impression by pushing it one day will be erased by decay before you can get past the finish line. Instead, you have to save scores of tickets, perhaps 100 or more to reliably get the job done before you run out of tickets and time. Yes, you can make this problem shrink or go away entirely...by spending 6 kobans to eliminate the 15m loss cool-down period. I suppose that long time players and full pay-to-win players don't have to worry about this. Newer players and lower budget players do - gods help them if they are both new and have a lower budget. 2. Whoa, whoa, whoa. If Kinkoid's shown us anything it's that we can't count our chickens before they're hatched. Who is to say that the game rules will even be recognizable when random player X reaches level 400? (This is the second reason I mentioned earlier.) I know I've been screwed by rules drift more than a few times already. Based on the posting history in the forum, I'm not the only one. I look at my resources, look at the difficulty of the challenge ahead, evaluate the potential costs and rewards and plan a course of action...only to have the decision invalidated by a major rules change. Were you saving for the future? Bzzzzzzzzzz. You lose! We're changing the rules to make it harder now, and with virtually no notice, no consultation nor much fanfare! Shoulda spent those resources loser! The opposite has also been true. Any criticism or support should absolutely be limited to the here and now because we have absolutely no idea what conditions will be in a month, let alone a year or two. I'm not going to bother saying any more because I've come to think that the Devs are a lost cause. We aren't players, we aren't partners, we're payers. We're not people, we're wallets. Wallets don't have feelings, opinions, or even thoughts, they're free to be fleeced with impunity. Mine is now closed. I can't support people who have such disregard for their customers. I don't know if it's apathy or animosity, rampant pride or whatnot, but the results feel the same on the receiving end. I may take a vacation from the game. People have already done so, or left completely in protest of the mobile UI sabotage, er I mean 'upgrade'. I'm sitting on a nice nest egg of 50k kobans which will apparently go wasted because Clubs were never fully realized. Oh right. That was likely by design, too. In closing, remind me please what the test server is supposed to be for? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lavahit Posted November 4, 2019 Author Share Posted November 4, 2019 Well they propably won't care about our opinions. Also was there a test server? And what happened at the mobile version? (i thought of downloading it, but decided against it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slikmar Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 I went back to the patch notes that stated the changes and they mentioned the 12 poses and that you can now see what poses will be used. There was NOTHING about reducing the defense to 0 on 5th stage. I am only level 163 so maybe I shouldn't be doing champions yet, but I have the second girl, Lissa, and was able to get to stage 4 pretty easy on the others with boosters and a lot of tickets, which I didn't mind as one reason I go against the champions is for money. the zero defense means I don't last through 5 stages even if I use boosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeRegret Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 On 11/1/2019 at 10:56 AM, Zamio said: good luck fighting Alban with zero defence But all Alban crits is charm, so it makes him useless. I think Alban the one who lost more than players with this feature. On 11/3/2019 at 7:56 PM, ZackMacKenzie said: No sane person would design a feature that nerfs one class so badly, and certainly not the one that has been widely acknowledged as the weakest class for more than a year BEFORE this change. Your class has nothing to do with crit at champion battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_shal_ Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 29 minutes ago, MaybeRegret said: But all Alban crits is charm, so it makes him useless. I think Alban the one who lost more than players with this feature. For my next Alban battle (stage 6-5) the lack of defense will mean the difference between getting through 3 or 4 rounds per battle. The fact that I'm doing a little more damage per round because he's not got any defense either is almost irrelevant compared to that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaybeRegret Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 You're probably right. It's not completely irrelevant, for me he should have about 10k defence, but still less than one round of attack. But still Alban benefits less than other champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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