Sniping sucks.

[MisterCat]

This game is starting to go down hill as the level of sniping increases.  More and more I see last minute, even last second changes in the rankings of contests, with leagues being the worst of the lot because of the kobans involved.   Sadly, the actual results are never shown, so you can't tell who the greedy bastards are.

 

So what's the consensus? Do we decide that's just part of the game or try to come up with a fix?

[Fiel]

2 minutes ago, MisterCat said:

with leagues being the worst of the lot

There is no sniping in the League. People have the right to fight out all of their League battles, even if it is last minute and makes you upset.

[GeorgeMTO]

1 minute ago, MisterCat said:

This game is starting to go down hill as the level of sniping increases.  More and more I see last minute, even last second changes in the rankings of contests, with leagues being the worst of the lot because of the kobans involved.   Sadly, the actual results are never shown, so you can't tell who the greedy bastards are.

 

So what's the consensus? Do we decide that's just part of the game or try to come up with a fix?

It's been a part of the game since contests were added. If you've only just started noticing it, you've only just entered levels that have people who pay attention to the game.
It's not been part of leagues since the scoring change, but prior to that it was about rushing in the first minute, so same thing in principle, just minor difference in execution. With the change in the scoring, you can now finish all your fights way earlier. If someone else also finishes all their fights after you, but does better, then they DESERVE the prize and you do not. If you don't do all your fights, well that's an easily fixed problem right, just use kobans to get the extra challenges in.

Sniping contests though is unfortunately not a problem that can be fixed. If you make it so that scores can't be changed for 5 minutes prior to prizes, sniping just happens 5 minutes earlier. I suggest learning to cope with it.

[Karyia]

Yep, it's just part of the game.

I've also lost contests at the last second but that's the way it goes.

Remember, you can do the same, so it's fair to everyone.

[Chthugha]

3 hours ago, Karyia said:

Yep, it's just part of the game.

I've also lost contests at the last second but that's the way it goes.

Remember, you can do the same, so it's fair to everyone.

It would be fair if the hour the contest ends changes. Now it is definitely unfair to those who sleep during reset time.

[Karyia]

2 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

It would be fair if the hour the contest ends changes. Now it is definitely unfair to those who sleep during reset time.

Fair point. Now that you mention it, that sounds like a pretty good suggestion (different start/end dates)   

I was just stating that on another topic (I'm one of the sleeper kind). 

Fair was definitely not the right word to use there, thanks 👍

[_shal_]

6 hours ago, GeorgeMTO said:

It's been a part of the game since contests were added. If you've only just started noticing it, you've only just entered levels that have people who pay attention to the game.

He's level 356. I foresee another culture shock in about two weeks.

[MisterCat]

I disagree that it can't be fixed.  I can think of a couple of ways that would address the issue.   

[jelom]

And would you be so kind as to explain those to us?

[GeorgeMTO]

10 minutes ago, MisterCat said:

I disagree that it can't be fixed.  I can think of a couple of ways that would address the issue.   

I feel you are most likely overlooking a few potential flaws in your solutions if you think they solve the problem. As jelom requested, please explain the methods to us so we can identify those flaws for you.

[Lemus]

Actually, you can come up with a lot of things, but all these solutions will have their pros as well as cons.

For example, the first thing that comes to mind is to move the closing time of the competition to the prime time of the game. But the result will be the creation of a one-time super-peak load on the server and as a result there will be lags, crashes and the fall of the game that is much worse than sniping and will cause many times more toxicity.

Another option is not to show in the list the number of points of other players. This will not remove the sniping completely, but will make it much more risky - not seeing the guidelines will be much harder to break forward at the last moment. On the other hand, the strategy and planning element disappears when the player could save resources and choose a good time for a guaranteed victory. And the competition itself risks becoming a "battle of the whales" that can pour resources infinitely, and ordinary players there will have nothing else to do. For me, it's better to leave it as it is now.

As a compromise option, I would suggest the introduction of lottery winnings. I will explain it by an example. From first to fifth place, the total prize fund is 300. One player out of 5 is randomly selected to receive the jackpot - 200, the rest of the consolation prizes are 25. From 6th to 15th place the prize pool is 360 - two wins of 100 and 8 wins of 20. All places below will receive the usual prizes - money and combativity. Well, those with zero points will get nothing. In addition, the 3 players who win the jackpot also get a "luck debuff" in the next competition which reduces their chance of the jackpot by half which will disappear after the player has made it to the top 15, but has not won a big prize (for example, in the first five it will be 10% instead of 20%, and in the other four players, if they are without a debuff, the chances will increase to 22.5%) Will it remove the sniping? Of course it won't. Will it make the sniping less attractive? Of course it will, both economically and psychologically. Will the developers want to bother and make such a sophisticated system? I doubt it very much, especially anticipating a bunch of new players who are too lazy to read complex descriptions of the rules, but are always ready to create a forum topic - "I was cheated - I won first place but did not get the prize!!! 111"))))

[Bhob]

I've "anti-sniped" a few times.  Been in first, and played a few last second troll fights or pachinko games in order to spoil someone trying to top me.

 

[Peterminator]

I think the sniping it is a fair way, I mean, it is a way to reward to active players plus, anyone can snipe is not only for a certain group. You can play in two ways, overpaying to win or sniping, and the two are fair enough. Maybe the only thing unfair that I can grant you is the endtime cause of the many schedules around the world, in some places is very early, in others very late, maybe only in the eastern Asia or Oceania is good enough, but, meh, I think the offers for some countries, the cost and things like that are balancing the scale. So, is better that you improve your playing of the contest than complain about it

[Dr. Lust]

Sniping does favor certain time zones.  And with the global game, I guess there is no fair way to silence sniping.  Just something we have to live with. 

[Karyia]

I don't know if it's feasible but it would be nice that, at least, a few of the contests could have different start times, to "lower" the unfair part regarding the different time zones.

Namely, those that can be impacted very easily (like using a book, donating, etc.).

Those contests are definitely in favor of the people who are around the reset time/end of contest, for sure.

[Cantrix]

On 2/6/2020 at 6:14 AM, MisterCat said:

This game is starting to go down hill as the level of sniping increases.  More and more I see last minute, even last second changes in the rankings of contests, with leagues being the worst of the lot because of the kobans involved.   Sadly, the actual results are never shown, so you can't tell who the greedy bastards are.

 

So what's the consensus? Do we decide that's just part of the game or try to come up with a fix?

It's not sniping. If sb else has better stats and manages to beat you, it's a legitimate win. Many people are waiting to see if the boosters of stonger opponents would expire before beating them. Is that sniping? No.

 

[Cantrix]

Sniping contests might be easily fixed, by putting only people living in simillar time zones in a bracket. That though raises the question: how many payers from those zones are playing and would it actually amount to other issues such as only 10ppl participating in a given time zone or so.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Cantrix

[Mihai]

2 hours ago, Karyia said:

I don't know if it's feasible but it would be nice that, at least, a few of the contests could have different start times, to "lower" the unfair part regarding the different time zones.

I like this idea a lot and should apply to ToF as well. A dynamic reset time would be the fairest way to go. From the top of my head the cycle of reset times could be the current one (week 1) and add 5 AM Beijing (week 2), 5 AM Rio (week 3) and maybe 5 AM Seattle (week 4). Done and done 🙃

[Chthugha]

19 minutes ago, Mihai said:

I like this idea a lot and should apply to ToF as well. A dynamic reset time would be the fairest way to go. From the top of my head the cycle of reset times could be the current one (week 1) and add 5 AM Beijing (week 2), 5 AM Rio (week 3) and maybe 5 AM Seattle (week 4). Done and done 🙃

or just move the reset time by 6 hours...

[snowman22]

My suggestion would be to make each contest 26 hrs long. Every time zone gets treated the same.

[Dr. Lust]

No matter what time zone is used for the end of the contest, there will be sniping that occurs.    It's human nature.  To want to win and do so at any cost.   As long as the end of these contests is announced ahead of time, those that can snipe will do so.

[_shal_]

12 hours ago, Dr. Lust said:

No matter what time zone is used for the end of the contest, there will be sniping that occurs.    It's human nature.  To want to win and do so at any cost.   As long as the end of these contests is announced ahead of time, those that can snipe will do so.

IMHO, the value of sniping is that it allows winning without doing it at any cost. The player who moves last has the best possible information about what resources it takes exactly, and doesn't have to spend speculatively. (Although of course tactical overspending might still be involved to outpace other potential or actual snipers.)

This was posted on Discord earlier today:

The second-place player had spent speculatively several hours before the finish, the winner sniped. (And yes, that's 500+ million ymen in spending by each.) The same happened in my bracket, albeit with "only" around 300,000 points.

The higher one goes in level, the less likely it becomes that thumping a big contest score early discourages everybody else from trying.

Edited February 8, 2020 by _shal_

[Karyia]

20 hours ago, _shal_ said:

IMHO, the value of sniping is that it allows winning without doing it at any cost. The player who moves last has the best possible information about what resources it takes exactly, and doesn't have to spend speculatively. (Although of course tactical overspending might still be involved to outpace other potential or actual snipers.)

I couldn't agree more 👍 There can be circumstances that can justify an additional effort but other than that, this is it.

We'll see how it goes but, in principle, the new system is actually subtracting instead of adding... both in gameplay (number of contests) and in quality (management, strategy, etc).

It's about resources, timing and "sprinting" now. With an advantage to a specific time zone.

[blaa]

2 hours ago, Karyia said:

 

It's about resources, timing and "sprinting" now. With an advantage to a specific time zone.

it always was, there was almost no room for "strategy".

I really do like the chances- every day one chance for a contest is great. For instance it's way easier to mange the villian-contests - it always sucked to have one or two of them in (classic) events, especially with a 4-day duration.

[Karyia]

4 minutes ago, blaa said:

it always was, there was almost no room for "strategy".

I really do like the chances- every day one chance for a contest is great. For instance it's way easier to mange the villian-contests - it always sucked to have one or two of them in (classic) events, especially with a 4-day duration.

Well, that depends on what you consider strategy lol I consider "managing" a 3-day period like strategy. There's no such thing now.

But the real problem is that my final ranking isn't really up to me anymore 🙄