Club Champions - 2 Week Retrospective

[DvDivXXX]

45 minutes ago, Honza said:

So, which of those is incorrect?

The generic part. What you see is what you get. For the record, the message is even the same after you complete the girl and all you can hope for is that your random affection item doesn't suck. It still says "all participants will get one of these" above your affection items, even if most of your club mates see (and get) a shard drop for the girl with each a different range.

[Rylarth]

another problem with the champion is the amount of tickets at this rate most players will be out of tickets within two weeks right now you get around 10 tickets maximum a day from places of power and then you are expected to waste 50 tickets daily to even be close to defeating the champion on 400 million affection with a group of 20 players hope kinkoid considers re balancing the champion 76 million affection increase in a month is wild last champion was 328 million affection and was almost impossible without wasting 200+ tickets daily 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Rylarth

[Makinen]

Well, the current one's Tier 0 and he's still got an HP bar of 175 mil, which i'm pretty sure the Club i'm in is never going to touch, especially not in 24 hours.

One ticket got me 75k damage. Our highest level player is below 300. No one is touching this thing with a ten-foot pole.

[Alkazord]

Yup, our club champion also has 400 mln hp and on a normal day we get him to 5 then fail. It's a waste of resources at this point and we're not evne starting it.

[Shorty-er]

After our club beat the champion a couple of times at first, interest spiraled down rather quickly. I would assume because of the low pay-out, with people getting 2 or 3 shards out of 1-60 etc. We then decided to do him only once a week. Even that doesn't seem to work. Today, with a relevant contest, we're still only up to 33%.

For now, the champion is only a way to get another 900 contest points for those with the tickets to burn, on days with the right contest. On every other day, this "feature" might as well not exist.

I'm not sure it's fixable. Even with a better return on investment, there'll still be the problem that lower level players (who I assume won't have the girls yet after a while) can't defeat the champ on their own. If higher level players then get involved to help their team-mates they will lower the odds for shards for the lower level players they're trying to help. Catch-22 built right into the whole mess. Only way I see to fix that would be to reward players for results relative to their own level.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Shorty-er

[Valgo]

New club or club that lack of heavy hitter are mostly the one being affected. The impression should have never been reset upon failure, it just way too demanding for most player. 

[Pelinor]

As a conceptual idea the Club Champion idea has merit.  I would have called him a Visiting Duelist (keep your thoughts pure) since the dude is not the club's champion and he goes away, to be replaced by another Champion at the end of each month (+/- the 24 hour cooldown period and koban spending).  Clubs whose average membership has difficulty playiing more than three regular Champions, or have no member able to take on Visor or Alban without using 50+ HH tickets, probably won't be able to defeat the club champion. This isn't a bad thing, the club simply hasn't grown enough to be competitive against this game feature.

[Shorty-er]

10 hours ago, Pelinor said:

This isn't a bad thing, the club simply hasn't grown enough to be competitive against this game feature.

Sorry, no. My club easily has the heavy hitters, even I make the cut according to your definition (not according to me though ). We *can* defeat the champion, we *did* defeat him a number a times direct after release. Thing is we simply lack the interest to do so any more or consistently. And that is strictly a effort/reward issue.

It is not our club, it is this feature that is not competitive against all the other options in the game.

I agree with you the idea has merit, just not this particular execution of the idea 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Shorty-er

[Chthugha]

4 hours ago, Shorty-er said:

Sorry, no. My club easily has the heavy hitters, even I make the cut according to your definition (not according to me though ). We *can* defeat the champion, we *did* defeat him a number a times direct after release. Thing is we simply lack the interest to do so any more or consistently. And that is strictly a effort/reward issue.

It is not our club, it is this feature that is not competitive against all the other options in the game.

I agree with you the idea has merit, just not this particular execution of the idea 

So what you say is that your club leader doesn't enforce a rule of helping the others out, even if the reward is lackluster? Got it. I would kick players not helping the rest that aren't good enough to do it themselves. This is a club effort thing, so there is no place for antisocial behaviour like " screw the rest, I'll try to get her as fast as possible and then do nothing."

[Pelinor]

@Shorty-er, my definition on club strength was to show that just being in a club doesn't mean the club is ready to take on the visiting champion. My club, and yours from the sound of it, is ready (at least up to a two position match challenge). The trouble you describe is more complicated but can be fixed with

(a) active club membership participation in a club activity

(b) A floating floor on the shard range

(c) a pachinko style award payout based on individual effort vs membership participation.

Unfortunately, the only one of these we can control is the first of the three. It is up to KK to fix or add the other two or some variation of them to complete the feature.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Pelinor
Forgot the most important thing (a) sheesh

[Pelinor]

9 minutes ago, Chthugha said:

This is a club effort thing, so there is no place for antisocial behaviour like " screw the rest, I'll try to get her as fast as possible and then do nothing."

Agree 100%, and the feature rewards participation by increasing the shard range as the participation rate rises. If only the "heavy hitters" play then it actually costs more (in tickets) to get the girl because they have to battle the champion more often to achieve the desired results! Plus, they deny the shard range needed for some of the other club members to get the girl when they don't play.

[Shorty-er]

6 hours ago, Chthugha said:

So what you say is that your club leader doesn't enforce a rule of helping the others out, even if the reward is lackluster? Got it. I would kick players not helping the rest that aren't good enough to do it themselves. This is a club effort thing, so there is no place for antisocial behaviour like " screw the rest, I'll try to get her as fast as possible and then do nothing."

I'm confused. I have absolutely no idea how you went from what I said to your reaction. If you want to give your opinion on this game feature, do so. If you want to react to what I say, cool. But don't put words in my mouth please. We clearly don't understand each other good enough for you to do that what any accuracy or meaning. 

I haven't taken a poll, but I feel like almost none of the members in the club are interested. And I say that as one of those who is not good enough to do it myself.

[Bertolski]

I see my post here has been deleted without even been informed about it. So basically critical posts are not allowed on this forum, got it.

[DvDivXXX]

1 hour ago, Bertolski said:

I see my post here has been deleted without even been informed about it. So basically critical posts are not allowed on this forum, got it.

Check your profile to read the warning sent to you upon removing your post. That's how it works.

Also stop making stupid assumptions and dumb accusations here.

[GeorgeMTO]

Because it amuses me, I'll point out the irony of them not reading a warning I gave them, for having not read any of the other posts about the feature before posting complete and utter nonsense
(it even clarified that the feedback was still visible to Kinkoid, was just trying to save them from public ridicule)

[Bertolski]

You might call your baseless assumption of your warning informative : ' it's obvious that you do not understand the feature, nor have you read anything that anyone else has explained', but it is clearly not. And then even being amused about it proofs my point further. But do keep on silencing people and then being 'amused' about it, it suits you. And then the one immediately resorting to calling stupid and dumb being a moderator says a lot as well.

'When you silence people, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he said.'

[GeorgeMTO]

It informed you why it was removed, because it was so idiotic it would've dragged down the thread the exact way you've done so now by insisting that removing uninformed nonsense is "silencing" you.

[Bertolski]

Instead of reacting to what has been said with arguments you keep resorting to attacking the person instead with 'idiotic', 'nonsense' etc. It is nothing but the projection of your own shortcomings. This will be my last post so enjoy your pedestal of power here.

[Bomba]

Off-topic: I also think we need to held moderators accountable, so George, bless you for dealing with this stuff. I only needed a quick glance at one of his last messages about avatar not giving him shards for girl to really appreciate what you're dealing with here. Thank you for cleaning up! Although, I'm a bit sad, cause long ago with your angelic patience you were be able to point at everything that was wrong in the original post and provide the correct information and with that shut this problem at the root with no chance of this drama occurring. But I guess thousands of such posts did a number on your ability to tolerate them that much. Still, you're doing a great! And thank you!

On-topic: I think the Club Champions are done in a very decent way. There's some room for improvement, but the idea is executed surprisingly well for Kinkoid. With their survey giving some clues I think they were aiming at the idea of the whole club attacking the Champion together and everyone receiving their fair share of rewards with basically every participating player receiving the same reward with those who did better getting a slightly better odds. Which really falls in line with overall logic of "We're doing this together! And everyone doing what they can". So the problems I see are the following:

1. First, the rewards for those who already got the girl are a bit low. I think the reward should have the same spread as shard range according to contribution. And the best option I think is Epic Flowers. It gives something valuable, that everyone needs and at the same time, not something that breaks the economy of the game and something that Kinkoid is actually willing to give away. And it kinda falls in line with the logic that additional shards are converted into Epic Flowers.
2. Second, looking at the results and math on it, it seems that on average you need at least 20-25 tickets to contribute your percent of the total contribution if we take the assumption that everyone needs to contribute their fair share, so basically the 1/40 of the total contribution. Which with the timer of 15 minutes adds to the 6+ hours every other day. Which I think is too much. It should either be a little more demanding daily activity(like an hour or two, but definitely not six or more) or a grand battle against boss few times per month. But as it is right now it is a grand battle against boss nearly every day, which isn't great and very time consuming. And the solution to that I think is either keep the timer and lower the difficulty a notch or keep the difficulty(or even raise it a bit) and change the timer and rewards in such way that you need to do this only few times per month. So, like everyone getting a guaranteed 20 shards per battle or something like that with 3-6 days rest. The problem is that the last one can't really be implemented, cause it would require a high level cooperation which is hard to reach.

And I think solving these problems will solve the other problems as well. I mean, everyone kinda have the same problems - the champion is too strong and you really need everyone to participate and do a lot, which is hard to do and mostly resolved with spending kobans. Those who don't, talk about faster decay and other solutions, while the problem I see is that Club Champion's difficulty doesn't correspond to the difficulty of the every day activity. I think It should be challenging, but if it's challenging as it is now, it shouldn't be something that's done nearly every day. But the rewards says otherwise and paint a picture of something that should be done daily. Which leads to another problem - players who rush it and finish it quickly or just players who're active in those battles daily left alone, while other don't do much, which was discussed too. And both of them could be easily solved if it was obvious how it supposed to be played. As a rare boss battle, which is hard to do and needs participation from everyone in the club or a daily battle which you do at your leisure. And as it is right now it's a daily boss battle, which is really exhausting and kinda goes against the logic and pace of this game overall. Which I think should be addressed.

Also, yeah, I agree that rewards should be more consistent, but the solutions for that were already provided in great number.

[DvDivXXX]

4 hours ago, Bertolski said:

Instead of reacting to what has been said with arguments you keep resorting to attacking the person instead with 'idiotic', 'nonsense' etc. It is nothing but the projection of your own shortcomings. This will be my last post so enjoy your pedestal of power here.

Cool. So I won't "silence" your pathetic attempt at giving it to the man, then. It will remain in this here thread forever as your legacy of dumb posts.

I will give you a week off to maybe brush up on your reading and communication skills, however. And I'll be very transparent about it. I'll give you your warning right here, for all to see, instead of privately on your profile to spare you the public shame.

Spouting stupid nonsense is not necessarily the same thing as being stupid. Calling you out on your stupid shit is not the same thing as calling you stupid. Being paranoid and acting hostile to moderators is not the same thing as being a victim of censorship either. Most of all, reading a post and understanding it are nowhere near the same thing, as you've certainly proven with every move you've made since you joined this discussion.

Cheers.

PS: No more derailing this thread, please.

[omnijew]

8 hours ago, Bomba said:

An excellent summary.

I feel like you've done a very good job of distilling what I was trying to get at in my original post.  Thanks for that well-reasoned and coherent summary.

[Makinen]

Personally, i don't get why the timer needs to reset every 24 hours. 

The Club Champion cycles every month. So why not do away with the reset entirely? Clubs that can finish them in a day will likely still finish it in a day, and Clubs that cannot (say, 2-3 days)... will now be able to tackle them without the heavy hitters burning out on it. And the timer can end when the Champ cycles out, because by then it wouldn't get done anyways.

After that there's still some balance issues to work out (like lowering the HP floor of the Champs to ensure it'd be doable for low level Clubs), but that's all part of the fine tuning process.

Edited March 10, 2021 by Makinen

[Honza]

On 3/9/2021 at 8:13 PM, Bomba said:

As a rare boss battle, which is hard to do and needs participation from everyone in the club or a daily battle which you do at your leisure. And as it is right now it's a daily boss battle, which is really exhausting and kinda goes against the logic and pace of this game overall. Which I think should be addressed.

This is excellent summary. To reword, the problem of the club champion is that the difficulty is set as if it should be rare activity everyone needs to prepare for ... while the rewards are set as if we should be doing it as often as possible.
There are multiple ways how to solve it, most already mentioned, but the solution needs to start with deciding which one of those two it should be.

[Karyia]

Agree with most of the "adjustments" that could be made.

 

As for the min shard "thingy", and if possible, I would maybe suggest (if there's no other way) something like this:

Reward extra shards for certain impression % until a max reward shard, for example:

i) >5% impression -> 1 shard

ii) >10% impression -> 2 shards

iii) >15% impression -> 3 shards

iv) >20% impression -> 4 shards

v) >25% impression -> 5 shards (limit).

Not sure what you think about it but over time (several challenges), this would help getting the girl and avoid those ridiculous 1 drops out of 1-30, for example, while the min shard range guys get 3  

The values, of course, are editable, just a suggestion/idea.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Karyia
added info

[Grumolch]

Lots of good ideas here. This may be a little out of place, but I'm trying to find some data on the Champ Level and Tiers.

So what I'm gathering is that the Champs level is roughly one-half of your club level/club members (or half of the average level of your members).

At least that's been close to the case in our club. If there is a better formula or more accurate, please let me know.

Assuming that is true, is that the base Tier? Using the formula above, our Champ was level 134, which was exactly half of our average member level. 

So today, after defeating the Champ at level 134, the Champ level jumped to 144. A full ten levels. Is this the norm? Also, if we pass on the next ten Champs (which would not be ideal, as that brings us close to the end of the month), would that drop his level back down to 134? Or would it decrease by a random amount of levels. I've seen it fluctuate, going up a level or down a level, but I have not seen it jump 10 levels before. No significant changes to our membership. The average level is still 268.

I've searched around a bit in General and Suggestions. What I'm trying to find is a thread that has the best data on Champ levels and how they appear to operate. But I'll be happy to get feedback here, if this is a good place for it.

Thanks.